Celtics vs 76ers, Round 2 Discussion

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,949
Wikipedia says her parents were from Long Island which is where she was born, and "Her basketball idols growing up were Kyle Macy, Kelly Tripucka and Tommy Heinsohn", so I'm not seeing a whole lot to suggest a latent Sixers fandom.
From Wiki:

Doris Sable was born on April 11, 1965, in West Islip, New York[2] She was raised in Manasquan, New Jersey,[3][4] having moved from New York when she was seven years old.[5] She played as a point guard at Manasquan High School[6]
 

Deathofthebambino

Drive Carefully
SoSH Member
Apr 12, 2005
41,949
Wikipedia says her parents were from Long Island which is where she was born, and "Her basketball idols growing up were Kyle Macy, Kelly Tripucka and Tommy Heinsohn", so I'm not seeing a whole lot to suggest a latent Sixers fandom.

I gotta say, it seems like she bothers a bunch of you, but I haven't minded her. Some of the cliches have seemed forced, or even scripted, but I haven't found her to be, like, Tim McCarver-esque in terms of slobbering over the bigger stars or something. She's good at analyzing the game when she chooses to. She's not the best basketball announcer I've ever listened to, but she's far from the worst.
FTR, I'm actually someone that doesn't hate her. I think thats the only post I've ever made about her (generally, I don't care or notice announcers), and it was really about her PC connection, but she has absolutely been breathlessly slobbering over Embiid and Harden all series.

Tripucka was a NJ HS basketball legend. Macy and Heinsohn are both way, way older than her, so I'm pretty sure she was looking up to them because of their announcing, not for their playing. And well, we're all Tommy fans, he was a homer's homer, and I love him for it.
 

dhellers

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 31, 2005
4,209
Silver Spring, Maryland
Wikipedia says her parents were from Long Island which is where she was born, and "Her basketball idols growing up were Kyle Macy, Kelly Tripucka and Tommy Heinsohn", so I'm not seeing a whole lot to suggest a latent Sixers fandom.

I gotta say, it seems like she bothers a bunch of you, but I haven't minded her. Some of the cliches have seemed forced, or even scripted, but I haven't found her to be, like, Tim McCarver-esque in terms of slobbering over the bigger stars or something. She's good at analyzing the game when she chooses to. She's not the best basketball announcer I've ever listened to, but she's far from the worst.
The problem with Doris is her fall from competency. She used to be a coherent and insightful analysis. Now she is a rambling glad handler. I blame the corporates, they figure real fans will watch regardless, so the color people have to appeal to the casual idiot.

In general I find the 2nd tier games have better announcers, maybe because they can speak about basketball.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,758
FTR, I'm actually someone that doesn't hate her. I think thats the only post I've ever made about her (generally, I don't care or notice announcers), and it was really about her PC connection, but she has absolutely been breathlessly slobbering over Embiid and Harden all series.

Tripucka was a NJ HS basketball legend. Macy and Heinsohn are both way, way older than her, so I'm pretty sure she was looking up to them because of their announcing, not for their playing. And well, we're all Tommy fans, he was a homer's homer, and I love him for it.
Macy was a folk hero for unathletic, fundamentally sound basketball players Doris’ age. I remember one of Billy Packer/Al Maguire elevating him to basketball Einstein status because he used to dry his sweaty hands on his bulky socks at the FT line, where he seemed to live.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Macy was a folk hero for unathletic, fundamentally sound basketball players Doris’ age. I remember one of Billy Packer/Al Maguire elevating him to basketball Einstein status because he used to dry his sweaty hands on his bulky socks at the FT line, where he seemed to live.
Yeah, Macy was "America's PG" for kids growing up around Doris' age. The poster boy for coach on the floor, HS All-American, college All-American and the best damn haircut this side of Mark Price!
 

Justthetippett

New Member
Aug 9, 2015
2,393
Doris is following the track many announcers take (Romo, for example). Get the job because of competence, become corporate IP, get over exposed, turn to shit.

That said, outside of a series against him, Embiid is pretty easy to root for. I'm sure the League would love a Den/Phi finals.
 

bankshot1

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 12, 2003
24,662
where I was last at
Just doing some quick math Doris's love of Heinsohn wasn't as a player and probably not as a coach, but rather as an announcer doing national games in the 80s or when she was playing ball as a student athlete at PC and she could hear his work with Gorman. Or maybe she has a thing for Jersey Boys who played for Catholic schools.

If she enjoyed Tommy's work with and from behind the Mike, (I like that one) her style is far different than Tommy's. But both share(d) a passion for the game. She loves basketball which gets her bankshot points. I think her prep is strong and she likes to show off and prove she did her homework, which can be a little much. And can overtaken by her pregame narrative in which she is heavily invested and maybe a little slow to deviate from. I think her game has slipped as she has gotten bigger and she believes her own BS, but IMO she remains one of the more prepared analysts as she had to be to get the job over a far less prepared former NBA player.
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,932
To me it sounds like the just gasses everyone up. When Tatum is 0-30, she gushes about how he impacts the game with defense, assists. So, while she may annoy when she's gassing up the Sixers, I'm sure their fans scream about how she's lauding Tatum even though he's dog poo.
Same with next level guys like Smart and Maxey, and parts like Rob Williams.
At least she seems to question the refs and whether something is a foul, vs. the JVG "oh, there's the foul" on any contact which ignores that every play has contact and could justify a foul.
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,127
Santa Monica
I'm surprised there hasn't been more Double BIG grumbling after how successful it was last season.

For the record, Horford/TimeLord this season in 332 minutes: 119 off rtg // 103 def rtg // +16

My only concern with it, which applies to this series only, is the Maxey match-up problem. White seems to be the only guy that can slow him down. Marcus needs to get up on him, no sitting back at the 3pt line, and letting Tyrese get momentum.

If they move on, Double BIG will work well against Denver, Miami, & Lakers. Boston will desperately need Grant to show up as the 8th man spelling Al/TL
 

NomarsFool

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 21, 2001
8,160
Lately the Celtics’ offense has felt so forced. Aside from when they are taking threes it seems like Tatum and Brown are often fighting to get through defensive players if they are off ball, and then look like they are trying so hard when they have the ball. Seems like such a far cry from Game 1 when for much of the game they were just cruising to the rim.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Doris is following the track many announcers take (Romo, for example). Get the job because of competence, become corporate IP, get over exposed, turn to shit.

That said, outside of a series against him, Embiid is pretty easy to root for. I'm sure the League would love a Den/Phi finals.
I'm fairly confident that there is another possible Finals that the league would love much, much more than a Den/Phi one.
 

lovegtm

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 30, 2013
12,001
Lately the Celtics’ offense has felt so forced. Aside from when they are taking threes it seems like Tatum and Brown are often fighting to get through defensive players if they are off ball, and then look like they are trying so hard when they have the ball. Seems like such a far cry from Game 1 when for much of the game they were just cruising to the rim.
Huh, I wonder what changed from game 1 near the rim.
 

Eddie Jurak

canderson-lite
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2002
44,480
Melrose, MA
I'm surprised there hasn't been more Double BIG grumbling after how successful it was last season.

For the record, Horford/TimeLord this season in 332 minutes: 119 off rtg // 103 def rtg // +16
When our only two playoff caliber bigs are age 37 and Rob, I get a bit nervous about relying on them for too many minutes together. I wish Kornet or Muscala had worked out better so that there was a decent spot-minutes third option.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
SoSH Member
Oct 1, 2015
24,393
When our only two playoff caliber bigs are age 37 and Rob, I get a bit nervous about relying on them for too many minutes together. I wish Kornet or Muscala had worked out better so that there was a decent spot-minutes third option.
Can’t Blake eat up 6-7 minutes semi-effectively? He can still shoot and is strong and has tons of experience. Yes he’s not remotely the athlete he once was and nobody has ever mistaken him for Bill Russell on the defensive end of the floor, but can’t he give you SOMETHING useful for a few minutes?
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,593
Here
When our only two playoff caliber bigs are age 37 and Rob, I get a bit nervous about relying on them for too many minutes together. I wish Kornet or Muscala had worked out better so that there was a decent spot-minutes third option.
It’s the playoffs, though. I understand fear for Rob, but if you aren’t saving him for the playoffs against a top 5 team, what are you saving him for? They need to run with it and hope it works out.
 

Humphrey

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 3, 2010
3,163
During the decline phase of his NBA broadcast career, Dick Stockton once described a camera angle as giving fans a "birds eye worm view."
Stockton had some good snafus- one was saying a grounder hit the base in foul territory. No part of a base is in foul territory!
 

benhogan

Granite Truther
SoSH Member
Nov 2, 2007
20,127
Santa Monica
When our only two playoff caliber bigs are age 37 and Rob, I get a bit nervous about relying on them for too many minutes together. I wish Kornet or Muscala had worked out better so that there was a decent spot-minutes third option.
The TL/Rob (age/health) conundrum has been an 18-mth ongoing story that needs to be addressed by Brad this Summer (springy defense-first backup BIG is needed)

For this series, they only need to play Double BIG when Embiid is on the floor.

Plus Grant should be able to give them ~12 credible minutes. I also wouldn't be opposed to 4-5 first-half Blake minutes, who grifts charges in the lane, adds energy, & the spotlight won't be too glaring for him.

CJM has fallen in love with 5-wide & the phrase "spacing" when 4-wide with TL's vertical spacing gives them plenty of offensive options and better defense. Plus Joe can't forget about White on the bench, which he has a tendency to do.
 

joe dokes

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 18, 2005
30,249
It’s the playoffs, though. I understand fear for Rob, but if you aren’t saving him for the playoffs against a top 5 team, what are you saving him for? They need to run with it and hope it works out.
I think this is where the team has to be with usage now. Also, with 2 days off (and two more if they win), I suspect that both Horford and Williams can max out their minutes (?40 for Horford; 30 for Williams?)
 

Montana Fan

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 18, 2000
8,882
Twin Bridges, Mt.
FTR, I'm actually someone that doesn't hate her. I think thats the only post I've ever made about her (generally, I don't care or notice announcers), and it was really about her PC connection, but she has absolutely been breathlessly slobbering over Embiid and Harden all series.
Not sure if you remember Dick Stockton and our own Tommy calling the NBA Championships from 84-87. Three of those series were C’s vs. LA. Tommy was a great color man but I’m certain that the Lakers fans hated having to listen to him. I loved it outside of losing 2 of those series to LA.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

Member
SoSH Member
Mar 26, 2005
30,506
They talked about this quote on the Hoop Collective pod, and provided some useful context. According to Bontemps and others on the Cetlics' beat "rightfully so" is a verbal tic for Marcus Smart. He uses it every few sentences the way some people would say "you know." I have not listened to enough Smart press avails to back that up, but if accurate that lessens the sting of what Smart said substantially. Though the larger message that Jaylen, Jayson and Smart were clearly in favor of going back to the two bigs line up.
I just heard the entire clip (on Forsberg's post-game pod) where Smart talks about Joe and he only said "rightfully so" that one time FWIW.

Also, there's one other clip that was even more, err, forthright, where Smart says something to the effect of, "Even if the coach does something we don't agree with, the players have yo do the right thing."

Not surprised it's a different relationship between players and Coach Joe given they are about the same age.
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,758
From three, Boston is 38-108 in the three losses, .361, and 51 for 131 in the three wins, .389.

Boston needs to let it fly from long range Sunday, hopefully after either ball movement or kickout passes from paint drives

Besides getting on track early offensively, Boston has to come out with a strong first quarter defensively. In the three Philly wins, the Sixers put up 31, 27, and 33 points in the first. In their three losses, 22, 29, 22. Boston‘s lacity of initial defensive intensity to start game one gave the Sixer role players confidence on offense, even though Boston won the first quarter, and their slow start in the other two losses, minus 8 and minus 7 first quarters, allowed the Sixers to front run those two wins.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,069
Hingham, MA
361 vs 389 over 3 games of each is basically one more 3 per game. I mean yeah I guess that could have been the difference in game 1 or 4 but it seems meaningless.
 

HomeRunBaker

bet squelcher
SoSH Member
Jan 15, 2004
30,096
Players not agreeing with the coach.....this has literally gone on since Naismith. When is tip-off?
 

TripleOT

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 4, 2007
7,758
361 vs 389 over 3 games of each is basically one more 3 per game. I mean yeah I guess that could have been the difference in game 1 or 4 but it seems meaningless.
The volume of threes has to be considered along with the percentages, along with the total advantage/deficit from three. Philly with 21 more points from three in game one, and even from three in their second win (-12 in their third win). Boston plus 42, even, plus 21 from three in their two wins.

The other big factor is Horford, who is 0 for his last 10 from deep in the series. If he can make a few threes early, he can loosen up the paint by making Embiid guard him. AL needs to be a game seven Grant Williams against the Bucks tomorrow.
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
37,069
Hingham, MA
The volume of threes has to be considered along with the percentages, along with the total advantage/deficit from three. Philly with 21 more points from three in game one, and even from three in their second win (-12 in their third win). Boston plus 42, even, plus 21 from three in their two wins.

The other big factor is Horford, who is 0 for his last 10 from deep in the series. If he can make a few threes early, he can loosen up the paint by making Embiid guard him. AL needs to be a game seven Grant Williams against the Bucks tomorrow.
But look at how many they shot. If they are letting em rip they are playing well.
Fully agree on Al.

And I see what you are saying about volume. Nearly 8 more attempts per game in the wins, which means ~3 more makes per game, which means ~9ppg.
 

Steve Dillard

wishes drew noticed him instead of sweet & sour
SoSH Member
Oct 7, 2003
5,932
I've seen enough instances of Tatum in the first half having some daylight at the 3 pt line after a pick but not taking it. Not wide open, but with more time than many of his other 3s. His hesitancy probably accounts for a large part of that reduction.
 

radsoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Aug 9, 2009
13,622
There goes that man again, taking a Game 7 day off.

The last thing anyone needs in a Game 7 is more Mark Jackson.
Egh.

Come on Jeff, trade off-days with Mark for this one.

Not even a huge JVG guy but he's certainly much better than Jackson in a 2 man booth.
 

McBride11

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 15, 2005
22,114
Durham, NC
Can’t Blake eat up 6-7 minutes semi-effectively? He can still shoot and is strong and has tons of experience. Yes he’s not remotely the athlete he once was and nobody has ever mistaken him for Bill Russell on the defensive end of the floor, but can’t he give you SOMETHING useful for a few minutes?
And honestly with Al’s shooting slump, if he can hit a few 3s to draw joel out, helps team.
 

kazuneko

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 10, 2006
2,818
Honolulu HI
Egh.

Come on Jeff, trade off-days with Mark for this one.

Not even a huge JVG guy but he's certainly much better than Jackson in a 2 man booth.
How is that Mark Jackson has been the dominant color guy in the NBA for nearly 10 years? Honestly I don’t get JVG’s success either. I’d literally take any other two broadcasters in the game over either of them..

JVG and Jackson going on w/ fake macho moxie about flopping during last night's game was driving me nuts. Why is it these wimps feel having a national platform means they have to prove their manliness to the world -- yes, players of today are wimpy children compared to tough guys JVG and Jackson, now can we pay attention to the game? (Not to mention Barkley and fat Shaq who couldn't bother to get in shape embarrassing themselves on TNT etc etc...)
 

Tony C

Moderator
Moderator
SoSH Member
Apr 13, 2000
13,695
I don't mind JVG as much as his brother. But agree that Mark Jackson is the worst of the worst.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,593
Here
I don't mind JVG as much as his brother. But agree that Mark Jackson is the worst of the worst.
JVG is fine…WITH THE NOTED EXCEPTION that he starts every sentence with “and,” even if it’s apropos of nothing.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,303
The color commentator situation in the NBA is really, really bad. Doris Burke, Mark Jackson, Reggie Miller, Richard Jefferson are all awful. Grant Hill is mediocre which makes him look good. The Van Gundy bros love to whine about one SPEDIFIC thing every game.

JJ Redick and Jim Jackson are the best we have….and Jim Jackson isn’t fantastic when not graded on a curve.
 

Ed Hillel

Wants to be startin somethin
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2007
43,593
Here
I think Doris Burke is pretty good, despite her weird fascination with the Sixers this series and weird 0-2 thing. I always enjoy listening as a neutral.
 

Auger34

used to be tbb
SoSH Member
Apr 23, 2010
9,303
I think Doris Burke is pretty good, despite her weird fascination with the Sixers this series and weird 0-2 thing. I always enjoy listening as a neutral.
I was with you last year…but I couldn’t stand listening to her call the Celtics last year and this year has reached a new low.

I literally muted the game just to not listen to her anymore. I’ve never done that before in 25 years of watching sports. That includes people like Tim McCarver, Anthony McFarland and Jason Witten
 

jablo1312

New Member
Sep 20, 2005
970
Will be interested to see who Doc matches up vs the 2 big lineup. I don't think they're gonna go away from starting PJ Tucker (based on Doc's comments postgame the other night he just thinks they need to space better). When TL was playing in the 4th, the 6ers had Melton on the floor. His shot wasn't there, but he shot 40% from 3 this year and killed the Celtics in g1. I wouldn't feel too comfortable leaving him open like they did, but we'll see if Doc trusts him to be out there.

When the Celts replaced TL with Brogdon down the stretch of game 6, Niang came in for Tucker. Niang was guarding Smart, who challenged him on a drive and Niang provided little resistance. If Doc tries more Niang in g7, I hope they go back to the Smart-JT PnR and work that matchup. I know he stoned Tatum on one possession in G6 but you have try to play a weak defender like that off the court. Shrink their rotation. If Niang's is guarding Smart, run JB-Smart PnR and either get JB going downhill or get the switch where JB can roast Niang off the dribble.

In theory the Celts should be salivating that Maxey, Niang, and Harden on the court defensively together. Eye test wise it hasn't quite played out that way this series. Feels like Maxey and Harden especially have gotten their hands on a ton of balls. Still, I think they need to put Maxey in the action on the ball more frequently then they have. JT banged a step back over him in g7 and can post him up all day, and JB can shoot over him. In a winner-take all game, there's no time to fritter away possessions with JB going iso vs. Tucker or even Harris.

I know its hopeless at this point but please, just stop throwing the ball to the other team. They were so lucky to win with the 6ers averaging a steal almost every 3 minutes. Live ball turnovers are free points.