Gitter done, Theo: let's put all our dumb I mean brilliant trade suggestions in this thread

The Gray Eagle

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I think we should have a thread where we talk about potential trades the red Sox might make.
In other threads, people have suggested a bunch of trades we could make. A couple popular ideas: trading for Kepler from the Twins, or taking Yelich's contract from the Brewers in exchange for getting one of their good pitchers. How realistic are those ideas?

Since I am starting this thread I'll have to include a trade proposal of my own. My suggestions are at least as dumb as anyone else's, so...
Who says no?
Padres give: Tatis, Hader, Don Orsillo
Red Sox give: Sale, Duran, Hosmer, Brasier, Kutter Crawford, Dalbec, Tony Massarotti

No seriously, what trades do you think the Red Sox will make this offseason?
 

SeoulSoxFan

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The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt.

Since Kim is way cheaper than Tatis, Padres would be wise to hold on to the fan favorite. The versatile infielder has a paltry $7m a year salary that runs until 2025.

He posted 3.7 WAR in 2022 for SD, 5th on the Padres overall & 10th in the majors for shortstops.

View: https://youtu.be/sU6K-HtYwhA


What does that mean for the Sox? I'd be weary of trading for Tatis. If anything, go get Kim instead.

His defensive highlights are insane:

View: https://youtu.be/e-AJ1kbeGdg
 

Daniel_Son

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Reiterating from the FA thread, I'd love to see to see the Sox kick the tires on a Yelich + Woodruff/Burnes trade.
 

Preacher

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The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt.

Since Kim is way cheaper than Tatis, Padres would be wise to hold on to the fan favorite. The versatile infielder has a paltry $7m a year salary that runs until 2025.

He posted 3.7 WAR in 2022 for SD, 5th on the Padres overall & 10th in the majors for shortstops.

View: https://youtu.be/sU6K-HtYwhA


What does that mean for the Sox? I'd be weary of trading for Tatis. If anything, go get Kim instead.

His defensive highlights are insane:

View: https://youtu.be/e-AJ1kbeGdg
He had at least two opportunities to catch the ball and dive uncontrollably into the stands and didn’t go for it. That’s not gold glove worthy.
 

jon abbey

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The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt.
That the Yankees will try to trade for him? Maybe for 3B if they could dump Donaldson, Cashman does trade for a lot of guys with precisely two years left (and Kim has a 2025 team option) but NY has a lot of infield options, they need outfielders.
 

grimshaw

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What I've noticed from looking at every roster, is that most of the bad teams have sold off just about everything of value, or just have terrible players (like the Royals, Tigers, Nationals and Reds).

I'm struggling to even find rentals or arbitration guys since I don't know what the Twins, White Sox or Giants will do. Lance Lynn, Sonny Gray and Alex Cobb are some useful veterans on those teams, and for short term contracts the Sox could afford them but . . . meh. And the Giants tend to not sell either.

Bad teams who I don't think will sell are the D-Backs, Rangers, Angels(maybe this is why they always suck?) and Rockies. The Cubs and Brewers are wild cards but I think the Brewers will reload. It's not a great division.

I'm only seeing two impact guys who may potentially be available - Sean Murphy and Pablo Lopez. If I'm the A's or Marlins they should hold out unless they are completely blown away.

The only other guy that I'd be interested in and won't be as cost prohibitive as the above two guys is Ian Happ.

Edit: Looking more closely at Lopez, I'm not sure I'd even consider him an impact guy necessarily, just very capable and in his prime.
 
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Daniel_Son

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That would be Woodruff or Burnes, right? Not both?
Which would you prefer? Which is more realistic?
Probably Woodruff, right? Burnes is 2 years younger, slightly better numbers, and has about 100 fewer innings on his arm. And although BTV rates Yelich's contract extremely poorly, I think he's still got value, especially with the new shift rules taking effect next year given his launch angles. Probably not an MVP-level talent anymore, but fringe All-Star with decent defense? If it gets us a pitcher of Woodruff's caliber, I'll gladly take it.

I'd start the conversation with Houck and Duran and see where that gets us.
 

jon abbey

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I'm only seeing two impact guys who may potentially be available - Sean Murphy and Pablo Lopez. If I'm the A's or Marlins they should hold out unless they are completely blown away.
Someone here must follow the A's much more closely than me, but from my perspective, OAK has a line of catchers waiting behind him (Langeliers, Soderstrom, Susac) and so I think would be silly to hold onto Murphy past this winter. So I think there is some pressure from their end to take the highest bid, I'm sure they won't have a problem getting good ones.
 

cantor44

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The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt.

Since Kim is way cheaper than Tatis, Padres would be wise to hold on to the fan favorite. The versatile infielder has a paltry $7m a year salary that runs until 2025.

He posted 3.7 WAR in 2022 for SD, 5th on the Padres overall & 10th in the majors for shortstops.

View: https://youtu.be/sU6K-HtYwhA


What does that mean for the Sox? I'd be weary of trading for Tatis. If anything, go get Kim instead.

His defensive highlights are insane:

View: https://youtu.be/e-AJ1kbeGdg
Good lord, Kim is sublime. Yeah, don't think the Padres would possibly let go of him.
 

fivejackace

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May 2, 2008
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I've been thinking that the Sox and Giants match up in some sort of "current roster ain't working, let's shake things up" sort of way. Both teams had excellent 2021s followed by serious underperforming 2022s... both fan bases don't want to see the same guys come back with nothing more than hope for a return to 2021 levels. That said, I was thinking SOMETHING like:

Sox give Garrett Whitlock, Chris Sale, Sale's terrible contract and Duran for Joey Bart, Yaz (think of the jersey sales) and LHP prospect Reggie Crawford (new England native, I think, replaces Dawrinzon as the last lefty in the pen until he's ready for more).

Giants don't seem to love Bart and I REALLY don't want to go into next season with the catchers currently in house. And, yes, I love Whitlock as much as you, I just hate Sale's contact so much I'd give Whitlock up to move on from it. Giants have tons of payroll room, AFAIK. Maybe they can make some chicken salad from Sale.
 

Ganthem

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I've been thinking that the Sox and Giants match up in some sort of "current roster ain't working, let's shake things up" sort of way. Both teams had excellent 2021s followed by serious underperforming 2022s... both fan bases don't want to see the same guys come back with nothing more than hope for a return to 2021 levels. That said, I was thinking SOMETHING like:

Sox give Garrett Whitlock, Chris Sale, Sale's terrible contract and Duran for Joey Bart, Yaz (think of the jersey sales) and LHP prospect Reggie Crawford (new England native, I think, replaces Dawrinzon as the last lefty in the pen until he's ready for more).

Giants don't seem to love Bart and I REALLY don't want to go into next season with the catchers currently in house. And, yes, I love Whitlock as much as you, I just hate Sale's contact so much I'd give Whitlock up to move on from it. Giants have tons of payroll room, AFAIK. Maybe they can make some chicken salad from Sale.
So we basically just give the Giants a mid to top of the rotation starter signed to a reasonable deal? Yeah I am going to have to pass on that one.
 

lurker42

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Jul 15, 2005
173
The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt.

Since Kim is way cheaper than Tatis, Padres would be wise to hold on to the fan favorite. The versatile infielder has a paltry $7m a year salary that runs until 2025.

He posted 3.7 WAR in 2022 for SD, 5th on the Padres overall & 10th in the majors for shortstops.

View: https://youtu.be/sU6K-HtYwhA


What does that mean for the Sox? I'd be weary of trading for Tatis. If anything, go get Kim instead.

His defensive highlights are insane:

View: https://youtu.be/e-AJ1kbeGdg
I live in San Diego, and local gossip/pundit talk is to move Tatis to CF to "protect his health", and keep Kim at SS. Tatis played some outfield without objection in 2021 and looked good doing so.

At bare minimum, the Padres do know how good Kim is - Gold Glove defense, above average on-base skills, and just enough power to keep pitchers honest - so that trading for him will require a cost that hurts.

Also: Vin's passing makes Don Orsillo the best play-by-play commentator in baseball. Whichever executive at FSG or NESN refused to pay him is a goddamn moron.
 

DeadlySplitter

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You don't attach Whitlock to get out of Sale's contract. Sale has 2 more years and payroll opens up this offseason - they will stick with him (partially because they have no choice, partially because something good should still be in that lanky body of his...).

If you really want to move off Sale I'd think 1-2 helium-inflated prospects Chaim has internally evaluated as likely busts, like Nick Yorke (although he's had a great Arizona Fall League last I checked) and Brandon Walter. But really, does that sound like Chaim's style?

edit: one more nuclear option I can’t rule out yet… Mookie trade redux: Devers and Sale to, say, the Mets.
 

OCD SS

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That would be Woodruff or Burnes, right? Not both?
Which would you prefer? Which is more realistic?
Getting both allows for a minimum of 2
Straight years of Deep Throat jokes in the game threads.

Is there any indication that the Padres would even consider dealing Tatis? That would be fascinating and they would have to highly motivated to sell him off at this point, which should give any trade partner pause. After several surgeries to his wrist and shoulder, I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to absorb his contract with hour a sense of his health. OTOH, if he can play RF in Fenway…

That and his antics & demonstrations would cause CHB’s head to explode, which you’d have to add into the value of the trade.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

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Reiterating from the FA thread, I'd love to see to see the Sox kick the tires on a Yelich + Woodruff/Burnes trade.
I like this…. But in the other thread you suggested Houck/Whitlock and Casas which is way overpaying. Talking Duran, Dalbec and Crawford evens this out more….
Unless Milwaukee is eating a lot of Yelich’s salary
 

Daniel_Son

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I like this…. But in the other thread you suggested Houck/Whitlock and Casas which is way overpaying. Talking Duran, Dalbec and Crawford evens this out more….
Unless Milwaukee is eating a lot of Yelich’s salary
Yeah, you're right. Looking at my previous proposal now, it's too much. I'd start with Houck + Duran + lottery ticket and see where that gets us.
 

ElcaballitoMVP

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Getting both allows for a minimum of 2
Straight years of Deep Throat jokes in the game threads.

Is there any indication that the Padres would even consider dealing Tatis? That would be fascinating and they would have to highly motivated to sell him off at this point, which should give any trade partner pause. After several surgeries to his wrist and shoulder, I think it would be nearly impossible for anyone to absorb his contract with hour a sense of his health. OTOH, if he can play RF in Fenway…

That and his antics & demonstrations would cause CHB’s head to explode, which you’d have to add into the value of the trade.
I very much doubt it mainly because after his injuries and PED suspension his value is down. Plus his backloaded contract runs through 2034 (possibly to '36) which includes a full no trade clause until '28 and I think the Padres view him as the missing piece to the lineup that almost went to the World Series this year. That no trade clause could be an issue if he doesn't want to move from San Diego to Boston.

IMO Kim is the much more realistic target here. The Padres need to keep their payroll somewhat in check. The owner has opened his checkbook the past few years, but there is a limit there. A trade that included someone like Arroyo might work for them. He's not nearly as gifted defensively, but he's cheaper and can hit when he's healthy. Something like Schreiber/Houck and Arroyo for Kim might work, maybe throw in another lower level prospect to help restock their depleted system. Cronenworth and Arroyo have played some SS in case of a Tatis injury (albeit not very well). I'd rather resign X, but this is definitely something I'd look into if they don't.
 

Max Power

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What I've noticed from looking at every roster, is that most of the bad teams have sold off just about everything of value, or just have terrible players (like the Royals, Tigers, Nationals and Reds).
This is a real problem for anyone trying to get help in the trade market. The days of A-Rod on a bad Rangers team or Stanton with a bad Marlins team are gone. Of the top 20 hitters in OPS last season, the only ones on teams with losing records are one member of the Red Sox, two Angels, and one Ranger having a fluke season. And all three are looking to add talent this offseason, not trade it away.

So the free agent hitters aren't a match for the Red Sox needs and the trade market is barren. I don't see how the team gets much better other than hoping for improved performance for those already under control.
 

effectivelywild

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The local outlets have it that the Yanks will go for Kim Hasung, the Golden Globe candidate & a Korean Brock Holt
Let's do them one better: Kevin Costner, Academy award winner and Caucasian Shohei Ohtani (if we combine Bull Durham and For the Love of the Game)
 

chawson

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As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Pivetta (edit)
SP5 - Hill
SP6 - Bello
SP7/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
 
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ponch73

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As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Hill
SP5 - Bello
SP6/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
You're hired! Chaim will be clearing out his office by the end of the day.
 

Daniel_Son

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May 25, 2021
993
San Diego
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Hill
SP5 - Bello
SP6/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
First off - fantastic post. This is exactly why I joined the site.

As much as I'd love to see Ohtani in Boston, doesn't that lineup seem a little light? I mean Verdugo would still be our best offensive outfielder. I really hope Hernandez can be closer to 2021 than 2022, but there's no guarantee of that (especially given that '21 was largely powered by a second half in which he hit .361/.472/.832, which is so far outside of his career norm that I don't think it's predictive). And Kelenic, while a good defender, posted a 55 OPS+ this year. He's only 22, so maybe he turns it around, but outside of Verdugo, that outfield is built on a hope and a prayer.

The infield isn't much better either, really. You've got Rendon, who oscillates between injured and just plain bad, manning a position he's played just once since 2015. Casas, who may have an All-Star breakout or turn into Dalbec 2.0. Plus Devers and Bogaerts. I just fail to see how that team is any better outside of adding Ohtani - which, as we've seen in LA, isn't enough to be a contender.
 

Sandy Leon Trotsky

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 11, 2007
4,624
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Hill
SP5 - Bello
SP6/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
I realize this is the thread for crazy trade proposals but this is far, far beyond even a slight realistic chance. It’s a mega-deal which I suspect are things of the past.
 

Wallball Tingle

union soap
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
2,341
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Hill
SP5 - Bello
SP6/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
I just want to say calling Kelenic someone with superstar upside seems suspect. Granted his AAA numbers were pretty good, but as someone who watched the Mariners a fair bit of the second half of this season, he seemed overmatched (his only redeeming factor
that he can sometimes pop one), -2.0 WAR over 558 PA in the majors across 2021 and 2022.
 

Brohamer of the Gods

Well-Known Member
Silver Supporter
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
3,301
Warwick, RI
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Hill
SP5 - Bello
SP6/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
What happened to Pivetta?
 

Manramsclan

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
3,189
Good lord, Kim is sublime. Yeah, don't think the Padres would possibly let go of him.
He was only slightly above average offensively though this season (107 OPS+). He made some swing changes in the offseason to catch up to higher velocity but I don't think there is much more improvement there.

San Diego infield is so stacked that there is a growing sense that Tatis will play the outfield at least part-time if not full time. First Base is the only place they need an upgrade, so I think the conversation would start with Casas. That's not a trade I would even consider.

The Sean Murphy/Laureano for Dalbec/Houck or something like that seems more likely (queue someone using the trade value calculator to dispute this deal). The fact of the matter is these players are ARB eligible and the A's don't want to pay anyone. They will take less than market deals or a few lottery tickets just to avoid paying people.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,257
I realize this is the thread for crazy trade proposals but this is far, far beyond even a slight realistic chance. It’s a mega-deal which I suspect are things of the past.
Yeah, I mean I'm not calling it a prediction.

Let's boil it down to this: Which player on his bad contract would you rather have?

Christian Yelich at 6/$162.5 million (age 31-36 seasons) or
Anthony Rendon at 4/$154.3 million (age 33-36 seasons)


I think most would take Yelich. I'm suggesting it could be closer than we think. IYI, here's my line of thought:

Yelich has been a pretty so-so player over his last 1400 PA, has chronic back issues and a whiff of a cheating scandal behind his elite years. Rendon was elite in a shortened 2020, then has been so-so over his last 450 PA while battling acute injuries which required surgery (hip, wrist, though he also had neck issues).

Neither is a trade target on their own. They'd each serve as ballast for deals involving other stars — Woodruff or Burnes on the Brewers and Ohtani on the Angels.

Now let's look at their teams' situations. The Brewers have been solid for a few years and are contenders in the AL Central. I'm sure they have some measure of regret about the Yelich deal, but I'm not sure why they would trade Woodruff or Burnes in order to rid themselves of it, especially while they're contending. OTOH, the Angels are not contenders and are currently up for sale, their ownership has alienated Rendon and they are widely expected to trade Ohtani while they can still get something from him. (Note: I think both teams would pitch in money to help cover those massive contracts in any trade, as we did with David Price.)

If you start with the operating assumption, which I share, that Ohtani is worth acquiring and extending, then our ability to absorb Rendon's contract is a plus — especially given the particulars of LAA's situation. But Rendon is a third baseman, where we have a franchise player we also want to keep, and you can't put him at DH if you're also acquiring Ohtani. It's conceivable, however, that he could play second base — in fact, he might have to, because he has a muscle strain in the back of his throwing arm. He's played a full season's worth of games at 2B at the major-league level, but that was 7-8 years ago. If he can't do it, then Arroyo (and maybe Moore, in a SEA deal) are capable second basemen.

We're also in another dilemma! Most of us want to keep Bogaerts, and Bogaerts (probably) wants to stay. But I don't think any party believes he can stay a shortstop for the length of his contract, and besides, we've got an exciting one ready for full-time duty by 2026. Bogaerts is also extremely close with the franchise 3B we also want to stay, which means keeping one likely helps our ability to keep the other, which means 3B isn't a place he can move to when the time comes. But second base could be, if it weren't for...

...our incumbent second baseman most people thought we signed as shortstop insurance, but who can't really play shortstop anymore. That guy is an excellent player who had a tough year. We'd be happy to keep him around if we didn't need to logical place to slide Xander Bogaerts. Luckily, there's another team we signed him out from under — with a GM who makes more trades than anyone — who seems like they'd be quite happy to take him off our hands.
 
Last edited:

Minneapolis Millers

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
4,305
Twin Cities
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Pivetta (edit)
SP5 - Hill
SP6 - Bello
SP7/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
I love the creativity, but if the main thrust here is getting Ohtani and the upside of Kelenic while swapping Story for Rendon and extending Raffy and X, thereby blocking Mayer, why not just trade Mayer (and other prospects and marginal MLB pitching) for Ohtani and call it a day? Sign someone else to play RF.

For LAAAAA, I don’t think they’re getting enough salary relief under your scenario to justify not getting TOP SHELF prospect(s). Too many people think Sale is cooked to call him CY caliber and a good deal at his salary (although I disagree and think he’s still capable of being a #1/2).
 
Last edited:

Petagine in a Bottle

Member
SoSH Member
Jan 13, 2021
6,606
If the Sox make $1b in salary commitments, I hope they come out of it with a better #4 than Rich Hill…and I’d expect that if the Angels move Ohtani, they’d want at least one top prospect. It’s fun to dream, of course and an interesting thought experiment. I think the big challenge here is trying to figure out ways to assume salary that makes sense for the other team. What’s the point of freeing up salary by dumping a Ohtani / Rendon or Burnes / Yelich if guys like Nimmo are getting $25M per? Those teams will quickly end up in the same situation just with different names.
 

grimshaw

Member
SoSH Member
May 16, 2007
3,952
Portland
This is a real problem for anyone trying to get help in the trade market. The days of A-Rod on a bad Rangers team or Stanton with a bad Marlins team are gone. Of the top 20 hitters in OPS last season, the only ones on teams with losing records are one member of the Red Sox, two Angels, and one Ranger having a fluke season. And all three are looking to add talent this offseason, not trade it away.

So the free agent hitters aren't a match for the Red Sox needs and the trade market is barren. I don't see how the team gets much better other than hoping for improved performance for those already under control.
Pretty much this. Or they could try and find a really good NL team with redundancies and help replenish their farm system. I had mentioned d'Arnaud previously because of Contreras emerging, but even then the Braves are probably ok with two great catchers since they can keep both fresh.

Or the international market. But ya, I think they are stuck with re-signing guys, pushing hard for one of the good free agents, and hoping minor leaguers arrive ahead of schedule.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,257
I love the creativity, but if the main thrust here is getting Ohtani and the upside of Kelenic while swapping Story for Rendon and extending Raffy and D, thereby blocking Mayer, why not just trade Mayer (and other prospects and marginal MLB pitching) for Ohtani and call it a day? Sign someone else to play RF.
This wouldn't block Mayer, is my thinking in this hypothetical.

Here's the baseline 2026 lineup:

Ohtani - DH
Bogaerts - 2B
Devers - 3B
Casas - 1B
Yorke - LF
Mayer - SS
Bleis - CF
Kelenic - RF
Catcher - C

Bench: Rendon (FA 2027), Paulino, Abreu, et al.
 

Ale Xander

doesn't like to back it in
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2013
55,687
The Red Sox should offer budding superstar Alex Verdugo, and 2 up and coming prospects, C Connor Wong and MIF Jeter “Suffolk” Downs to the Dodgers for aging defensive specialist OF Mookie Betts
 

ehaz

Member
SoSH Member
Sep 30, 2007
4,077
Fuck it let's do a Dombrowski.

Trade: Marcelo Mayer, Wikelman Gonzalez, Jeter Downs, and Matt Barnes for: Corbin Burnes and Hunter Renfroe.

No Yelich contract on the books and you don't give up all your depth, but instead have to give up the jewel of the farm system + a nice low minors lottery ticket in Gonzalez. Brewers dump about ~$24M in salary for two guys that will not be on the next great Milwaukee team and get maybe the best centerpiece available for Burnes.

Trade: Ceddanne Rafaela, Bryan Mata, and Blaze Jordan for: Sean Murphy.

Extend: Bogaerts 7/$175, Devers 9/$270, Eovaldi 2/$30,
Sign: Zach Eflin 3/$27

CF - Hernandez
3B - Devers
SS - Xander
2B - Story
1B - Casas
C - Murphy
LF - Verdugo
RF - Renfroe
DH - Hosmer

Bench options: McGuire/Wong, Refsnyder, Duran, Arroyo, Cordero/Dalbec.

SP1 - Corbin Burnes
SP2 - Chris Sale
SP3 - Nathan Eovaldi
SP4 - Nick Pivetta
SP5 - Brayan Bello

Bullpen: Whitlock, Houck, Eflin, Schreiber, Taylor, Brasier

I think that puts them around ~$250M (in between the 1st and 2nd luxury tax thresholds).
 

GB5

lurker
Aug 26, 2013
438
Ohtani is just about the best player in baseball. A true unicorn. One 40 man spot for an ace # 1 pitcher who happens to be a 35 HR/900 OPS hitter. He also is a marketing dream. There is so much value to him on and off the field. I don’t care if you are taking on Rendon’s deal, your package going back has Mayer and Casas in it..to begin with.
 

JM3

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 14, 2019
1,975
As an alternative to the Yelich+Woodruff/Burnes ideas, here's an equally bold scenario:

Trade 1
SEA gets Trevor Story, Connor Seabold and Jarren Duran
BOS gets Marco Gonzales, Evan White, Dylan Moore, Diego Castillo and Jarred Kelenic

Why it could happen: Seattle tried hard for Story last year but couldn't sell him on a switch to 3B. Now, after their GM declared an intention to sign a SS and convert him to 2B, Story at 5/$115 is more affordable to them than luring any of XB/TT/CC/DS to make that switch. They get rid of $11.5M in deadweight AAV in Gonzales/White. They give up Moore, who is redundant with Story's arrival, and Kelenic, a stalled prospect who with the emergence of Julio Rodriguez has been pushed to a corner, where they have a surplus (Lewis, Trammell, Winker, Haggerty, Marlowe -- plus Duran in this trade).

For Boston, It gives us a young outfielder with superstar upside (Kelenic), clears out 2B for a Bogaerts slide in 2025 and some great infield depth to cover the position in the meantime (Arroyo, Moore). But in the short-term, the 2B position will soon be occupied...


Trade 2
LAA gets Chris Sale, Marco Gonzales (via SEA), Bobby Dalbec, Matthew Lugo, Bryan Mata, David Hamilton and Ceddanne Rafaela
BOS gets Shohei Ohtani, Anthony Rendon, Aaron Loup, Jose Suarez and ~$70M (of Rendon's 4/$152 contract)

Why it could happen: This is an 11-player deal, which IIRC has happened maybe once in the last 10 years. But Ohtani is quite likely to be moved this offseason and there's no modern precedent for what that trade looks like. This proposal gets LAA ownership out of much of the Rendon deal while still getting them a Cy Young candidate and a solid prospect package in return — pretty decent for a team with one of the worst farm systems in MLB. They'd get Sale, a 1B/DH platoon partner with upside to pair with Walsh, four prospects (who would become the 3rd, 7th, 8th and 17th best in their system, per Fangraphs), two years of a relatively cheap innings eater in Gonzales and a ton of salary relief. It's even possible they get a vintage year out of Sale and get to move him for something valuable again next year.

For this to make sense for Boston, both parties would have to like the idea of signing Ohtani to a massive extension. Rendon would also need to want out of Anaheim so badly that he'd consider playing 2B again — which is probably the most speculative part of this idea. But a switch to 2B makes some sense, because he (too) has had issues with his throwing arm and other injuries. I'm bullish on a rebound from him at the plate, where I don't think he's done as one of the game's great hitters for contact and power.

On the pitching side, Ohtani allows us to move to a 6-man rotation, which helps ease in Whitlock, Bello and Hill (and protect Eovaldi, if he resigns). That'll be necessary to keep all those arms fresh for an October run.


Extensions: Ohtani (?), Bogaerts (6/$160), Devers (9/$270)
Signings: Eovaldi (2/$30), Hill (1/$6), Rafael Montero (3/$24).

That team looks like this:

1. Ohtani - DH
2. Bogaerts - SS
3. Devers - 3B
4. Rendon - 2B
5. Casas - 1B
6. Hernández - CF
7. Verdugo - LF
8. Kelenic - RF
9. McGuire - C

A pretty-left handed lineup, but our bench options under contract before other moves are Moore (R), Wong (R), Arroyo (R), Refsnyder (R), Hosmer (L) and Cordero (L) [Minors 40-man depth: Valdez (L), Abreu (L), White (R), R. Hernandez (R), C. Hamilton (R), Downs (R), Paulino (L)]

SP1 - Ohtani
SP2 - Eovaldi
SP3 - Whitlock
SP4 - Pivetta (edit)
SP5 - Hill
SP6 - Bello
SP7/LR - Suarez

Bullpen: Montero, Schreiber, Houck, Castillo, Barnes, Loup, Brasier, Taylor, Kelly [Minors 40-man depth: Winckowski, Crawford, Ort, Altavilla, Murphy, Walter, McGee, Ward, Reed, German, Gonzalez]

That team looks to cost around $215-225 million including arb estimates and buyouts — though that's admittedly hard to estimate. I don't know what Bogaerts signs for and a lot of money would change hands in those deals. I'm assuming LAA chips in about one-third of the Rendon contract in addition to taking Sale, and also have us assuming Loup's $8.5M, but we could offer to take Tepera's 1/$7M too if helps.

To summarize: Using some of our prospect depth to facilitate a complicated swap of Sale and Story for Ohtani, Rendon and Kelenic would allow us to capitalize on a bunch of 40-man eligible prospects we'd likely otherwise lose in the Rule 5 draft, get a plus-defensive right fielder with star upside, give us insurance against Devers leaving, open up 2B a little sooner as an option for Bogaerts when Mayer arrives, and most importantly, bring us Ohtani.
I mean, I love this sort of stuff & thoroughly enjoy the thought experiment.

But in this scenario wtf do the Angels want with Chris Sale? Dumping Rendon's salary to pay it to Sale for the privilege of giving away Ohtani seems insane & not helpful for what i assume would have to be at least a soft reset.

Rendon costs $38m. Sale + 33% of Rendon's contract costs $40m. So the Angels are only actually saving $ in '25 & '26 ($25m per year).

Also, Ohtani being so excited to sign a contract with the Red Sox that he forgoes free agency & doesn't want to at least test drive the org for a while 1st, when the whole thing 5 years ago was about west coast & smaller market, seems unlikely.
 
Dec 8, 2017
47
Make QO to Eovaldi and Wacha, I'm guessing one accepts, and I'm guessing Paxton exercises his $4M option. Sign Strahm.

Sign Bogaerts for $25M per for 6/7 years, Devers for $30M for 9/10 years.

Sign Japanese FA SP Kodai Senga for $15M per for 5 years.

Cubs and Pirates are both looking for 1B, so offer Hosmer to both, for:

Cubs - Adrian Sampson, SP, FIP (3.79, 5.72, 5.69) [last three seasons, most recent first]
Pirates - Johan Oviedo, SP, FIP (3.74, 5.27, 5.30)

Each is projected to be in their team's rotation. Then flip that pitcher to the Brewers for Yelich, Burnes/Woodruff (ask for Burnes, accept Woodruff), and $10M (Sox "lose" this trade in the trade sim by a ton, but I'm not sure I buy Yelich's huge negative value, yet).

Starters
Sale
Burnes/Woodruff
Senga
Wacha/Eovaldi
Pivetta
Bello (can work out of 'pen initially, a la Earl Weaver)
Paxton (can work out of 'pen initially)
Crawford
Winckowski
Seabold
Hill (2nd half?)

Bullpen
Houck
Whitlock
Schreiber
Barnes
Brasier
Strahm
Taylor

C - McGuire
1B - Casas
2B - Story
SS - Bogaerts
3B - Devers
LF - Verdugo
CF - Hernandez
RF - Yelich

Bench - Wong, Dalbec, Arroyo, Refsnyder, Duran, Cordero

By my calc, that comes to around $215M. I think it strengthens and improves depth for rotation and 'pen for inevitable injuries. Better production than '22 at 1B and RF. But, as always, it comes down to health. Have at it.
 
Last edited:

opes

Doctor Tongue
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Ohtani trade would far eclipse the Soto deal. That said, I would give LAA a piece of paper and tell them to write down who they want. While we wouldnt get fleeced, for gods sake we would get Ohtani, but the cost would be super high. Mayer, Casas, Mata, Rafaela would be just the start. Re-sign Nick Punto and I think that will seal the deal. We should have a thread just on what it would take to get Ohtani.
 

Max Power

thai good. you like shirt?
SoSH Member
Jul 20, 2005
6,373
Boston, MA
Ohtani trade would far eclipse the Soto deal. That said, I would give LAA a piece of paper and tell them to write down who they want. While we wouldnt get fleeced, for gods sake we would get Ohtani, but the cost would be super high. Mayer, Casas, Mata, Rafaela would be just the start. Re-sign Nick Punto and I think that will seal the deal. We should have a thread just on what it would take to get Ohtani.
For one year at $30 million? No team would be willing to pay the price that the Angels would have to ask to avoid the bad press.