Celtics FA/Trade Rumors and News

Cesar Crespo

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There's no way Aaron Holiday has the same value, but if he was included in a deal, I wouldn't mind seeing what the C's could get for Kemba. Start Smart or even start Holiday if you want Smart off the bench.

Not saying Holiday is Kemba, but the return + Holiday might be.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I feel like some people are interpreting that Washburn tweet as Danny wants either Turner and Warren or Turner and Oladipo. I read it as he wants either Turner and Warren or just Oladipo.

That would make a lot more since salary wise. Oladipo + Turner for Hayward doesn't work unless Hayward gets the max. He's not going to. The 2 combined make 38.5 mil.
 

Cellar-Door

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The same could be said for Hayward.
Not really. Hayward came back not as good, then improved to honestly, about as good. At no point was he as bad as Oladipo was last year.

If we're talking people we don't want back.... Victor Oladipo is high on my list unless Danny has a trade to shit him along waiting. He looked DONE last year, and everything about how he handled himself while being terrible on the court was concerning.
 

mcpickl

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I feel like some people are interpreting that Washburn tweet as Danny wants either Turner and Warren or Turner and Oladipo. I read it as he wants either Turner and Warren or just Oladipo.
This is how I read this as well.

If you want me to take Turner, you have to give me Warren and his great contract as well

Otherwise, forget me taking Turner and I'll just take the expiring Oladipo and try to rehab his value.
 

radsoxfan

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I agree Oladipo is a big risk (though mitigated by only 1 year left). He had a major injury and was nothing like his former self when he came back. Still probably worth it if you can get him, would be a nice consolation prize.

I read the tweet as Turner + (Warren or Oladipo) for what its worth. But money-wise, maybe it's (Turner + Warren) or Oladipo?
 

radsoxfan

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This is how I read this as well.

If you want me to take Turner, you have to give me Warren and his great contract as well

Otherwise, forget me taking Turner and I'll just take the expiring Oladipo and try to rehab his value.
It's unclear to me if Turner is viewed by both parties as a net negative, though overall I agree with your assessment, makes sense.
 

mcpickl

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It's unclear to me if Turner is viewed by both parties as a net negative, though overall I agree with your assessment, makes sense.
I don't think Indiana views Turner as a negative, they probably think they're giving Boston good value.

I think Ainge views him as a negative tho
 

BigSoxFan

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I agree Oladipo is a big risk (though mitigated by only 1 year left). He had a major injury and was nothing like his former self when he came back. Still probably worth it if you can get him, would be a nice consolation prize.

I read the tweet as Turner + (Warren or Oladipo) for what its worth. But money-wise, maybe it's (Turner + Warren) or Oladipo?
Isn’t a risky Oladipo better than Turner and a multi year deal that most agree isn’t very valuable? Seems like the perfect move for the Celtics. You get a guy with real upside and an expiring contract.
 

radsoxfan

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Isn’t a risky Oladipo better than Turner and a multi year deal that most agree isn’t very valuable? Seems like the perfect move for the Celtics. You get a guy with real upside and an expiring contract.
Plenty of people mocked the Suns for selling low on Warren, I think around the league people actually see his 2 year deal as pretty valuable right now.

I think either package makes sense for the Celtics to be honest. I'm not sure how Oladipo really fits in as he tries to rehab his value but happy to find out.
 

BigSoxFan

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Plenty of people mocked the Suns for selling low on Warren, I think around the league people actually see his 2 year deal as pretty valuable right now.

I think either package makes sense for the Celtics to be honest. I'm not sure how Oladipo really fits in as he tries to rehab his value but happy to find out.
Yeah, I’d much rather have Warren but Oladipo seems like a worthwhile upside play with minimal downside. I just can’t imagine Indiana parting with Warren to get Hayward.
 

jmcc5400

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Oladipo playing for a contract? No thanks. I'd much rather have Turner + (I'm guess Danny is asking Warren, settles for Holliday).
 

TripleOT

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Indy better guess right on Hayward’s long term health if they move Warren for him. Assuming Olidepo doesn’t re-sign there, all they have long term is Brogdon, a nice complementary player, Sabonis, and Holiday.
 

TripleOT

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Oladipo playing for a contract? No thanks. I'd much rather have Turner + (I'm guess Danny is asking Warren, settles for Holliday).
If a broken down Hayward can get a nine figure FA deal after playing team ball in a contract year, (and not even proving he can be healthy) why couldn’t VO come to Boston, contend for a title while playing his role (6th man and help close) and still get paid if he puts in a good year?
 

the moops

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Oladipo playing for a contract? No thanks. I'd much rather have Turner + (I'm guess Danny is asking Warren, settles for Holliday).
Oladipo's next contract isn't based on him getting 25 points per game on poor shooting. It is whether he shows he is healthy and can defend how he used to
 

BigSoxFan

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If a broken down Hayward can get a nine figure FA deal after playing team ball in a contract year, (and not even proving he can be healthy) why couldn’t VO come to Boston, contend for a title while playing his role (6th man and help close) and still get paid if he puts in a good year?
And given Kemba’s likely load management, there will be starter opportunities for Oladipo.
 

Cellar-Door

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I honestly don't get the Oladipo love. He was really good for like 100 games, then he sufferred a major injury and has been terrible, he's not on a good contract, you can't get much for him, and his fit on this team on and off court is is dubious. I'd rather have Turner and a TPE at this point.
 

BigSoxFan

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I honestly don't get the Oladipo love. He was really good for like 100 games, then he sufferred a major injury and has been terrible, he's not on a good contract, you can't get much for him, and his fit on this team on and off court is is dubious. I'd rather have Turner and a TPE at this point.
What is your issue with him off the court?
 

jmcc5400

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Look, I'm sure I'll talk myself into Oladipo if he comes this way. But:
1. I'd rather have the size and defense you get from Turner plus a rotational piece;
2. I'm sure the awful taste of how brutal Oladipo was in the postseason last year is coloring my perception;
3. The rumors of him shopping himself to other teams last year make me worry about another Mr. Chemistry situation.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Is there a reasonable path to trading for Turner and still staying under the tax line for this year? And still otherwise improving using the MLE while doing so?
 

Cellar-Door

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What is your issue with him off the court?
He allegedly spent all of last year telling anyone who would listen how he wanted out. The story (he denies but the reporter says he had multiple sources on multiple teams) that he was asking players on a number of teams (including the Knicks) if he could go there. He and his GF are attacking teammates (like Turner) on twitter. Feels very much like a guy who was told he was the franchise, got hurt, came back as the 8th best player on the team and was pissed that he wasn't being treated like the star anymore.
 

Cellar-Door

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Is there a reasonable path to trading for Turner and still staying under the tax line for this year? And still otherwise improving using the MLE while doing so?
Yes. Hayward for Turner and a 1-2M salary (assumes Gordon gets 22-23M in the first year), cut Semi and Green leaves you room under the apron. Might make sense to staple whatever comes with Turner and Carsen to a couple 2nds and dump them into someone's TPE as well to open more space otherwise the MLE is tight.
 

HowBoutDemSox

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Yes. Hayward for Turner and a 1-2M salary (assumes Gordon gets 22-23M in the first year), cut Semi and Green leaves you room under the apron. Might make sense to staple whatever comes with Turner and Carsen to a couple 2nds and dump them into someone's TPE as well to open more space otherwise the MLE is tight.
Pardon my ignorance here, but that’s what it would take to stay below the apron, or below the tax threshold altogether?
 

Cellar-Door

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Pardon my ignorance here, but that’s what it would take to stay below the apron, or below the tax threshold altogether?
below the tax altogether, basically what I said there, but without using the MLE.
Trading Hayward for Turner would leave the Celtics I think 7M+ below the tax.
 

JakeRae

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below the tax altogether, basically what I said there, but without using the MLE.
Trading Hayward for Turner would leave the Celtics I think 7M+ below the tax.
Yep. Which forecloses using the full MLE (even the taxpayer version) because they still need to fill out the roster.
 

Cellar-Door

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Yep. Which forecloses using the full MLE (even the taxpayer version) because they still need to fill out the roster.
Basically, they can either use the full MLE or stay below the tax. If they are willing to pay the tax the Celtics will use the MLE one way or another, filling out the roster is not remotely an issue.
Unless of course the make a bigger trade (Kemba) that cuts salary, in which case they could use the full (non-tax) MLE and stay below the tax.

Edit- to be more clear these are the options:

Willing to pay the tax?
- Use Hayward trade to get low enough to use the full, non-tax MLE
- take back more salary in a Hayward trade and use the tax-payer MLE

Not willing to pay tax?
-Don't use MLE
- Cut salary elsewhere, use full MLE.
 

Cellar-Door

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My big takeaway from the rumors on the Indy discussions are:
1. IND doesn't want to add salary, they are not paying the tax no matter what.
2. Danny is more than willing to pay tax if it gets him more in return in a Hayward deal
 

Jed Zeppelin

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He will be 36 in February, I’d just as soon feed Grant all those hypothetical minutes and try to find some upside with the MLE, but if it’s short on years then whatever, we are settling firmly into a 4-6 seed squad either way.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Millsap is guy I mentioned in the other thread as a very logical fit. He is likely more a 20ish minute a game guy, but that's ok---Celts are more interested in someone who can close games sometimes than a bunch of minutes given their roster and other wings.

I do think you want him at less than full MLE because you need a couple more guys in the rotation and ideally some upside in one of them---Giles or someone like that.

The timing here (and thus what's out there) definitely harmful, and part of why I've been concerned for 24 hours about their approach. We'll see
 

RedOctober3829

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deep inside Guido territory
Millsap is guy I mentioned in the other thread as a very logical fit. He is likely more a 20ish minute a game guy, but that's ok---Celts are more interested in someone who can close games sometimes than a bunch of minutes given their roster and other wings.

I do think you want him at less than full MLE because you need a couple more guys in the rotation and ideally some upside in one of them---Giles or someone like that.

The timing here (and thus what's out there) definitely harmful, and part of why I've been concerned for 24 hours about their approach. We'll see
Id be happy with Saric and either Millsap or Giles.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Id be happy with Saric and either Millsap or Giles.
Saric is restricted, so don't know that he's an option but worth a sniff. Bogdanovich clearly wants out and they seem to be ok with moving him, but the path to anything over MLE (which would be matched) is tricky, right?

The other guy that fits in some ways is Ibaka. If you were able to get Ibaka and Millsap that is a pretty nice pivot, and then sign a vet min PG and bear some risk there. Those are pretty 'old' signings but they ahve a lot of youth otherwise. The need for a distributor is higher without Hayward, but Stevens' offense doesn't need a primo PG anyway and we're talking about minutes behind Kemba/when he's out and Smart anyway.

I personally have been big on Giles for a while, but understand why people are wary of him. I think there's upside there, and he has the passing skill we saw Horford use so effectivelyin this offense. Plus, the Tatum angle is useful.
 

Van Everyman

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we are settling firmly into a 4-6 seed squad either way.
I hate this quasi-“sky is falling” talk, esp. at this time of year. It is a bummer we didn’t get anything back for GH but this team did pretty well without him for a good chunk of last year and with Kemba struggling with his knee.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I hate this quasi-“sky is falling” talk, esp. at this time of year. It is a bummer we didn’t get anything back for GH but this team did pretty well without him for a good chunk of last year and with Kemba struggling with his knee.
It doesn't help a lot of teams have done things to improve while the C's really haven't yet. Millsap would help.
 

BigSoxFan

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Good character guy and still has something left in the tank. I’d be ok with Millsap.
 

JakeRae

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That’s great, I’d be thrilled with Millsap. Thrilledsap.
Agreed. Millsap was always one of the best possible targets in FA for the Celtics, particularly with the hindsight that most of the guys that looked like they might be MLE targets because of cap situations figured out creative ways to get paid anyway.

I’d also bet on Millsap contributing more to this team winning next year than Turner would have, although Turner obviously still had the possibility Brad could untap his offense.
 

tbb345

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Agreed. Millsap was always one of the best possible targets in FA for the Celtics, particularly with the hindsight that most of the guys that looked like they might be MLE targets because of cap situations figured out creative ways to get paid anyway.

I’d also bet on Millsap contributing more to this team winning next year than Turner would have, although Turner obviously still had the possibility Brad could untap his offense.
Youd be alright with signing Millsap for the full MLE? At the end of the year Millsap was basically unplayable and it seemed like the tank was incredibly close to E. Signing that player to a 9 million dollar per year deal seems like it would be an incredible overpay
 

JakeRae

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Youd be alright with signing Millsap for the full MLE? At the end of the year Millsap was basically unplayable and it seemed like the tank was incredibly close to E. Signing that player to a 9 million dollar per year deal seems like it would be an incredible overpay
Depends on length, but for next year, yes. If we’re talking more years, no. It would obviously be better if we could sign him for less than that, but I’d have no problem paying him $9 million for his next season and think it would be one of the better FA deals signed this crazy offseason.
 

DannyDarwinism

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Youd be alright with signing Millsap for the full MLE? At the end of the year Millsap was basically unplayable and it seemed like the tank was incredibly close to E. Signing that player to a 9 million dollar per year deal seems like it would be an incredible overpay
Was he? He averaged the same mpg in the playoffs and regular season. I just thought was more the matchups and the emergence of MPJ and Grant.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Was he? He averaged the same mpg in the playoffs and regular season. I just thought was more the matchups and the emergence of MPJ and Grant.
Milsaps usage was mostly a function of Porters leap. He won't play 30 MPG anymore but he is still a useful bench piece who replaces a bit of what Hayward did but in a more defined way.
 

TripleOT

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Milsap shot the three at 41% last year, all catch and shoot. If he gets the full MLE, it’s like getting a team oriented Marcus Morris type at almost half the cost.

He’s old, and hasn’t had great playoff numbers, but at a fourth or fifth option could be successful in Boston shooting open threes. Not my first choice for a MLE signing, but acceptable for one or two years
 

TripleOT

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I consider Ibaka a much better get for Boston, as a marginally better three point shooter who rebounds and blocks shots.