I love the smell of burning oil in the morning - The Formula 1 2022 season

swiftaw

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Ferrari need to fire their entire strategy team and start over, two absolutely terrible races in a row.
 

SocrManiac

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I know they can’t work on the car during the break. Can they turn over members of the team and integrate them? I’m guessing not.
 

mikeot

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Scuderia clown show nonwithstanding, big props to Max and RB coming from shitty pole positions for all the marbles.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Putting Charles onto the hard tire, especially after it was clear from the Alpines that the hard tires had no grip in those conditions, might be the most baffling strategy blunder yet. In other instances you could at least kind of see what Ferrari was thinking but this one is completely inexplicable.

The championship race is over - now the battle to watch is Mercedes vs Ferrari for second place.
 

SocrManiac

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Putting Charles onto the hard tire, especially after it was clear from the Alpines that the hard tires had no grip in those conditions, might be the most baffling strategy blunder yet. In other instances you could at least kind of see what Ferrari was thinking but this one is completely inexplicable.

The championship race is over - now the battle to watch is Mercedes vs Ferrari for second place.
Ferrari look like they’re in a death spiral. They have a bad mix of a horrific strategy team, questionable reliability, a clearly favored driver that makes unforced errors on a regular basis, and a driver that has too much passion and competitiveness to be counted on in a support role. Unless something massive changes over the break, Mercedes have already passed them
In all but the points.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Leclerc isn’t clearly favored, if anything, its the opposite!

as far as the strategy is concerned, I do feel they get more shit than they deserve. Today for example, the whole discussion about the hards obscures the fact they weren’t doing well on the sorts either.Having said that, with the risk of rain in the beginning and Russel starting on sorts, perhaps they should have started on sorts as well. Their medium stints should probably have been longer as well.

last but not least, hat pole position Russell won by 4 hundreds of the second hurt hem a ton S well, since if they had 1-2, they could have built a longer lead.

regardless,, iam not prone to psychological explanations but atthis point, everyone, fans, team, drivers expects the worst and that’s not a good mental place to be in when you re competing.
 

mattquinley

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as far as the strategy is concerned, I do feel they get more shit than they deserve. Today for example, the whole discussion about the hards obscures the fact they weren’t doing well on the sorts either.
Agreed - this weekend Ferrari was sort of boxed into a corner on tire strategy. Mercedes started Russell on the soft tire because they wanted him to get a good jump on the start and they have trouble building tire temperature on the harder compounds. Ferrari has no such problem this season, so the medium was a better choice for them. I doubt they figured they could finish the race running medium-soft-medium, but in hindsight the cooler temperature might have allowed it. Obviously several other cars were able to pull that off. Also I could be wrong here, but I believe Merc had new softs for Hamilton, while Ferrari only had used sets left for Leclerc. Ultimately it seems the cooler temperatures were Ferrari's undoing as they couldn't get the hard tires to work.
 

tmracht

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I get what you're saying I do, but cutting Leclerc's stint short on the mediums on that second stint really hurt. Boxed into or not, your softs shouldn't be your second longest stint by just a hair.

Lec: 21 laps Med, 18 laps medium, 15 laps hard, 19 laps soft.

First stint under heavy load fine cut the mediums at 21, but that middle stint ending at 18 is brutal. Compare to Lewis who managed 19M - 32M! - 21S.

Part of the hate Ferrari gets is not reading the room especially as they are being smacked in the face by live data. By lap 40 you had a great idea how Alpine was doing on Hards.

Alonso from lap 23 to lap 39 when Leclerc pitted 86s to 85s.
Where Leclerc on the Mediums was sitting between 83 and 84s.
Hamilton on the Mediums was sitting around 83-84 second well into the stint when they started falling off at lap 48.

This wasn't a minor delta it was near on 2-3s delta to the hards, but to even gets worse when you see how Hamilton was able to then bring the times wayyyy down on softs to sub 82s at the end, while Alonso on the hards was still sitting on 84-85 seconds on old hards with low fuel. This isn't to say they had optimal strategy, or didn't get screwed by George's great lap, but if Max can go P10->P1 and Hamilton P7->P2, then that says even more about how Ferrari bottled it.
 

Average Reds

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The Ferrari tire fuck up was so obvious that the announcers flagged it in real time the second the hards went on. The fact that Leclerc eventually did more laps on the soft tires than he did on the hards is pretty strong evidence that the team realized the magnitude of their error.
 

swiftaw

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Strange things happening at Alpine. Not only did Alonso bolt to Aston Martin when Alpine were in the process of trying to renew his contract (he wanted at least 2 years, they were only willing to guarantee one), but then this morning they announced Oscar Piastri as his replacement and then this afternoon he announced he would not be driving for Alpine next season (rumor is he's going to McClaren)
 

Nick Kaufman

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The best part is that Alpine didn't want to give Alonso two years because they didn't want to lose Piastri. Apparently, he could bolt next year if Alpine didn't offer him a seat, so that's why Alpine wouldn't badge on Alonso.

So now Piastri doesn't want to get with the program. Is Ricciardo going to Williams? Or Alpine?

Either way. Big egg on Otmar's face.
 

tmracht

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Otmar just keeps taking L(pine)s. Saying Nando was in Greece unable to be reached, while he's at his karting track. It's definitely prime silly season, but Alpine really not covering themselves in glory so far. If they have alienated Piastri completely to the point he bolted and they have to settle for Slow Mode Danny Ric yikes.
 

tmracht

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mikeot

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Season break over, in case you guys hadn't noticed. 1-2 finish for Red Bull at Spa; Charles Leclerc still the most snakebitten guy in auto racing.
 

rbeaud

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Season break over, in case you guys hadn't noticed. 1-2 finish for Red Bull at Spa; Charles Leclerc still the most snakebitten guy in auto racing.
Snakebit maybe because the engines are unreliable? I would associate being snakebitten more with, say, Stroll and Max losing tires at Baku because Pirelli honked up the simulations (I really suspect the race was on the verge of a catastrophe if things were just a bit worse). LeClerc is snakebit in the sense that Ferrari Analysts make the worst possible choice at every turn. The decisions look bad at the moment and worsen with every minute of hindsight.
 

rbeaud

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With the knowledge of this forum, I wonder if folks can recommend a race to attend? I read an Autoweek article that referenced a complation of costs which provides some insight on which to avoid on a budget. My newly minted F1 fanatic wife is thinking an International Race, likely outside the America’s. Reasonably easy access to the course via public transportation seems like a good minimum? For those that have attended a race, is a Jumbotron necessary for enjoyment of the race?

In passing, we have mentioned to each other Barcelona, Suzuka, Baku, and Zandvoort. The leading contender so far seems to be Barcelona.
 

SocrManiac

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The decisions look bad at the moment and worsen with every minute of hindsight.
Whether information overload or just plain incompetence, this is the key. Ferrari make objectively wrong calls on such a regular basis that it’s staggering they haven’t blown up the strategy team.
 

cgori

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With the knowledge of this forum, I wonder if folks can recommend a race to attend? I read an Autoweek article that referenced a complation of costs which provides some insight on which to avoid on a budget. My newly minted F1 fanatic wife is thinking an International Race, likely outside the America’s. Reasonably easy access to the course via public transportation seems like a good minimum? For those that have attended a race, is a Jumbotron necessary for enjoyment of the race?

In passing, we have mentioned to each other Barcelona, Suzuka, Baku, and Zandvoort. The leading contender so far seems to be Barcelona.
I've been to the Barcelona track (spent 2 days driving it, actually) - it's pretty far from the city and I don't think there's any public transit option. The driving event I did took us on shuttle buses from the city and I feel like it was a 45 minute drive each morning (without any race traffic!). Barcelona is an amazing city, the race there is often boring though - no good overtakes, track is "too familiar" for the drivers/teams because it's the pre-season test track.

Suzuka has been on my bucket list as I have been to Japan a ton of times for work, just never got the timing of a work trip to coincide. Japan is awesome to visit, though when I looked into it, accessing the track wasn't the easiest. There are trains that get you pretty close, but you'd probably have to stay in Nagoya to make it work. (Nothing wrong with Nagoya, but there's lot of places I'd rather be.) Costs will be sort of high, I expect. By next year I would hope the tourist visa situation into Japan will be resolved, but right now it's nearly impossible to visit. If they have the race at the "normal" time in the calendar it can be wet/rainy.

Baku is the one I am trying to drum up interest from my F1-watching/attending friends to go to because I think it's a really good race/track. Flight logistics of getting there look semi-painful (it's 20+ hours of air travel from SF to reach Baku), but once you are there I think it's pretty reasonable since the track is in the city. Costs looked good from when I looked into it, because the baseline is pretty cheap, so even marked way up it's not terrible.

Zandvoort I have no idea, it's newer as a race than the last time I looked at all of them.

As a first race with "international" feel, I'd consider Montreal. And since you've never been to a race, Austin is a good one to get your feet wet, even if not international. Costs are much more reasonable at both. Austin you'll have to have a car but they have tons of parking and/or you can Uber to the track on race day. Austin does jack up the price of hotels immensely for GP weekend - the last time I went we got an airbnb, but I have stayed in hotels in previous years. My recollection is that they had a 3-night minimum stay.

Singapore would be an absolute spectacle. But not cheap, and maybe not the greatest race because of difficulty passing. Also insanely hot/humid.

For most tracks, you'll want to be able to see a Jumbotron, yes. For some races, if you get very good tickets you can see two passing zones and maybe not miss much, but there will always be some part of the track that is unseen to you. (Example: at Austin you have to either be at turn 12 where you can see the back straight + infield all the way to turn 18/19, or turn 1-2 area to see the main straight + start of the esses, since turn 1 + 12 are the two primary passing zones. You will not be able to see both. If you sit in the turn 12 grandstand there is a jumbotron on the infield, and I think there is one at turn 1 too.)
 

reggiecleveland

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tmracht

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At this point they should just go to fan voting strategy. Granted Max's tear away really didn't help, it was still a bad showing from Ferrari.
 

SocrManiac

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The fact this thread hasn’t been topped recently speaks to how uncompetitive this season now is. At least Latifi is going to become too much of an embarrassment to continue next year.
 

rbeaud

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The fact this thread hasn’t been topped recently speaks to how uncompetitive this season now is. At least Latifi is going to become too much of an embarrassment to continue next year.
To me, it seems Williams would be better off sitting Latifi immediately. He can’t/won’t bring anything more to the table and eight races would season DV.
 

cgori

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The fact this thread hasn’t been topped recently speaks to how uncompetitive this season now is. At least Latifi is going to become too much of an embarrassment to continue next year.
I'm actually really interested in the Ferrari-Mercedes / McLaren-Renault constructor battles, but yea, the driver championship has felt inevitable for a good while now.
 

Bongorific

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Sorry to bring up the end of 2021 again….

I watched the end of the latest Drive to Survive season and I’m no less confused now than I was watching the final race in real time. I don’t follow 1) what should have been done under the rules, and 2) the best way to handle the situation irrespective of the rules.

As a relatively new fan, the safety car rules seem pretty dumb. It’s really dumb when a race ends under a safety car or early. But even during a race, I don’t understand why a safety car allows cars to close gaps so long as they stay in proper order. It’s the equivalent of NBA teams getting to advance the ball to half court rather than under the hoop after a timeout which is also one of the dumbest rules in sports.

Then there was discussion of “unlapping” cars. I guess I understand the theory. If you get the lapped cars out of the way, the cars actually competing are in the proper order with less congestion in their way. But similar to freely closing gaps, cars are given the benefit of not needing to deal with and overtake lapped cars in front of them.

So this all seems like dumb rule on top of dumb rule. But where they really lost me was the argument over only letting the 5 cars between Max and Lewis unlap. It wouldn’t have mattered if they let only those 5 or all the lapped cars unlap. Either way, it would have put Max right next to Lewis so long as he stayed an inch behind. The show portrayed that the issue was which cars were unlapping, rather than whether to let cars unlap or not, and I don’t see the material difference.
 

cshea

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I could be wrong, new to the sport as well, but I believe the issue was that if they unlapped everyone it would've taken the final lap to do so and thus they never would've restarted the race. It would've ended under safety car with Lewis winning.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Sorry to bring up the end of 2021 again….

I watched the end of the latest Drive to Survive season and I’m no less confused now than I was watching the final race in real time. I don’t follow 1) what should have been done under the rules, and 2) the best way to handle the situation irrespective of the rules.

As a relatively new fan, the safety car rules seem pretty dumb. It’s really dumb when a race ends under a safety car or early. But even during a race, I don’t understand why a safety car allows cars to close gaps so long as they stay in proper order. It’s the equivalent of NBA teams getting to advance the ball to half court rather than under the hoop after a timeout which is also one of the dumbest rules in sports.

Then there was discussion of “unlapping” cars. I guess I understand the theory. If you get the lapped cars out of the way, the cars actually competing are in the proper order with less congestion in their way. But similar to freely closing gaps, cars are given the benefit of not needing to deal with and overtake lapped cars in front of them.

So this all seems like dumb rule on top of dumb rule. But where they really lost me was the argument over only letting the 5 cars between Max and Lewis unlap. It wouldn’t have mattered if they let only those 5 or all the lapped cars unlap. Either way, it would have put Max right next to Lewis so long as he stayed an inch behind. The show portrayed that the issue was which cars were unlapping, rather than whether to let cars unlap or not, and I don’t see the material difference.
Cars getting to bunch up under a caution flag is something that happens in all forms of racing. It has to happen this way for safety reasons - the entire idea behind a safety car is to get the field to much up so that the marshalls/track workers have a prolonged period when no cars are in the area of the track where the accident was so they can pick up debris, clear a crashed car, etc. (For less serious accidents, F1 uses the “virtual” safety car rule, which is essentially what you are proposing - the cars have to slow down but don’t bunch up in the same way.)

Putting aside the safety issues, though, bunching up the field is generally considered a “good” thing by the powers that be in motor sport because it makes things more exciting. In NASCAR now they actually do this 2 times a race or something even if there is no accident, just to increase the drama. It is certainly “unfair” in some sense, but no more so than if, say, a driver gets taken out by another driver through no fault of his own, which also routinely happens. The fact that “shit happens” during a race is, IMO, one of the reasons it’s so enjoyable.

As for last year’s finale, the issue was that if all the lapped cars were allowed to unlap themselves, it probably would have eaten up the whole remaining time and the race would have ended under safety car (lapped cars are generally not allowed to unlap until the incident has been cleared, for the reasons noted above). Masi could have let NO lapped cars unlap, which would have allowed a final lap of racing but basically eliminated a chance of Max overtaking Lewis. Or, he could have allowed ALL lapped cars to unlap, which would likely have resulted in the race ending under safety car. Instead, he fudged the rules to get the best of both worlds- you can kind of see where he was coming from, but you can’t really have a race director just changing rules on the fly to improve entertainment value.

That said, you are not wrong that ending a race under safety car is kinda lame and there have been many calls to think about rule changes to fix this. The problem is that F1 cars don’t refuel during the race and are fueled to complete exactly the number of laps the race has, meaning you can’t just add on laps to the end of the race because everyone would run out of fuel. You could throw a red flag and have everyone park in the pits and restart, but that creates its own set of issues and would be “unfair” in its own right.
 

SocrManiac

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Once the decision was made to let the cars unlap themselves, all of them must do so. They couldn't all have made it before the end of the race. The objective error in rule application was to only allow the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap. That shouldn't have happened.
 

Bongorific

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Cars getting to bunch up under a caution flag is something that happens in all forms of racing. It has to happen this way for safety reasons - the entire idea behind a safety car is to get the field to much up so that the marshalls/track workers have a prolonged period when no cars are in the area of the track where the accident was so they can pick up debris, clear a crashed car, etc. (For less serious accidents, F1 uses the “virtual” safety car rule, which is essentially what you are proposing - the cars have to slow down but don’t bunch up in the same way.)

Putting aside the safety issues, though, bunching up the field is generally considered a “good” thing by the powers that be in motor sport because it makes things more exciting. In NASCAR now they actually do this 2 times a race or something even if there is no accident, just to increase the drama. It is certainly “unfair” in some sense, but no more so than if, say, a driver gets taken out by another driver through no fault of his own, which also routinely happens. The fact that “shit happens” during a race is, IMO, one of the reasons it’s so enjoyable.

As for last year’s finale, the issue was that if all the lapped cars were allowed to unlap themselves, it probably would have eaten up the whole remaining time and the race would have ended under safety car (lapped cars are generally not allowed to unlap until the incident has been cleared, for the reasons noted above). Masi could have let NO lapped cars unlap, which would have allowed a final lap of racing but basically eliminated a chance of Max overtaking Lewis. Or, he could have allowed ALL lapped cars to unlap, which would likely have resulted in the race ending under safety car. Instead, he fudged the rules to get the best of both worlds- you can kind of see where he was coming from, but you can’t really have a race director just changing rules on the fly to improve entertainment value.

That said, you are not wrong that ending a race under safety car is kinda lame and there have been many calls to think about rule changes to fix this. The problem is that F1 cars don’t refuel during the race and are fueled to complete exactly the number of laps the race has, meaning you can’t just add on laps to the end of the race because everyone would run out of fuel. You could throw a red flag and have everyone park in the pits and restart, but that creates its own set of issues and would be “unfair” in its own right.
Once the decision was made to let the cars unlap themselves, all of them must do so. They couldn't all have made it before the end of the race. The objective error in rule application was to only allow the cars between Lewis and Max to unlap. That shouldn't have happened.
Thanks. That is quite helpful. That was my guess…there wasn’t time to unlap everyone. To me, then, it seems the most fair way to do it would have been no unlaps and just race once the wreck was cleared.

I had no idea about that NASCAR rule. Even dumber. I can’t think of any other sport that essentially takes points off the board to make it more dramatic. I guess a lot of NBA games feel like only the last 5 minutes matter, but at least they get there organically.
 

Leon Trotsky

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They could have also red-flagged the race, right? Or at least since they were making up the rules on the fly anyway, they could have done that. If they did that, everyone could put on new tires (or no one could), so they would have had more fair racing conditions for the final sprint to the finish.

In fact, after the Italian GP, I was thinking why don't they institute a rule where if there is a yellow in say the last 5 laps its an automatic red flag and they just race to the end? Seems way better than finishing it lamely under yellow.
 

saintnick912

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That auto red flag seems like the best for entertainment while being relatively fair to all runners. Fix the rules after the race if they need fixing and it's not an immediate safety issue.