I love the smell of burning oil in the morning - The Formula 1 2022 season

Phragle

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Who can watch that drone footage and honestly say it enhances the race presentation?
No, no one can. The internet says they were going for something they do in Rally cars but failed big time. I also can't stand the 360 camera during pit stops.

Looking forward to watching Russell outqualify and outrace Lewis all year. Probably won’t hold up but I can dream.
It arguably hasn't even held up so far. With the upgrades Hamiltons race pace was hard to beat. Much better than Russels
 

SocrManiac

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It arguably hasn't even held up so far. With the upgrades Hamiltons race pace was hard to beat. Much better than Russels
The F1 subreddit has an old-school SOSH-style autocorrect for folks that can't spell George's last name. Might be fun here.

Nobody responded to me here or elsewhere, but I am genuinely curious what Mercedes look like when their aero/cooling packages are inline. They're the only ones that had a heating problem identified by the race broadcast. If they were on the edge some of their pace gains may not be repeatable relative to the rest of the field.
 

mattquinley

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Nobody responded to me here or elsewhere, but I am genuinely curious what Mercedes look like when their aero/cooling packages are inline. They're the only ones that had a heating problem identified by the race broadcast. If they were on the edge some of their pace gains may not be repeatable relative to the rest of the field.
Agreed. Clearly they were right on the ragged edge in an attempt to minimize drag, and I wonder if the zero-pod concept might hurt their ability to provide sufficient cooling in extremely hot environments.

It arguably hasn't even held up so far. With the upgrades Hamiltons race pace was hard to beat. Much better than Russels
The lap charts don't really bear that out, especially when compared against the tire strategies. First 13 laps they were running times mostly within a few tenths of each other. Then George pitted and was immediately faster (as expected) until Lewis pitted on lap 22. Hamilton was faster for the rest of that stint, as he should have been, on 9-lap newer tires. Once they'd both pitted again only 3 laps apart, their times were again close for the rest of the race. We also have no idea whether either driver had been warned about the cooling issues earlier, so for all we know one or both may have had more pace available but couldn't use it.
 

Phragle

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The F1 subreddit has an old-school SOSH-style autocorrect for folks that can't spell George's last name. Might be fun here.

Nobody responded to me here or elsewhere, but I am genuinely curious what Mercedes look like when their aero/cooling packages are inline. They're the only ones that had a heating problem identified by the race broadcast. If they were on the edge some of their pace gains may not be repeatable relative to the rest of the field.
From what I understand it was a water leak. However it is odd that both cars would have that same issue

The lap charts don't really bear that out, especially when compared against the tire strategies. First 13 laps they were running times mostly within a few tenths of each other. Then George pitted and was immediately faster (as expected) until Lewis pitted on lap 22. Hamilton was faster for the rest of that stint, as he should have been, on 9-lap newer tires. Once they'd both pitted again only 3 laps apart, their times were again close for the rest of the race. We also have no idea whether either driver had been warned about the cooling issues earlier, so for all we know one or both may have had more pace available but couldn't use it.
I haven't looked at the individual splits but after lap 1, Hamilton was 54 seconds behind either Verstappen or the leader (Leclerc) and he finished 54 seconds behind Verstappen. That and I saw the purple clock next to Hamilton the most of anyone. His quickest lap was only beat by Perez on a late flying lap, and was over a second better than Max's best.

There are ton of question I still want answered post Barcelona, but Hamilton's race pace isn't one of them
 

SocrManiac

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From what I understand it was a water leak. However it is odd that both cars would have that same issue
Russell was overheating early in the race. Once the radios get posted I’ll dig it up, but I’m pretty sure he was given some instruction about it before Max even attacked him. That suggests to me it at least started as insufficient air past the radiators. That could develop into a leak, could just as well be coincidental.
 

cgori

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Who can watch that drone footage and honestly say it enhances the race presentation?
It seemed like cheap/low-rent helicopter footage to me, that we get almost everywhere. I wonder if they can run it more / under different conditions than the helicopter cams and that's why they are trying it. I'm sure that it's a lot, lot cheaper.

I expected a total snoozefest at Barcelona, very pleased with what we got instead.
 

Phragle

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Russell was overheating early in the race. Once the radios get posted I’ll dig it up, but I’m pretty sure he was given some instruction about it before Max even attacked him. That suggests to me it at least started as insufficient air past the radiators. That could develop into a leak, could just as well be coincidental.
Lewis had early issues to according to twitter

It's worth noting that Merc is using 3d printed intercoolers and radiators borrowed from the air powered rocket industry. They're said to be more efficient, and when makes their tiny sidepods possible
 
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mikeot

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Always loved the Monaco GP, chiefly because it almost never is a reflection of how the season progresses as a whole and is often full of surprises. This one looks like no exception - anything can happen.
 

mattquinley

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Ahead of the restart, it looks like Ferrari found a way to screw up the pit/tire strategy yet again. They'll be lucky to hold onto P4 & 5.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Considering Barcelona and Monaco are generally considered two of the duller races of the season, the last two weekends have been pretty entertaining (helps that I was watching on DVR today and could skip through the hour delay at the start and the red flag after Mick’s crash).
 

reggiecleveland

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Nico Rosberg was on the qualifying and pre-race coverage for Sky Sports and I wonder if they will have him back. Three times they tried to pressure him into saying Hamilton was the ultimate teammate and helping Russell by figuring the car out, and mentoring George. Each time he said that was not he case and Lewis was preoccupied with his own performance, and that justifiably Lewis considered himself #1 and wanted Mercedes to fix his problems. Nico was smart enough to pivot onto Lando Norris and Goerge being UK future world champions.

I expect Max was pissed about Checo ending qualifying becasue Max was ahead of Leclerc's post time when the qualifying was ended.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Rosberg is on Sky all the time. Verstappen wasn't pissed about Perez, he said these things happen to Monaco so one has to accept them and move on.
 

cgori

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Looks like the wet track and passing rain is going to cause a lot of early pit stops.
I'm pretty sure I wrote something about this in last year's F1 thread, or maybe even the year before (!) - the best races are when quali/race have opposite weather. Best always is dry quali / wet race, but wet quali / dry race also tends to be interesting, in both cases the setups are compromised, and with a wet quali the running order is usually shuffled/out-of-normal. Happened again yesterday, even with the typical Monaco almost-no-way-to-pass problem.

There were a lot of articles hyping up the potential loss of Monaco from the calendar. My guess was that F1 (Liberty Media) is trying to exert maximum pressure on ACM (auto club of Monaco) to release control over the event. The big talking points were the TV coverage (always has been weird/substandard), the separate ad program (clearly weird to have different sponsors for a single race), and ACM not being open to even small changes to circuit configuration. Then you read comments on those articles and people are like "there's no way to have a road course in such an old town that doesn't have all these lack-of-overtaking problems" and it's like ... Baku is in two weeks, maybe have a look?
 

tmracht

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Perez on fire. Leclerc too. Stroll is the opposite of on fire. Alonso and Ham either dirty or savvy or penalized.
 

Nick Kaufman

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Leclerc's last lap was on fire, but I am thinking he benefited from Sainz' tow.

However, it's the second race in a row that Perez has outqualified Verstappen. Maybe he will end up competing for the title this year after all.

Having said that, so far in the season Red Bull had better race pace than Ferrari mainly because of less tire degradation. And since they are faster in the straights and Baku features one of the longer (the longest? ) straights in the calendar that gives a huge silipstream, I don't know if Leclerc can hold them back tomorrow.
 

cgori

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Perez on fire. Leclerc too. Stroll is the opposite of on fire. Alonso and Ham either dirty or savvy or penalized.
Ham at least, just savvy. Trying to get a tow (and failing), but didn't exceed the min delta and safely offline on a straight, so no rule broken.

Alonso, literally a no-op (nothing from the stewards, from what I can tell). Crafty old vet, I think.

Perez should have the straight-line speed to make it interesting tomorrow, but crazy stuff happens at Baku every year.
 

reggiecleveland

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I look to you more knowledgeable fans for your thoughts/.

Toto suggested that the current rules are creating bouncing that puts all the drivers at risk. The announcers seemed to suggest that other teams have more successfully fixed the problem, and that Mercedes could fix theoproblem, but that would make them much slower. They seemed to be saying in polite British manner that Toto has a bad design and rather than write this year off, he wants to slow everyone else down, and until then is fine putting his drivers at risk.
 

SocrManiac

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There are some great explanations of what causes porpoising- it’s helpful to have that baseline before engaging in discussion/speculation. Oversimplifying, the airflow under the car creates a low pressure area. As the speeds increase, the low pressure increases, drawing the car toward the ground. Eventually, the car hits a point where there’s suddenly insufficient airflow underneath to maintain the low pressure, the downforce disappears, and the car springs back up. At the increased height, airflow resumes, and the cycle continues.

Horner mentioned it in his post-race interview- eliminating the bouncing is as simple as raising the car back up. However, this has adverse effects on drag and how the downforce is built.

The early design choices by the Mercedes (typically rake angle, meaning that angle of the car relative to the ground) mean it will be greatly affected by raising the floor, making it completely uncompetitive (not that it’s super competitive now).

So, yeah, Mercedes are painted into a corner. Red Bull are in a better situation, as are Ferrari. I think both sides of this argument can be correct here- there’s a safety issue for cars that are severely impacted by this. Fixing the problem via active suspension systems would also penalize the teams that have made more effective design decisions.

The problem is… If Mercedes have created the safety issue through their design, should they be allowed to fix it through a rule change? I lean toward no- raise the car, eliminate the issue, and be as competitive as possible until it can be fixed next year. That’s what happens to midfield and backmarking teams. Should Mercedes be granted leniency because they’re used to being the best, have been the best, and blew it with the new cars? Seems like a simple answer.
 

Phragle

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It seeming like Merc's problem is baked into the small side pods making the floor too flexible. I believe the original idea was that the flexible floor would act like side skirts, but it back fired. Per twitter Toto say they can't raise the ride height anymore, which is odd because it look like the lowest car on the grid right now. It's also odd that their problem is back after being the least bouncy car in Barcelona. I'm not Adrian Newey, but I would think they'd have to revise the side pods at the bottom to increase the floor stiffness, and raise the floor to increase suspension travel. I wouldn't imagine they can adapt the currect floor to those ideas, so by my count that would be the third side pod design, and fourth or fifth floor. I don't imagine they have the money for that

What was troubling to me today was that even Mclaren was bouncing. So far they've been known for not having enough downforce to get the porpoising started. I think it could just be track specific, so if it's not changed soon it probably won't be. The idea of the rule change should lose momentum. I'm against changing any rules mid season (and mid race, looking at you AD). I think they should reinstate the lower the minimum weight too while we're at it.

I've been thinking of how F1 can get the best product. If they want to limit porpoising they're going to reduce downforce and increase drag, or increase weight. They could combat it with more wing, but then you're going backwards toward the last regulations. The only way I can figure is to make the cars lighter, and ideally smaller. Bin the minimum weight, decrease the maximum dimensions, bin e10 and maybe the MGU, perhaps smaller batteries and displacement, and for the love of god change the wheels back.


Edit: Oh, also. I can't believe they let that Tsunoda wing damage shit fly
 
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Chainsaw318

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I’ve been less enthused this season, after the way the last season ended and being irked that the Red Bulls look like they nailed this new spec while so many others didn’t.

However, I’m going with some friends to the race this week and a combo of Montreal, unreliable Ferrari engines and a forecast for rain have me hoping for a replay of the totally nuts Canada 2011 race.

I think you can find it or clips of it on YouTube. The race, which was in the wet, features a bunch of great overtakes, crashes and other nonsense, including a huge rain stoppage. Also bizarre that 3 drivers from that field and the son of another should be in this weekends race, 11 years later.
 

tmracht

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Rain made for quite a session. Tomorrow going to be wild with people coming from all over the grid.
 

reggiecleveland

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I had some good laughs at the UK announcers discussing tempeure range in Montreal.

"It can get as hot as the mid 30s (95f) and as cold as —35 (basically the same in f) well I assume that winter number includes windchill"

Nope it just gets that cold. And Montreal doesn't get really cold
 

SocrManiac

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Alonso is going to make a hell of a road block to let Max dance away. Today was fun but tomorrow is going to be a little different.
 

tmracht

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Lewis with the low down force wing could catch a few people out that went with the high down force setup for quali.
 

Nick Kaufman

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I ll say it again. Over the past couple of years that I 've been following closely, the one driver that has impressed me with his ability to consistently take more from his car is Alonso. And the thing is every time, he does it in a different way, as he seems to have an endless bag of tricks up his sleeve. Granted, some of those tricks aren't very kosher, like the bs he pulled in the Baku qualis last week, but today he was just pure class.
 

cgori

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Alonso is going to make a hell of a road block to let Max dance away. Today was fun but tomorrow is going to be a little different.
I think it's 50/50 (maybe 60/40) if there will be a turn 1 incident tomorrow - I can imagine Zhou getting caught up in something, and I can also imagine Sainz/Lewis being overly aggressive trying to out-drag Alonso hard, because of what you say. (Also George and Danny Ric trying to clear Ocon/the 2 Haas cars for similar reasons).

Max will probably coast away, but I think overtakes are possible at Montreal so the fight for the rest of the podium could be really interesting with the partially inverted grid order. If Charles doesn't have a mechanical DNF (big if for Ferrari these days), he could come 3rd.
 

SocrManiac

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That's exactly what we all predicted. :oops:

Ferrari just can't put a full race together with a working car, good strategy, and good execution. What a disaster.
 

cgori

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It's nice see Zhou figure it out. The last thing we needed was another paid driver
Agreed. I sort of crapped on Zhou in my predictions (to be fair, lots of new-ish drivers make these kind of mistakes in inverted grids) but I was really impressed with his composure.
 

Chainsaw318

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Was at the race weekend and had a great time, with the exception of being out in the elements too long on Saturday and shivering by the time it got to FP3, and having to drive to Montreal and back because my flights got cancelled repeatedly.


I could not recommend the event more - super enthusiastic crowds, with very little of the aggressive energy you can sometimes feel at us professional sports events. People were drinking a lot and eating, but I didn’t see any jawing or anything more assertive between groups of people, and most were excited to chat, no matter where they were from, what team gear they were wearing or what drivers they supported.

On Saturday, for FP3 and quali, we were at the end of the pit exit, so we could see that, the link at the end of the straight, and the first sweeping turn.

in the wet, almost every driver blew the turn once and we were right where Max almost pot himself into the wall and where Russell glided away when he tried the slicks.

On Sunday, we were on the inside of the hairpin, and it was beautiful weather. We saw some of the great passes as Leclerc and some others tossed themselves into the corner on the inside, and where Carlos locked it the last 2 laps.
 

SocrManiac

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Battle lines being drawn again in F1.

First, Nelson Piquet used some inappropriate language when talking about Hamilton. He issued a non-apology apology, leaning on the translation defense.

Several current drivers came out in support of Hamilton, including a nice note from Danny Ric. F1 has banned Piquet from the paddock.

Bernie then used his position to defend Piquet, then doubled down by claiming he’d take a bullet for the “misunderstood” Putin.

Now, Max has come out and said Piquet is wrong, then claimed that the guy isn’t racist and shouldn’t be banned. He’s also dating the guy’s daughter.

I realize this shouldn’t move my needle much. F1 is what it is. It’s frustrating to see folks involved making a genuine effort to combat racism and inequality, even while stuffing pockets from people and countries enforcing it. I like that Piquet has been banned, but having the reigning champ support the guy undermines it.

But hey, at least Horner said Masi blew the restart!
 

SocrManiac

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What the fuck… All of that was links to the appropriate stories. Now I just look more like a rambling idiot.
 

88 MVP

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I’ll put my hand up as someone who is relatively new to the sport (S1 of Drive to Survive). I immediately wound up rooting for Red Bull as the challenger to Lewis/Mercedes’ run of dominance and was very much team Max during his battles with Lewis last year.

The delayed and weak response from Max and Red Bull can’t be justified… I think I’m out as a fan. Not having the pull of American sports team “laundry” that I grew up cheering for makes it a lot easier to just drop my fandom and find a new team/drivers