Carry on my Hayward Son: Gordon to Charlotte for 4 years, $120M
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Kyrie really did a number on the Celtics franchise. First, he promises to re-sign, which may have influenced Ainge to not try to move him in season. He blocks minutes for the young, contract year PG who put in work in the playoffs when he was out.
He then signs elsewhere, with nothing coming back in return. Alienated Rozier goes to Charlotte and becomes productive, and a crunch time killer.
Then Kyrie tries to downgrade the Celtics as a destination for FAs with “we all know how racist that city is,” even though he couldn’t provide one personal instance of racism here.
Smart move if you’re putting together a superteam in the conference and a potential rival have two young ascending all star wings.
in fairness, Terry was excellent as a starter in the 2018 regular season and playoffs. He did have every right to be PO'd
That last season of Kyrie set back this organization more than any of us ever realized.
Hop in a time/hindsight machine and Danny deals Kyrie a month after he deserts the team for Game 7 against the Cavs. Wonder what the Celtics land for 26yr old Kyrie Irving?
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I will forever wonder what deals Ainge turned down for Kyrie a few years ago. Doubt anything earth shattering but probably some intriguing options.
I'd like to see the time machine that takes you to the alternate universe where we never made the trade. Is Crowder the mentor the Js need? Does Brad turn Zizic into a viable NBA player?
No, but I bet he turns Shai Gilgeous-Alexander into the running mate that the JayCrew needs.
Rough situation for the Hornets. 2/61+ left for Gordon and he can't stay on the floor.
Lots of foot and ankle issues since the terrible fracture/dislocation with the Celtics. Some might have been fluky but overall I'd assume he's probably got some arthritis and is just not going to be durable or consistent at this point in his career.
He's not currently a bad player and could help someone off the bench in spurts, but this is a pretty depressing end to his once super promising career. Not surprised Charlotte might want to trade for RWB if they can get rid of GH and then be free of the final year.
Lots of foot and ankle issues since the terrible fracture/dislocation with the Celtics. Some might have been fluky but overall I'd assume he's probably got some arthritis and is just not going to be durable or consistent at this point in his career.
He's not currently a bad player and could help someone off the bench in spurts, but this is a pretty depressing end to his once super promising career. Not surprised Charlotte might want to trade for RWB if they can get rid of GH and then be free of the final year.
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someone who wants to get off more money this year. like the Lakers. HOU might do it too.
Edit- problem is the match, not sure who else CHA needs to add. In a 3 way deal it's easier.
Charlotte would have to include another player to trade for Westbrook or Wall. I mean the Rockets might be desperate enough to pay $27 million (assuming Oubre is the other player) for a mid first, but at this point that much stockpiling of inmates in an asylum would be bordering on managerial malpractice.
HOU might do it on the OKC theory, basically that Wall is a sunk cost, they don't need cap space next year that badly and if Hayward stays moderately healthy they can flip him for something as a 1 year deal, he's never healthy for long, but when he is healthy he's a really good player that fits almost any team, that would have value on 1/31. I would guess the other pieces would be maybe Plumlee and #13 ($4M if traded after he's picked) that's 42-43M, then buy out Westbrook or Wall, or re-route them.
I've always been a Hayward guy in general, but I'm not sure he's a "really good player" anymore, even when he's healthy enough to be on the court.
I think he could still help a team, especially off the bench. But hard to rely on him and not sure I can see him having much value at 31M a year.
We could have used a "healthy enough to play" Hayward last week. I'd be open to taking him back, but the money just makes it not even possible. And we have little use for a draft pick. I suppose we could absorb a player into our TPE and then shuffle off with Smart or White, but that kills the TPE and worsens team depth. If Al Horford was a valueless lodestone I'd ship him out for Hayward in his current state but that is obviously not the case.
In some ways but at the same time it was kind of a smart move in retrospect for Hayward to opt out of his Celtics contract and maximize his payday while he still had value. And as you mention, it doesn’t preclude another chapter of him as a bench guy on a title contender.
Possibly, but it's also very possible he spends the next two years toiling away on an even crappier team than Charlotte. After that, he might have an opportunity or two as a ring chaser on a vet minimum - but I'd guess he doesn't do that, and is instead looking at MLE type deals.
By opting out he certainly maximized his earning opportunity, and based on his public statements - he was also looking for an opportunity where he would be the alpha dog (he didn't say it that way - but he did talk about having a higher usage rate). IMO, he chose poorly as I don't think the extra money is going to make a meaningful difference in his life and he missed out on the opportunity to have had quite a bit of team success. Even being the 3rd banana on a team that goes to the NBA finals I assume would be more personally satisfying than being the top dog on a play-in caliber team year in and year out. But, he's the one who decides what is most important to him. Maybe he also likes not having the pressure of being on a team with real expectations - no idea.
Kemba only had a year left, though, right? I don't see any NBA teams shelling out $61 million for a FRP. My guess is he goes to some awful team to see if he can rehab his reputation into some kind of asset for the receiving team. So, Hayward toils away in OKC or Houston for 1 - 1.5 years, and is then either traded somewhere for an asset or bought out.
We can fairly question GHs motivations but what the hell was/is Charlotte doing? Amazes me that MJ runs such a shitty franchise that they have to give away picks and it’s not even an illogical move given their current options.
On GHs return, I guess stranger things have happened but I think there are lots of better fits out there for both parties given the financials and his current stage.
On GHs return, I guess stranger things have happened but I think there are lots of better fits out there for both parties given the financials and his current stage.
100% the right move for Hayward to opt out and get everything he could.
But this end to his career, considering his trajectory after Utah, is just depressing. It happens to plenty of guys due to injury but still a bummer.
Agreed. On an Ainge thread, I wrote this about Hayward somewhat recently and def. stick by it, Butterfly Effect and all:
One of my favorite thread titles.
Looks like Hayward has retired at the age of 34. I'm a little bit surprised he wasn't or didn't want to find a spot as a vet min guy on a ring chasing team. He has the skill set that I think he would be plug and play (in a reserve / role player role of course) on most teams. I don't know if it's a combination of:
1) He really is no good (although I'm skeptical he's below he's worse than the 400th best player in the NBA)
2) He couldn't accept the demotion from one time All-Star to reserve scrub
3) Vet mininum just isn't worthwhile for someone who's already made >$100 million in his career
4) Just not that interested in potentially winning a title
5) Would just rather be with his family
Looks like Hayward has retired at the age of 34. I'm a little bit surprised he wasn't or didn't want to find a spot as a vet min guy on a ring chasing team. He has the skill set that I think he would be plug and play (in a reserve / role player role of course) on most teams. I don't know if it's a combination of:
1) He really is no good (although I'm skeptical he's below he's worse than the 400th best player in the NBA)
2) He couldn't accept the demotion from one time All-Star to reserve scrub
3) Vet mininum just isn't worthwhile for someone who's already made >$100 million in his career
4) Just not that interested in potentially winning a title
5) Would just rather be with his family
I would've thought the same 6 months ago, but he was useless in OKC and totally invisible in the playoffs. I'm sure he could pull off the Blake Griffin role on good teams for a bit if he wanted, but whatever.
I think it would have been fun to have him back here. I still have some “what could have been” remorse over his time in Boston.
Even going back to his second year in Charlotte he pretty much stopped trying/caring. I thought it could have just been a veteran on a lottery team waiting to get out but he never did rejuvenate. He has plenty of money, he has a young and growing family…..his priorities changes and there is nothing wrong with that.
Rereading the first few pages of this thread is a trip down bizarro COVID lane. And I was pissed they couldn't get TJ Warren and Aaron Holiday from Indy.
I still remember repeatedly ducking behind my beach chair on I think 4th of July to see if Brad’s son was going to sign with us. I can still remember walking in my door just after tip of the opening game and hitting “start from live” because what could I have missed, really? and it seemed like I was watching a funeral. What a long strange trip it’s been.
The one benefit of DVR is that I heard about the injury before I watched the game so was able to skip all the close-in replays. I still haven't really seen the injury. It was pretty gruesome I understand.
He simply couldn't stay healthy in Charlotte. It's easy to say he stopped "trying/caring", but he likely was playing through constant pain and may have simply grown weary of rehabbing from injury after injury.
I was kind of looking at the Butterfly Effect (or is it Sliding Doors?) of how the lost salary slot—while it did end up costing them the 2020-21 season due to the Kemba knee, Jaylen wrist and bad bench—also forced them to make the Brad-Ainge move and, subsequently, the Kemba-Al trade and so forth.
Re-reading the Gordo postscript has me laughing but further confirms the Cellar's status as the most knowledgeable place for NBA hoops.
Maybe stopped trying/caring is too strong what I meant was that he seemed to have lost an edge. The injuries he suffered there were primarily ones where he missed large blocks of time. When he played he was full go, 40 min B2B but wasn’t close to the same energy/effort he was earlier his career for whatever reason.
On a somewhat similar note I tuned in to the game soon after Hayward’s injury. Based on the descriptions in the game thread I knew I did not want to see the replays so I did not watch them and still haven’t. I don’t like watching people getting hurt.
On the Malarchuk scale, it was only about a 5. Wasn't visually gruesome like Kevin Ware or anything. But it was just such a body blow to every fan who'd spent the previous 2 months getting hyped about a big all-star signing with us.
I tuned in about 5 minutes late too and had to ask the gamethread wtf happened, the announcers were acting like there's been a terrorist attack on the court or something but nobody said what had gone on.
Locked on NBA did the 5 most "memorable" NBA injuries. When they mentioned #5 was Shaun Livingston, I had to change the channel as they admitted that generally "memorable" = "gruesome".
I personally can't listen/see/think about that stuff but thought I'd mention it if anyone is interested.
An interesting read in the Athletic:
Gordon Hayward in his own words: On retirement, injuries, Celtics championship and more
Some interesting quotes:
"That was probably the hardest season of my career. That was the season we were the most stacked on paper, but everyone had so many individual agendas. We were competing against each other and that’s the reason why we struggled all regular season. For me, everyone’s saying why should he get opportunities, but I’m sitting there saying I’m not even getting opportunities. I think I was used way less than I had ever been used in my career. Mentally, I was messed up. That season was super tough. That was definitely the hardest year of my career. But I pushed through it and then we were right there that next season in the bubble. "
"
When did you feel you were satisfied with your career?
It was probably the first year in Charlotte. I wanted to be an All-Star so bad and I did that. Then, I was hoping to win a title and continue that as I came over to Boston and then the major injury happened. Then it was like, I want to prove that I’m still the player that I was. I feel like those first couple of years in Charlotte, I did that. We didn’t win as a team and I got injured, it seemed like every year. I was healthy up until that major injury (in 2017) and then it seemed like after that, every year, there was something that was just out of my control. That part was disappointing. But I felt like there were glimpses and flashes when I was in Charlotte that I was the same player. After I did that, I got back to where I was and I was cool with it.
I had career highs in Charlotte that I had never had. I had 41 in three quarters, so I was like, OK, I’m back. I was proud of that and that was something where I was like it hasn’t worked out with injuries and stuff and that’s a big reason why the team stuff never worked out, which was disappointing. But I’m at peace with that now."
Gordon Hayward in his own words: On retirement, injuries, Celtics championship and more
Some interesting quotes:
"That was probably the hardest season of my career. That was the season we were the most stacked on paper, but everyone had so many individual agendas. We were competing against each other and that’s the reason why we struggled all regular season. For me, everyone’s saying why should he get opportunities, but I’m sitting there saying I’m not even getting opportunities. I think I was used way less than I had ever been used in my career. Mentally, I was messed up. That season was super tough. That was definitely the hardest year of my career. But I pushed through it and then we were right there that next season in the bubble. "
"
When did you feel you were satisfied with your career?
It was probably the first year in Charlotte. I wanted to be an All-Star so bad and I did that. Then, I was hoping to win a title and continue that as I came over to Boston and then the major injury happened. Then it was like, I want to prove that I’m still the player that I was. I feel like those first couple of years in Charlotte, I did that. We didn’t win as a team and I got injured, it seemed like every year. I was healthy up until that major injury (in 2017) and then it seemed like after that, every year, there was something that was just out of my control. That part was disappointing. But I felt like there were glimpses and flashes when I was in Charlotte that I was the same player. After I did that, I got back to where I was and I was cool with it.
I had career highs in Charlotte that I had never had. I had 41 in three quarters, so I was like, OK, I’m back. I was proud of that and that was something where I was like it hasn’t worked out with injuries and stuff and that’s a big reason why the team stuff never worked out, which was disappointing. But I’m at peace with that now."