If Brogdan had shot and made the shot you would not say anything. It’s outcome bias.
Game 1 vs. Philadelphia—Just Win
- Thread starter RedOctober3829
- Start date
A lot of individual failures get magnified in a loss that would otherwise be forgotten.
A lot has rightfully been said about the lack of defensive intensity. It’s more that their overall focus was absent. 16 turnovers to 6 on your home floor. 6 from your starting point guard.
So far this post-season this team has trouble generating that focus, that killer instinct where every possession matters.
It’s not too late so hopefully they do find it.
A lot has rightfully been said about the lack of defensive intensity. It’s more that their overall focus was absent. 16 turnovers to 6 on your home floor. 6 from your starting point guard.
So far this post-season this team has trouble generating that focus, that killer instinct where every possession matters.
It’s not too late so hopefully they do find it.
What’s really funny is that Jordan took a TON of shit for his flameouts against the Pistons in the playoffs when he was around Tatum’s age. I remember Game 5 against the Pistons in ‘89 when he took only 8 shots.
When did Tatum get the ball?
I think the main problem is that Smart started both of the last two possessions.. he's too careless with he ball to be a PG and I don't think he should be out there for possessions when you need points.. it allows the other team to sag off him and put two players on Tatum or Brown.. happens all the time. Even with the mistake today Brogdon and White should be out there.. or a better 3 point shooter and let Tatum or Brown initiate.. there's not much more or less of a chance of TO and you're into your offense a lot sooner in the possession and you have 3 point shooters at every position.
I agree with this generally, but he got the ball off to a good situation to Brown with plenty of time left and then he got the ball back from Brown in a pretty bad position. Getting it to Tatum quickly, which he did, was probably the best option for him at that point.
What infuriates you about how other posters treat Tatum is exactly how you treat Smart
Who cares when Tatum gets the ball?!!!
He had an open look with time on the shot clock!!!
He doesn't need a mailed invitation to carry this team to victory.
Go do it!
I'd certainly have been happier if Brogdon had just taken the jumper there, but that's not really his game, and Tatum needs to know THAT too. Brogdon dribbling was the kiss of death on that possession.
It's not outcome bias. Tatum should have shot the ball. If Brogdon had somehow made a contested three pointer it would have been wonderful, but still the wrong play by Tatum. In real time I couldn't believe he passed up that shot.
I still think Tatum was awesome during the game, so this isn't me blaming the loss on him. He was magnificent all game long. But he made the wrong play at the end. There's no real argument to be made otherwise.
3.6 seconds left. So not too much time, but enough for a guy like Tatum to know that unless someone else is wide open, he's taking the last shot.
And he made a sweet move to fake out Maxey, which let him get by and get into space for an open jumper. And he turned it down and gave Brogdon a grenade.
Fair.
There were plenty of reasons why they lost, but that was probably the highest leverage possession of the game so it makes sense to analyze.
Agreed. Nor was it the refs. It was Boston's absolutely atrocious defense combined with slowing the pace of the offense, when a fast pace was absolutely decimating Philly all night long.
D White was also inexplicably MIA tonight. That’s unlikely to happen again.
I think the disappointment is that we expect this team to play like favorites, to have banked a ton of experience that they apply now, and to steamroll their way to the finals if not the championship, particularly when the other team is flawed or has a key player injured.
But they have not found that gear yet, just more growing pains, so this will be a more excruciating run.
I think the disappointment is that we expect this team to play like favorites, to have banked a ton of experience that they apply now, and to steamroll their way to the finals if not the championship, particularly when the other team is flawed or has a key player injured.
But they have not found that gear yet, just more growing pains, so this will be a more excruciating run.
And then he lost to the Pistons again the following year. Didn’t make the Finals until age 27. Tatum did it at 24.
And I'm not disagreeing with this. There were several critical errors at the end there, and Tatum made one.
The issue is some posters feel the need to psychoanalyze him and tell us he was "scared" or some such nonsense backed up by their eye test and many years of watching 80s Celtics games. He doesn't have blood on his hands at the end of games! He's safe around my family! It's almost hilarious at this point and so predictable. It also flies against what Tatum has actually done in the playoffs and in his career, so it's hard not to mock. Someone posted a list of three players who "can do what Tatum can't" - and it was Curry, Butler, and Harden for god's sake. Embarrassing even for a game thread.
Smart got the ball back from Brown with 7 seconds on the clock. It wasn't some do or die moment, they had time, they just fucked it up.
He seemed like Ime's defensive coordinator, but I also wouldn't underrate Ime's ability to get the team to try hard.
View: https://twitter.com/BradeauxNBA/status/1650843529302663170
Only two made threes in the second half and one was the rather ridiculous JB pull up from four feet behind the line.
They lost for a multitude of reasons. Turnovers hurt.
IMO, the main reason why they lost is that the defensive strategy is shit and there were no adjustments. Consistently played drop coverage off of screens allowed Harden (and Maxey) to step into 3’s and get a rhythm. The “switch everything” D allowed Harden/Maxey/Melton/Harris to continually hunt Al and abuse himself.
They doubled Harden at incredibly inopportune times but didn’t double at the end.
Basically, the defensive scheme relies heavily on Horford all game and he just can’t handle that at this age. He gets toasted with regularity
More than an eye test...let's play with the stats (sorry for reposting - but explain this):
In the last two seasons (reg/post) with 5 minutes left in the 4th quarter or in overtime and trailing by 1-5 points, Jayson Tatum has made just 1 of 24 3PT shots.
That’s 4.2%, the worst in the NBA among qualifiers.
Next worst is 12%.
Average is 30.7%.
Like ffs
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar-post-20230225-tatum-adds-to-historic-clutch-resume-with-game-winner-in-philly
From nba.com.
Since entering the league in 2017-18, Tatum has made a league-leading 11 game-tying or go-ahead shots (in the regular season and playoffs combined) inside the final five seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime.
Even more impressive is how efficient Tatum has been in the clutch. He is currently the only player in NBA history to shoot at least 50 percent on game-tying or go-ahead shots with less than 24 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter among players with at least 25 such attempts. After his latest game-winner, he’s 13-of-26 on such shots – 15-of-29 including the playoffs.
But ya, shoulda had butler or curry or durant - not the guy leading the fucking league for 6 years
https://www.nba.com/celtics/news/sidebar-post-20230225-tatum-adds-to-historic-clutch-resume-with-game-winner-in-philly
From nba.com.
Since entering the league in 2017-18, Tatum has made a league-leading 11 game-tying or go-ahead shots (in the regular season and playoffs combined) inside the final five seconds of the fourth quarter and overtime.
Even more impressive is how efficient Tatum has been in the clutch. He is currently the only player in NBA history to shoot at least 50 percent on game-tying or go-ahead shots with less than 24 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter among players with at least 25 such attempts. After his latest game-winner, he’s 13-of-26 on such shots – 15-of-29 including the playoffs.
But ya, shoulda had butler or curry or durant - not the guy leading the fucking league for 6 years
To be fair to Al.. other than that play.. he was one of their best defensive players tonight.. although that may not be saying much.
I think we both know this team has been Charmin soft all season, regardless of whom is out there. I didn't get a time stamp, but late in the 4th Harden made one little shimmy and JB jumped sideways and gave Harden a wide-ass berth towards the bucket for a layup. With this spacing, Harden could have done a quick up-fake, gotten by any defender out there, then made a running floater from the FT before the closest defender could even contest. Don't blame Al alone, the defensive struggles for this team run very deep. This ain't Ime's defense of a year ago, that's for damn sure.
I watch a ton of Celtic games and I’m not involved in this Tatum dust up….but I have to say that those stats are stunning and don’t really match the eye test
We can cherry pick stats all night...
But if you want Tatum leading your team in the 4th Quarter of an NBA playoff game, over Butler, Curry or Durant --- because a row of data on an EXCEL spreadsheet tells you so --- than this debate is over for me.
Oh, I'm not blaming Al.
I'm blaming Coach Joe.
Al should not be in that position, and he most certainly should not be in that position over and over and over and over again during the course of a 30 minute night, including the last 8.5 consecutive minutes of the game.
It's not the right matchup, and everyone, including James fucking Harden most importantly, knows it. It's inexplicable. IMO, he probably shouldn't even be in the game at that point, when Philly is coming out of a timeout with fucking PJ Tucker playing the 5. Put White back in there for Al, go small...Do something.
Just can’t get over the fact that this team is probably flexing on the league this year had Ime not done…whatever it is he did.
Yeah.. like how Curry carried the Warriors to a win in game one of their playoff series
Got a cite? This yt vid literally shows
More than ONE
Also basket drives do count you understand? Like one tonite around 30s
View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bu_C4RDUXKg
Yep, it's all about Excel spreadsheets. Do you not remember this, or do you not watch much basketball?
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY4pOQEdGlw
Oh boy, I don’t know about that. To my (very) untrained eye the best defenders tonight were Tatum and Smart….everyone else kind of sucked.
Honestly, Brogdan is just bad defensively. The playoffs are shining more of a light on it but it’s not good. Brown and White were as bad defensively as i can ever remember either of them being. TimeLord…I don’t even know. It’s depressing to think about the regression so I won’t even go there
I thought the problem was he was scared? So now, he's obviously not since he takes a bunch of those shots, right?
And now you've subbed out Harden for Durant in your example - so Harden's inclusion originally even though he's been a playoff choker is recency (tonight) bias?
edit: beaten on the video posted above
Meanwhile, you cherry pick the stat above. I just wonder why the cutoff was trailing 1 to 5 points, and not to ahead by 3 points which are just as pressure-packed IMO.
I hope Joe shows the refs the 100 or so times that Tucker set moving screens to force those switches or to get some of those wide open threes... other than the bad defense I think him being allowed to take out Harden's or Maxey's defender was pretty huge.
On this we can agree. Why not jump out at Harden with a double-team? So the Sixers get a layup in the worst case scenario, that is better than a three-pointer in that spot. It would put you down one and still able to foul and keep it a one-possession game.
This game really depressed me but I somehow feel the Celtics will win the next 4 straight whether Embed plays or not. Sixers had a ridiculously good game and it still took a questionable foul/three point play and a horrible pass to give them the win.
Al had at least three blocks in the third and fourth.. including forcing Harden into an offensive foul.. It was a low bar to begin with since I thought the D tonite was obviously not that great.
I'm still numb to how you can go 74% in the first half, be at home, have the opponent not have their best player, and lose the game.
I’m not even touching that stuff (or getting into scared to shoot or whatever). I just would have guessed that Tatum was middle of the pack with those specific stats
