Do you think that Chaim Bloom came to Boston with a bad rap?

Bloom's bad rap, did you buy into it and has it changed for you?

  • I bought into it, my POV has not changed at all. (He stinks then and now)

    Votes: 9 4.4%
  • I bought into it, my POV has changed. (I thought he stinks, but I think he's good/ok now)

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • I didn't buy into it, my POV has not changed at all. (I gave him the BotD* and think he's good/ok)

    Votes: 100 49.3%
  • I didn't buy into it, my POV has changed. (I gave him the BotD* and think he stinks)

    Votes: 90 44.3%

  • Total voters
    203

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Let's say that Bloom came from the Phillies or the Rangers or the Mariners, do you think that he would get the same amount of shit from the fan base today? Do you think that it has hurt his (and the team's) perception? Have the totality of his transactions made you think differently of him (ie: he does or doesn't deserve his "original" reputation)?

I think that coming from Tampa Bay put a big target on Bloom's back. I think that a lot of people felt that Boston was going to become Tampa Bay North and that the Sox were going to operate like a small market team. I think that Boston has taken a step back in spending, but it's clearly not TB North. However I think it's obvious that they're also not playing in the Yankees, Mets, Padres, etc league either. Which is fine--they're probably in that creamy middle between the Rays and the Yanks. I think that most fans have gotten over the Tampa North thing, but I think that what happens to this club (transactions, injuries, etc) are viewed partly through that prism.

What do you think, he's been here for four years. Have your views on Bloom changed at all?
 

brandonchristensen

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Feb 4, 2012
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Crazy he's been here four years, I really couldn't tell you much about him.

I don't recall a GM that was less public facing than him. Theo came in with high hopes and delivered, Cherington was quiet but had been with us awhile so he had some growing pains - but ultimately won a title before leaving, then DD came in and we got what we hoped from him. Chaim came in however, hasn't really made an impression either way. He works in a very cloak and dagger way that could be good, or could be bad. All I know is that we've seen a lot of things that make sense not happen (Extending Xander prior to this year, extending Devers prior to this year) and other things that make no sense happen (Trading Renfroe for JBJ).

I wish there was some talk of bridge years, or some sort of insight as to what he's trying to do with the club. I know he wants to build a perennial contender - but if he set expectations for the interim, I think it would be easier to relate to what he's doing.
 

CarolinaBeerGuy

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Mar 14, 2006
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Crazy he's been here four years, I really couldn't tell you much about him.
He was hired at the end of October 2019, so just over 3 years. He was the guy I wanted in the job and I think that the consensus opinion at the time was that he was a good hire. My faith in him was wavering before the Devers extension, but I’m back on board. I also think letting Xander go was the right move.
 

Shaky Walton

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Nov 20, 2019
454
I think Bloom is an unmitigated disaster. I think he is horrible at baseball, has poor judgment, is way over his skis and extremely indecisive, causing him to miss out on opportunities (this is admitteldy fueled by media speculation).

His stunned reaction and depression over the Xander signing said a lot to me. How could you be surprised? Are you delusional? Do you not understand the market to that extent? And yes, the SS was a fine fellow, but you have a job to do.

I could dissect the moves and non-moves but the charts showing the team he inherited versus what he has converted those assets into says so much to me. The 2023 Red Sox, even before the Story debacle, were full of holes and would have been hard pressed to contend for anyting but the AL East cellar.

Devers was a nice save but (a) money talks and Boston is still a wonderful market to call home and (b) I do think that the public backlash and reaction to Henry at a hockey game played a role in the Sox willingness to extend themselves...again, I think it played a role. It's not the whole story.

And the huge caveat to all of this is whether Bloom is just an extension of ownership and is essentially being forced into what he's doing. I do not believe this is the case. But it's not necessarily binary and it's likely partially ownership driven and partially because Chaim Bloom is verfy bad at his job.

I had very few preconceived ideas about him. I liked that he had success in Tampa but didn't know how much of the results were down to him. He seemed earnest and even likable. So I was generally upbeat but not much more than that. The moves he made before last season (trading Renfroe, not signing Schwarber, not going after Iglesias for 2B, making the splash be Story (Colorado hitting inflation and down 2021) and not getting X done in advance made me worry that he was a problem and that he suffered from "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.

I still want to be wrong. Badly. I know the counter arguments but remain very surprised at the level of support he has here. I think SOME of that is wishcasting but again, I hope I am wrong.

Hell, I thought the Bruins were gonna struggle to make the playoffs and the Celts would not wet their pants at the sight of the GSW, so I have been wrong before. On the other hand, the Pats finished exactly where I thought they would and I made a nice amount of money betting against them this season, so I can be right, too. Long way of saying that my views of Bloom are barely worth a cup of coffee.

But I am more convinced that I am right than I was about any of the topics mentioned above.
 

lexrageorge

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Jul 31, 2007
15,961
I realize this thread is what I think. I voted "good/ok", although there was no "starting to have doubts" option. I've certainly read the fair share of opinions both "for" and "against" Bloom's tenure here. While I may not agree with all of the "against" arguments, I don't really see many of the anti-Bloom folks using Tampa as a reason. Which is good, because I don't believe the fact he came from Tampa specifically is at all meaningful when it comes to assessing the job Bloom has done in Boston.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
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I think Bloom is an unmitigated disaster. I think he is horrible at baseball, has poor judgment, is way over his skis and extremely indecisive, causing him to miss out on opportunities (this is admitteldy fueled by media speculation).

His stunned reaction and depression over the Xander signing said a lot to me. How could you be surprised? Are you delusional? Do you not understand the market to that extent? And yes, the SS was a fine fellow, but you have a job to do.

I could dissect the moves and non-moves but the charts showing the team he inherited versus what he has converted those assets into says so much to me. The 2023 Red Sox, even before the Story debacle, were full of holes and would have been hard pressed to contend for anyting but the AL East cellar.

Devers was a nice save but (a) money talks and Boston is still a wonderful market to call home and (b) I do think that the public backlash and reaction to Henry at a hockey game played a role in the Sox willingness to extend themselves...again, I think it played a role. It's not the whole story.

And the huge caveat to all of this is whether Bloom is just an extension of ownership and is essentially being forced into what he's doing. I do not believe this is the case. But it's not necessarily binary and it's likely partially ownership driven and partially because Chaim Bloom is verfy bad at his job.

I had very few preconceived ideas about him. I liked that he had success in Tampa but didn't know how much of the results were down to him. He seemed earnest and even likable. So I was generally upbeat but not much more than that. The moves he made before last season (trading Renfroe, not signing Schwarber, not going after Iglesias for 2B, making the splash be Story (Colorado hitting inflation and down 2021) and not getting X done in advance made me worry that he was a problem and that he suffered from "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.

I still want to be wrong. Badly. I know the counter arguments but remain very surprised at the level of support he has here. I think SOME of that is wishcasting but again, I hope I am wrong.

Hell, I thought the Bruins were gonna struggle to make the playoffs and the Celts would not wet their pants at the sight of the GSW, so I have been wrong before. On the other hand, the Pats finished exactly where I thought they would and I made a nice amount of money betting against them this season, so I can be right, too. Long way of saying that my views of Bloom are barely worth a cup of coffee.

But I am more convinced that I am right than I was about any of the topics mentioned above.
You’ve not only been wrong before, but an awful lot judging by this post.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Apr 12, 2001
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This. There needs to be an option for “I didn't have any views about him until he came to Boston”.
I didn’t mean him personally, Bloom is the same as every other front office guy: young, white, went to Yale, loves quarter zips and obsessed with McKinsian efficiency.

But the prejudiced view was about the TB front office: trading veterans as soon as they start making money, cycling faceless relievers in and out of the organization, frugal, things like that.

I hate the TB organization as much as I hate the Yankees. So hearing that the Sox hired someone from that organization wasn’t exactly music to my ears.

But having said that, I think where he worked kinda poisoned the well even before day one in Boston. I don’t think he was given a fair shake and he really needed to come out of the gates swinging with his first big transaction. That didn’t go great and I don’t think he’s recovered.
 

jbupstate

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Dec 1, 2022
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The Betts move and financial reset were directives from above. Automatically any GM that trades an Icon for financial relief would be in the crosshairs of the fanbase. Full stop.

Add that he came from Tampa and he faced an uphill battle with perception as a penny pincher. Add a super entitled fanbase and a lazy media.

The plan should be clear to anyone that wants to buy in. FSG wants championships AND no longer feel finishing last is part of their investment plan. Build the farm to stock the big team with inexpensive players and splurge for elite talent that takes you from competitive to serious contender.

Jury is out on if Bloom has what it takes to finish the job. Lots ride on draftees below AA.

I think Bloom has some serious stones to first take the job and to make hard decisions.
 

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
87
I didn't know much about Bloom specifically, but was conceptually on board with the TB model of finding value, developing players and churning out solid pitching routinely. Combined with the resources of the Sox relative to TB I thought it would be great. That said, to date I have a pretty low opinion of Bloom. Yeah the Devers extension was nice and he won the Pivetta trade, but that's really it. I won't get into his perceived misses (I have elsewhere) and I still think he is an extension of ownership's edicts.
Fwiw I don't think his public persona helps either.

Eta: Whitlock was nice too. But my point still stands
 

JM3

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The whole premise seems fairly silly to me 2 of the last 3 World Series were won by Rays alums (Friedman & Click). Plus the Rays are like quite good (playoffs every year) & being a "richer Rays' wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

If Bloom sucks it's because Bloom sucks & doesn't have the ability to do the things the other Rays/ex-Rays can do in terms of player evaluation & nothing to do with the system.
 

nighthob

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Jul 15, 2005
11,705
I didn't know much about Bloom specifically, but was conceptually on board with the TB model of finding value, developing players and churning out solid pitching routinely. Combined with the resources of the Sox relative to TB I thought it would be great. That said, to date I have a pretty low opinion of Bloom. Yeah the Devers extension was nice and he won the Pivetta trade, but that's really it. I won't get into his perceived misses (I have elsewhere) and I still think he is an extension of ownership's edicts.
Fwiw I don't think his public persona helps either.
They aren‘t using the Tampa Bay model, they’re using the Dodgers one. But you can’t turn your minor league system into a pipeline in a year, players take 4-6 years to make their way through the system. So ‘23-‘25 is where we should see those players making their way to Boston and taking spots on the field. After that it’s a matter of identifying the areas where you can afford to splurge on elite talent.
 

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
87
They aren‘t using the Tampa Bay model, they’re using the Dodgers one. But you can’t turn your minor league system into a pipeline in a year, players take 4-6 years to make their way through the system. So ‘23-‘25 is where we should see those players making their way to Boston and taking spots on the field. After that it’s a matter of identifying the areas where you can afford to splurge on elite talent.
Shouldn't the Sox have gotten someone from the dodgers if that was the plan? As for the pipeline, I'm not particularly convinced beyond a few players. I'm not encouraged by blooms moves (or lack thereof) to get rid of x/jdm/etc and add talent in their place. If he's building for 23-25, I would have offloaded those guys for more prospects who fit that timeline. But I've had this discussion with others on the board, well agree to disagree. Maybe I'm more pessimistic than most.
 

DisgruntledSoxFan77

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I loved the hire at the time, was hoping he could keep the team competitive while building the minor league system, but he’s failed at keeping the major league team competitive. That’s my vote. (Not that anyone cares, agrees with me, or even sees this)
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

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Add that he came from Tampa and he faced an uphill battle with perception as a penny pincher. Add a super entitled fanbase and a lazy media.
What, exactly, does “super entitled fanbase” mean? Shouldn’t all fan bases want their team to win? I’m not sure why this is a bad thing.

Watching losing baseball doesn’t make you a better or smarter fan. You’re just watching shitty baseball. You’re a fan, this isn’t a higher calling.

The whole premise seems fairly silly to me 2 of the last 3 World Series were won by Rays alums (Friedman & Click). Plus the Rays are like quite good (playoffs every year) & being a "richer Rays' wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

If Bloom sucks it's because Bloom sucks & doesn't have the ability to do the things the other Rays/ex-Rays can do in terms of player evaluation & nothing to do with the system.
No one in this forum has the ability to see into the future so knowing that two TB alumni would win two of the last three WS is Irrelevant.

And the Rays are only really good like the A’s are. They do well in the regular season and usually get their asses kicked in the post season because they don’t have the talent to take them all the way.

But to the point, you don’t think that a person who has grown up in and only known one organization for his entire baseball life is going to bring that org’s traits to his new job?
 

jon abbey

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Jul 15, 2005
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But to the point, you don’t think that a person who has grown up in and only known one organization for his entire baseball life is going to bring that org’s traits to his new job?
This describes Andrew Friedman pre-Dodgers (11 years in TB) as well as it does Chaim Bloom pre-Red Sox (14 years in TB), pretty sure neither worked anywhere else.
 

Shaky Walton

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Nov 20, 2019
454
You’ve not only been wrong before, but an awful lot judging by this post.
So witty! Thanks for playing.

Let's see.

As to the Bruins. pretty much no one got their level of success right. I'm OK with having underestimated them.

I was right all year about the Patriots and pretty much nailed every game other than the Bears game, when I only wagered $25.

I guess I could have seen the Cs' meltdown against the Warriors coming. The last 3 games of last season were in line with this one. So bad on me there.

As to the Sox and my assessments, I'm think that I'm right. And if I'm wrong, your useless snark does nothing to advance the conversation.
 

Shaky Walton

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Nov 20, 2019
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What, exactly, does “super entitled fanbase” mean? Shouldn’t all fan bases want their team to win? I’m not sure why this is a bad thing.

Watching losing baseball doesn’t make you a better or smarter fan. You’re just watching shitty baseball. You’re a fan, this isn’t a higher calling.



No one in this forum has the ability to see into the future so knowing that two TB alumni would win two of the last three WS is Irrelevant.

And the Rays are only really good like the A’s are. They do well in the regular season and usually get their asses kicked in the post season because they don’t have the talent to take them all the way.

But to the point, you don’t think that a person who has grown up in and only known one organization for his entire baseball life is going to bring that org’s traits to his new job?
Few things are dumber than saying Boston fans are "entitled" or "spoiled."

It makes no sense.

Fans are ENTITLED to be critical.

Speaking only for myself, I am at various times grateful, let down, happy and critical.

I know that the odds of winning a title are low and the 12 titles in this century is unbelievalbe.

When I express negative views about the decision making of Belichick, Bloom or Matt Patricia, it's because -- SHOCKINGLY -- I think they erred. Like when I thought that Grady Little was a king sized FUCKING IDIOT, I said that, too.

But "entitled" implies that I think I have the right or reasonable expectation that my team will win every year. Or spend like Steve Cohen.

I don't know about anyone else, but to me a lot of the fun of being a sports fan is thinking along with the GM or manager. My wet dream job is to be the GM of the Red Sox. So when I criticize, it's cause I strongly believe in what I am saying, not that I think I have anything coming to me.

And when I complain when they lose, it's not cause I think that my team is supposed to win every year. What adult could actually think that?

It's lazy and stupid to say a group of fans are entitled and spoiled cause they have strong views and get pissed off at bad decision making.
 

NDame616

will bailey
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Jul 31, 2006
2,054
I wish there was some talk of bridge years, or some sort of insight as to what he's trying to do with the club.
I never understood this. Why would he admit to us having a few bridge years? It would put us as a competitive disadvantage with signing free agents, trading players, etc. It would make fans upset. Piss off the media, etc. It would hurt ratings, kill attendance, cost people jobs etc.

What can they possibly gain by admitting they don't expect to contend the next few years?
 

JM3

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Dec 14, 2019
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No one in this forum has the ability to see into the future so knowing that two TB alumni would win two of the last three WS is Irrelevant.

And the Rays are only really good like the A’s are. They do well in the regular season and usually get their asses kicked in the post season because they don’t have the talent to take them all the way.

But to the point, you don’t think that a person who has grown up in and only known one organization for his entire baseball life is going to bring that org’s traits to his new job?
To JA's point right below this post, Friedman had already made the playoffs in LA 5 years in a row by the time Bloom was hired.

The Rays have had significantly more playoff success than the A's, but I recall how excited Sox fans were when we almost hired Billy Beane.

Spending money is the easiest part of the job. Having the infrastructure in place to make the spending count is the hard part. Idk, this whole thread just seems like another spot where we get to re-litigate the same circular arguments so I will just duck out.
 

nighthob

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Shouldn't the Sox have gotten someone from the dodgers if that was the plan? As for the pipeline, I'm not particularly convinced beyond a few players.
This has been debated to death, but what the Dodgers were willing to trade for one year of Mookie was $48 million and scraps. That was it. And, frankly, it was the best offer there was. Because San Diego's offer also excluded their minor league system's top ten and required Boston eat a crap contract. Given the realities of the present CBA, getting under the tax line was paramount.

Also, while it's great if the pipeline produces elite talent, it's not necessary that they all be Marcelo Mayer or Miguel Bleis. It's enough that it graduate guys that can perform at an average level, because Boston has the resources to sign those guys when the time comes. They're just not there quite yet, but guys like Little Raffy, Mata, Enmanuel Valdez, and Brandon Walter are going to start filtering in over the next 18 months, followed by guys like Yorke and Mayer.
 

soxhop411

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I never understood this. Why would he admit to us having a few bridge years? It would put us as a competitive disadvantage with signing free agents, trading players, etc. It would make fans upset. Piss off the media, etc. It would hurt ratings, kill attendance, cost people jobs etc.

What can they possibly gain by admitting they don't expect to contend the next few years?
My how we all forget the shitshow that resulted from Theo's Bridge year commnets back in 2010
https://www.bostonherald.com/2010/01/09/theo-epstein-builds-on-bridge-discussion/
https://www.sunjournal.com/2010/09/12/bridge-year-jump-bridge-year/
 

nighthob

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I was right all year about the Patriots and pretty much nailed every game other than the Bears game, when I only wagered $25.
Congratulations on guessing, along with everyone else, that the Patriots were going to be mediocre.

I guess I could have seen the Cs' meltdown against the Warriors coming. The last 3 games of last season were in line with this one. So bad on me there.
The Warriors "genius" after getting blown out in game one was in realizing that Boston had been playing a playoff rotation for five months by the finals. Their "adjustment" was to stop trying to match them in that regard (because with an older team the eight man rotation has to conserve energy) and simply go back to a regular season ten man rotation and tell them to play at full speed every second on the court. At that point injury and exhaustion took over for Boston. Something that we'd been discussing here for months before the finals.
 

JCizzle

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If anything, coming from Tampa set higher expectations in my mind and I've been disappointed in his performance since. I expected a string of extremely strong, bargain bullpens starting from day one and a number of smart trades to net us a core for the future. I assumed the Mookie trade would end up being a home run start to those trades. Instead, the bullpen has been mixed, at best, and his attempts at leveraging our payroll on trades like Renfroe have been poor. I hoped for Tampa with a budget and we haven't gotten either to date.
 

nighthob

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If anything, coming from Tampa set higher expectations in my mind and I've been disappointed in his performance since. I expected a string of extremely strong, bargain bullpens starting from day one and a number of smart trades to net us a core for the future. I assumed the Mookie trade would end up being a home run start to those trades. Instead, the bullpen has been mixed, at best, and his attempts at leveraging our payroll on trades like the Renfroe have been poor. I hoped for Tampa with a budget and we haven't gotten either to date.
The only thing that I was hoping for from the Betts trade was losing Sale's contract. Unfortunately Price's was the best they could do. I hated the Renfroe trade at the time (and said so), because Boston both accepted marginal talent and ate dead payroll. Binelas and Hamilton were a fair return for Renfroe (because it's doubtful that either ever makes it to the majors here), but if the Brewers were also unloading salary, then Boston should have got actual major league prospects in return.
 

YTF

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Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I thought Bloom's hiring was fairly well received here. Speaking for myself, there was a good deal of anticipation for him to bring some of the things that happened under his watch in Tampa to Fenway. The Rays seemed pretty adept at making smart trades and finding solid, everyday contributors that didn't put the team into long term financial risk. They were an organization that was said to think outside the box and thought to be at the forefront of the next/new wave of statistics and analytics. I think many of us looked forward to a bit of "Tampa North" and don't recall many negative rumblings until after the Betts trade and they seemed to calm a bit in 2021. Hernandez, Renfroe, Verdugo and Whitlock were all solid contributors as were Schwarber and Iglesias. They were all brought in by Bloom and while there were rumblings in season (especially at the trade deadline) they all contributed to the success of that season. It seems to me that post season run bought Bloom quite a bit of good will and that it was the following off season that found him falling out of favor with some who had been supporters and many who were on the fence. It seems to me that it was THIS combined with the Betts trade and the 2021 trade deadline served as the catalyst of the negative connotation of "Tampa North". I don't think he came here with a bad rap, I think that the rap or rep is something that was born from his time here.
 
Last edited:

astrozombie

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Sep 12, 2022
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This has been debated to death, but what the Dodgers were willing to trade for one year of Mookie was $48 million and scraps. That was it. And, frankly, it was the best offer there was. Because San Diego's offer also excluded their minor league system's top ten and required Boston eat a crap contract. Given the realities of the present CBA, getting under the tax line was ...
For clarity sake I never said anything about Betts (here). I meant if you want to emulate the Dodgers FO, get someone from the Dodgers org.
 

YTF

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So witty! Thanks for playing.

Let's see.

As to the Bruins. pretty much no one got their level of success right. I'm OK with having underestimated them.

I was right all year about the Patriots and pretty much nailed every game other than the Bears game, when I only wagered $25.

I guess I could have seen the Cs' meltdown against the Warriors coming. The last 3 games of last season were in line with this one. So bad on me there.

As to the Sox and my assessments, I'm think that I'm right. And if I'm wrong, your useless snark does nothing to advance the conversation.
Just curious...WTF does any of this have to do with the OP.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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If anything, coming from Tampa set higher expectations in my mind and I've been disappointed in his performance since. I expected a string of extremely strong, bargain bullpens starting from day one and a number of smart trades to net us a core for the future. I assumed the Mookie trade would end up being a home run start to those trades. Instead, the bullpen has been mixed, at best, and his attempts at leveraging our payroll on trades like Renfroe have been poor. I hoped for Tampa with a budget and we haven't gotten either to date.
Perhaps I'm misremembering, but I thought Bloom's hiring was fairly well received here. Speaking for myself, there was a good deal of anticipation for him to bring some of the things that happened under his watch in Tampa to Fenway. The Rays seemed pretty adept at making smart trades and finding solid, everyday contributors that didn't put the team into long term financial risk. They were an organization that was said to think outside the box and thought to be at the forefront of the next/new wave of statistics and analytics. I think many of us looked forward to a bit of "Tampa North" and don't recall many negative rumblings until after the Betts trade and they seemed to calm a bit in 2021. Hernandez, Renfroe, Verdugo and Whitlock were all solid contributors as were Schwarber and Iglesias. They were all brought in by Bloom and while there were rumblings in season (especially at the trade deadline) they all contributed to the success of that season. It seems to me that post season run bought Bloom quite a bit of good will and that it was the following off season that found him falling out of favor with some who had been supporters and many who were on the fence. It seems to me that it was THIS combined with the Betts trade and the 2021 trade deadline served as the catalyst of the negative connotation of "Fenway North". I don't think he came here with a bad rap, I think that the rap or rep is something that was born from his time here.
Absolutely agree. His work here is what has turned some of the fan base against him. I don’t think it really matters where he came from, but I think coming from Tampa was a positive to a far greater percentage of the fan base than it was a negative.
 

shepard50

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I'm in the sustained benefit of the doubt camp. He definitely improved the farm system, and steadily. He seems to be able to find some good short term FAs who bounce back/outperform expectations. He has had some misses there as well but, to me, more surprise hits than misses: Renfroe, Kike, Strahm, Wacha, Hill versus Richards, Marwin Gonzalez...

I expected some mix of staggering the sequence of graduating home grown talent with trading it. We are only beginning to hit the window now where I think there will be some trades of the blue chip guys (Casas, Whitlock, Houck, Rafaela, Bleis, Yorke, Mata) mixed with sign (Devers) or lose (Betts, Bogaerts). It's emotionally painful but seems smart, like a Rays+ model where you can keep some homegrown talent past team control, instead of losing it all at free agency.

The trading doesn't seem great. Benintendi, Vazquez and Renfroe seemed like particularly not amazing returns, but since it is mostly prospects, I am still hoping to be surprised. I didn't hate the deadline approach last year like most. I don't believe in fully folding a season unless you really know you have absolutely no chance and it did seem like we were in the running in July.

This offseason has been pretty challenging. I do love the Yoshida signing and giving Devers the big contract. I don't think Bogaerts' contract will be very attractive even halfway through it. But it does look like we missed out on adding a dependable SP that and the fact that we have virtually no middle infield, and we will now have to make desperation trades and FA signings to pull in 3 players between CF/2b/and SS just looks like bad scenario planning.

I expect things to be better this season than most seem to, and I expect us to contend regularly from next year on.
 

chrisfont9

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I never understood this. Why would he admit to us having a few bridge years? It would put us as a competitive disadvantage with signing free agents, trading players, etc. It would make fans upset. Piss off the media, etc. It would hurt ratings, kill attendance, cost people jobs etc.

What can they possibly gain by admitting they don't expect to contend the next few years?
Agree. If we know anything about how he operates, it's that they don't leak anything anymore. It is bizarre to me how many people think there is no plan -- why wouldn't there be a plan? Because they haven't come out and announced it? Sorry, they can only do so much fan service.
They aren‘t using the Tampa Bay model, they’re using the Dodgers one. But you can’t turn your minor league system into a pipeline in a year, players take 4-6 years to make their way through the system. So ‘23-‘25 is where we should see those players making their way to Boston and taking spots on the field. After that it’s a matter of identifying the areas where you can afford to splurge on elite talent.
Nailed it.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
This offseason has been pretty challenging. I do love the Yoshida signing and giving Devers the big contract. I don't think Bogaerts' contract will be very attractive even halfway through it. But it does look like we missed out on adding a dependable SP that and the fact that we have virtually no middle infield, and we will now have to make desperation trades and FA signings to pull in 3 players between CF/2b/and SS just looks like bad scenario planning.
I'm curious about the SP part. I wonder if they are hesitant to pull the trigger on what's out there this year -- was there anyone you really, really wanted? Because a year from now there's Otani, Urias, Manaea, Nola and maybe a few others. Then in 2025 there's a pretty large group including Tyler Glasnow. Maybe if you're secretly in a bridge year, you see if you can rehabilitate Paxton, get one or more of the kids locked in, and go for it big time with one of these guys. In that case you don't want to have locked in with Eovaldi, Wacha and whoever else was there this winter.
 

nighthob

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
11,705
For clarity sake I never said anything about Betts (here). I meant if you want to emulate the Dodgers FO, get someone from the Dodgers org.
The Dodgers front office came from Tampa. Boston was literally emulating LA. Bring in a Tampa exec to build out the farm and when players are graduating to provide minimum wage help sign some elite players to contend. We’ll be seeing the first fruits of that over the next 18 months.
 

Tony Pena's Gas Cloud

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 12, 2019
98
I think Bloom is an unmitigated disaster. I think he is horrible at baseball, has poor judgment, is way over his skis and extremely indecisive, causing him to miss out on opportunities (this is admitteldy fueled by media speculation).

His stunned reaction and depression over the Xander signing said a lot to me. How could you be surprised? Are you delusional? Do you not understand the market to that extent? And yes, the SS was a fine fellow, but you have a job to do.

I could dissect the moves and non-moves but the charts showing the team he inherited versus what he has converted those assets into says so much to me. The 2023 Red Sox, even before the Story debacle, were full of holes and would have been hard pressed to contend for anyting but the AL East cellar.

Devers was a nice save but (a) money talks and Boston is still a wonderful market to call home and (b) I do think that the public backlash and reaction to Henry at a hockey game played a role in the Sox willingness to extend themselves...again, I think it played a role. It's not the whole story.

And the huge caveat to all of this is whether Bloom is just an extension of ownership and is essentially being forced into what he's doing. I do not believe this is the case. But it's not necessarily binary and it's likely partially ownership driven and partially because Chaim Bloom is verfy bad at his job.

I had very few preconceived ideas about him. I liked that he had success in Tampa but didn't know how much of the results were down to him. He seemed earnest and even likable. So I was generally upbeat but not much more than that. The moves he made before last season (trading Renfroe, not signing Schwarber, not going after Iglesias for 2B, making the splash be Story (Colorado hitting inflation and down 2021) and not getting X done in advance made me worry that he was a problem and that he suffered from "smartest guy in the room" syndrome.

I still want to be wrong. Badly. I know the counter arguments but remain very surprised at the level of support he has here. I think SOME of that is wishcasting but again, I hope I am wrong.

Hell, I thought the Bruins were gonna struggle to make the playoffs and the Celts would not wet their pants at the sight of the GSW, so I have been wrong before. On the other hand, the Pats finished exactly where I thought they would and I made a nice amount of money betting against them this season, so I can be right, too. Long way of saying that my views of Bloom are barely worth a cup of coffee.

But I am more convinced that I am right than I was about any of the topics mentioned above.
Boston is a "wonderful market to call home"? You mean the terrible weather, antiquated park facilities, the "millionaire tax", sour media, demanding fans, oddly shaped field, and questionable racial history? Sure, who wouldn't want to sign up for a lifetime deal!
 

JCizzle

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 11, 2006
18,046
Boston is a "wonderful market to call home"? You mean the terrible weather, antiquated park facilities, the "millionaire tax", sour media, demanding fans, oddly shaped field, and questionable racial history? Sure, who wouldn't want to sign up for a lifetime deal!
Also describes the Yankees, Mets, and Phillies other than the facilities?
 

8slim

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 6, 2001
20,551
Unreal America
There’s no poll option that fits what I think. I figured he’d be what we expected from Billy Beane 20+ years ago: a GM who operated within the confines of a small market budget, who’d now have the benefit of utilizing big market money to build a team.

I never bought into the Tampa North stuff.

And I still haven’t made up my mind about him yet. I think I won’t really know until *maybe* the end of this season. By then I figure we’ll have a better read on the viability of the farm and if the young major league talent is good.
 

chawson

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 1, 2006
3,589
I didn’t mean him personally, Bloom is the same as every other front office guy: young, white, went to Yale, loves quarter zips and obsessed with McKinsian efficiency.
This may be peripheral to your post, but Bloom has always seemed like more of a baseball guy than this generation's wave of front office efficiency wonks. He was writing articles for Baseball Prospectus as a teenager (one byline puts him at age 16, though I don't know if it's correct) — and not just about surplus value. He gave a lengthy interview to our own Charlie Zink.

Maybe that doesn't move the needle for you, and I get it. He only wrote a few articles, but that era of BP was really sharp, and got me back into baseball when I was an undergrad, so it taps into a soft spot for me. Bloom also seems a bit more of a humanities guy to me than most business and economics types that run the game now.
 

shepard50

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 18, 2006
8,139
Sydney, Australia
I'm curious about the SP part. I wonder if they are hesitant to pull the trigger on what's out there this year -- was there anyone you really, really wanted? Because a year from now there's Otani, Urias, Manaea, Nola and maybe a few others. Then in 2025 there's a pretty large group including Tyler Glasnow. Maybe if you're secretly in a bridge year, you see if you can rehabilitate Paxton, get one or more of the kids locked in, and go for it big time with one of these guys. In that case you don't want to have locked in with Eovaldi, Wacha and whoever else was there this winter.
Yes, absolutely. Realistically I would have loved one of Rodon, Bassitt, Senga, Anderson...

And if you believe the rumour mills we were in on all of them. It looked like the strategy was blending: 1. the sunk cost big contracts (Sale) with 2. the high upside/risk guys (Paxton) and 3. young talent (Bello, Whitlock).

But adding a 4. dependable 10-20M AAV 2-4 year guy...

... would have, I presumed, rounded out the rotation strategy.

I would guess we missed out on those as much on money as on duration.
 

brandonchristensen

Loves Aaron Judge
SoSH Member
Feb 4, 2012
36,058
I never understood this. Why would he admit to us having a few bridge years? It would put us as a competitive disadvantage with signing free agents, trading players, etc. It would make fans upset. Piss off the media, etc. It would hurt ratings, kill attendance, cost people jobs etc.

What can they possibly gain by admitting they don't expect to contend the next few years?
2013 was a bridge year, you can still compete and fill your salary cap up in a bridge year. It just means that you have an expected window to “go for it” and that you’re moving your chess pieces to maximize that window.
 

chrisfont9

Member
SoSH Member
Boston is a "wonderful market to call home"? You mean the terrible weather, antiquated park facilities, the "millionaire tax", sour media, demanding fans, oddly shaped field, and questionable racial history? Sure, who wouldn't want to sign up for a lifetime deal!
And the fact that some huge percentage of the players are from the southern or southwestern states or Latin America and unless their dad is a transplanted New Englander there is zero reason for them to be at all impressed with the Sox, apart from baseball lore? I think the Sox have a bit of a brand advantage overseas, especially in Asia, but after that the competition for talent is pretty intense.
 

John Marzano Olympic Hero

has fancy plans, and pants to match
Dope
Apr 12, 2001
22,483
This may be peripheral to your post, but Bloom has always seemed like more of a baseball guy than this generation's wave of front office efficiency wonks. He was writing articles for Baseball Prospectus as a teenager (one byline puts him at age 16, though I don't know if it's correct) — and not just about surplus value. He gave a lengthy interview to our own Charlie Zink.

Maybe that doesn't move the needle for you, and I get it. He only wrote a few articles, but that era of BP was really sharp, and got me back into baseball when I was an undergrad, so it taps into a soft spot for me. Bloom also seems a bit more of a humanities guy to me than most business and economics types that run the game now.
I didn’t know that about him, that’s actually pretty cool.

Of all the things I think about Bloom, I never thought that he didn’t like baseball. There are some sports execs who I’m not sure like the sport that they work in, but I never thought Bloom was one of them. And the way that he obviously enjoys the draft process and building a team from the ground up, I think that’s a skill set where you really have to love baseball.

Because honestly for every Mayer you’re watching, you’re also watching a field full of dudes who are topping out at a D2 college.
 

Granite Sox

Member
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Feb 6, 2003
4,803
39.932N, -85.848W
I thought he was a “C” team hire from Tampa, whose model hasn’t necessarily generated WS success. The roster has degraded significantly over the past four seasons. There’s nothing meaningful that has come out of the farm, which had a pretty desultory 2022 aside from Bello. He has an eye for marginal talent, but hasn’t shown an ability to build a competitive roster with above-average financial resources. Re-signing the lone remaining premium player (acquired by a prior regime) is a bare minimum expectation, not reason for celebration.

He supposedly has a plan, which remains mystifying and unclear to many (most?).

Unproven on the way in, little in the way of success since he’s been here, and the current roster is a shambles. Not good.
 

nvalvo

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
20,221
Rogers Park
There’s no poll option that fits what I think. I figured he’d be what we expected from Billy Beane 20+ years ago: a GM who operated within the confines of a small market budget, who’d now have the benefit of utilizing big market money to build a team.

I never bought into the Tampa North stuff.

And I still haven’t made up my mind about him yet. I think I won’t really know until *maybe* the end of this season. By then I figure we’ll have a better read on the viability of the farm and if the young major league talent is good.
This is where I am. We should know pretty soon if the big picture of the roster turnover is going decently well.

These last few years have been confusing, because there were a lot of risky moves made in the effort to give the big league team a chance to contend without making irrational long-term commitments and while rebuilding the farm. Some worked: Whitlock was indeed worth $50,000 and a roster spot; we bought low on Renfroe, got a good season, and sold higher; Kiké took to a full-time role really well when healthy; etc. etc. Others didn't work: we bought low on Bradley, and he... didn't bounce back; we gave Franchy Cordero a bunch of playing time, and he didn't show much.

All told, we ended up with one catastrophic season, one great one, one marred by injury, a bunch of departing veterans and a much improved farm system.

Now it's time to convert that retrenched organizational depth into a stronger on-field product, and we'll see how he does.
 

lexrageorge

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 31, 2007
15,961
I do think that some do have unrealistic expectations for Bloom and this team. Every MLB team has a down year from time to time. In the 3 seasons that the team has played under Bloom, you had the 2020 CoVid year which was essentially considered to be a tank season from the ownership on down. That was followed by an ALCS appearance, which was a great turnaround from the prior season. And then a disappointing 2022 season where the team never truly contended.

I can understand the frustration over 2022. But given ownership's directive to focus on rebuilding the farm as a first priority, I'm not wiling to give Bloom the plank over the one down year. So I think it makes sense to see what happens this coming year with the new acquisitions and potential call ups.
 

bloodysox

lurker
Sep 25, 2011
2,754
Louisville, Colorado
Boston is a "wonderful market to call home"? You mean the terrible weather, antiquated park facilities, the "millionaire tax", sour media, demanding fans, oddly shaped field, and questionable racial history? Sure, who wouldn't want to sign up for a lifetime deal!
Boston’s weather isn’t that bad for 80-90% of the baseball season and half the time they’re on the road. And I’m pretty sure players polled about Fenway said they actually really enjoy playing there

The Red Sox pull in the 3rd most revenue for a reason, it’s an attractive market and a big sports city.

Not hard to bring in/retain top talent as long as we’re willing to spend near market value (Devers).
 

Shaky Walton

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 20, 2019
454
Boston is a "wonderful market to call home"? You mean the terrible weather, antiquated park facilities, the "millionaire tax", sour media, demanding fans, oddly shaped field, and questionable racial history? Sure, who wouldn't want to sign up for a lifetime deal!
So many Sox players, past and present, over the years have spoken about playing in front of passionate, caring and knowledgeable fans, at a banged out Fenway. And yes, Boston is an awesome city away from the park. I will give you the weather all day long.
 

shepard50

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 18, 2006
8,139
Sydney, Australia
So many Sox players, past and present, over the years have spoken about playing in front of passionate, caring and knowledgeable fans, at a banged out Fenway. And yes, Boston is an awesome city away from the park. I will give you the weather all day long.
I think the biggest city detractor is the racism. It never goes away. The "stick to sports" voices are loud in Boston any time one of our teams acknowledges BLM or Pride or anything having to do with social equality, and it can't just be me who sees it daily on twitter and in the comments sections of the internet. SOSH is not representative of the larger fanbase, which still has a long way to go in terms of being a welcoming/safe place for players of color.
 

jbupstate

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 1, 2022
133
New York, USA
What, exactly, does “super entitled fanbase” mean? Shouldn’t all fan bases want their team to win? I’m not sure why this is a bad thing.

Watching losing baseball doesn’t make you a better or smarter fan. You’re just watching shitty
Entitled and/or spoiled crowd -

- If we don’t win it all the season is a failure - constantly says that FSG is cheap, distracted and care more about racing, soccer and now hockey.
- thinks rich owners should spend all out no matter what and don’t think baseball is a business
- says the Sox should spend enough to win the player auction because they are a big market team and next day complain the overspent in Yoshida, Jansen and Turner
- loves to finds anything about Bloom or Henry to complain about… posture, phrasing and appearances
- thinks Dombrowski keeps the 2018 team intact and wins multiple championships while ignoring 2019 was bad, the farm was dead and Mookie was still going to FA

Not sure anyone can convince me Boston fans haven’t been spoiled these last 20 years. Entitled fans have no patience and say thing like FSG should sell the team so we can have ownership committed to winning and Kraft should can the great coach of all time.

SOSH absolutely ragged on Yankee fans for years for the No championship = Fail

I’m not that smart and don’t think my fandom makes me special. But I know the Sox from 2021 through end of June were a 90+ win team on the field. It’s not the dumpster fire people are making it out to be. We still have good players and hopefully more on the horizon.