Felger and Mazz - Creating False Naratives one day at a time
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The line for the game has been a topic all week. They think the Colts are the 2008 Lions and cannot fathom how the Pats aren't five-touchdown favorites. Or something.PeaceSignMoose said:
They disagree about Luck being on Brady's level right now. Felger thinks they are equal right now... It got very heated with Felger calling Gasper a Member of the boo hoo Brady crowd & a Pats BoBo. He then said Gasper was bring a baby. Gasper held his own pointed out that he was calm and Felger was the one turning red and acting like a baby and that his retort whenever anyone disagrees with him is to call them a homer, etc.riboflav said:
it was definitely an entertaining argument
Ok. The Homebrew period of thou shall not comment on F&M following a Patriots' win because it shows that you don't know how to truly celebrate and enjoy a win is officially OVER!!!!
Let's get to this week's talking points:
1. Pats peaking early
2. Gronk will not play in the playoffs due to injury
3. This is nice but matters not if they don't win the SB
4. Gave up 20 on D
5. Colts quit - See: Troy Brown and Ty Law (AKA Felger Youth)
6. Teams intimidated by the uniform not by the personnel
7. GB best team in NFL. Good luck winning there until you do then they become a tomato can.
8. Patriots really do suck.
EDIT: Almost forgot... Brazil sucks. Shaving sucks. Having your own car sucks.
Carry on.
Let's get to this week's talking points:
1. Pats peaking early
2. Gronk will not play in the playoffs due to injury
3. This is nice but matters not if they don't win the SB
4. Gave up 20 on D
5. Colts quit - See: Troy Brown and Ty Law (AKA Felger Youth)
6. Teams intimidated by the uniform not by the personnel
7. GB best team in NFL. Good luck winning there until you do then they become a tomato can.
8. Patriots really do suck.
EDIT: Almost forgot... Brazil sucks. Shaving sucks. Having your own car sucks.
Carry on.
Don't forget
9) Brady has to be pissed because of all those running plays called. The Pats sure want to keep Brady's stats down so they don't have to pay him.
9) Brady has to be pissed because of all those running plays called. The Pats sure want to keep Brady's stats down so they don't have to pay him.
See, you guys don't really listen to Felger and Mazz. The genius of that show (well, at least the genius of Felger) is that he's terrific in building a story line. Today he and Mazz will congratulate the Pats on a job well done, quieting their detractors, etc. On Tuesday Felger plants a seed of doubt, on Wednesday and Thursday he fosters it until that doubt blooms and by Friday it's a big oak tree of "The Pats are completely fucked this weekend!"
They do this every week to every team (not just the Pats).
"That was a great ALCS yesterday! But I wonder what happens when the Red Sox face a good bullpen like St. Louis? I don't know."
"That Game 7 of the Eastern Conference was one for the ages! But I'm worried that the Bruins had to go to seven with a team like Tampa, what's going to happen when they face a team like the Canucks? I don't know."
"That Patriots game was great last night, they proved that they can beat a tough opponent on the road! But was that the anomaly? And what happens in the playoffs, can they get by the AFC Championship Game? They haven't been able to do it recently. I don't know."
They do this every week to every team (not just the Pats).
"That was a great ALCS yesterday! But I wonder what happens when the Red Sox face a good bullpen like St. Louis? I don't know."
"That Game 7 of the Eastern Conference was one for the ages! But I'm worried that the Bruins had to go to seven with a team like Tampa, what's going to happen when they face a team like the Canucks? I don't know."
"That Patriots game was great last night, they proved that they can beat a tough opponent on the road! But was that the anomaly? And what happens in the playoffs, can they get by the AFC Championship Game? They haven't been able to do it recently. I don't know."
There will be no seeds of doubt this week. Jim Caldwell is the Lion's coach. Felger will talk about him standing on the sidelines, mouth agape, all week long. No matter how much anaylsis they do all week, it will always come back to to the fact that Jim Caldwell is the Lions head coach
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
Yeah, none of those things posted above were even remotely likely to be said by them today. Felger really does root for the Patriots and he'll be fired up about a win like that. I agree with you that they always follow that pattern you described, although Matthew Stafford is pretty much the epitome of a QB that Felger will hate, so maybe no such build up this week.
No he doesn't, he's a Packers fan. And he's a Brewers and Bucks fan too, though to lesser degrees. He's a big Bruins fan, but he's not much of a Patriots fan and loves to tweak the ones that are in his audience.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I don't agree, I know he's a Packers fan, but he gets pretty fired up for big Patriots wins. He wants them to win more and he's always on them about not spending for this reason, but he gets pretty into them. He's always tweaking the local media as not being crtical enough and he's on them about spending, but I think he certainly roots for the Patriots to win.
I don't listen to his show so the only thing I know about it is what I read here (which is probably why my talking points are off the mark). But, I would think he wants what's best for business and that would seem to be the Patriots winning 10-14 games a year, making a deep run in the playoffs, and coming up short. There's no way Felger wants the Patriots to become the Celtics of the 90s or the Patriots of the early 90s (minus all the humorous embarrassments). Sure the first season the Patriots win only 6 or 7 games will be good for ratings but if Felger is on the air in a post-Brady, post-BB era of continuous suck that can't be good.
So you don't actually listen to the show at all and post fan fiction about it in length?
Thanks for the contribution.
Thanks for the contribution.
I never get when people say be careful. What do I as a fan have to be careful about?RedOctober3829 said:
Yes, like those 5 times when they went to the Super Bowl and the 3 times when they won it? Agreed, we've seen it before.RedOctober3829 said:
RedOctober3829 said:
Except it isn't (at least since 2007). They've done everything that F&M have begged them to do and have proclaimed they haven't done the last 10 years (even when the Pats truly have, despite F&M lying about them not, like beating a tough team on the road). They've won on the road. They've beat good teams. They've won a game when Brady didn't play well. Their secondary is playing great. Everything F&M want has happened. While I've only heard parts of the show (start of the show and most of the 5:00 hour) they were very reasonable today and they should be commended for it.
As for the earlier discussion on Felger being a fan of the Pats, he is not. He desires and loves it when they come up short in the big game because he can continue to troll them bigtime and put out his hot sportz takes. He does need them to win enough to be respectable every year and I'm sure he roots for them to make the playoffs every year. But he'd rather they lose in the AFC Championship game or Super Bowl than win it because that will blowup his endless bashing of the team and its roster building philosophy. He's admitted on the air before that he'd hate for the Patriots to beat out Denver because he loves Denver's "go for it now" approach and hates the Pat's long term approach to the roster.
RedOctober3829 said:
If Rob Gronkowski is healthy in the playoffs, then no, we haven't seen this before (he was a rookie and not really Gronk yet in 2010, so I'm not counting that). It's not a stretch to say the Patriots would have at least one more ring and two other Super Bowl appearances had he been healthy from 2011 on.
The way Felger set it up yesterday is as follows: the Pats beat Denver soundly, beat a quality opponent on the road (Indy), soundly, they have solid units on both sides of the ball, and have two "elite" players other than Tom Brady healthy and playing at a high level, everything has gone as planned, so now it is "time" for them to win a Super Bowl for the first time in 10 years.
So, there it is. Anything less then hoisting the Lombardi and the season will be labeled a failure. I know some Pats fans feel that way as well, but has to be an element of enjoying the journey as well as worrying about the destination. So much can happen from here on out, injuries being the key in the NFL. Even with win the last two weeks the Pats are still not even 50/50 to win the Super Bowl. Winning Super Bowls is hard. I think it is a shitty standard to hold them to, but on this one Felger is aligned with many Pats fans who view any non-Lombardi season as a failure.
Also one other amazing (at least to me) admission by Tony Mazz on the show yesterday. He claims that after the game against the Bears he felt that the Pats were going to go on a roll and predicted (off the air) that they were going to the Super Bowl. Beetle encouraged him to say in on the air but he didn't because he didn't want to be labeled a "honk" by Felger. So there you have the driving force behind the puddle of suck that is Tony Mazz. Just don't say anything that might get you labeled a "honk" or a homer by your co-host.
So, there it is. Anything less then hoisting the Lombardi and the season will be labeled a failure. I know some Pats fans feel that way as well, but has to be an element of enjoying the journey as well as worrying about the destination. So much can happen from here on out, injuries being the key in the NFL. Even with win the last two weeks the Pats are still not even 50/50 to win the Super Bowl. Winning Super Bowls is hard. I think it is a shitty standard to hold them to, but on this one Felger is aligned with many Pats fans who view any non-Lombardi season as a failure.
Also one other amazing (at least to me) admission by Tony Mazz on the show yesterday. He claims that after the game against the Bears he felt that the Pats were going to go on a roll and predicted (off the air) that they were going to the Super Bowl. Beetle encouraged him to say in on the air but he didn't because he didn't want to be labeled a "honk" by Felger. So there you have the driving force behind the puddle of suck that is Tony Mazz. Just don't say anything that might get you labeled a "honk" or a homer by your co-host.
I've said this before and I think it bears repeating, Tony Mazz has a tough job*. He has to sit next to Mike Felger every day for four hours and have every single word that he says dissected by a guy who will never, ever let things slide. After a while, it gets old arguing semantics day after day after day after day. Ever live with a person who would argue with you over the stupidest things? It's exhausting. At least in that situation you can leave, tell the dude to fuck off or at the worst, punch him in the mouth.
Mazz (who doesn't think well on his feet) has to argue on the air, every day with a guy who thinks really well on his feet and is able to shift goalposts quickly. And there is some sort of radio host code where one guy won't specifically call the other guy on their shit.
* When I say tough job, I mean tough job by media standards.
The reason why Felger and Mazz were so good when they came on was because Mazz would challenge Felger's bullshit. Maybe not all the time, but enough so that it was interesting. And when Mazz would take a time out, Beetle was there to do the heavy lifting. I think that at some point, both of them got arguing with Felger and are just along for the ride now. There's a reason why he's actually pretty decent on the Baseball Reporters every night.
I don't think that this thinking completely excuses Mazz from criticism, he needs to figuratively punch Felger in the mouth once in awhile -- it's part of his job. But, I can understand his rolling over. Felger is remorseless when it comes to driving his point home.
That's a good point. I'd add that Felger does a good job of controlling the show - callers with poor sound quality are dropped instantly, callers aren't allowed to ramble (well, for the most part), he'll interrupt guests to get to a point, into and out of breaks quickly, no stepping on each other. This is a sharp contrast to the old 'EEI and was a welcome change when F&M started.John Marzano Olympic Hero said:
I didn't hear him talk about this but it's funny given that the last time (that i remember) he made a bold prediction on the air, it was about the Bruins in 2011*. "This is the year we have a parade on Causeway street, Mike." It was a running joke that whenever the Bruins won a few that Mazz was putting the cones out on the parade route.Ralphwiggum said:
*3 years without going out on a limb for Tony certainly reinforces the "you're right, Mike" reputation he's gotten
jimv said:
Agreed with the above. He will also allow a ranting caller to go off, even if they are targeting him, until they run out of steam or start repeating themselves (Which usually takes less than a minute).
jimv said:
I think show control had to be one of the things 98.5 went into the station with because across all shows you'll notice they are sticklers for schedule. I remember on WEEI, you'd listen through 10-15 minutes of straight commercials since The Big Show would often just skip breaks and then pile them all at once. Same thing with callers, T&R (who don't actually get callers for some reason), Gresh & Zo (to a lesser extent) and F&M who are Nazi's about it, but they're on-time with breaks, keep callers under control and generally have a solid format for the day.
I'd say Gresh & Zo are by far the worst in terms of keeping callers under control. Their callers mostly suck but they're a midday show, who is actually calling in the middle of the day (who actually calls at all?)?
Holy smokes, we're going to spend another show debating who was at fault for that interception last week?
"Are you one of those guys who always tries to one up everyone else's story?"The Allented Mr Ripley said:
Late to this, but Gasper turning the tables on Felger for calling him a baby -- when it's actually Felger who turns red/mimics peoples voices like a child -- was phenomenal. Felger is really, really good at what he does. But he does act like a little kid not getting his way when certain points are made, and Gasper just cut through his soul with the baby remark.
Felger came at Bedard in a similar fashion today because Bedard defended Brady's decision making on his picks on Sunday night. Felger erupted, basically calling all of Bedard's analysis fraudulent, but Greg didn't fire back like Gasper. It's more fun when they do.
Felger has some Tanguay in him with arguing points. Tanguay just screams his point louder, while Felger mimics people's voices and turns red/gets louder. But it's the same tactic. OH YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN ME, HERE IS MY SAME POINT AGAIN IN MORE ANNOYING FASHION.
Again, I like the show a lot of the times. I work 3-12, so I have it on a decent amount in the background at the office, but Felger is just so childish sometimes.
Felger came at Bedard in a similar fashion today because Bedard defended Brady's decision making on his picks on Sunday night. Felger erupted, basically calling all of Bedard's analysis fraudulent, but Greg didn't fire back like Gasper. It's more fun when they do.
Felger has some Tanguay in him with arguing points. Tanguay just screams his point louder, while Felger mimics people's voices and turns red/gets louder. But it's the same tactic. OH YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY THAN ME, HERE IS MY SAME POINT AGAIN IN MORE ANNOYING FASHION.
Again, I like the show a lot of the times. I work 3-12, so I have it on a decent amount in the background at the office, but Felger is just so childish sometimes.
http://www.csnne.com/video_content_type/gasper-how-similar-year-patriots-team-back-back-super-bowl-winning-teams
4 days later and Felger is still annoyed with Gasper. I love when Felger does that voice, I guess it is his impression of a Patriots "honk."
4 days later and Felger is still annoyed with Gasper. I love when Felger does that voice, I guess it is his impression of a Patriots "honk."
Quiddity said:
This is spot on, totally nails it, specifically the Denver scenario; after the Patriots lost to the Jets in the 2010 playoffs and the Jets advanced to their second strait AFCCG, Felger was orgasmic over it, going on and on about how the Jets have passed the Patriots, the Jets are going for it and are all in, as opposed to the Patriots and their approach of trading down in the draft and their long term approach.
The Jets were the team to beat now in the AFC East, not the Patriots. He glossed over the part about them losing two strait AFCCG's the following week, but why acknowledge that as it does not support his argument.
^And in completely hypocritical fashion, he kills the Pats for "only" making the AFC Championship game year after year (after years of saying that if a team makes the final four in its sport, it is a successful season), yet constantly celebrates it when other teams do so, whether it was the Jets a few years ago, or the Broncos last year.
Alas, after a pretty good day yesterday, Felger nitpicking over every single season of the Pats since 2010 and declaring every opponent they beat tomato cans pretty much did away with any good will yesterday earned.
Alas, after a pretty good day yesterday, Felger nitpicking over every single season of the Pats since 2010 and declaring every opponent they beat tomato cans pretty much did away with any good will yesterday earned.
Quiddity said:
Success is a relative value; one team's achievement is another team's failure.
No one is going to "kill" the Celtics if they win 42 games and a playoff round but get bounced by Cleveland. Why? Because they aren't supposed to be even close to that good.
Think about it for a few minutes and then explain why the Jets high-water mark of the past four decades is a bit different than the standards Patriot fans have for a successful season.
I think the point of the exercise yesterday was to illustrate how this year just may be different since they're playing playoff quality teams as oposed to Tyler Palko and Dan Orlovsky led misfits.I actually thought he was tyring to be positive in regards to this year's time during that segmentQuiddity said:
Nothing will ever be enough for them with the Patriots short of beating the NFC Pro-Bowl team led by an in his prime Joe Montana in the Super Bowl. The goalposts will continue to move either looking forward or trashing what they did in the past to prove it meant nothing.
NickEsasky said:
Wait until next week where if the Pats don't beat the Packers in Green Bay, Sunday's game will mean "nothing".
And in two weeks, if New England does win in Green Bay but doesn't beat San Diego in San Diego then the Green Bay game AND the Indy contests will mean "nothing".
"Mike, they just can't beat a quality road opponent when it matters. It worries me about this team. It really does!"
So this is funny. Mazz tweeted this a couple of days ago:
Over on BSMW, Bruce has posted a rejoinder from one of the boardies there:
I dunno, sums it up pretty nicely. I think that's all of them. They kill them all the time with this crap and then suddenly DEMAND that they be perfect or else they're a FAILURE, MIKE.
Over on BSMW, Bruce has posted a rejoinder from one of the boardies there:
I dunno, sums it up pretty nicely. I think that's all of them. They kill them all the time with this crap and then suddenly DEMAND that they be perfect or else they're a FAILURE, MIKE.
Unfortunately, you understood them wrong. Up until the last couple of weeks, Felger has been beating the 'the teams the Pats have played so far are tomato cans' drum. Now that the Pats have beaten Denver and Indy they can't use that anymore. Yesterday, they went over the last 4 years to show the pats have gone on winning streaks beating all comers each year...and then they didn't win the Superbowl. So they have now moved the goalposts. Beating Denver and Indy means nothing because they have done that it the past and didn't win the superbowl. They are setting the narrative to be only winning the Superbowl matters, and if the Pats dont do that the year was a failure and they suck.steveluck7 said:
"If we are going to have an intelligent conversation about a player's value, let's put parameters around it. I don't think Sandoval is a $20 million player. I'd be more comfortable with him being $18 million psychologically."
Tony, Pablo is projected as a 3.6 win player according to Steamer. 1 win is worth $7 million. Therefore, his worth is $21-$25 million in 2015. That's an intelligent discussion.
Tony, Pablo is projected as a 3.6 win player according to Steamer. 1 win is worth $7 million. Therefore, his worth is $21-$25 million in 2015. That's an intelligent discussion.
It sounds like Tony has no idea who Moncada is. "Is he a Japanese pitcher?"
Awful.
Now, Tony says the Red Sox prospects have flamed out and they've painted themselves into a corner by having to sign free agents.
Awful.
Now, Tony says the Red Sox prospects have flamed out and they've painted themselves into a corner by having to sign free agents.
I loved this show when they first started. Now I only listen to the Cam Neely interview and Greg Bedards' two hours, just because I think Greg is among the best in the business.
They must be paying Greg really well, because it's stunning to me how condescending they are to him, especially Felger. I think some of it is tongue in cheek, but I think each week it bleeds further and further into legit mocking of Greg. I think the low point this week was Felger accusing Bedard of bias in his grading of Andrew Luck because he doesn't like him. Or maybe the ten minutes of screaming at him because he didn't want to blame Brady 100% for his first interception.
Three things made me crazy listening to it, the first two have happened pretty much each week.
1. Felger squealing that Denver is all-in while the Patriots haven't done enough(coincidentally I'm sure, a bit less often the last few weeks) and using as evidence, The Patriots are 14 million under the cap!!!!. Besides this not being true, they may have entered the season around that number, the two sites I follow for this information that I think is fairly accurate has the Patriots at 8 millionish under the cap right now.......and Denver 10 millionish under.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
Takes seconds to look up, is everyone that lazy and/or unwilling to challenge Felger that this can go unchecked all year?
2. Tony makes his point every week that Tom Brady vs the Patriots is going to be an issue this offseason because there's no way Brady will play next year for 7 million dollars. He just won't do it Mike! Those numbers are place holders(place holders would be huge salaries, not small ones Tpny/ Live Revis), no way he's playing for 7 million!!
Tom Brady is making 2 million dollars this year.
http://www.patscap.com/brady.html#brady
Takes seconds to look up. This has been going on for months.
3. This one was more humorous to me than the first two. Greg gave Felger a tiny bit of grief for saying the Jets and Sanchez had passed the Patriots and Felger flipped out whining about how people always throw that in his face. The same Felger who in Bedards' first or second appearance, read an article by Bedard praising Amendola from when the Patriots signed him and shit on him for it.
It's sad to me what this show has become. I think Felger was/could be again, among the best on radio. But he's been unchecked for so long that he's almost a caricature to me now.
They must be paying Greg really well, because it's stunning to me how condescending they are to him, especially Felger. I think some of it is tongue in cheek, but I think each week it bleeds further and further into legit mocking of Greg. I think the low point this week was Felger accusing Bedard of bias in his grading of Andrew Luck because he doesn't like him. Or maybe the ten minutes of screaming at him because he didn't want to blame Brady 100% for his first interception.
Three things made me crazy listening to it, the first two have happened pretty much each week.
1. Felger squealing that Denver is all-in while the Patriots haven't done enough(coincidentally I'm sure, a bit less often the last few weeks) and using as evidence, The Patriots are 14 million under the cap!!!!. Besides this not being true, they may have entered the season around that number, the two sites I follow for this information that I think is fairly accurate has the Patriots at 8 millionish under the cap right now.......and Denver 10 millionish under.
http://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space
https://www.nflpa.com/public-salary-cap-report
Takes seconds to look up, is everyone that lazy and/or unwilling to challenge Felger that this can go unchecked all year?
2. Tony makes his point every week that Tom Brady vs the Patriots is going to be an issue this offseason because there's no way Brady will play next year for 7 million dollars. He just won't do it Mike! Those numbers are place holders(place holders would be huge salaries, not small ones Tpny/ Live Revis), no way he's playing for 7 million!!
Tom Brady is making 2 million dollars this year.
http://www.patscap.com/brady.html#brady
Takes seconds to look up. This has been going on for months.
3. This one was more humorous to me than the first two. Greg gave Felger a tiny bit of grief for saying the Jets and Sanchez had passed the Patriots and Felger flipped out whining about how people always throw that in his face. The same Felger who in Bedards' first or second appearance, read an article by Bedard praising Amendola from when the Patriots signed him and shit on him for it.
It's sad to me what this show has become. I think Felger was/could be again, among the best on radio. But he's been unchecked for so long that he's almost a caricature to me now.
Good post, mcpickl. Felger's skin has gotten thinner than even Bill Simmons', and the show has suffered for it.
They are giving airtime to Chris Simms right now talking about Tom Brady not being a top-5 QB. Figures these two would give this guy the time of day.
