I love the smell of burning oil in the morning - The Formula 1 2022 season

rguilmar

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I haven’t looked forward to an F1 season this much before. That Haas is an aggressive looking car, though it’s a rendering of the actual car and I don’t have any others to compare it to. The ‘Merican in me wants them to do well knowing they punted last year.
 

Chainsaw318

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The most popular thread I have started in my SoSH career and you take it from me?

;)
I’ll get excited for this season, especially since it looks like some friends and I will be attending Montreal, so long as it happens.

I’m still a little heartbroken over the crap show that was the final laps of last season though. Hopefully by March, I’m ready to go.

It could be a wild season, with the new spec cars all performing so much more unpredictably than in recent memory.
 

Bongorific

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I haven’t looked forward to an F1 season this much before. That Haas is an aggressive looking car, though it’s a rendering of the actual car and I don’t have any others to compare it to. The ‘Merican in me wants them to do well knowing they punted last year.
As a novice to the support, what goes into “punting” a season? They just looked incompetent and under funded. Does punting get them under the salary cap? A higher draft pick?
 

cgori

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As a novice to the support, what goes into “punting” a season? They just looked incompetent and under funded. Does punting get them under the salary cap? A higher draft pick?
They decided that because the rules were changing (significantly) for this year they would not put any engineering effort into improving last year's car during the season, they just put that manpower into building the best car possible for this season, starting early last year.

By the rules ("sporting regs") there are some parts that they have to make themselves to be a team (cannot be outsourced), so they did all of that. A lot of the other components are/were sourced from Ferrari, potentially from years-prior cars/designs. From the video it looks like they are still receiving a fair bit of design from Ferrari.
 

Beomoose

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As a novice to the support, what goes into “punting” a season? They just looked incompetent and under funded. Does punting get them under the salary cap? A higher draft pick?
To build on cgori's answer: Haas never had the budget of the big hitter teams, who have spent epic amounts of cash each year. Gene Haas, the owner, was reportedly on the verge of pulling out after the team's once promising start stalled out a few seasons ago and he was looking at the prospect of spending a lot of money to not accomplish much going forward. Although the cost cap started last year, the regulations for the cars didn't change until the 2021 season ended; so cars that were good in 2020 needed less development to be good in 2021. Since Haas' 2019/20 car was a dog, for 2021 they were essentially doomed to either spend a lot of what they had available to field an at best middling car for 1 season...or punt and stick with the dog while focusing their financial resources on the all new 2022 spec.

They've also benefitted from the impact of the cost cap on the mega teams, in particular Ferrari. They always worked with Ferrari, but their chassis engineering department was mostly from respected chassis builder Dallara. Now, they've brought more of that work "in house" by hiring Ferrari people who the prancing horse can't afford in the cost cap and establishing a design center on the Italian team's campus in Maranello. There's also incentive for Ferrari to help Haas out more than in the past, they want Mick driving their car in a couple years but will need him to perform well in his current ride to justify the move.
 

Bongorific

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They decided that because the rules were changing (significantly) for this year they would not put any engineering effort into improving last year's car during the season, they just put that manpower into building the best car possible for this season, starting early last year.

By the rules ("sporting regs") there are some parts that they have to make themselves to be a team (cannot be outsourced), so they did all of that. A lot of the other components are/were sourced from Ferrari, potentially from years-prior cars/designs. From the video it looks like they are still receiving a fair bit of design from Ferrari.
To build on cgori's answer: Haas never had the budget of the big hitter teams, who have spent epic amounts of cash each year. Gene Haas, the owner, was reportedly on the verge of pulling out after the team's once promising start stalled out a few seasons ago and he was looking at the prospect of spending a lot of money to not accomplish much going forward. Although the cost cap started last year, the regulations for the cars didn't change until the 2021 season ended; so cars that were good in 2020 needed less development to be good in 2021. Since Haas' 2019/20 car was a dog, for 2021 they were essentially doomed to either spend a lot of what they had available to field an at best middling car for 1 season...or punt and stick with the dog while focusing their financial resources on the all new 2022 spec.

They've also benefitted from the impact of the cost cap on the mega teams, in particular Ferrari. They always worked with Ferrari, but their chassis engineering department was mostly from respected chassis builder Dallara. Now, they've brought more of that work "in house" by hiring Ferrari people who the prancing horse can't afford in the cost cap and establishing a design center on the Italian team's campus in Maranello. There's also incentive for Ferrari to help Haas out more than in the past, they want Mick driving their car in a couple years but will need him to perform well in his current ride to justify the move.
Thanks guys. This is great info.
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t think we’ll see much beyond liveries until testing starts. With this being a new launch nobody will be giving anything away.

Lewis is back on social media, lowering fears he’s about to retire. The #1 thing I’m looking forward to this year is Ham vs Russell

I don’t think there is any chance in hell Masi starts the year as Race Director, but if they don’t have any strong revisions to the regulations it’ll be chaotic regardless who is in that seat.

Let’s get this shit started.
 

Nick Kaufman

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So Red Bull and Aston Martin presented their new cars, but apparently only the Aston Martin is the real new car, Red Bull seems to have pulled back from revealing details.

I 've seen people rave about the new Aston Martin Livery and though I approve of the lime addition, it doesn't work for me, mostly because of the green hue they are using and partly because I would have prefered if the ads were also in lime. I would have liked it more if it it used the Oregon colors.


]
 

mikeot

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So Red Bull and Aston Martin presented their new cars, but apparently only the Aston Martin is the real new car, Red Bull seems to have pulled back from revealing details.

I 've seen people rave about the new Aston Martin Livery and though I approve of the lime addition, it doesn't work for me, mostly because of the green hue they are using and partly because I would have prefered if the ads were also in lime. I would have liked it more if it it used the Oregon colors.


]
It's Aston's traditional racing color, like the Shelby-driven 1959 LeMans winner:

49304
 

SocrManiac

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FIA meeting tomorrow about Russian athletes. I didn't realize that they had full recognition status within the IOC. That should seal the deal on Mazepin, no? Seemed like Haas were getting ready to pull the trigger on their own, but it would probably be cleaner to handle it at the higher level.
 

cgori

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I just got around to finishing off S3 of this just for completeness and to be "caught up" for S4. The handling of Grosjean's accident was really something. One almost forgets how crazy that situation was, and watching the episode brings it right back in frame.

For whatever reason, Netflix "wrapped around" and showed me S1E1, I ended up watching about half of that episode. It was SUPER WEIRD seeing 1) Danny Ric driving for Red Bull in Australia with "young Verstappen" supposed to be learning from the wily veteran, 2) everything totally pre-pandemic in terms of attitudes and fans, and 3) Haas (ominously) retiring both cars from 4th/5th in the race in Australia after having a great quali.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I have some bad news to report on that front. I watched an early review of the show that said it was mediocre this season. It doesn't surprise me. OTOH, Drive to Survive is reality tv that has story lines that are contrived to an extent, OTOH, the people participating on it get wise to it and become more controlling of what they give. I don't think it's a coincidence that the juiciest parts involved lower ranked teams and up and coming drivers.
 

tmracht

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Yeah with Max abstaining most early reviews say the season doesn't have a central narrative.
 

Bongorific

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Yeah I don’t really need the rivalry storyline of it anyway. I got hooked season 1 because it’s the most gorgeous looking and sounding show on streaming.
 

Beomoose

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Yes! Fucking never should have happened but at least this particular nightmare is over. Now, corporate America, how about stepping the fuck up for the home team?
 

Phragle

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Something doesn't sit quite right w me on the Mazepin situation. If a driver is fired for something his home counrty decides to do, should he have had the ride in the first place?
 

SocrManiac

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Something doesn't sit quite right w me on the Mazepin situation. If a driver is fired for something his home counrty decides to do, should he have had the ride in the first place?
No, Mazepin shouldn’t have had the seat in the first place. As soon as they cleared the sponsorship hurdle his nationality didn’t matter anymore. He was the worst driver F1 has seen in a long time.
 

Average Reds

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Something doesn't sit quite right w me on the Mazepin situation. If a driver is fired for something his home counrty decides to do, should he have had the ride in the first place?
The answer is no, but less-than-qualified drivers “buying their seat” with one of the back marker teams is not an uncommon phenomenon in F1. (Lance Stroll is a better driver than Mazepin, but this is how he got his seat.)

What is less common is for the sponsorship to unravel. Once that happens there’s no reason to keep him on, so Mazepin is gone.
 

cgori

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Those sponsorship dollars matter a lot. I have it in my head that some of the early drives that Checo had (Sauber, Force India) were at least partly facilitated by the fact that he came with a fat bundle of Telmex/Carlos Slim cash. Now, he's obviously way more talented than Mazepin, but sometimes (often) you need talent and sponsorship to make it.
 

Phragle

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I guess it's the issue of paid drivers, but it seems even dirtier after the way he got fired. Like I would imagine something similar would happen w Zhou if China went to war, but If Britain did Lewis and Norris are safe.
 

SocrManiac

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I think you’re ignoring how hilariously awful a driver he is. He isn’t getting screwed out of a seat he’s earned. He’s a dangerous driver with a shitty history that had no place in F1. Haas bit the bullet and brought him on in exchange for the sponsor money. Once there was no financial incentive to keep him there sure as hell wasn’t a sporting one.
 

Average Reds

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I guess it's the issue of paid drivers, but it seems even dirtier after the way he got fired. Like I would imagine something similar would happen w Zhou if China went to war, but If Britain did Lewis and Norris are safe.
I’m not sure why you keep implying that Mazepin was let go because “Russia went to war.” He was let go because his sponsor could no longer pay.

If he was supremely talented or if his sponsor was still paying he would still be an F1 driver.
 

tmracht

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I think you’re ignoring how hilariously awful a driver he is. He isn’t getting screwed out of a seat he’s earned. He’s a dangerous driver with a shitty history that had no place in F1. Haas bit the bullet and brought him on in exchange for the sponsor money. Once there was no financial incentive to keep him there sure as hell wasn’t a sporting one.
Yep look back just at last year's thread. Nikita didn't belong and that's nothing to do with the nationality. Just was so bad.

Mazepin has no place in this sport. Best case is he ruins races. I feel like the likely case is he causes some spectacular crashes.
I don’t disagree, but didn’t he get screwed by the Mazepin spin?
Looking forward to having a safety car every race just to collect Mazepin’s wreck.
We call him Mazespin and he lived up to it.

Not sure how Max threw that away with going off the the track on the pass. Lewis got all he could off those run down tires. Great race.
Maze-ram.

We knew he’d be taking out other competitors, too.
Less than 1 lap. Poor Williams.
 

Phragle

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I think you’re ignoring how hilariously awful a driver he is. He isn’t getting screwed out of a seat he’s earned. He’s a dangerous driver with a shitty history that had no place in F1. Haas bit the bullet and brought him on in exchange for the sponsor money. Once there was no financial incentive to keep him there sure as hell wasn’t a sporting one.
Oh there's no question he was the most wild driver on the grid, but he was also in a car widely described as nearly impossible to drive. I am ignoring his lack of talent a bit -- I don't think he's good, but that was evident from the beginning of F1, and in his lower level career. He didn't just now start sucking, but he did just now get terminated.

I’m not sure why you keep implying that Mazepin was let go because “Russia went to war.” He was let go because his sponsor could no longer pay.

If he was supremely talented or if his sponsor was still paying he would still be an F1 driver.
Was that not not war related? Honestly asking because I haven't wanted to pay attention to F1 that much. I'm still extremely sour about last season and I'm doing a small protest. I'm taking in some podcasts still, one host said "Haas felt it was problematic" and that "Steiner felt Mazepin couldn't grasp how untenable the situation was" never mentioned the money, so I don't know. I'm starting to think if I don't want to feel dirty, I should dislike all paid drivers from the start and all the way through, that way when they're tossed out its "finally" instead of "that's not very nice".
 

Average Reds

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Was that not not war related?
The sponsors inability to pay was related to the sanctions imposed because of the war, yes.

If the war still happens but the sponsor doesn’t lose the ability to pay, Mazepin is almost certainly still driving for Haas. (IMO, of course.)

Honestly asking because I haven't wanted to pay attention to F1 that much. I'm still extremely sour about last season and I'm doing a small protest. I'm taking in some podcasts still, one host said "Haas felt it was problematic" and that "Steiner felt Mazepin couldn't grasp how untenable the situation was" never mentioned the money, so I don't know. I'm starting to think if I don't want to feel dirty, I should dislike all paid drivers from the start and all the way through, that way when they're tossed out its "finally" instead of "that's not very nice".
I’ve always felt that the issue of drivers “buying” their ride is problematic, but it’s been in Formula 1 for as long as I’ve followed the sport. The main issue is can the driver develop?

Mazepin was talented enough to attract sponsorship and get an F1 ride, but he couldn’t develop beyond his equipment. That made it an easy call for Haas when he lost his sponsorship.

As an aside, I don’t blame you for feeling sour. I share the feeling.
 

SocrManiac

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I don’t think even the most unabashed Verstappen fan feels right about last year. The season was spectacularly flawed. The FIA needs to rebuild trust with drivers, teams, and fans. They haven’t shown a great talent for understanding that and I remain skeptical that they’ll properly try. The limited reporting of the investigation was a real let down that suggests to me they were going through the motions to satisfy a checkbox requirement, not making an honest effort.
 

Nick Kaufman

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The sponsors inability to pay was related to the sanctions imposed because of the war, yes.

If the war still happens but the sponsor doesn’t lose the ability to pay, Mazepin is almost certainly still driving for Haas. (IMO, of course.)



I’ve always felt that the issue of drivers “buying” their ride is problematic, but it’s been in Formula 1 for as long as I’ve followed the sport. The main issue is can the driver develop?

Mazepin was talented enough to attract sponsorship and get an F1 ride, but he couldn’t develop beyond his equipment. That made it an easy call for Haas when he lost his sponsorship.

As an aside, I don’t blame you for feeling sour. I share the feeling.
If I am not mistaken Uralkali was his dad's company. And yes, without his dad's money, he doesn't get the seat on merit. Other that, I agree on principle, that Russians shouldn't be targeted or losing their jobs because they are Russians.

Having said that Mazepin got the reputation of being reckless and crashing all the time, but again if I am not mistaken Schumacher crashed more.
 

SocrManiac

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If I am not mistaken Uralkali was his dad's company. And yes, without his dad's money, he doesn't get the seat on merit. Other that, I agree on principle, that Russians shouldn't be targeted or losing their jobs because they are Russians.

Having said that Mazepin got the reputation of being reckless and crashing all the time, but again if I am not mistaken Schumacher crashed more.
As bad as Haas were, the gap between Schumacher and Mazepin was wider than any other teammate pairing on the grid. There's a graphical review here that's handy.

This all ignores Mazepin's off-track reputation, including a well-publicized sexual harassment case that I would have liked to see get him the boot.
 

cgori

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As bad as Haas were, the gap between Schumacher and Mazepin was wider than any other teammate pairing on the grid. There's a graphical review here that's handy.
That analysis is BRUTAL. Out-qual'd every time (by 0.5-1.0 sec typically, but sometimes much more), finished ahead in only 3 races.
 

Phragle

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The sponsors inability to pay was related to the sanctions imposed because of the war, yes.

If the war still happens but the sponsor doesn’t lose the ability to pay, Mazepin is almost certainly still driving for Haas. (IMO, of course.)



I’ve always felt that the issue of drivers “buying” their ride is problematic, but it’s been in Formula 1 for as long as I’ve followed the sport. The main issue is can the driver develop?

Mazepin was talented enough to attract sponsorship and get an F1 ride, but he couldn’t develop beyond his equipment. That made it an easy call for Haas when he lost his sponsorship.

As an aside, I don’t blame you for feeling sour. I share the feeling.
Copy

I don’t think even the most unabashed Verstappen fan feels right about last year. The season was spectacularly flawed. The FIA needs to rebuild trust with drivers, teams, and fans. They haven’t shown a great talent for understanding that and I remain skeptical that they’ll properly try. The limited reporting of the investigation was a real let down that suggests to me they were going through the motions to satisfy a checkbox requirement, not making an honest effort.
I've sort of tricked myself into thinking this season will validate last years Max and Lewis battle. Like last year was the regular season and this is the playoffs. I seriously considered not watching after the Abu Dhabi disaster, but I've seen many pro Max personalities admit it wasn't great. It's probably as close as the two fan bases are to agreeing about anything that happened in 2021. I can suck it up and move on now. Everyone knows what happened.

Haas brought back K-Mag. That wasn’t on my radar.
Great move IMO. Mazepin who?
 

Plantiers Wart

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If I am not mistaken Uralkali was his dad's company. And yes, without his dad's money, he doesn't get the seat on merit. Other that, I agree on principle, that Russians shouldn't be targeted or losing their jobs because they are Russians.

Having said that Mazepin got the reputation of being reckless and crashing all the time, but again if I am not mistaken Schumacher crashed more.
Yes, his father is part owner. He is worth $950 million, and is recognized as an "oligarch". So I assume the sanctions hit him hard. But if daddy can't pony up the money, Nikita is not getting a seat.
 

Phragle

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Testing wrapped up today and it appears porpoising will be the word of the season, no team is ringing any alarm bells, the cars are heavy and you can tell. Danny Ric is off to another bad start (Covid, might miss the first race.) Merc brought non-existent side pods that were newsworthy, and Red Bull responded the next day with a side pod and floor upgrade. Ferrari looks good too, Mclaren appears to be holding back. Max set the fastest lap, but it was still about two seconds (I think) slower than last seasons qualifying. K-Mag seems to not have missed a beat and JMO but the field looks like it might be fairly close to start this season.

Drive to survive was released and I thought it was fairly disappointing. Brazil wasn't even mentioned. I think maybe I wanted it to be something it was never going to be. It was standard DTS. I wanted a documentary on the Merc-RB battle. Someone needs to do that. Until they changed the rules three times in the final laps, that was the best single season of sports I've ever witnessed
 

mattquinley

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Cautiously optimistic about this season based on the testing, but in recent years the sandbagging during testing has been epic. It would not surprise me in the least to see Mercedes a half second clear of the field in qualifying next week. I'm really hoping Haas' pace is real and they have enough reliability to regularly fight for points this year.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Drive to survive was released and I thought it was fairly disappointing. Brazil wasn't even mentioned. I think maybe I wanted it to be something it was never going to be. It was standard DTS. I wanted a documentary on the Merc-RB battle. Someone needs to do that. Until they changed the rules three times in the final laps, that was the best single season of sports I've ever witnessed
I'm only halfway through, but I agree so far. Last year was my first year following the (second half of) the season on a race-by-race level and it really does become so much more apparent how much the narratives are, if not contrived, at least characterized in a way that doesn't really reflect what happened on track. My favorite example of this through the first five episodes is Mazepin's performance at Sochi, which is portrayed as a moral victory where he finally made a smart move and switched to inters before everyone else. They show him crossing the finish line and his team congratulating him along the lines of "nice work, Maz, you beat Mick and Latifi." Of course, they neglect to mention that both of those drivers crashed out and Mazepin was still a full lap behind the next car! Not a big deal but gave me a chuckle.
 

Phragle

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I'm only halfway through, but I agree so far. Last year was my first year following the (second half of) the season on a race-by-race level and it really does become so much more apparent how much the narratives are, if not contrived, at least characterized in a way that doesn't really reflect what happened on track. My favorite example of this through the first five episodes is Mazepin's performance at Sochi, which is portrayed as a moral victory where he finally made a smart move and switched to inters before everyone else. They show him crossing the finish line and his team congratulating him along the lines of "nice work, Maz, you beat Mick and Latifi." Of course, they neglect to mention that both of those drivers crashed out and Mazepin was still a full lap behind the next car! Not a big deal but gave me a chuckle.
Yeah I think you have to look at it as a show, more than a documentary. There was one minute I noticed where Max won at the Red Bull Ring, they showed crowd celebrations from Zanvort, and Norris comments from somehwere else. I'm sure that bothered some diehards, but from a TV show standpoint, you want to show the Zanvort celebration wiithout covering the Zanvort race, so I get that. This is my first season watching DTS after following the season too. There's definitely a lot of "wut?" but there's also all the behind the scenes stuff I like, and it was the gateway drug that got me into the sport. I'm not going to stop watching it or anything. I believe I saw one race was covered twice, and brazil wasn't covered at all. That was a downer. I don't think you can tell the story of F1 2021 without Brazil. Did you see the Daddy Mazepin stuff yet?
 

OurF'ingCity

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Yeah I think you have to look at it as a show, more than a documentary. There was one minute I noticed where Max won at the Red Bull Ring, they showed crowd celebrations from Zanvort, and Norris comments from somehwere else. I'm sure that bothered some diehards, but from a TV show standpoint, you want to show the Zanvort celebration wiithout covering the Zanvort race, so I get that. This is my first season watching DTS after following the season too. There's definitely a lot of "wut?" but there's also all the behind the scenes stuff I like, and it was the gateway drug that got me into the sport. I'm not going to stop watching it or anything. I believe I saw one race was covered twice, and brazil wasn't covered at all. That was a downer. I don't think you can tell the story of F1 2021 without Brazil. Did you see the Daddy Mazepin stuff yet?
The Daddy Mazepin stuff was good, and the Yuki episode, which I just watched, was good too - I knew him as a kind of underwhelming rookie driver that I frankly never paid much attention to, but the show really endeared me to his potty mouth and just generally unfiltered personality.
The deep dives into the middling-to-bad teams is where I think the show really excels. Given that, it’s a bit frustrating that the show acts if as Aston Martin and Alfa Romeo don’t exist at all - although, to be fair, they devoted a good amount of time to Force India/Racing Point/Stroll in prior years and I’m guessing for AR they couldn’t find a meaningful storyline for Gio and Kimi is…well, I’m guessing he wasn’t giving Horner-level takes when he was interviewed, if he even bothered to speak to the show at all.
 

Phragle

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Yeah the Yuki stuff was good. He got some unfair hate last year. Alpha was nothing last season -- very vanilla, but I'm sure they could have made something juicy out of Aston. Vettel and Papa Stroll has been the stars of previous episodes and Lance nearly drove Seb off the track a handful of times. Maybe Aston refused to play ball? The Mazepins are even bigger pricks than I imagined.


Chain Bear called Christian Horner Michael Jock and I haven't been able to get it out of my head since. It's perfect. Below is the first of a multi tweet thread

View: https://twitter.com/chainbear/status/1502740698168188929
 

tmracht

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Hulkenberg and KMag all those Bahrain predictions out the window now.