Celtics FA/Trade Rumors and News

Jed Zeppelin

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It is so hard to even get contracts in this extremely desirable price range anymore. That alone makes an opt-in good for the Celtics. You can't have Marcus or the team's starting center be the only mid-range salaries on your roster as potential trade filler.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Ainge and Pritchard haggling has to be one of the most painful dynamics in transactional history. And people can Turner-stan all they want - its hard to see the Celtics coming out of any swap of Hayward for Turner as a better team in isolation. Its less about Turner as a player than Hayward's versatility but if this is the move, its likely to be accompanied by others so let's see.
 

Jimbodandy

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Ainge and Pritchard haggling has to be one of the most painful dynamics in transactional history. And people can Turner-stan all they want - its hard to see the Celtics coming out of any swap of Hayward for Turner as a better team in isolation. Its less about Turner as a player than Hayward's versatility but if this is the move, its likely to be accompanied by others so let's see.
Regardless of where one stan(d)s on Turner, the idea of Pritch and Danny trading phone calls for 72 hours that each end in some version of "fuck you" does being a smile to my face.

My dream scenario is that Danny is leaving it up to his counterpart to make the pieces come together with a third team. Let Pritch fleece someone else for our benefit.
 

greek_gawd_of_walks

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Is there any scenario in which the big piece coming back isn't Turner? The pipe dream (outside of Sabonis) for me is Warren. Would taking back a contract like McDermott's or Lamb's make that closer to reality?

Im a little skeptical about how Warren would fit into the Celts offense, but his bucket getting ability and contract are so enticing.
 

JohnnyTheBone

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Let me offer my .02 cents. Myles Turner is overpaid. Big men, in general, have become fungible in today's NBA. It's a perimeter game, like it or not (and I don't really like it, but it is what it is). Elite low-post scorers and rebounders that can bang, like Enes Kanter, are happy to get $5 million a year. It's a guard/wing league. Daniel Theis signed for 2 years and $10 million total, and he's awesome. Bigs will be available, for short money, anytime you want them. Don't be surprised if All Of Australia returns on a short deal, and again, he's great. People lamented losing Al Horford to Philly last year. Now, they had to attach picks to his albatross contract in order to unload him a year later. Don't sweat the big man situation. We good.

Hayward wants more guaranteed money. He, more than anyone, knows that if he lands wrong it can be over in a second. He'd rather get another 4-year deal than enter the final year of his contract. The free agent class blows, and he may very well be the best unrestricted guy on the market. Go ahead and look it up. He's going to get PAID. When he signed, it was IT at guard, Horford in the middle, and he was going to be the stud wing. Well, three years later, he's been surpassed by two younger, better stud wings. He's the fourth option now. This is not a referendum on Boston. This is merely situations evolving, and a guy doing what's best for him.

Nesmith is a pure shooter. Romeo is more of a ballhandler/slasher. They actually complement each other. You simply can't have enough wings in today's NBA, and Danny realized it sooner than most. He's been loading up. With Jaylen already paid and Jayson's huge extension on the horizon, you can't pay Hayward a max anymore. As it is, Kemba's deal is looking cumbersome. With the tax staying flat because of lost revenues, hard decisions need to be made. Gordon made his, and it's probably best for all involved. He either signs back with us at lower money (doubtful), or hopefully Ainge can grab an asset via sign-and-trade on his way out the door. We shall see, soon.
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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Ainge and Pritchard haggling has to be one of the most painful dynamics in transactional history. And people can Turner-stan all they want - its hard to see the Celtics coming out of any swap of Hayward for Turner as a better team in isolation. Its less about Turner as a player than Hayward's versatility but if this is the move, its likely to be accompanied by others so let's see.
I'm more Turner-postive than many here, and while I don't think a straight up swap makes Boston clearly better, I have been hoping that any Turner/Hayward deal would necessitate another piece coming Boston's way from Indiana in the form of one of their guards/wings. With the addition of Brogdon, and the bubble breakout from Warren, it seems likely that if Oladipo sticks with the Pacers, both Lamb and Holiday will see their roles largely dry up. If the Celtics could get Aaron Holiday or Jeremy Lamb in addition to Turner, I think there's a case to be made for the roster being better overall. Before GH opted out, I had half baked dreams that Ainge might be able to get one of Warren/Oladipo in addition to Turner, but I'm not sure that makes financial or basketball sense.

Neither Holiday nor Lamb are a game changer, but could certainly help Boston's guard rotation while they see what they have in Langford/Nesmith/Pritchard.
 

sox311

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That's what she said.
Is there roster break down thread? Roster spots, contracts and such? (Found it)

I miss the days when I had time to do it! I also miss how it excited me, now I just look at all the inexperience on the roster and wonder how we can contend without experienced depth. Danny did great in getting the core, now he has to clean up the mess. Presti and Griffin for sure have someone doing an oral history of what Danny did right, and what he did wrong when he was in their shoes.
 
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Cesar Crespo

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I'm more Turner-postive than many here, and while I don't think a straight up swap makes Boston clearly better, I have been hoping that any Turner/Hayward deal would necessitate another piece coming Boston's way from Indiana in the form of one of their guards/wings. With the addition of Brogdon, and the bubble breakout from Warren, it seems likely that if Oladipo sticks with the Pacers, both Lamb and Holiday will see their roles largely dry up. If the Celtics could get Aaron Holiday or Jeremy Lamb in addition to Turner, I think there's a case to be made for the roster being better overall. Before GH opted out, I had half baked dreams that Ainge might be able to get one of Warren/Oladipo in addition to Turner, but I'm not sure that makes financial or basketball sense.

Neither Holiday nor Lamb are a game changer, but could certainly help Boston's guard rotation while they see what they have in Langford/Nesmith/Pritchard.
It wasn't a bubble breakout for Warren. He added the 3 in 18/19 and it changed his value completely.

1st 4 years: .500/.283/.754, 1.3 3PA per game
Last 2: .517/.414/.817, 3.7 3PA per game
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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It wasn't a bubble breakout for Warren.
I certainly didn't mean to imply that what we saw from Warren wasn't the culmination of real growth from him. I just meant that the 31 points per game that he averaged while being dubbed "the Michael Jordan of the bubble" might not be sustainable, given that it came with Oladipo playing inconsistently due to injury and Sabonis completely absent.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I certainly didn't mean to imply that what we saw from Warren wasn't the culmination of real growth from him. I just meant that the 31 points per game that he averaged while being dubbed "the Michael Jordan of the bubble" might not be sustainable, given that it came with Oladipo playing inconsistently due to injury and Sabonis completely absent.
Ahh, gotcha. He's a really good player and has come a long way the last few seasons. He's one of the few players I always thought would benefit most from a 3 point shot. Julius Randle was/is another.

I'm guessing if the C's wanted Turner + Warren, it'd be something like Turner, Warren, Lamb for Hayward and Smart. I don't see a deal working where Warren is included.

I think in any Hayward trade with Indiana, Turner is coming back. They want to get rid of Turner because of Sabonis.

Also re Sabonis: I have a feeling people on here wouldn't trade Jaylen Brown for him. Am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong. I also think Sabonis being better than Turner shouldn't stop us from acquiring Turner. Sabonis is worth more than anything on the C's not named Tatum.

I'd basically empty the team to build around Tatum/Sabonis. Maybe I'm insane.
 

bigq

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Let me offer my .02 cents. Myles Turner is overpaid. Big men, in general, have become fungible in today's NBA. It's a perimeter game, like it or not (and I don't really like it, but it is what it is). Elite low-post scorers and rebounders that can bang, like Enes Kanter, are happy to get $5 million a year. It's a guard/wing league. Daniel Theis signed for 2 years and $10 million total, and he's awesome. Bigs will be available, for short money, anytime you want them. Don't be surprised if All Of Australia returns on a short deal, and again, he's great. People lamented losing Al Horford to Philly last year. Now, they had to attach picks to his albatross contract in order to unload him a year later. Don't sweat the big man situation. We good.

Hayward wants more guaranteed money. He, more than anyone, knows that if he lands wrong it can be over in a second. He'd rather get another 4-year deal than enter the final year of his contract. The free agent class blows, and he may very well be the best unrestricted guy on the market. Go ahead and look it up. He's going to get PAID. When he signed, it was IT at guard, Horford in the middle, and he was going to be the stud wing. Well, three years later, he's been surpassed by two younger, better stud wings. He's the fourth option now. This is not a referendum on Boston. This is merely situations evolving, and a guy doing what's best for him.

Nesmith is a pure shooter. Romeo is more of a ballhandler/slasher. They actually complement each other. You simply can't have enough wings in today's NBA, and Danny realized it sooner than most. He's been loading up. With Jaylen already paid and Jayson's huge extension on the horizon, you can't pay Hayward a max anymore. As it is, Kemba's deal is looking cumbersome. With the tax staying flat because of lost revenues, hard decisions need to be made. Gordon made his, and it's probably best for all involved. He either signs back with us at lower money (doubtful), or hopefully Ainge can grab an asset via sign-and-trade on his way out the door. We shall see, soon.
This is a great post and I agree with everything you said. I’m hoping Nesmith can make more of an immediate impact although that is a lot to ask of a rookie. Langford struggled in his rookie year and I am looking forward to seeing growth in his 2nd year. Lots of choices for filling Hayward’s minutes this coming season.
 

ManicCompression

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Ahh, gotcha. He's a really good player and has come a long way the last few seasons. He's one of the few players I always thought would benefit most from a 3 point shot. Julius Randle was/is another.

I'm guessing if the C's wanted Turner + Warren, it'd be something like Turner, Warren, Lamb for Hayward and Smart. I don't see a deal working where Warren is included.

I think in any Hayward trade with Indiana, Turner is coming back. They want to get rid of Turner because of Sabonis.

Also re Sabonis: I have a feeling people on here wouldn't trade Jaylen Brown for him. Am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong. I also think Sabonis being better than Turner shouldn't stop us from acquiring Turner. Sabonis is worth more than anything on the C's not named Tatum.

I'd basically empty the team to build around Tatum/Sabonis. Maybe I'm insane.
I would not trade Brown for Sabonis straight up. It's so hard for a big to eclipse the value of a wing. The difference between Theis and Sabonis is much smaller than the difference between Brown and an average wing. Sabonis is arguably worth less than Smart in my opinion.
 

Sille Skrub

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Mar 3, 2004
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Let me offer my .02 cents. Myles Turner is overpaid. Big men, in general, have become fungible in today's NBA. It's a perimeter game, like it or not (and I don't really like it, but it is what it is). Elite low-post scorers and rebounders that can bang, like Enes Kanter, are happy to get $5 million a year. It's a guard/wing league. Daniel Theis signed for 2 years and $10 million total, and he's awesome. Bigs will be available, for short money, anytime you want them. Don't be surprised if All Of Australia returns on a short deal, and again, he's great. People lamented losing Al Horford to Philly last year. Now, they had to attach picks to his albatross contract in order to unload him a year later. Don't sweat the big man situation. We good.

Hayward wants more guaranteed money. He, more than anyone, knows that if he lands wrong it can be over in a second. He'd rather get another 4-year deal than enter the final year of his contract. The free agent class blows, and he may very well be the best unrestricted guy on the market. Go ahead and look it up. He's going to get PAID. When he signed, it was IT at guard, Horford in the middle, and he was going to be the stud wing. Well, three years later, he's been surpassed by two younger, better stud wings. He's the fourth option now. This is not a referendum on Boston. This is merely situations evolving, and a guy doing what's best for him.

Nesmith is a pure shooter. Romeo is more of a ballhandler/slasher. They actually complement each other. You simply can't have enough wings in today's NBA, and Danny realized it sooner than most. He's been loading up. With Jaylen already paid and Jayson's huge extension on the horizon, you can't pay Hayward a max anymore. As it is, Kemba's deal is looking cumbersome. With the tax staying flat because of lost revenues, hard decisions need to be made. Gordon made his, and it's probably best for all involved. He either signs back with us at lower money (doubtful), or hopefully Ainge can grab an asset via sign-and-trade on his way out the door. We shall see, soon.
Awesome post. Thanks for taking/talking/posting me off the ledge.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I'm also convinced Sabonis will add a 3 point shot and his passing game will continue to improve so maybe that's where we differ. I have him developing into something like Jokic.
 

the moops

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I'm also convinced Sabonis will add a 3 point shot and his passing game will continue to improve so maybe that's where we differ. I have him developing into something like Jokic.
Well, yea if you think he is going to turn into a top 10 player in the league I can understand your enthusiasm. But damn
 

nighthob

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I'm more Turner-postive than many here, and while I don't think a straight up swap makes Boston clearly better, I have been hoping that any Turner/Hayward deal would necessitate another piece coming Boston's way from Indiana in the form of one of their guards/wings. With the addition of Brogdon, and the bubble breakout from Warren, it seems likely that if Oladipo sticks with the Pacers, both Lamb and Holiday will see their roles largely dry up. If the Celtics could get Aaron Holiday or Jeremy Lamb in addition to Turner, I think there's a case to be made for the roster being better overall. Before GH opted out, I had half baked dreams that Ainge might be able to get one of Warren/Oladipo in addition to Turner, but I'm not sure that makes financial or basketball sense.
Jeremy Lamb makes an awful lot of money to be bad at basketball. I have ten dollars that says that Pritchard's offer for Hayward is Turner and Lamb and he wants draft picks from Boston to boot. But Lamb is an averagish defender that's really bad at offense. He's an NBA tenth man, and I'd say that he's in his proper role now. Turner can block shots, which makes people oooohhhh and aaaahhhh but he really doesn't do a whole lot else.

Now if the Pacers were throwing in three number ones and three pick swaps I might be tempted, but that's probably what Pritchard wants for unloading his crap on Boston.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Well, yea if you think he is going to turn into a top 10 player in the league I can understand your enthusiasm. But damn
Top 15 (like, not as good as. Jokic is in my top 10) but yeah. I thought more people shared my POV. He's really just a decent 3 point shot away from being one or arguably one. His passing game is a lot better than I thought it was going into the year (not at Jokic's level but who is?) and he's been working on his 3 point shot for awhile, he just hasn't really used it in game.

I'll gladly be wrong but it doesn't matter anyway. There is no way the Pacers are trading him/the C's are acquiring him. And emptying the team is obviously hyperbole on my part but I'd gladly move Brown or Smart for him. Anyone but Tatum. Not everyone but Tatum.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Jeremy Lamb makes an awful lot of money to be bad at basketball. I have ten dollars that says that Pritchard's offer for Hayward is Turner and Lamb and he wants draft picks from Boston to boot. But Lamb is an averagish defender that's really bad at offense. He's an NBA tenth man, and I'd say that he's in his proper role now. Turner can block shots, which makes people oooohhhh and aaaahhhh but he really doesn't do a whole lot else.

Now if the Pacers were throwing in three number ones and three pick swaps I might be tempted, but that's probably what Pritchard wants for unloading his crap on Boston.
Even if you think Theis is better, it's hard to argue Turner doesn't at least offer value to the C's stretching out the floor. He shoots at a much higher volume than Theis from 3.

Also we aren't going to get fair value for Hayward if Hayward wants to leave.
 

BigSoxFan

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Jeremy Lamb makes an awful lot of money to be bad at basketball. I have ten dollars that says that Pritchard's offer for Hayward is Turner and Lamb and he wants draft picks from Boston to boot. But Lamb is an averagish defender that's really bad at offense. He's an NBA tenth man, and I'd say that he's in his proper role now. Turner can block shots, which makes people oooohhhh and aaaahhhh but he really doesn't do a whole lot else.

Now if the Pacers were throwing in three number ones and three pick swaps I might be tempted, but that's probably what Pritchard wants for unloading his crap on Boston.
Yeah, if that's the offer then I'd rather lose Hayward for nothing. Lamb is a nonstarter.
 

the moops

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Top 15 (like, not as good as. Jokic is in my top 10) but yeah. I thought more people shared my POV. He's really just a decent 3 point shot away from being one or arguably one. His passing game is a lot better than I thought it was going into the year (not at Jokic's level but who is?) and he's been working on his 3 point shot for awhile, he just hasn't really used it in game.
I have never heard anyone say they think Sabonis is going to turn into a top 15 player
 

nighthob

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Even if you think Theis is better, it's hard to argue Turner doesn't at least offer value to the C's stretching out the floor. He shoots at a much higher volume than Theis from 3.
The problem is that Turner's contract guarantees that the repeater tax is going to be triggered. And then you end up making hard choices. Like spending first round picks to lose Indiana's crap. So even in a vacuum it's Hayward and multiple picks to fix the payroll problems that could be fixed just by letting Hayward play for the Knicks.
 

Cellar-Door

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I have never heard anyone say they think Sabonis is going to turn into a top 15 player
Yeah Sabonis making a leap depends very heavily on his taking and making 3s, he hasn't shown much appetite for the former, or ability to do the latter.
 

Pollard's Spartan Beard

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Yeah, if that's the offer then I'd rather lose Hayward for nothing. Lamb is a nonstarter.
It feels weird finding myself in the role of defending Lamb, as I'm pretty ambivalent about the dude overall, but I've always thought of him as a guy who could do well as a rotation player asked to provide some scoring off the bench, but who was miscast as a starter in Charlotte and Indiana (as they waited for Oladipo to return). From what I remember of him, the guy's a capable scorer from the mid-range who has some capacity to finish at the rim, and has shown some ability to shoot the three, though he's regressed from the 37% clip he shot it at a few years ago. I feel like that's the kind of guy many of us were bemoaning a lack of during this past season.

Moreover, having a guy in that range salary wise seems valuable, in that it facilitates more ability for the front office to get creative in trade talks. Much was made of the fact that Boston's combination of highly paid and cheap guys made it difficult to put together packages to net some of the valuable role players that might become available during a season. Having another guy slotted in at around $10 million seems potentially useful in that regard.

I'm not trying to suggest that Jeremy Lamb is a guy that I'd go out of my way to get, just that he might have some value as a bench scorer. Just over the MLE doesn't seem like that brutal of an overpay to me.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Yeah Sabonis making a leap depends very heavily on his taking and making 3s, he hasn't shown much appetite for the former, or ability to do the latter.
Yeah, if he doesn't, he's just merely a good player. Not having a 3 point shot in today's NBA is such a huge flaw for an offensively inclined player. I'm convinced he adds it tho.
 

nighthob

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It feels weird finding myself in the role of defending Lamb, as I'm pretty ambivalent about the dude overall, but I've always thought of him as a guy who could do well as a rotation player asked to provide some scoring off the bench, but who was miscast as a starter in Charlotte and Indiana (as they waited for Oladipo to return). From what I remember of him, the guy's a capable scorer from the mid-range who has some capacity to finish at the rim, and has shown some ability to shoot the three, though he's regressed from the 37% clip he shot it at a few years ago. I feel like that's the kind of guy many of us were bemoaning a lack of during this past season.
He's never been very good at offense.
 

Swedgin

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I'm confused. We gave up Kanter for a future pick? Thats it?

EDIT- Ok, we get a trade exception too
Not really. We used the 30th pick to move Kanter. There is something coming back from Memphis, but what it is and whether it is real has not been reported yet. Most people assumed on draft night that something was stapled to that 30th pick. Prior to the draft many of us speculated that it would be used to clear Kanter's salary.

We paid OKC to take Poirier and they sent us back a fake second.
 

BaseballJones

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So these two moves are really just ways to get these guys off the roster and off the books without any negative repercussions. Is that about right?
 

Swedgin

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so is this what was once referred to as a salary dump?

Does this just save $5m and theoretically save a seat for a new big?
Yes, it is still a salary dump.

Depending on what happens with GH or comes back in a sign and trade, the savings is potentially more than 5M to the ownership because of the tax consequences.

In addition to impact on the owner's wallets, it can potentially help the team as well, if it allows Danny to use the financial resources and rosters spots more effectively. In other words, if we replace Kanter with a wing or shooter in FA or trade. If he does it use it for a big, it would be one who can stay on the floor in more playoff matchups.
 

Cellar-Door

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So these two moves are really just ways to get these guys off the roster and off the books without any negative repercussions. Is that about right?
so is this what was once referred to as a salary dump?

Does this just save $5m and theoretically save a seat for a new big?
Basically yes. We dumped the salary, but we also got TPE's out of it, which means at some point in the next year, we can take in a player in a trade who makes less than Kanter (or Poirier) without having to salary match or have cap space. (no combining the two TPEs).
 

Cellar-Door

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Very much in for this Christian Wood rumor. I think I'm the most down on Romeo on this board, so if all it takes is him to make it happen then I'm down for it.

View: https://twitter.com/DuncanSmithNBA/status/1329891092880297984?s=20

The Boston Celtics may be paving the way for a Christian Wood sign-and-trade. Our own
@PolitoedNBA
wrote about this possibility (and a couple others) this morning.
Unless it's a 3 way deal with Haywrd I don't see how that works. The Celtics don't have any salary to match with unless they are trading Smart, which they aren't doing for Wood.
 

benhogan

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Also re Sabonis: I have a feeling people on here wouldn't trade Jaylen Brown for him. Am I wrong? I hope I'm wrong. I also think Sabonis being better than Turner shouldn't stop us from acquiring Turner. Sabonis is worth more than anything on the C's not named Tatum.

I'd basically empty the team to build around Tatum/Sabonis. Maybe I'm insane.
I've been one of the bigger Sabonis fans around here for years. BUT you'd be alone in offering JB for DS.

I suggested it last Summer, and not many liked the idea. I changed my tune after seeing the way Pop used Jaylen in the Worlds. JBs defensive versatility, shooting, and continuing growth pretty much makes him untouchable.