Dolphins: Year Tua

Should Miami Trade for Deshaun Watson

  • Yes. Deshaun is a star. Take the known entity.

    Votes: 68 70.8%
  • No. Build around Tua and forge a stronger overall team.

    Votes: 28 29.2%

  • Total voters
    96
  • Poll closed .

rymflaherty

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Just take good players. And it seems they got four good players who could start/contribute in meaningful ways this year. I never thought they'd take a RB this high
And may I add, good players at premium positions.

One thing I completely dont understand is why anyone assumes any of these backs (beyond the top 3) would be better than Gaskin. (If you want to say Ahmed as well, the same applies) I’m not the biggest Gaskin fan, but he put up good numbers...and at times it was with the shitshow passing game where there wasn’t a receiver on the field the defense needed to respect. It would stand to reason Gaskin could be much better simply by having the likes of Fuller and Waddle on the field. You start lining those two up all over, or sending one in motion, it’s entirely different situation for any back. Or you likely want to incorporate more quick passes to those guys in lieu of running plays. Guess that’s just a long way of saying, I think the most important part of a successful running game is going to be line play and scheme.l more so than forcing one of these second tier guys.
Plus they still could get a guy like Chuba Hubbard, who wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up a good starting back.
 

sodenj5

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And may I add, good players at premium positions.

One thing I completely dont understand is why anyone assumes any of these backs (beyond the top 3) would be better than Gaskin. (If you want to say Ahmed as well, the same applies) I’m not the biggest Gaskin fan, but he put up good numbers...and at times it was with the shitshow passing game where there wasn’t a receiver on the field the defense needed to respect. It would stand to reason Gaskin could be much better simply by having the likes of Fuller and Waddle on the field. You start lining those two up all over, or sending one in motion, it’s entirely different situation for any back. Or you likely want to incorporate more quick passes to those guys in lieu of running plays. Guess that’s just a long way of saying, I think the most important part of a successful running game is going to be line play and scheme.l more so than forcing one of these second tier guys.
Plus they still could get a guy like Chuba Hubbard, who wouldn’t surprise me if he ends up a good starting back.
It’s a double edged sword. This draft class was shallow at RB. Last year was deep. I understand not wanting to reach for a RB when there are only three premium choices

The bigger miss is last year where they had so much draft capital they were taking long snappers in the sixth round and it was a deep RB class. They underestimated the demand on RBs and allowed themselves to get caught on the outside of the RBs in the first three rounds.

Gaskin is fine. He’s a decent all around back, but he isn’t a player defenses key in on to stop, which is what makes the RPO game so effective. They aren’t over committing to stop Gaskin, and therefore they aren’t really gaining the same advantage off of RPOs and playaction passes, which across the league are the most efficient play calls.

I would say Michael Carter and Chuba Hubbard are the most appealing options left.
 

sodenj5

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Looking around the internet this morning and it seems like near universal praise for Grier and the draft. It was top heavy with 5 picks in the first 3 rounds and then nothing until round 7, but those first 5 picks are all projected to be significant contributors this year.

They also snagged Gerrid Doaks who looks like the poor man’s version of Javonte Williams. Big, physical inside runner that can also catch the ball pretty well but has had some injury issues. At the very least he’s a good compliment to Myles Gaskin, who was also a 7th round pick.
 

pdaj

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They also snagged Gerrid Doaks who looks like the poor man’s version of Javonte Williams. Big, physical inside runner that can also catch the ball pretty well but has had some injury issues. At the very least he’s a good compliment to Myles Gaskin, who was also a 7th round pick.
I can envision Doaks churning out a role as a short yardage/goal-line option for Miami. This wasn't a strength for Gaskin/Ahmed. It might take a season, however, as it's very possible that Malcom Brown scores a lot of TDs for this team in '21.

In watching Doaks college highlights, he appears to be a bit sneaky solid as a receiver.
 

sodenj5

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I can envision Doaks churning out a role as a short yardage/goal-line option for Miami. This wasn't a strength for Gaskin/Ahmed. It might take a season, however, as it's very possible that Malcom Brown scores a lot of TDs for this team in '21.

In watching Doaks college highlights, he appears to be a bit sneaky solid as a receiver.
I definitely see some Jay Ajayi in Doaks’s game. Also don’t forget that Jordan Howard had like half a dozen 1 yard TDs before Miami cut him.

I don’t mind a RBBC as long as there’s some complimentary skill sets. Once they cut Jordan, there were too many similar backs in the backfield and no one that could handle the short yardage and goal line carries.

No one in Miami’s backfield is a true homerun hitter, but between the OLine fortifications and the improvements to the receivers, it should open up some running lanes and they should have more consistency.
 

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Saw this on Twitter this afternoon. Hooker is a big name but he hasn’t been able to stay on the field. I wouldn’t read a ton into this other than they’re seeing if he wants to take a one year prove it deal and would have a chance to compete with McCain.

I don’t think you dump McCain, strictly because Hooker is so injury prone. But there are worse guys to take a flyer on.
 

sodenj5

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View: https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/1390304508333363202?s=21


This isn’t shocking because Miami basically just drafted his replacement in Javon Holland and had Hooker in for a visit.

What makes it a little surprising is that Holland played a ton of slot CB or Big Nickel and not a ton of true deep safety at Oregon. He has the athletic profile and ball skills to do it, but his actual play there is almost entirely projection.

A lot of people were projecting Holland to play the role that Flores wanted Minkah to play. Working more out of the slot and in the box and less as a true FS.

He might still fill that role, but I think this makes Hooker at least more likely as a guy with true center fielder type of range and experience in the back.

McCain was a very good slot CB, but obviously had his limitations at safety. Commend him for taking the position change head on and being an excellent player for a 5th round draft pick.
 

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Miami at NE Week 1.

Last year, NE went from 2 decades of Tom Brady to running a single wing offense with Cam Newton and Miami had zero game tape in advance of the matchup.

If Miami gets caught with their pants down two years in a row, I’ll be less than enthused. They certainly added some weapons in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith and Nelson Agholor, but I don’t think we’re going to see a complete reinvention of the offense assuming Cam is the Week 1 starter.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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Miami at NE Week 1.

Last year, NE went from 2 decades of Tom Brady to running a single wing offense with Cam Newton and Miami had zero game tape in advance of the matchup.

If Miami gets caught with their pants down two years in a row, I’ll be less than enthused. They certainly added some weapons in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith and Nelson Agholor, but I don’t think we’re going to see a complete reinvention of the offense assuming Cam is the Week 1 starter.
I'm more interested to see how bad the sky is falling if a reinvigorated Pat's defense makes Tua look pedestrian.
 

sodenj5

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I'm more interested to see how bad the sky is falling if a reinvigorated Pat's defense makes Tua look pedestrian.
In here or in the media at large? Because we’re all pretty even keeled here in regards to Tua. Obviously we’re hoping for the best, but I won’t be abandoning the 2021 season if Belichick manages to take a win against Miami at home.

I’ll be interested in seeing how Miami plans to attack NE’s defense. I think they added the personnel that allows them to be more flexible on offense this year. They can run more 12 personnel with Hunter Long and Gesicki, but they can also spread the field and run Waddle, Parker, Gesicki, and Williams out there.

Of note: Will Fuller won’t be playing as he serves the last game of his suspension Week 1.
 

sodenj5

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Posted in the Pats schedule thread, but it’s rumored right now Miami might cap the season in Week 18 home against NE. I would imagine it’s also a distinct possibility Miami is facing a different QB and a different looking offense in that matchup vs Week 1.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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In here or in the media at large? Because we’re all pretty even keeled here in regards to Tua. Obviously we’re hoping for the best, but I won’t be abandoning the 2021 season if Belichick manages to take a win against Miami at home.

I’ll be interested in seeing how Miami plans to attack NE’s defense. I think they added the personnel that allows them to be more flexible on offense this year. They can run more 12 personnel with Hunter Long and Gesicki, but they can also spread the field and run Waddle, Parker, Gesicki, and Williams out there.

Of note: Will Fuller won’t be playing as he serves the last game of his suspension Week 1.
No, I know you're a Tuapologist :)

I think if Tua starts slow, the media will have an easy built storyline ready for use. "Dolphins pass on 'insert rookie QB', Tua continues his struggles."

It's crazy. Even when hes been given a long leash by the team, the media has been ready to bury him. That trend will continue with early struggles, especially if any of the rookie QBs hit the ground running.

And maybe the team and Tua deserve that scrutiny, I dont know.
 
Extremely early Week 1 betting line is Patriots -2.5 at home, which is either a push or a very slight underdog depending on how you value home field in gambling.

View: https://twitter.com/pff/status/1392481616224718851?s=21
FWIW, the SF @ DET line listed there is backwards. (I'm not sure if any of the others are as well, but Detroit being favored by a TD over the 49ers seemed so wrong that I had to look that one up.)

Also FWIW, you'll note that there's no line on the Saints-Packers game, given that nobody knows who will be QB for Green Bay. (Heh.)
 

sodenj5

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No, I know you're a Tuapologist :)

I think if Tua starts slow, the media will have an easy built storyline ready for use. "Dolphins pass on 'insert rookie QB', Tua continues his struggles."

It's crazy. Even when hes been given a long leash by the team, the media has been ready to bury him. That trend will continue with early struggles, especially if any of the rookie QBs hit the ground running.

And maybe the team and Tua deserve that scrutiny, I dont know.
That’s what I was assuming you meant and I agree. It’ll be an easy story to start running with. Miami didn’t re-sign Fitzpatrick. They passed on Herbert. They traded out of 3 and passed on the opportunity for Lance, Fields, and Jones.

Definitely an important year for Tua and important for him to start well because it can quickly become a media dog pile if Miami starts slow.

From what I can see on social media, it appears he’s been hard at work this offseason and Flores and Grier have both been openly saying they expect to see a significant jump from Tua this year. So it seems at the very least he’s been putting in the work to try and make that a reality.
 
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rymflaherty

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Miami at NE Week 1.

Last year, NE went from 2 decades of Tom Brady to running a single wing offense with Cam Newton and Miami had zero game tape in advance of the matchup.

If Miami gets caught with their pants down two years in a row, I’ll be less than enthused. They certainly added some weapons in Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith and Nelson Agholor, but I don’t think we’re going to see a complete reinvention of the offense assuming Cam is the Week 1 starter.
No film what-so-ever, since there wasn’t even a pre-season. That game sucked, but it’s tough to blame the staff too much considering the circumstances.

Guess I’m feeling bullish on this team, because I just went and threw some money on the Dolphins ML after seeing those odds posted. Wish Fuller was going to be available, but if they can get to the season healthy, it’ll still be a large upgrade of talent comparative to what Tua worked with much of the season, even while he serves his suspension.
 

sodenj5

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No film what-so-ever, since there wasn’t even a pre-season. That game sucked, but it’s tough to blame the staff too much considering the circumstances.

Guess I’m feeling bullish on this team, because I just went and threw some money on the Dolphins ML after seeing those odds posted. Wish Fuller was going to be available, but if they can get to the season healthy, it’ll still be a large upgrade of talent comparative to what Tua worked with much of the season, even while he serves his suspension.
Which is why I’m willing to give them a mulligan for last year but would be pretty disappointed if we see a similar performance from them this year. Obviously they have added weapons and I would expect to see a more robust passing game out of 12 personnel, but I don’t think it’s going to be night and day different like last year.

I’ve seen some books open at -2. Either way, Vegas thinks they’re fairly evenly matched, which I would agree with.
 

sodenj5

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Schedule is out and my initial thought is Miami is going to need to start fast because their schedule is top heavy to start. At NE and vs Buffalo in Weeks 1 and 2 means no time for messing around.

Miami had the exact same start last year and went 0-2, losing Byron Jones early in that first Buffalo game.

@Raiders, vs Colts, and @Bucs rounds out the first 5 weeks before the schedule lets off the gas and Miami gets the Jags and Falcons.

Miami also opted to not take their bye week after the London game vs Jacksonville. The bye is late this year at Week 14, but I think that might be a blessing as every team adapts to an 18 week schedule this year.
 

pdaj

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It's definitely a challenging start to the schedule. On the road against New England, and then at home against the Bills, followed by a trip to the opposite coast to face the Raiders. From there, the Dolphins will play the Colts and Bucs in Weeks 4 and 5. I could envision a 2-3 and 5-5 start before making a likely playoff push. Miami will have to win a really tough game or two during this stretch -- maybe one of the Buffalo games and the Ravens contest, for instance -- for a less challenging outlook. Of course, so much can happen before the season even starts, never mind the week-to-week variables, such as injuries,. But, hey, this is what a message board is for, right?

The way the league, media, and fans talk about NFL quarterbacks is fascinating to me, because I think there are so many contingencies at play contributing to the sky-high expectations for the position. The "umbrella issue" is money. There's so much cash at stake for owners/shareholders, which has a trickle-down effect on so many of the league's organizations. Coaches get less time to establish a winning program, and as a result, quarterbacks must prove that "they got it" immediately. Meanwhile, the media talks out both sides of their traps. "Hot take" loud mouths, like Cowherd, argue for Miami to draft another QB with the #3 pick, while during other segments, lambastes the NFL for not developing/ruining quarterbacks. Darnold is a recent example.

Only in the NFL, could we see a "Tank for Tua" movement turn into "he's a bust" narrative following a 6-3 record and a quarterback rating that ranks 16th all-time among rookie quarterbacks. So what that he started his first game less than a year after enduring a catastrophic hip injury? Or that he wasn't able to participate in a training camp or preseason game? Or that for the majority of the season, he threw to DeVante Parker and a cast of fringe receivers? Nope, Tua didn't pass the "eye test" of non-scouts/coaches. He didn't have that Mahomes electricity!

Meanwhile, so many of the people who talk/write about the sport have zero experience teaching ... anything. All they know is, when a young quarterback is struggling, he has to "work through it." Trial and error. And if he's benched? He just doesn't have "it." They say this because that's been how the QB spot has been handled over the past couple of decades, not because it's a proven strategy for developing players at this most important position.

In the MLB, where a top prospect/starting pitcher routinely gets pulled in the 3rd inning after walking his 4th batter or giving up his 5th ER? No one bats and eye. On to the next start! ... or learning opportunity, right? While it's true that most of learning occurs when doing, best establishing conditions for success and limiting unnecessary failures is a scientifically proven approach to optimizing performance. In the behavior analytic field, it's referred to as errorless teaching. In other words, there's value in handling your rookie QB with kid gloves, putting him in situations to succeed, and terminating contexts where frequent mistakes are occurring and unfavorable results are likely.

Often, a coach may not believe he has that luxury to operate in this fashion (for some of the reasons cited above), but Flores? He had job security. Balls. And Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I'm really, really looking forward to Tua's second season. I expect a significant step forward.
 

dwainw

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Nicely said, @pdaj . I'm condensing that onto an index card that I'll keep in my pocket whenever all my non-Dolphin fan friends start ranting about how the Dolphins fucked up their QB situation again and how Tua "didn't impress," etc.

Regarding the release of the schedule, I always feel slightly disappointed when they don't make it to prime time, but really it's probably a blessing in disguise. I enjoy a good Thur. night matchup as much as the next guy (Monday night--not so much any more), but it always feels like it disrupts the natural rhythm of the season. And I just hate seeing those London games pop up on the schedule. I don't like anything about them. Especially when it robs them of a home game (not the case this year).
 

rymflaherty

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I wish I recalled the exact game, but it was so jarring I do recall the fact that there was a game last year that Tua finished where, of all the players available, the player with the most yards from scrimmage on the season was Fitzpatrick and his hundred whatever rushing yards.
It may have been the Chiefs game, once Gesicki got hurt. Tua was leading touchdown drives with guys who were college QB’s and out of the league a few weeks prior.

I get that it wasn’t all awesome. If anything, for me, it’s how small Tua looked out there that does cause concerns. But as I’ve probably posted a lot, the extreme anti-Tua narrative is just insane to me.

Probably not worth posting as this is nothing but connecting some dots and gut feeling, but I have a growing feeling that Holland is going to be special.
 

RG33

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Volin wrote in the Globe today about how Tua was pretty open this week in talking about how he lacked a mastery of the playbook last year, and it impacted his performance at the line of scrimmage. He was obviously a rookie QB in a Covid season and it explains some of his underwhelming performance last year, but still an interesting comment from a QB1 that was a top 5 pick in the draft.

“I didn’t actually know the playbook necessarily really, really good, and that’s no one else fault but my fault,” he said via the Miami Herald. “Our play calls were simple when I was in. I didn’t have alerts and checks. I just rode with the play, even if I knew it wasn’t going to work.”
 

Clears Cleaver

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the Tua interview was on a livestream media appearance that anyone could watch. On Thursday. This has been widely discussed in Miami the last few days
 

mauf

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It's definitely a challenging start to the schedule. On the road against New England, and then at home against the Bills, followed by a trip to the opposite coast to face the Raiders. From there, the Dolphins will play the Colts and Bucs in Weeks 4 and 5. I could envision a 2-3 and 5-5 start before making a likely playoff push. Miami will have to win a really tough game or two during this stretch -- maybe one of the Buffalo games and the Ravens contest, for instance -- for a less challenging outlook. Of course, so much can happen before the season even starts, never mind the week-to-week variables, such as injuries,. But, hey, this is what a message board is for, right?

The way the league, media, and fans talk about NFL quarterbacks is fascinating to me, because I think there are so many contingencies at play contributing to the sky-high expectations for the position. The "umbrella issue" is money. There's so much cash at stake for owners/shareholders, which has a trickle-down effect on so many of the league's organizations. Coaches get less time to establish a winning program, and as a result, quarterbacks must prove that "they got it" immediately. Meanwhile, the media talks out both sides of their traps. "Hot take" loud mouths, like Cowherd, argue for Miami to draft another QB with the #3 pick, while during other segments, lambastes the NFL for not developing/ruining quarterbacks. Darnold is a recent example.

Only in the NFL, could we see a "Tank for Tua" movement turn into "he's a bust" narrative following a 6-3 record and a quarterback rating that ranks 16th all-time among rookie quarterbacks. So what that he started his first game less than a year after enduring a catastrophic hip injury? Or that he wasn't able to participate in a training camp or preseason game? Or that for the majority of the season, he threw to DeVante Parker and a cast of fringe receivers? Nope, Tua didn't pass the "eye test" of non-scouts/coaches. He didn't have that Mahomes electricity!

Meanwhile, so many of the people who talk/write about the sport have zero experience teaching ... anything. All they know is, when a young quarterback is struggling, he has to "work through it." Trial and error. And if he's benched? He just doesn't have "it." They say this because that's been how the QB spot has been handled over the past couple of decades, not because it's a proven strategy for developing players at this most important position.

In the MLB, where a top prospect/starting pitcher routinely gets pulled in the 3rd inning after walking his 4th batter or giving up his 5th ER? No one bats and eye. On to the next start! ... or learning opportunity, right? While it's true that most of learning occurs when doing, best establishing conditions for success and limiting unnecessary failures is a scientifically proven approach to optimizing performance. In the behavior analytic field, it's referred to as errorless teaching. In other words, there's value in handling your rookie QB with kid gloves, putting him in situations to succeed, and terminating contexts where frequent mistakes are occurring and unfavorable results are likely.

Often, a coach may not believe he has that luxury to operate in this fashion (for some of the reasons cited above), but Flores? He had job security. Balls. And Ryan Fitzpatrick.

I'm really, really looking forward to Tua's second season. I expect a significant step forward.

Let’s face it — you’d take Justin Herbert over Tua if you could do it over. And even with his uncertain return from injury, you’d probably take Joe Burrow over Tua too. Tua’s 87.1 QB rating compares well to historic benchmarks, but it was worse than the rookie marks for Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, Gardner Minshew, and Daniel Jones (just barely). Hard to say it wasn’t a disappointing season, despite the W-L record.

That said, I’m generally bullish on Tua. And he doesn’t need to be better than average for the Dolphins to win the division, assuming Josh Allen doesn’t take another leap forward (and if that happens, we’re all living in the Bills world for the next several years anyway).
 

sodenj5

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Let’s face it — you’d take Justin Herbert over Tua if you could do it over. And even with his uncertain return from injury, you’d probably take Joe Burrow over Tua too. Tua’s 87.1 QB rating compares well to historic benchmarks, but it was worse than the rookie marks for Baker Mayfield, Marcus Mariota, Gardner Minshew, and Daniel Jones (just barely). Hard to say it wasn’t a disappointing season, despite the W-L record.

That said, I’m generally bullish on Tua. And he doesn’t need to be better than average for the Dolphins to win the division, assuming Josh Allen doesn’t take another leap forward (and if that happens, we’re all living in the Bills world for the next several years anyway).
I wouldn’t take Herbert over Tua. I won’t rehash that Tua argument for the 100th time, but in a near worst case scenario last season he was maybe League average as a rookie. There’s an immense amount of upside and Miami has made a significant investment surrounding Tua with more talent.

His remarks earlier in the week was much more him going out of his way not to throw Chan Gailey under the bus. He said the playbook was simplified for him, there weren’t checks and audibles at the line of scrimmage. He said he would go to the line and know a play wasn’t going to work but it was his job to do his best to make it work.

He then tried to take responsibility for that, saying the reason the playbook was simplified was because he didn’t have a deep understanding of the playbook and that was his fault. That’s what has been grabbing headlines.

Is it true that Tua didn’t fully grasp the playbook to the level of Fitz? Probably. The bigger problem maybe was Chan Gailey didn’t do a good enough job getting Tua up to speed on the playbook or installing a more friendly offense for a rookie QB. Or Chan Gailey didn’t trust Tua like he trusted Fitz and they essentially handcuffed him into running the play exactly as it was called.
 

mauf

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I wouldn’t take Herbert over Tua. I won’t rehash that Tua argument for the 100th time, but in a near worst case scenario last season he was maybe League average as a rookie. There’s an immense amount of upside and Miami has made a significant investment surrounding Tua with more talent.
I don’t know how predictive statistical performance as a rookie is of long-term success, but Tua was not close to league average last season. He was 26th in QB rating, 29th in completion percentage, 30th in yards per pass attempt, and 28th in average net yards per attempt. By contrast, Herbert was 12th, 15th, 16th and 15th in those categories — so, right around league average.

If your point is that Tua wasn’t particularly bad for a rookie, I wholeheartedly agree. But he does need to take a big leap forward to give the Dolphins the average-ish QB play they’ll need to win the division. Again, I’m bullish on him.
 

sodenj5

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I don’t know how predictive statistical performance as a rookie is of long-term success, but Tua was not close to league average last season. He was 26th in QB rating, 29th in completion percentage, 30th in yards per pass attempt, and 28th in average net yards per attempt. By contrast, Herbert was 12th, 15th, 16th and 15th in those categories — so, right around league average.

If your point is that Tua wasn’t particularly bad for a rookie, I wholeheartedly agree. But he does need to take a big leap forward to give the Dolphins the average-ish QB play they’ll need to win the division. Again, I’m bullish on him.
Fair enough. I’m mostly looking forward to the season starting so we all have something else to discuss regarding Tua and Miami.
 

Clears Cleaver

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Did you care to share your opinion on it?
no. but in the context of "Volin has better contacts in Miami than New England" all he did was watch a free media livestream or a repeat that was available everywhere. No contacts needed for that report unless the internet was one of his contacts.
 

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no. but in the context of "Volin has better contacts in Miami than New England" all he did was watch a free media livestream or a repeat that was available everywhere. No contacts needed for that report unless the internet was one of his contacts.
Seriously. That story was all over ESPN on Thursday and Friday.
 

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no. but in the context of "Volin has better contacts in Miami than New England" all he did was watch a free media livestream or a repeat that was available everywhere. No contacts needed for that report unless the internet was one of his contacts.
And if it was in Volin's notes column, don't they still run that disclaimer about information being collected from various sources?
 

RG33

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And if it was in Volin's notes column, don't they still run that disclaimer about information being collected from various sources?
I know you are responding to VE’s comment on here, but as it clearly indicates in the quote I referenced “he said via the Miami Herald”, so I’m not sure why this is still being discussed. Volin properly attributed it — as did I.
 

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Why wouldn’t you want Herbert now vs Tua? Herbert has shown the ability to be good under pressure. We know it’s a volatile stat and he’s likely to regress there but Herbert gave the Chargers pro bowl caliber play. He’s answered a lot of the questions about him coming out with his processing. Herbert has proven he can acclimate to life as a pro. Tua still hasn’t. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I’d much rather have Herbert right now than Tua given how risky the position is. Herberts accuracy and touch in the intermediate range improved. I think for him he was still learning to throw with more touch even when he came out.
 

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Jul 14, 2005
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I would for sure agree that Justin Herbert had a much better rookie year. He also has a much more archetypical physical profile than Tua.

I’ll just say that I still believe that Tua’s upside is still greater than Herbert’s. And you can call that homerism, or a jaded perspective, and that’s fine. If Tua has another year this year like 2020, and Herbert looks like Josh Allen lite, I’ll freely admit that Herbert is/was the correct pick.

As we’ve seen many times, the situation a QB gets put into is equally as important as their own talent and ability. Tua has plenty to improve upon from year 1 to year 2. I look forward to seeing that improvement manifest itself on the field in 2021.
 

johnmd20

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Why wouldn’t you want Herbert now vs Tua? Herbert has shown the ability to be good under pressure. We know it’s a volatile stat and he’s likely to regress there but Herbert gave the Chargers pro bowl caliber play. He’s answered a lot of the questions about him coming out with his processing. Herbert has proven he can acclimate to life as a pro. Tua still hasn’t. I don’t have a dog in this fight but I’d much rather have Herbert right now than Tua given how risky the position is. Herberts accuracy and touch in the intermediate range improved. I think for him he was still learning to throw with more touch even when he came out.
There isn't a team in the NFL who would choose Tua over Herbert right now. It's not even close.
 

rymflaherty

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Jun 27, 2010
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I’m not gung ho about jumping into a Tua/Herbert debate, but I saw the numbers and discussion above and figured I’d share an interesting number given on Mina Kimes’ podcast today...Herbert was 26th in the league with a clean pocket.

It’s likely a meaningless number in as much as it can be spun to bolster whichever side you were arguing, but I thought it was interesting as it shows that maybe Herbert wasn’t far off from the questionable prospect many thought him to be, but the undeniable physical tools carried him beyond what most would have imagined possible (especially early).

I thought drafting Tua was the logical move, so I’m at peace with the situation, regardless of what happens. I fully realize if I were to say I’d still rather have Tua would mostly be stubbornness...but I can be a stubborn individual. As a Dolphins fan it may wind up that the best case scenario is Herbert puts up his monster numbers, but Tua is the one that’s won championships.

And as much as I don’t necessarily care for discussing Herbert, I do prefer this to seeing the Watson trade articles start to pop up again.