Mazz just asked if the Patriots made their offense more complicated to impress other coaches rather than to win games. The mind reels.
Sinistas said:The Sox are in the playoffs, Selig put a date on his retirement, and 98.5 just secured the rights to the Celtics...but let's complain some more about Rivera getting a ceremony at Fenway.
I'm done with this show until they make some changes. Enough's enough.
Fact, not opinion.NickEsasky said:For the longest time I avoided sports radio because EEI was garbage. Then TSH came around and I finally had a reason to listen. I listened to T&R on BCN so that was natural, but I really enjoyed the first year of F&M, and DA was pretty good too for a night show. But now F&M have reminded me why I avoided sports radio for so long. They are just as bad as EEI was. Trolling constantly and pandering to the lowest common denominator. Facts will not get in the way of a "hot take!" I don't even bother with them anymore.
I'll still listen to T&R and Adam Jones is all right, but I doubt I go back to F&M.
I haven't listened to F&M for over a month. It's been blissful.HomeBrew1901 said:Fact, not opinion.
Mentioned it above, but I outside of T&R I stopped listening to sports talk radio a few months ago and I'm happier for it.
I thought they responded to that guy by talking about Hernandez and saying you have to be careful with character issue players. Mazz suggesting using the franchise tag on Talib for the next 3-4 years if necessary.Hendu for Kutch said:Yesterday there was a caller complaining about the Patriots letting Talib go after this season. He was bitching about something that hasn't even happened! And they were agreeing with him!
Hendu for Kutch said:I listen to T&R on my way in to work, so when I get back in the car to head home, F&M are on for the 60 seconds or so it takes me to get settled and setup my MP3 player. They don't disappoint, pretty much every day in that short span they're bitching about something, and it's usually stupid. For anyone who listens to the whole show (I can't imagine why you would), do they really keep that pace up the whole time?
Yesterday there was a caller complaining about the Patriots letting Talib go after this season. He was bitching about something that hasn't even happened! And they were agreeing with him!
lostjumper said:Sigh. Listening right now because I was hoping they would talk about the bruins or Sox. Nope. Its 30 minutes of patriots bashing so far, and how evil they are. Right now they are discussing talib. Felger is saying you have to dig super deep with this guy, and be wary of signing him long term while saying they suck at drafting corners so they have to sign him. It's like they are hedging their bets so no matter what happens they can complain...
I agree that Talib needs to be vetted thoroughly before they sign him to any long term deal. But if you had listened to the conversation, you would have heard how they are already setting up the Pats to be criticized.soxfan121 said:
Aqib Talib is less than 12 months past a PED suspension (one more and he's suspended for a year) and less than 18 months past physically assaulting a cab driver while the cab filled with teammates was in motion and less than two years removed from pistol whipping a guy in broad daylight and then firing a gun (along with his mother) at his sister's pedophile boyfriend.
Yeah...the Patriots need to dig super deep on this guy. I love how he's played thus far this season but if I were Bob Kraft, Talib wouldn't get anything but the franchise tag. And they have sucked at drafting corners. I get why the negative tone bothers people but as Felger would say - these are facts, not opinions. The bottom line is that Talib is playing like an All-Pro, deserves to get paid, plays for a team that has had trouble finding reliable CBs and has a past/rap sheet/pending suspension that should make anyone with half-a-brain hesitate before giving him tens of millions of dollars guaranteed. It's a complicated situation that will probably end up with someone complaining.
lostjumper said:No one listens to 4 hours of negativity either. That's what they don't seem to understand. I haven't listened in over 2 months. I had some time at work today, so I was hoping to hear about the sox or bruins, instead it was them bashing the patriots. Remember when they were a breath of fresh air compared to the Big Show? That's the big reason this thread reached 111 pages. Now, they are making every single mistake WEEI made.
1. Celebrity Callers
2. Terrible 3rd chairs - Wiggy
3. One tone the entire show(negative instead of the Big Show's positive)
4. Complete laziness (Mazz)
They are the Big Show all over again. Hopefully the ratings go down and they realize that the right formula was what they did for the first year they were on the air.
In afternoon drive (2 p.m.-6 p.m.), Felger and Massarotti of the Sports Hub was tops with a 12.3, beating runner-up WZLX's programming (7.0) by a significant margin. WEEI's Salk and Holley Show was fifth (5.4).
lexrageorge said:You know what would make a good show? Start with the premise that "they suck at drafting corners". Then take it a step further and explain how many teams similarly suck at drafting CB's, and how guys like Talib are difficult to find in the draft. Perhaps go back and go through the first round DB's drafted over the past few years and discuss how many became Revis's and how many became Wheatley's. Then you have an interesting show to goes a bit above the lowest common denominator of the pack-a-day set.
soxfan121 said:
But not liking something (personally) is not the basis for an argument on whether it's working or will continue to work. Sure, in time TSH will reap what it is sowing like WEEI did. Do you realize how long The Big Show got away with being negativity central on sports while winning the ratings? DECADES.
Thís is a damn good post.Red(s)HawksFan said:Thing is when the Big Show was negativity central, there was good reason. Sports in this town sucked in the 90s. That was pre "tuck rule". Pre "Idiots". Pre "Anything is possible!"
Not to totally defend the cesspool that the Big Show became, but they went all Mary Sunshine about the local teams when they started winning. They didn't maintain the negativity in the face of championship winning and otherwise perennial championship contending teams.
I think that's what's bothersome about the all-negative-all-the-time tack taken by F&M. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging when teams do something right or things are going well. Praising a team for starting 4-0 or finishing with the best record in the league doesn't automatically constitute brown-nosing and pompom waving. I think what most people want in their sports radio is honesty and rationality. Of course, that doesn't move the needle with the lowest common denominator audience that is their bread and butter. I would think most people here understand that, but it doesn't make them wrong to hope for something better.
dcmissle said:Intriguing to me is that nobody here defends them anymore. Soxfan offers more of an explanation than a defense.
There is a remedy. Don't listen. Why subject yourself to the aggravation? I've not listened fori months and am happier for it. This is supposed to be down time fun, not punishment.
Rocco Graziosa said:I don't think he's changed at all. Especially regarding the Patriots. He just really doesn't like them. Like really really really really really REALLY doesn't like them.
He's the same way with the NBA. Sometimes its interesting other times its bad radio. Kind of depends on the topic............Patriots 4-0.......uninteresting. Patriots blown out by the Jets in the first round of the playoffs, or beat by the Giants in the superbowl? VERY interesting.
At least to me.
I can only speak for myself, but I feel like many others have echoed it over the past 6-8 months: Sure Felger always had those negative/cynical/contrarian elements to his on-air persona. The difference is that instead of bringing it out in smaller, focused doses, now its constant, about everything. That's where the change has come.Rocco Graziosa said:I don't think he's changed at all. Especially regarding the Patriots. He just really doesn't like them. Like really really really really really REALLY doesn't like them.
He's the same way with the NBA. Sometimes its interesting other times its bad radio. Kind of depends on the topic............Patriots 4-0.......uninteresting. Patriots blown out by the Jets in the first round of the playoffs, or beat by the Giants in the superbowl? VERY interesting.
At least to me.
Rocco Graziosa said:I don't think he's changed at all. Especially regarding the Patriots. He just really doesn't like them. Like really really really really really REALLY doesn't like them.
He's the same way with the NBA. Sometimes its interesting other times its bad radio. Kind of depends on the topic............Patriots 4-0.......uninteresting. Patriots blown out by the Jets in the first round of the playoffs, or beat by the Giants in the superbowl? VERY interesting.
At least to me.
I don't know if Rocco meant it as literally as you're interpreting it and I know Felger doesn't mean it that way. He's stated many times that 4 hours of tossing bouquets at teams is not interesting radio, and I agree to a point. 4 hours of "Did you see Thompkins lay out for that touchdown?!" would not be too interesting. How long has he chided the "Feety pajama crew" or the "green teamers"?Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
I am godsmacked. How the hell is the bolded uninteresting? How could Felger, a supposed "expert" in sports who landed a gig talking to millions of people about sports for 20 hours a week, think that's boring? They have 85% of last year's receiving corps out of town. The defense (!) is the main cog of the team's wins this year. The have a CB playing at an level not seen since Asante Samuel was here.They are winning while using 3 RBs irregularly in terms of reps. Brady's numbers look like it's 2003 all over again and yet they're still winning. They're winning in ways completely opposite how they've won for the last 5 or 6 years.
How the hell is that uninteresting?
It's fucking fascinating to me, actually.
steveluck7 said:I don't know if Rocco meant it as literally as you're interpreting it and I know Felger doesn't mean it that way. He's stated many times that 4 hours of tossing bouquets at teams is not interesting radio, and I agree to a point. 4 hours of "Did you see Thompkins lay out for that touchdown?!" would not be too interesting. How long has he chided the "Feety pajama crew" or the "green teamers"?
Informed fans want analysis, which i think he thinks he's providing when talking about things like what to do with Talib. But it comes off as negativity for negativity's sake. Of course, his personal disdain for the organization taints his "analysis", making it seem negative. But i think we also have the expectation that he'll be negative so we may ignore some of the rational, or even positive takes, he has and focus on the negative.
Over exposure is also a problem for him now. As you mentioned, 20 hours of radio a week plus ~10 hours of TV is a lot of time to form and relay opinions.
John Marzano Olympic Hero said:And the contrarianism is about stuff that may happen. I was in the car yesterday for about an hour and it was an hour about whether Aquib Talib might leave via free agency. The NFL offseason doesn't start until early to mid-February, roughly five months away. Literally anything can happen to Talib and the Patriots in that time. And this wasn't one day, this was the SECOND FREAKING DAY of will Aquib Talib stay or go, what should the Patriots do, is Talib a good witch or a bad witch?
He genuinely thinks it is interesting and the ratings seem to validate that assumption. How sustainable it is remains to be seen. At this point he probably has a faction tuning in just to see how he spins something like a road win on Sunday night against a tough team into a negative. It's like the discussions we've had previously in this thread about Stern. People who hated him would tune in just to see what he would say next. Felger has some of that going on. Those of you who have chosen to tune out have reached your limit and that's cool but there are just too many who haven't reached theirs, or who don't have one, for him to change at this point.Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
Exactly. Setting up hypothetical strawmen and lose-lose situations for the Pats isn't being interesting on the radio, it's being a negative dickbag for its own sakes.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
One necessarily follows the other.
Look, if the team ever goes 6-10 one of these years than by all means fire away with the negativity. But what Felger is doing lately is finding negative shit to talk about for its own sake because he thinks it draws listeners. That's insulting. To maintain any shred of credibility, you have to actually acknowledge reality once in a while.
Mystic Merlin said:I'd also add that I wonder if listeners who love Felger's shtick - and there appear to be a not-insignificant number of them - enjoy sports at all. Rocco's common refrain to criticism of this show is 'why listen?' Well, fair enough. But I find myself wanting to ask the people who digest sports in this kind of manner a similar question. Why do they watch sports if all it seems to do is anger them? If you can't enjoy Boston sports right now, then I think it might be time to retire from fandom. It seems like a pretty tiresome, futile way to spend your free time. Maybe I'm missing something here, but, to me, there seems to be a sizable subculture in this fanbase (well, all fanbases I suppose, but it is kind of glaring when your teams have been this successful) that gobbles up the Felgers of the sports world not only because it's entertaining performance art. It's like if you showed up at a party at 10:00 on a Friday, then immediately started harping on why the coolers weren't lined up against a different wall, or commenting that it was certainly not the greatest party you had ever been to, or even dreading work on Monday while everyone else just enjoyed themselves.
soxfan121 said:
Correction: It draws listeners. #1 in the time slot again. The common refrain of "who listens/wants to listen?" continues to be inaccurate and incorrect.
Your final sentence is hyperbole and born from not listening. Which is fine - not your cup of tea. But why is there a daily investment in haranguing people who do listen with the same tired, negative critiques? Oh wait...
soxfan121 said:
You're a very smart guy so I can only assume you've done this on purpose. I mean, there's no way personal taste is factor here, right? Those people must be bad fans and/or human beings. It's not like there's entire fan subcultures based on some self-aggrandizing perception of themselves and their "take" on the world of sports - is there?
Is this thing on?
SidelineCameras said:At the risk of getting flamed left and right for this, I don't see Felger as automatically negative. For one thing, he has been beating the drum that the Patriots aren't "Frauds" because of their opposition - it's not their fault that they played three dogs at QB to start the season, and not their fault that Mike Smith made several bad decisions in the Atlanta game; they are 4-0 and he gives them credit for that.
SidelineCameras said:Also, Soxfan's point about Wiggy is spot-on. Wiggy is a former pro and an unabashed fan of the team, his perspective is unique in that regard. He's only on two hours a week, and he obviously enjoys his quirky and specific role. It has become accepted in this thread that "Wiggy SUX!" but I completely disagree. I don't want Wiggy on all week but I think he's a great third chair.
SidelineCameras said:Felger is crazy emotional about the Bruins, and I for one find it fascinating that the logic and rational he tries to use on the other three teams and leagues in general go right out the window when he's talking hockey. Best example I can think of from last spring: He was all over the Bruins for losing Game 4 against the Rangers last year in round two of the playoffs and failing to sweep the series. Tuukka's terrible goal/skate in a rut in that game aside, I heard his take on that game not as criticism of the team but as one fan's nervous fretting - is this Philly 2010 all over again, can this team close a series, do I trust Clode. If he had a "green teamer" derisive nickname equivalent for Bruins fans, and one of them called and made the same points Felger was making, he would have said "It's sports, let's see Game 5, they slew those demons two years ago, etc." But since he loves the Bruins like his footy-pajamas callers love the Patriots, he was slipping into the same patterns that they do.
Smiling Joe Hesketh said:
The epic fall of EEI would probably show us that being #1 in a time slot is at least as due to lack of viable alternatives as it is to any real strengths of the show itself. Ordway and Wolfe learned that the hard way. We'll see if Felger and Mazz do as well.