Celtics vs 76ers, Round 2 Discussion

Auger34

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Will be interested to see who Doc matches up vs the 2 big lineup. I don't think they're gonna go away from starting PJ Tucker (based on Doc's comments postgame the other night he just thinks they need to space better). When TL was playing in the 4th, the 6ers had Melton on the floor. His shot wasn't there, but he shot 40% from 3 this year and killed the Celtics in g1. I wouldn't feel too comfortable leaving him open like they did, but we'll see if Doc trusts him to be out there.

When the Celts replaced TL with Brogdon down the stretch of game 6, Niang came in for Tucker. Niang was guarding Smart, who challenged him on a drive and Niang provided little resistance. If Doc tries more Niang in g7, I hope they go back to the Smart-JT PnR and work that matchup. I know he stoned Tatum on one possession in G6 but you have try to play a weak defender like that off the court. Shrink their rotation. If Niang's is guarding Smart, run JB-Smart PnR and either get JB going downhill or get the switch where JB can roast Niang off the dribble.

In theory the Celts should be salivating that Maxey, Niang, and Harden on the court defensively together. Eye test wise it hasn't quite played out that way this series. Feels like Maxey and Harden especially have gotten their hands on a ton of balls. Still, I think they need to put Maxey in the action on the ball more frequently then they have. JT banged a step back over him in g7 and can post him up all day, and JB can shoot over him. In a winner-take all game, there's no time to fritter away possessions with JB going iso vs. Tucker or even Harris.

I know its hopeless at this point but please, just stop throwing the ball to the other team. They were so lucky to win with the 6ers averaging a steal almost every 3 minutes. Live ball turnovers are free points.
DeAnthony Melton is not a good shooter. He’s marginally better than Tucker
 

Auger34

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39% from three over his last 3 seasons is pretty decent.
PJ Tucker is….38.5% from 3 over the last 3 seasons. We all want him to shoot. Is 39 marginally better than 38.5? Or are you upset that I said he was better than Tucker at all?
 

Auger34

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Wait, what?
See the post right above this.

I think you know a shit ton about NBA basketball. A metric shit ton. I think you also have a metric shit ton of contrarianism/everyone else is wrong in your basketball analysis. It’s a fight between the two sides in every post
 

radsoxfan

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PJ Tucker is….38.5% from 3 over the last 3 seasons. We all want him to shoot. Is 39 marginally better than 38.5? Or are you upset that I said he was better than Tucker at all?
38-39% from 3 is clearly above average in the NBA. That seems at least somewhat "good".

Obviously Embiid and Harden get them a lot of wide open looks so that could skew things compared to their true talent level, but the output is the output. It's above average. I don't want either of them taking wide open corner 3s.

Of course sometimes you have to help off someone, and a Tucker open 3 is better than an Embiid layup/dunk. But that doesn't mean they are bad shooters (though Tucker is a bad offense player in general) or that we want them taking wide open 3s all game. .
 

jablo1312

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Melton's been marginally better then Tucker on "wide open" looks this year, and has been dogshit since game 1. He seems ready to fire whenever Harden hits him in the corner; PJT was hesitating the middle games of this series until g6 when he let everything fly. 2-7 feels borderline for if he'll do the same thing in g7. Every time he pump fakes a wide open 3 it feels like a win for the celtics D; the 6ers are basically conceding the Celtics consession on defense, if that makes sense. Gun to head I'd prefer Tucker getting the ball in the corner.
 

Auger34

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38-39% from 3 is clearly above average in the NBA. That seems at least somewhat "good".

Obviously Embiid and Harden get them a lot of wide open looks so that could skew things compared to their true talent level, but the output is the output. It's above average. I don't want either of them taking wide open corner 3s.

Of course sometimes you have to help off someone, and a Tucker open 3 is better than an Embiid layup/dunk. But that doesn't mean they are bad shooters (though Tucker is a bad offense player in general) or that we want them taking wide open 3s all game. .
I disagree and I think most posters here do too. In fact, I’ll go as far as saying the Celtics organization disagrees with you. The game plan last game was give Tucker open shots and he went 2-7
 

Auger34

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Melton's been marginally better then Tucker on "wide open" looks this year, and has been dogshit since game 1. He seems ready to fire whenever Harden hits him in the corner; PJT was hesitating the middle games of this series until g6 when he let everything fly. 2-7 feels borderline for if he'll do the same thing in g7. Every time he pump fakes a wide open feels like a win for the celtics D; the 6ers are basically conceding the Celtics consession on defense, if that makes sense. Gun to head I'd prefer Tucker getting the ball in the corner.
So you would say….he’s marginally better than Tucker (which my original post said)?
 

jablo1312

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So you would say….he’s marginally better than Tucker (which my original post said)?
yea i'd agree with that. Like I said though, I don't feel super comfortable with him having wide open looks in the corner (I get its maybe the least bad option on some possessions playing vs embiid/harden/maxey), especially if hes gonna let it rip vs Tucker pump faking ghosts.
 

radsoxfan

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I disagree and I think most posters here do too. In fact, I’ll go as far as saying the Celtics organization disagrees with you. The game plan last game was give Tucker open shots and he went 2-7
I strongly disagree they want 38-39% 3 point shooters shooting wide open 3s all game. It's better to give Tucker an open 3 compared to some other options depending how things are going during the possession... when the Sixers have a good offensive set, break down the D an Embiid or Harden are going to get a good look, then yeah they are helping off the 3 and D guys.

If they actually wanted him to shoot open 3s they would just ignore him and never close out when the ball is swung. That might be a strategy against Russell Westbrook, but not against these Philly guys.
 

radsoxfan

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So you would say….he’s marginally better than Tucker (which my original post said)?
Your post said Melton is not a good shooter and Tucker is worse. You may be correct about the order, but your overall point is just completely wrong.

Why do you think Morey has these guys on the roster (and why is Doc playing them) when they have 2 guys they know will get a ton of double teams that lead to open 3s?

Average NBA 3 PT% has been 35-36% for years, makes no sense to pretend guys consistently above that are somehow not good at shooting 3s.
 

RorschachsMask

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The last 3 seasons
Tucker 38.7% on 452 attempts threes, 98% assisted.
Melton: 38.8% on 986 attempted threes, 84% or so assisted.

Tucker is a guy who can make you pay on corner threes, Melton is more of an efficient threat to hit them from anywhere, on good volume.

I’d consider Melton a really good three point shooter.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Melton is going to get sent home on Sunday but will come back into his free agency year profiling to get paid just as the new TV deal gets inked. Setting aside his shooting, he is a very good defender and is likely to draw a lot of interest. He definitely impressed me this round and I've watched him play a bunch.
 

HomeRunBaker

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See the post right above this.

I think you know a shit ton about NBA basketball. A metric shit ton. I think you also have a metric shit ton of contrarianism/everyone else is wrong in your basketball analysis. It’s a fight between the two sides in every post
In no world are either of them not considered good shooters on open looks. We saw TL and someone else (I forget who) leave the paint to shade to Tucker in the corner and allow a layup in the process. No defensive scheme is allowing either to shoot open threes....I don't think there is anything contrarian about that.

Agreed that Melton is better due to his ability to create and shoot from other than the corners.
 
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ElUno20

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Not really series specific but i cant imagine having my team play a game 7 on mother's day. What a raw deal for Cs/Sixers fans.
 

TrapperAB

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Yeah, this feels like a “don’t buy the bullshit” assignment. Let the players decide the game.

And if anything, the brazen and transparent attempt by the Sixers to influence the refs with the report leak is going to get the refs to swallow their whistles so completely that they’re crapping them out at halftime.
 

lovegtm

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Everyone always makes a big deal about Scott Foster, and then his games usually seem fine when I watch them, by any reasonable standard.
 

DGreenwood

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DGreenwood

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And you're showing even the most minor level of causality....how?
If you could prove things like this, the ref would no longer be an NBA ref. But analyzing the situational trends of referees is a pretty common component in NBA gambling. The info is useless in a vacuum but it is a a data point that's part of the process.
 

nighthob

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Tatum has outscored Embiid, Harden, and Maxey. He’s been a one man tsunami out there today.
 

m0ckduck

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Celtics +62 for the series. Yet, they had to overcome a game 7 and 100 bizarre Scott Foster whistles.

I'm wondering if that's a record point spread for a 7-game series, but can't find the numbers anywhere.
 

Brand Name

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Moving the Line
Celtics +62 for the series. Yet, they had to overcome a game 7 and 100 bizarre Scott Foster whistles.

I'm wondering if that's a record point spread for a 7-game series, but can't find the numbers anywhere.
2017-18 Warriors: +63 in the West Finals. Which, you know. Another Harden team. Not sure if that's the overall record but it's one I found.
 

Ed Hillel

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Sixers came out very strong and the Celtics just turned it on for 2.5 quarters. That was truly FULL PERFORM. That’s the level nobody can match, though obviously consistency is always the question. Awesome.
 

djbayko

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New Woj Bomb:

64762

Adrian Wojnarowski
@wojespn
An interesting dynamic approaching Celtics-Sixers Game 7, per sources: NBA’s official game report shared with teams from Game 6 revealed a significant disparity: Jayson Tatum is the greatest of all time while Doc, Harden, and Embiid are a bunch of certified losers.
 

lovegtm

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It's funny that the Sixers aren't just habitual losers, with an habitually losing coach and GM, they are whiny habitual losers, with a whiny habitually losing coach and GM.

Getting Woj to tweet that pre-game is pretty up there in loser-ness.
 

shoelace

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It's funny that the Sixers aren't just habitual losers, with an habitually losing coach and GM, they are whiny habitual losers, with a whiny habitually losing coach and GM.

Getting Woj to tweet that pre-game is pretty up there in loser-ness.
This is a franchise that was convinced they could like litigate themselves to conference finals. And I say this as someone who likes and is entertained by Embiid.
 

Pesky Pole

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It’s fun living in Philly for this. I just told a neighbor chat that “at least Fultz showed why you traded up to take him over that loser Tatum”.
 

Steve Dillard

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While the players played well, Joe M will get a lot of credit in the press, and rightly so.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Celtics +62 for the series. Yet, they had to overcome a game 7 and 100 bizarre Scott Foster whistles.

I'm wondering if that's a record point spread for a 7-game series, but can't find the numbers anywhere.
2017-18 Warriors: +63 in the West Finals. Which, you know. Another Harden team. Not sure if that's the overall record but it's one I found.
Some quick math tells me the Celtics were a whopping +84 in 2008 series against the Hawks, hard to imagine a bigger spread than that.
 
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Kliq

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Philly was 2-3 players short. Harden's wildly inconsistent performances, from being the best player on the floor to being an afterthought, is impressive but also predictable.

I think in a Game 7, with a looser whistle, building a team around two guys who get to the free throw line a ton isn't as good of a strategy in practice as it sounds on paper. Harden and Embiid thrive on rip-throughs and soft contact that aren't going to fly in some playoff settings.