Jaylen Brown: More than enough in Year 8.

[lovegtm]

A good portion of his step "up" during the season was having a 7'3" guy who can shoot and roll to the basket playing next to him.

But he's been great during these playoffs without KP. He benefits from teams paying a lot of attention to JT but he's been great.

Ok, now I'm back on using numbers over the eye test or narratives

Jaylen was great across a ton of lineups this year, including lots without KP or Tatum, in large samples. This had not been the case for him prior to this year, and it's a big reason I think the burden of proof is on those who want to say he didn't level up significantly.

The NBA is just plain harder to analyze than static sports like baseball, and there's always going to have to be analysis added to both metrics and observations.

 

[Auger34]

Ok, now I'm back on using numbers over the eye test or narratives

Jaylen was great across a ton of lineups this year, including lots without KP or Tatum, in large samples. This had not been the case for him prior to this year, and it's a big reason I think the burden of proof is on those who want to say he didn't level up significantly.

The NBA is just plain harder to analyze than static sports like baseball, and there's always going to have to be analysis added to both metrics and observations.

I was going to post something similar. Obviously KP helped but I thought the improvement stretched across all line ups

 

[InstaFace]

Yes, but you see, those are not official Advanced Stats with an acronym named after an NBA player, so they are not authoritative. You even have to use some judgement in determining what they mean, as opposed to just having an unbiased all-in-one number to compare against other numbers. Extremely dangerous to have laymen interpreting the scriptures in this way.

You joke, but interpreting the scriptures is really fucking hard. Someone just posting on/off numbers and minutes for pairings feels like it's halfway to valuable insight, but leaves me with more questions than answers.

Say what you will about the value metrics, they are easy to use simply (though harder to use with benefit of full context). I feel like no two analysts would look at the on/off numbers you were talking about, or look at the trend analysis you offer up yourself, and come to the same conclusions. It's a bit like macroeconomics, at times - religion masquerading as science, and no two professionals will ever agree on what the data says or how meaningful or predictive it is.

Like, how are we supposed to look at Lex's numbers and determine that Jaylen Brown did or did not improve from 22-23 to 23-24? What is the metric we're examining? Are we supposed to "Eyeball" a bunch of numbers and then call our prior-influenced hunch a considered conclusion?

 

[Deathofthebambino]

Ok, now I'm back on using numbers over the eye test or narratives

Jaylen was great across a ton of lineups this year, including lots without KP or Tatum, in large samples. This had not been the case for him prior to this year, and it's a big reason I think the burden of proof is on those who want to say he didn't level up significantly.

The NBA is just plain harder to analyze than static sports like baseball, and there's always going to have to be analysis added to both metrics and observations.

I don't think he's leveled up, but that's mainly a function of how much higher I was on JB than most of the folks around here before this season.

As I've said more times than I can count, I think JB was consistently put into positions throughout his career to carry lineups when JT wasn't on the floor, and he simply isn't that guy when he's paired with guys that can't shoot or space the floor. TL clogging the middle hurt his ability to go to the hoop, and Marcus being his kick out option worked rarely and/or JB forced a shot he didn't have to take.

The worst 5 man lineup last season (granted only 80 minutes) at -15.3 was JB/Tatum/Horford/Smart/TL.

Like I said, I don't think he's leveled up, because I believe he's been this guy for a few years now, he just needed the right people around him to make it more apparent, and is another feather in Brad's cap.

 

[Devizier]

Rather than throwing up our arms about what data tells us about Jaylen’s performance, we could try and reconcile how they might be missing things that our eyes tell us or vice-versa. The first and most obvious thing being that Jaylen is pretty clearly a tier two star who almost certainly would put up bigger numbers if he were a featured member of an offense with good supporting players (eg Brunson). And by numbers, I mean “value” numbers, traditional box score, whatever you want to discuss.

The reason why I threw out the DARKO player comps is to give an idea of what we’re trying to argue when we quibble around the details of individual player performance and how that ranks them among their peers. There are a lot of really good players in the league now. Move some of those guys on that list to new teams or situations and you’ll get different outcomes. I don’t think there’s a poster here who is arguing that context doesn’t matter.

With that said, it’s pretty easy to see, even by the most rudimentary numbers alone, that Jaylen’s turnovers have ticked down, using the Dean Oliver approximation (TO%) or any other metric you like. At the same time, he’s ending fewer possessions (USG%) and his scoring efficiency (TS%) is stable, so you have slightly fewer chances with slightly better outcomes.

I think that is reflective of a guy who fits his role better than any other time in the past. And we see that. But at the same time, there are other guys in the league making similar adjustments, and on a year-to-year basis his standing in the league is probably going to bounce around a little.

I’m just happy to be rooting for the guy, and this team in general.

 

[Montana Fan]

You joke, but interpreting the scriptures is really fucking hard. Someone just posting on/off numbers and minutes for pairings feels like it's halfway to valuable insight, but leaves me with more questions than answers.

Say what you will about the value metrics, they are easy to use simply (though harder to use with benefit of full context). I feel like no two analysts would look at the on/off numbers you were talking about, or look at the trend analysis you offer up yourself, and come to the same conclusions. It's a bit like macroeconomics, at times - religion masquerading as science, and no two professionals will ever agree on what the data says or how meaningful or predictive it is.

Like, how are we supposed to look at Lex's numbers and determine that Jaylen Brown did or did not improve from 22-23 to 23-24? What is the metric we're examining? Are we supposed to "Eyeball" a bunch of numbers and then call our prior-influenced hunch a considered conclusion?

One option is to watch the games and not give a shit what the “numbers guys” say when it’s universally acknowledged that public NBA analytics fall far short of MLB analytics. I am certain thar Brad/Mike/Joe have an advanced evaluation system, developed by Drew Cannon, that it is much more in depth than the “data” people throw around these threads when making points.

 

[slamminsammya]

One option is to watch the games and not give a shit what the “numbers guys” say when it’s universally acknowledged that public NBA analytics fall far short of MLB analytics. I am certain thar Brad/Mike/Joe have an advanced evaluation system, developed by Drew Cannon, that it is much more in depth than the “data” people throw around these threads when making points.

why the scare quotes? i’m not sure why baseball stats are relevant. we can talk about how to interpret the numbers, the strengths and weaknesses of the same, what they might be capturing that our eyes miss and vice versa. or we could make the “argument” you make here and just pretend they are meaningless.

 

[Auger34]

t’s universally acknowledged that public NBA analytics fall far short of MLB analytics. I am certain thar Brad/Mike/Joe have an advanced evaluation system, developed by Drew Cannon, that it is much more in depth than the “data” people throw around these threads when making points.

I think it's really important to acknowledge this. One of the reasons why I really like this board is that there's room for both, because NBA analytics are very imprecise and the game itself doesn't lend itself to analytics ever being the end all be all.

For me personally, I find the stats very interesting, especially some of the things that @RorschachsMask posts but I will always be a little partial to the "eye test" and the musings of people like @HomeRunBaker and @reggiecleveland, posters who have been watching ball a long time and can give you pearls of insight that you can't find on the box score.

For example, Rorschach posted some BPM numbers upthread. It was pretty fascinating to look at and it told the story of a dominant team. However, and I believe I interpreted the screenshot correctly, it said that Jaylen Brown was the 6th best player on the Celtics this playoffs. Can anyone who has watched this team take those numbers with anything other than a grain of salt? I mean, this guy used to be the most divisive player on the team and now this thread is basically just universal praise for him because of his playoff performance.

 

[slamminsammya]

I think it's really important to acknowledge this. One of the reasons why I really like this board is that there's room for both, because NBA analytics are very imprecise and the game itself doesn't lend itself to analytics ever being the end all be all.

For me personally, I find the stats very interesting, especially some of the things that @RorschachsMask posts but I will always be a little partial to the "eye test" and the musings of people like @HomeRunBaker and @reggiecleveland, posters who have been watching ball a long time and can give you pearls of insight that you can't find on the box score.

For example, Rorschach posted some BPM numbers upthread. It was pretty fascinating to look at and it told the story of a dominant team. However, and I believe I interpreted the screenshot correctly, it said that Jaylen Brown was the 6th best player on the Celtics this playoffs. Can anyone who has watched this team take those numbers with anything other than a grain of salt? I mean, this guy used to be the most divisive player on the team and now this thread is basically just universal praise for him because of his playoff performance.

I think the creator of that statistic (ben taylor) would recommend big grains of salt.

 

[InstaFace]

For example, Rorschach posted some BPM numbers upthread. It was pretty fascinating to look at and it told the story of a dominant team. However, and I believe I interpreted the screenshot correctly, it said that Jaylen Brown was the 6th best player on the Celtics this playoffs. Can anyone who has watched this team take those numbers with anything other than a grain of salt? I mean, this guy used to be the most divisive player on the team and now this thread is basically just universal praise for him because of his playoff performance.

Yes, the gulf between what the stat systems say about Jaylen Brown, and what knowledgeable close observers say about Jaylen Brown, is a very interesting point on which to study in what ways these systems fail to capture important context - and perhaps, also ways in which our "eye test" is failing to spot what an unbiased stats system is able to see.

I don't think even the most stat-headed folks around here though would argue that we should give basketball stats the same deference and gravitas that we give baseball stats. Certainly I wouldn't, and I'm sure Slamminsammya would agree too, among others. But that's a strawman. "they're not as good as baseball stats!" does not equate to "they have no value and you should stop mentioning them!", which is pretty much what Montana posted and you +1'd here.

 

[Auger34]

I don't think even the most stat-headed folks around here though would argue that we should give basketball stats the same deference and gravitas that we give baseball stats. Certainly I wouldn't, and I'm sure Slamminsammya would agree too, among others. But that's a strawman. "they're not as good as baseball stats!" does not equate to "they have no value and you should stop mentioning them!", which is pretty much what Montana posted and you +1'd here.

Did you read my post? If you did, I would find it hard to believe you think I +1'd the they have no value thing. I purposely deleted that portion of Montana's post and just wanted to focus on the baseball portion.

If it wasn't clear, my position was just that they're not as good as baseball stats and shouldn't be treated as gospel.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Advanced stats are very useful, as a tool for analyzing a player, and what their strengths and weaknesses are.

I see people use it as a player ranking system, and it’s just not that. Impact is about so much more than what people think.

 

[reggiecleveland]

As more and more stats became available and available quickly they became more helpful for coaches. Frequently stats will help you fix a hole in your perceptions based on your bias or habits. The end of the book Moneyball has Billy Beane saying scouting was still critical which made the depiction of scouts in the movie upsetting for many at the A's. The example was given that stats lead the scouts to go look at guys they wouldn't have otherwise and most of the time the A's ended up not interested.

I will use a controversial example. People who watched the Yankees everyday had huge problems with stats saying Jeter was the worst shortstop ever. But, if anonymous source reports can be believed, the Yankees took it seriously, and even tried to ask the selfess one to change positions because other stats pointed to him being an even more valuable hitter than believed. Tghis lead to one of my favorite Onion headlines.



So a stat having Brown ranked to low as a coach, would have me rewatch games, or particular plays. If for example, turnovers were the big reason his stat rating was so low I would look at those. Were the TOs excusable? Bad luck? Were they the result of him playing the way you want, being aggressive? Are they correctable or things you are willing to live with.

 

[lovegtm]

You joke, but interpreting the scriptures is really fucking hard. Someone just posting on/off numbers and minutes for pairings feels like it's halfway to valuable insight, but leaves me with more questions than answers.

Say what you will about the value metrics, they are easy to use simply (though harder to use with benefit of full context). I feel like no two analysts would look at the on/off numbers you were talking about, or look at the trend analysis you offer up yourself, and come to the same conclusions. It's a bit like macroeconomics, at times - religion masquerading as science, and no two professionals will ever agree on what the data says or how meaningful or predictive it is.

Like, how are we supposed to look at Lex's numbers and determine that Jaylen Brown did or did not improve from 22-23 to 23-24? What is the metric we're examining? Are we supposed to "Eyeball" a bunch of numbers and then call our prior-influenced hunch a considered conclusion?

What you're getting at, and I agree, is that basketball is extremely hard to get evaluation agreement on, because it's turtles all the way down. You can never really bottom out on an objective standard: analysis is being applied at all levels, by necessity.

The best you can probably do is get some sort of fuzzy consensus between a few people (well under the Dunbar Number) as to what they're analyzing and how they're doing so. I think we sort of have that between sets of people here, which is why the conversations are more productive than you'd expect, given the challenge of applying analysis at all times.

As @RorschachsMask suggests, those analytical consensuses tend to collapse when doing linear rankings of players, because it's an inherently weird exercise that is impedance-mismatched to impact analysis.

 

[Jimbodandy]

Ok, now I'm back on using numbers over the eye test or narratives

Jaylen was great across a ton of lineups this year, including lots without KP or Tatum, in large samples. This had not been the case for him prior to this year, and it's a big reason I think the burden of proof is on those who want to say he didn't level up significantly.

The NBA is just plain harder to analyze than static sports like baseball, and there's always going to have to be analysis added to both metrics and observations.

The on/off numbers are materially different. The question is how much of that is Jaylen's improvement and how much is Joe being able to put better guys around him that fit. His assist rate is basically identical to last year, while his turnovers have decreased materially. Honestly, I think that a lot of his improvement has been on the defensive end.

snip...Like I said, I don't think he's leveled up, because I believe he's been this guy for a few years now, he just needed the right people around him to make it more apparent, and is another feather in Brad's cap.

I think that a lot of it is the improvement in teammates. Guys who finish better, guys who have some gravity (so he's not being constantly trapped and hedged), more importantly guys who can facilitate. His relationship with KP alone was so fruitful, in having a teammate who he could easily find and who would find him. It's not as much those guys making him better as him having the ball and chain removed from his ankle.

 

[RorschachsMask]

I think Jaylen clearly improved some on the fringes, and that’s usually where mid career jumps happen, and it’s usually related to reading the game.

He’s still not a guy to break down a loaded up defense, but where he’s improved most is his drive and kick game. In these playoffs, that’s all they are asking him to do. They have told him to go out there and score, but just make the right pass if he draws a second defender. There’s a trust factor involved too, because in Jaylen’s mind, he likely thinks he’s more likely to hit a shot than the guy he’s passing to.

That pass to White was the perfect encapsulation of what Jaylen needs to do, and what he has been doing more than in the past. Assist numbers and rate can be misleading, when it comes to playmaking. I’ll take him averaging 2-3 assists a game on the right play, over 4 from just passing the ball around the perimeter or as a last resort.

 

[Montana Fan]

I think it's really important to acknowledge this. One of the reasons why I really like this board is that there's room for both, because NBA analytics are very imprecise and the game itself doesn't lend itself to analytics ever being the end all be all.

For me personally, I find the stats very interesting, especially some of the things that @RorschachsMask posts but I will always be a little partial to the

I agree that the stats alongside evaluation and some of our more knowledgeable posters observations help paint a more complete picture. My irk is when people make their arguments almost solely based on DARKO (which I like) or LEBRON, etc.

Jaylen’s improved every year and still has a higher plane he can get on. That’s purely observational based on seeing 90% of the games since he’s been drafted. I’m certain that analytics experts like Drew Cannon, Brad and now Joe have used data to coach him and game plan his improvement plan each offseason. Nice thing about a smart guy like Jaylen, seems like he embraces and executes it.

 

[lovegtm]

I think Jaylen clearly improved some on the fringes, and that’s usually where mid career jumps happen, and it’s usually related to reading the game.

He’s still not a guy to break down a loaded up defense, but where he’s improved most is his drive and kick game. In these playoffs, that’s all they are asking him to do. They have told him to go out there and score, but just make the right pass if he draws a second defender. There’s a trust factor involved too, because in Jaylen’s mind, he likely thinks he’s more likely to hit a shot than the guy he’s passing to.

That pass to White was the perfect encapsulation of what Jaylen needs to do, and what he has been doing more than in the past. Assist numbers and rate can be misleading, when it comes to playmaking. I’ll take him averaging 2-3 assists a game on the right play, over 4 from just passing the ball around the perimeter or as a last resort.

We think of Jaylen as a play-finisher, but he's often better as a play-starter in this particular offense.

Oversimplified slightly, the Celtics' two preferred ways to initiate plays are screening/ghosting to force confusion or iso/simple PnR to force decisions.

Jaylen is good at the latter, because he's very threatening to score and thus can force decisions, but the reads out of that are simpler and more static, so he can drill them heavily. (Which we're now learning he does obsessively before games.) The ball then ends up often with other guys who play well out of those advantages.

In contrast, White/Jrue/Tatum are all better as screeners and second-side players, because they make better decisions in randomness and when the defense is in rotation. Jaylen is not at all bad at that, and improving, but we're talking about maximizing margins here.

(Tatum is also great at initiating, forcing decisions, and making static reads, because he's an all-around star. However, even when he's on the floor, there's value in not just doing that every time, and there are matchups in which Jaylen is more threatening.)

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

The worst 5 man lineup last season (granted only 80 minutes) at -15.3 was JB/Tatum/Horford/Smart/TL.

Not that it matters but because I was interested, I looked up the 2021-22 numbers for that lineup. +218 in 443 minutes with an ORtg of 118.8 and a DRtg of 94.2.

In 2022-23, that lineup had an ORtg of 106.7 and a DRtg of 119.0.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the biggest difference between the two years was the fact that both Marcus and TL went from all-NBA-level defensive players to mere mortals, which also meant that the Cs were taking the ball of the basket a lot and not getting into transition.

Man, a healthy TL was so much fun to watch; I hope he gets there again.

 

[Jimbodandy]

We think of Jaylen as a play-finisher, but he's often better as a play-starter in this particular offense.

Oversimplified slightly, the Celtics' two preferred ways to initiate plays are screening/ghosting to force confusion or iso/simple PnR to force decisions.

Jaylen is good at the latter, because he's very threatening to score and thus can force decisions, but the reads out of that are simpler and more static, so he can drill them heavily. (Which we're now learning he does obsessively before games.) The ball then ends up often with other guys who play well out of those advantages.

In contrast, White/Jrue/Tatum are all better as screeners and second-side players, because they make better decisions in randomness and when the defense is in rotation. Jaylen is not at all bad at that, and improving, but we're talking about maximizing margins here.

(Tatum is also great at initiating, forcing decisions, and making static reads, because he's an all-around star. However, even when he's on the floor, there's value in not just doing that every time, and there are matchups in which Jaylen is more threatening.)

Great post.

Hadn't really thought about this much yet, but Jaylen has his own "moving gravity" that other guys don't all have. He's drawing attention without the ball because people are so worried about him getting it while already going downhill. Lots of guys have "don't leave this guy open from three" gravity. Not as many have "don't leave this guy alone on the move" gravity. Pretty much all of JH/JT/JB/DW have that ability to read and react, make the right pass, finish on their own. But JB is so damn explosive.

 

[Auger34]

We think of Jaylen as a play-finisher, but he's often better as a play-starter in this particular offense.

Oversimplified slightly, the Celtics' two preferred ways to initiate plays are screening/ghosting to force confusion or iso/simple PnR to force decisions.

Jaylen is good at the latter, because he's very threatening to score and thus can force decisions, but the reads out of that are simpler and more static, so he can drill them heavily. (Which we're now learning he does obsessively before games.) The ball then ends up often with other guys who play well out of those advantages.

In contrast, White/Jrue/Tatum are all better as screeners and second-side players, because they make better decisions in randomness and when the defense is in rotation. Jaylen is not at all bad at that, and improving, but we're talking about maximizing margins here.

(Tatum is also great at initiating, forcing decisions, and making static reads, because he's an all-around star. However, even when he's on the floor, there's value in not just doing that every time, and there are matchups in which Jaylen is more threatening.)

Great post. Answers the questions that so many have had about why Jaylen brings the ball up so often

 

[lovegtm]

Great post. Answers the questions that so many have had about why Jaylen brings the ball up so often

I'll probably revise what I think as more stuff happens in the Finals, but this is just me reasoning backwards from "what are the basic ways the Celtics try to break down defenses?", "who is best to kick that chain of events off?" and "who is best to exploit once the madness has started?"

 

[InstaFace]

A notable fan of Jaylen's work:

View: https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1795298145917960535

 

[lovegtm]

A notable fan of Jaylen's work:

View: https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1795298145917960535

Yeah, LeBron has often said Jaylen is underrated.

 

[snowmanny]

It occurred to me today that Brown would have made the All Eastern Conference team, if there was such a thing...(Giannis, Tatum, Brunson, Halliburton, Jaylen)..

 

[ALiveH]

Jaylen's always reminded me of a poor man's LeBron (still an all star level player because Lebron is that great). They have similar body type and combination of strength, size, thickness and explosiveness. But, Lebron has had slightly more of all of the above, plus better court vision / passing and other basketball skills.

 

[CaptainLaddie]

Simmons made a good point on his pod with Russillo the other day: how many athletes -- in any sport -- have got a max contract (or a huge one) and then seriously leveled up their game? It's like.. Jaylen Brown.... and.....? I struggle off the top of my head to think of another. Jaylen -- who is my favorite current Celtic -- got shit on for getting the biggest contract in NBA history and only got better. He earned that max contract. It's awesome. He put the work in.

 

[Euclis20]

Simmons made a good point on his pod with Russillo the other day: how many athletes -- in any sport -- have got a max contract (or a huge one) and then seriously leveled up their game? It's like.. Jaylen Brown.... and.....? I struggle off the top of my head to think of another. Jaylen -- who is my favorite current Celtic -- got shit on for getting the biggest contract in NBA history and only got better. He earned that max contract. It's awesome. He put the work in.

The money isn't in the same universe, but in 2012 he won 6th MOY, then was traded to Houston and signed a max extension. He went from bench player to perennial MVP candidate.

 

[BigSoxFan]

Simmons made a good point on his pod with Russillo the other day: how many athletes -- in any sport -- have got a max contract (or a huge one) and then seriously leveled up their game? It's like.. Jaylen Brown.... and.....? I struggle off the top of my head to think of another. Jaylen -- who is my favorite current Celtic -- got shit on for getting the biggest contract in NBA history and only got better. He earned that max contract. It's awesome. He put the work in.

I’d add Shai Gilgeous-Alexander to that list. The guy signed his extension in Aug 2021 and a year after that he was basically putting himself into MVP conversations.

 

[slamminsammya]

Embiid got quite a bit better since he signed his first max in 2018.

 

[Euclis20]

Plenty of guys took a big jump forward after signing their first (post-rookie) max, I'm curious how many guys made a leap after signing a max deal (or close to it) for their 3rd contract. And as good as he's played, I'm not sure if what he's done counts as seriously leveling up his game. I think he's gotten better, but I don't know if it counts as a major step up from last year, when he was a deserving all-NBA guy.

 

[Eric Fernsten's Disco Mustache]

Jaylen's always reminded me of a poor man's LeBron... They have similar body type and combination of strength, size, thickness and explosiveness... But, Lebron has had slightly more of all of the above, plus better court vision / passing and other basketball skills.

Agreed on the physique, although it's worth flagging that LeBron has 3-4" of height/length on Jaylen without giving up anything in quickness and agility. And the bolded part above feels like a bit of an understatement. Coming into the league LeBron's superpower was his anticipation/court vision/passing. Over Jaylen's career that's always been... ...a developmental opportunity


And then, just because this post gives me an excuse to post this Bernie Mac gem


View: https://youtu.be/bT4tAltJ6oc?si=CGbWewO5dWujIte2



Happy Wednesday

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

Simmons made a good point on his pod with Russillo the other day: how many athletes -- in any sport -- have got a max contract (or a huge one) and then seriously leveled up their game? It's like.. Jaylen Brown.... and.....? I struggle off the top of my head to think of another. Jaylen -- who is my favorite current Celtic -- got shit on for getting the biggest contract in NBA history and only got better. He earned that max contract. It's awesome. He put the work in.

Pedro?

 

[Auger34]

The money isn't in the same universe, but in 2012 he won 6th MOY, then was traded to Houston and signed a max extension. He went from bench player to perennial MVP candidate.

A lot of that is because he went to a new team and became the clear primary option.

It's harder to find someone who got a max contract with the same team, in basically the same role that became better (a good deal of that is because it's not a very long list but still)

 

[wade boggs chicken dinner]

Simmons made a good point on his pod with Russillo the other day: how many athletes -- in any sport -- have got a max contract (or a huge one) and then seriously leveled up their game? It's like.. Jaylen Brown.... and.....? I struggle off the top of my head to think of another. Jaylen -- who is my favorite current Celtic -- got shit on for getting the biggest contract in NBA history and only got better. He earned that max contract. It's awesome. He put the work in.

There's only been 9 guys in the NBA to get a veteran's supermax I believe (here's the list: NBA supermax contracts: Players who have signed them in league history (usatoday.com) ).

One could say that Curry leveled up after signing his supermax in 2017, though he was already great. Same for Jokic, who won a title after signing his supermax deal.

In football, Drew Brees fit your bill?

 

[TripleOT]

A notable fan of Jaylen's work:

View: https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1795298145917960535

View: https://youtu.be/YJLg9Lor-rI?si=MWi_8vqMfoyoWTfQ

 

[Deathofthebambino]

I am bumping this thread because Jaylen Brown deserves to have this thread bumped.

 

[TomRicardo]

Jaylen Brown is a top 15 player in the NBA. He was the best player on the floor tonight.

 

[JCizzle]

I am bumping this thread because Jaylen Brown deserves to have this thread bumped.

I think KP changed the game, but JB was a close second. He was unbelievable on both ends. That massive dunk was JB at his best - picking up the team in a raw, emotional way. Tatum is a better player, but he simply doesn't bring those moments like JB does.

 

[Reverend]

I am bumping this thread because Jaylen Brown deserves to have this thread bumped.

View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1798885965210976532

View: https://twitter.com/celtics_junkies/status/1798905709582856540

View: https://twitter.com/kevinoconnornba/status/1798901693066957179

A suite of three different but provocative tales of Jaylen.

 

[bigq]

22 points on 12 shots plus 6 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals and 3 blocks works for me.

 

[Time to Mo Vaughn]

22 points on 12 shots plus 6 boards, 2 assists, 3 steals and 3 blocks works for me.

Most importantly: only 2 turnovers.

 

[ManicCompression]

Amazing game, love how he’s playing to his strengths (continuation of his progress all year)… just hit your free throws dude!!

 

[InstaFace]

Some of those steals were incredible. Picking Luka's pocket in the middle of the open court. The spirit of Marcus Smart lives on in this team.

Jaylen's point of attack D has always been good, even if tonight was a level higher than usual. His kryptonite has always been (A) falling asleep on D when off the ball (losing a step on his guy), and (B) dribbling into traffic on no-hoper plays and getting it picked. When he fixes both of those, as he did tonight, he's an all-NBA player and can be a game-wrecker.

 

[Reverend]

Some of those steals were incredible. Picking Luka's pocket in the middle of the open court. The spirit of Marcus Smart lives on in this team.

Jaylen's point of attack D has always been good, even if tonight was a level higher than usual. His kryptonite has always been (A) falling asleep on D when off the ball (losing a step on his guy), and (B) dribbling into traffic on no-hoper plays and getting it picked. When he fixes both of those, as he did tonight, he's an all-NBA player and can be a game-wrecker.

View: https://twitter.com/nbatv/status/1798889373821546922
View: https://twitter.com/espn/status/1798878947637391697

 

[Auger34]

I’ve been wrong plenty in life. I’ve been wrong plenty on this very board.

I am really happy that I’ve been proven right about Jaylen Brown. As a senior leadership member of the JB fan club (along with @Deathofthebambino and @Jimbodandy) I planted my flag on him being really good. Got in plenty of arguments with posters here about his value.

It’s a testament to how good he is that this thread is almost universally positive now, because there were a handful of posters here who loved to shit on him no matter what.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a top 20 player. Yes, he was the best player on the floor tonight. Yes, hes better than Domantas Sabonis

 

[Reverend]

I’ve been wrong plenty in life. I’ve been wrong plenty on this very board.

I am really happy that I’ve been proven right about Jaylen Brown. As a senior leadership member of the JB fan club (along with @Deathofthebambino and @Jimbodandy) I planted my flag on him being really good. Got in plenty of arguments with posters here about his value.

It’s a testament to how good he is that this thread is almost universally positive now, because there were a handful of posters here who loved to shit on him no matter what.

Yes, Jaylen Brown is a top 20 player. Yes, he was the best player on the floor tonight. Yes, hes better than Domantas Sabonis

I’ve always loved Brown, but he used to do one of the single most annoying things a player on your team could do: Sometimes, he couldn’t think of anything better to do, so he just dribbled into traffic and turned the ball over.

For all his greatness, that was super annoying. Watching Jaylen without periodically having it pop into my mind, “Is he gonna do that annoying thing again?” is everything I had hoped it would be.

 

[RorschachsMask]

Just an excellent game tonight, on both ends obviously.

 

[Reverend]

Just an excellent game tonight, on both ends obviously.

View: https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1798841218040045796

 

[lovegtm]

3 more games to win the title he needs to finally equal Trevor Ariza's ring total.