Yeah I found that odd too. Point guard seems like a natural fit. Once he figures out the Celtics offense, and he already looks like he's well on his way, he's going to do great there. Would rather see him at point than Smart.
Celtics trade Josh Richardson, Romeo Langford and a 1st round pick to Spurs for Derrick White
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He has more point guard skills than anyone who has played on the Celtics this year.
To pile on the “pro White” stuff, I think he is exactly the kind of player you want with Tatum and Brown coming into their primes.
Essentially an elite role player. Definitely not a top 2 player on a title team, but also definitely worthy of a great crunch time 5 lineup spot. Above average D, high basketball IQ, multi position player. I hope the shot comes around a bit from early this season.
Lotto tickets for superstars have a lot of value in the NBA, but much less to a team like the Celtics in 2022. If you believe in Tatum and Brown (as I think they do), you need to be spending all resources and effort to be getting guys like Smart, Rob, and White to surround them rather than shooting for the next Tatum.
White is still young and his contract is reasonable, an added bonus. People shouldn’t expect elite box score stats numbers from him, just all around solid play like in his Celtics debut.
A huge upgrade from JRich, DS, Romeo etc.
Essentially an elite role player. Definitely not a top 2 player on a title team, but also definitely worthy of a great crunch time 5 lineup spot. Above average D, high basketball IQ, multi position player. I hope the shot comes around a bit from early this season.
Lotto tickets for superstars have a lot of value in the NBA, but much less to a team like the Celtics in 2022. If you believe in Tatum and Brown (as I think they do), you need to be spending all resources and effort to be getting guys like Smart, Rob, and White to surround them rather than shooting for the next Tatum.
White is still young and his contract is reasonable, an added bonus. People shouldn’t expect elite box score stats numbers from him, just all around solid play like in his Celtics debut.
A huge upgrade from JRich, DS, Romeo etc.
Fun fact: White is about 4 months younger than Marcus Smart.
Not fun fact: The knock on White is that he is injury prone.
Not fun fact: The knock on White is that he is injury prone.
Mostly driven by last year, when he only played 36 games. I think he broke a toe, was out for a while, came back, and very quickly broke the same toe in a different place.
San Antonio's played two games since the trade. Don't think Romeo has even gotten there yet. Seems consistent with his "Out of Service Pervis"-like three years in Boston.
Brogdon isn't necessary now
really thought "ballhandler" was this summer's business.
Credit to PBS on getting it done this season even though it was a small overpay
Brogdon isn’t an upgrade, really. He did make sense before the White trade, since he would cost little more than Horford and a weak draft asset, but what acquiring White does is let you use Horford in a different trade (if one is out there).
Neither did J-Rich. Usually traded players are only with the team the day or two after a trade if they are playing at home as the player is already in town getting settled like White was.
White's BBall IQ jumped off the screen against DEN. Certainly immediately becomes the Cs highest BBall IQ among non-big IMO. Maybe the highest period.
Here is an article from a Spurs website that discusses maybe why SAS traded him: https://airalamo.com/posts/why-san-antonio-spurs-ran-out-patience-derrick-white. I'll note that after the Bubble where White averaged 19+ ppg and shot 39% from 3P land, it seems that some thought that White might make another leap to All-Star level.
In terms of shooting, my eye test tells me that despite the numbers, White is a much better shooter than JRIch and will have ton more gravity. White's release is exponentially quicker than JRich's and his mechanics cleaner. Eyeballing White's stats, it looks like White has been consistently a 35% to 38% shooter on wide-open threes but his decline this year is due to being down to 25% on open 3Ps, which is a low for the last few years. It will be interesting to see if opponents give White the same looks that JRich get - which I am pretty sure will mean that White's 3P% is going to be much higher - or whether teams are going to leave more room for JT and JB.
White’s a combo G, and Boston’s clearly hanging its hat on a two combo G and speed approach (with the TimeLord/Tatum/Brown front court). And there’s nothing wrong with that, because that’s a killer defensive unit that won’t have many offensive holes.
I hate the types of deadline deals, in any sport, where a struggling team is trying to pull off the brillant move that vaults it back into contention.
The White deal was the opposite of that: a team that had finally started to figure things out added a perfect complementary player - one who can fit into what they are doing on defense (the team's calling card) and help them start to figure out their offensive issues. And a guy who can be here for another few years.
The White deal was the opposite of that: a team that had finally started to figure things out added a perfect complementary player - one who can fit into what they are doing on defense (the team's calling card) and help them start to figure out their offensive issues. And a guy who can be here for another few years.
Feels very similar to the Jrue deal the Bucks made, except that White is younger, much cheaper, and not as good a scorer.
The Celtics don't need a scorer as much as other teams, so it's a good tradeoff.
I'd be fine if he's as good a shooter as Jrue. At the time the Bucks acquired him, Jrue was a career 35% 3pt guy on similar attempts/36 as White. Jrue has always had a higher AST% than White, although a lot of that was due to him being the on-ball guy in NO. Jrue is a much better volume 2Pt scorer.
As defenders, they're very similar size and length, with similar ability to defend 1-3 well and hold their own on bigger switches.
The other big differences between them are that White is 4 years younger, and makes $17M/year going forward as opposed to Jrue's $37M (!!) for his age 32-35 seasons.
Also, since the deals and players have a lot of similarities (get an elite glue guy to go with your stars), worth noting that while we were losing our minds about a top-1 protected pick swap, Milwaukee dealt 2 unprotected 1sts and 2 unprotected swaps for Holiday, along with a #24 pick.
White's Injury when he got tied up with Clark
Edit: I just saw @Deathofthebambino update. "Just an elbow contusion, he was back on the bench and eligible to return, but the C's were laying it on at that point."
Edit: I just saw @Deathofthebambino update. "Just an elbow contusion, he was back on the bench and eligible to return, but the C's were laying it on at that point."
Look at how little the then 23-year-old Derrick White played as a rookie with the Spurs, before becoming a regular the following season. I wouldn't read too much negative into Romeo not playing with SA just yet.
He was a rookie though. Langford is young for sure, but has 2.5 years under his belt.
Exactly zero of it playing for Pop. No way to differentiate between "Pop view him as a project who will need time" and "Pop has no interest in him and he will be moving on soon." Either could be the case.
True but isn’t it more about years of control though? Romeo will need a new contract soon whereas Derrick White was a rookie who they had for cheap for a few years.
None of us know but I’m more inclined to believe that Romeo was much more of a salary filler in the trade than someone Pop was pounding the table for
Yeah, of all the things to copy about Nomah, the gloves? Probably explains why Derrick ended up playing basketball!
First time I’ve seen Johnny Joe in an interview role. One of the good guys. Bleeds Boston through and through.
Romeo played 16 minutes and shot 3-4 from the field but only 1-4 from the line for 7 points. Was a +13 in a game the Spurs won by 7.
Will be interesting if he’s extended this summer. Very unusual not to, but the guy really hasn’t produced.
My initial thought was "yeah, I'd be down", but I think the team is really, really going to prioritize shooting in everyone it acquires over the summer or takes as a reclamation project. If the price is cheap enough though, I'd do it, just because he knows the system already and provides good defensive depth.
As you said, I think his defense fits well with Ime's system - knows the team already, so I think there are a lot of positives there. I'd be certainly willing to have them spend small money to give him the #10 spot on the roster as I think he is playable. The CBA wouldn't prevent the Celtics from signing him if the Spurs released him, would it? I know you can't do that in-season, but seems a bit odd if that was the case off-season, too.
Why would Romeo come back to BOS? He really needs to go somewhere he can play and actually handle the ball. Given some of the lack of defense in this league, you'd like one or another team would at least tell him he's going to get regular minutes and do more than stand in the corner on offense.
Back to Derrick White. Lack of comments about him is a good thing. Was looking around some 2 man lineup statistics on NBA.com since 2.10.22, two things struck me. (1) the Smart+White combo plays at the highest pace at 101.90. (Second is Brown+Tatum at 100.74). (2) the Smart+White combo has the 3rd highest Ast% at 69.4. White is in 4 of the top 5 lineups. #1 is actually Brown+White at 69.9%. (Horford+GW is #2 at 69.6%; #4 = White+GW and #5 is White+Horford)
Finally, here's a fun comment from White in his post-CHA interview about charges taken: https://nesn.com/2022/03/derrick-white-takes-playful-jab-at-marcus-smart-after-win-vs-hornets/
Back to Derrick White. Lack of comments about him is a good thing. Was looking around some 2 man lineup statistics on NBA.com since 2.10.22, two things struck me. (1) the Smart+White combo plays at the highest pace at 101.90. (Second is Brown+Tatum at 100.74). (2) the Smart+White combo has the 3rd highest Ast% at 69.4. White is in 4 of the top 5 lineups. #1 is actually Brown+White at 69.9%. (Horford+GW is #2 at 69.6%; #4 = White+GW and #5 is White+Horford)
Finally, here's a fun comment from White in his post-CHA interview about charges taken: https://nesn.com/2022/03/derrick-white-takes-playful-jab-at-marcus-smart-after-win-vs-hornets/
White was then asked if he had a competition going with Smart given that the Celtics veteran long has been known as a gritty player who does the same.
“I mean, what’s Smart in the league? You know that?,” White responded.
White is second in the NBA with 24 charges this season. Smart is lagging behind, tied for 14th with 11. When those statistics were revealed to White, he had a comical reaction.
“Not even top ten? C’mon Smart!,” White joked.
If he has his choice of where to go, he may not pick Boston. Not sure he'll have much of a choice. He'll play for whoever wants to pay him.
There aren't too many comps of guys picked in the middle of the first round, played as few minutes as Langford has, and gotten a multi year deal after their rookie deal.
Seems most guys get a 1 year at the minimum sort of thing or go to the G league and get some 10 days
This sounds right to me. Kid has flashed enough at times for someone to roll the dice on upside, assuming a bad fit thing. But not enough to commit multi year money.
The same one that paid Dante Exum 3/$8m, Abdul Nader 2/$4m, and Jordan McLaughlin 3/$8.5m last summer.
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Seems like a good place to ask a bit about the NBA trade rules, since I'm not sure I quite have this right.
The Celtics traded Romeo, so if he had a longer-term contract, they could not re-acquire him for one year, right?
However, if his contract expires, then they can sign him July 1.
What does that mean for making an offer to him as a restricted free agent? Does that mean they can sign him, but cannot get him in a sign-and-trade? Does the RFA mean that they can only sign him if he chooses not to sign an RFA deal, gets renounced by SA, and then signs?
If it's the latter, and SA doesn't want him but 28 other teams can negotiate with him during the RFA period, is it tampering for the Celtics to communicate that should he not sign an RFA offer sheet, they'd make an offer as a UFA?
I realize that the complexity of this is far beyond what's worth it over a player who's likely to just get a low-money deal to stay in SA for another couple of years, but I've wanted to ask these questions anyway, so this is a convenient thread to do it in. And I'm pretty sure at least half of what I wrote above is wrong.
A restricted free agent's contract has expired, so they can sign him to an offer sheet July 1.
As to a sign and trade, there is no restriction on that, as it is by season, so he was traded this season, he would be traded back the next season.
There can be no tampering with a free agent once FA opens, if the Celtics told him they weren't interested in him as an RFA that would be fine, he could then either sign an offer sheet with someone else or sign the qualifying offer and go back to SA. Now SA could retract the QO before he signed it, but if you aren't willing to have back the player on the QO he probably has no trade value either and you should not have made him the QO and tied up your cap space.