Beltran to the Yankees - 3 year deal

hbk72777

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rembrat said:
 
Because the Yankees addressed a need they didn't have. They burned $15MM and the bullpen and rotation is still god awful.
 
 
 
 
We still don't know what they have planned. I'm pretty sure they know they need another starter
 

Sprowl

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bosox1025 said:
The Yankees don't seem to realize that no matter how strong their offense is next year, they don't stand a chance unless they upgrade that dogshit rotation + bullpen.
 
They did. Phil Hughes signed with the Twins.
 

rembrat

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Yaz4Ever said:
Sprowl, out of those guys I'd say Gardner has the most trade value and is moved to fill another void - most notably SP.
 
Not necessarily. Cashman could have a time machine in the works and use it to travel back to when Wells, Ichiro, Beltran, and Soriano were superstars.
 

Yaz4Ever

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CGSO said:
Why is everyone happy about this? Beltran is a really good player.
Because Beltran isn't a SP, Closer, 2B, or 3B.  Nor is he insurance for Jeter's inevitable breakdown.  Having to rely on Brendan Ryan and Kelly Johnson more than they should is always a good thing.
 

OCST

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Besides the fact that they now have more outfielders than there are rhythm guitarists in Lynyrd Skynyrd, and that their cumulative age is 836, this is a bad idea for another reason: Beltran is a quiet loner who hates the NY media bullshit.  His stint with the Mess was a disaster.
 
What fun!
 

MakMan44

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They should've just paid Cano instead of making this deal, at least he filled a legitimate hole they had. 
 

Yaz4Ever

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OilCanShotTupac said:
Besides the fact that they now have more outfielders than there are rhythm guitarists in Lynyrd Skynyrd, and that their cumulative age is 836, this is a bad idea for another reason: Beltran is a quiet loner who hates the NY media bullshit.  His stint with the Mess was a disaster.
 
What fun!
As much as I'd like this to be true, he did sign with the Yankees.  It's not like he was traded to them without his consent.  If this is true, any undo pressure this causes is just fine with me.
 

Hoplite

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CGSO said:
Why is everyone happy about this? Beltran is a really good player.
 
No, he's not. He's in his late 30's and he was worth 2 WAR last year. His defense is atrocious and the Yankees are already flush with outfielders and DH types. This is a terrible use of resources that screams PR move.
 

hbk72777

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OilCanShotTupac said:
Besides the fact that they now have more outfielders than there are rhythm guitarists in Lynyrd Skynyrd, and that their cumulative age is 836, this is a bad idea for another reason: Beltran is a quiet loner who hates the NY media bullshit.  His stint with the Mess was a disaster.
 
What fun!
 
 
With the way members of LS drop dead, it doesn't hurt to have a surplus
 

TomRicardo

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Has a team ever been assembled with so much declining talent?  Seriously the entire team is made up of guys that you say "Wow they use to be good"
 

LuckyBen

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We still don't know what they have planned. I'm pretty sure they know they need another starter

Well they are running out of money to do so first off. Do Garza or Santana really make this team that much better?
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Panic move.  I was also hoping the Yankees would sign Beltran.  A 3-year deal is sweet!
 
Yankees gain 2 compensation picks: losing Cano and Granderson.
 
lost draft picks: Signing McCann, Ellsbury, and Beltran (the Yankees lose their first round pick and the 2 compensation picks for Cano and Granderson).
 
Kuroda was resigned.  So, it is now set in stone, the Yankees earliest pick in the 2014 draft will be no earlier than the second round.  If they sign another QO free agent, their earliest pick will be in the third round.
 
Cashman is too smart for this.  The Steinbrenners must be getting involved with baseball operations.
 

Wingack

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rembrat said:
 
Because the Yankees addressed a need they didn't have. They burned $15MM and the bullpen and rotation is still god awful.
Why are you assuming they are going to stop here? All signs are pointing to them acquiring every warm body they can.
 

hbk72777

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LuckyBen said:
Well they are running out of money to do so first off. Do Garza or Santana really make this team that much better?
 
 
Neither one do. I wouldn't mind Arroyo though.
 
But maybe a 3 team trade with someone getting Gardner for a pitcher??
 

Greg29fan

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Wingack said:
Why are you assuming they are going to stop here? All signs are pointing to them acquiring every warm body they can.
At this point I'm expecting them to sign the frozen head of Ted Williams too.
 

moondog80

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I'll bet they trade Gardner and get something useful, and then pay someone to take Wells and/or Ichiro.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Greg29fan said:
At this point I'm expecting them to sign the frozen head of Ted Williams too.
I think they'd find a way to screw that up too and wind up with a frozen John Henry instead.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yaz4Ever said:
Sprowl, out of those guys I'd say Gardner has the most trade value and is moved to fill another void - most notably SP.
 
He does, but he's only got a year left before Free Agency, so his value is limited. If he agrees to a reasonable long-term deal, his value will increase, but if he's intent on playing this year out and hitting the open market, who is going to give up much of value?
 


They won the '96 World Series with the 1988 All Star team
 
Well, other than Pettitte, Jeter, Rivera, and Williams - 2 Sure fire Hall of Famers, and two guys worthy of consideration.
 

rembrat

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Wingack said:
Why are you assuming they are going to stop here? All signs are pointing to them acquiring every warm body they can.
 
Well, I'm working under the assumption that they want to stay under 189 but if that no longer the case then you can almost pencil Tanaka as their #3 come April. Money to blow.
 

Yaz4Ever

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Ed Hillel said:
 
He does, but he's only got a year left before Free Agency, so his value is limited. If he agrees to a reasonable long-term deal, his value will increase, but if he's intent on playing this year out and hitting the open market, who is going to give up much of value?
If you were him, would you agree to a reasonable long-term deal at this point?  Everyone else is getting theirs, why not him?  He's half the age of most of the guys they're signing lately.
 

Hoplite

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Wingack said:
Why are you assuming they are going to stop here? All signs are pointing to them acquiring every warm body they can.
 
Won't they be running up against the $189 million limit soon? I don't think they traded for Wells and Soriano and let Cano walk only to go over the cap anyways.
 

The Gray Eagle

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FanSinceBoggs said:
Panic move.  I was also hoping the Yankees would sign Beltran.  A 3-year deal is sweet!
 
Yankees gain 2 compensation picks: losing Cano and Granderson.
 
lost draft picks: Signing McCann, Ellsbury, and Beltran (the Yankees lose their first round pick and the 2 compensation picks for Cano and Granderson).
 
Kuroda was resigned.  So, it is now set in stone, the Yankees earliest pick in the 2014 draft will be no earlier than the second round.  If they sign another QO free agent, their earliest pick will be in the third round.
 
Cashman is too smart for this.  The Steinbrenners must be getting involved with baseball operations.
 
Someone said it on another thread: in 1995-1996, the Yankees produced a bunch of young stars that carried them to multiple titles, and they have spent every year since making sure that that never happens again.
 

curly2

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OilCanShotTupac said:
Besides the fact that they now have more outfielders than there are rhythm guitarists in Lynyrd Skynyrd, and that their cumulative age is 836, this is a bad idea for another reason: Beltran is a quiet loner who hates the NY media bullshit.  His stint with the Mess was a disaster.
 
What fun!
 
It may have been a "disaster" with the media (I don't remember it, but maybe it was), but after a bad first year, Beltran was terrific as a Met. OPS+ by seasons as a Met: 97, 150, 125, 130, 144 and 109 in half a season (good enough to get them Wheeler in a trade).
 

snowmanny

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I'm pretty sure this puts them within five million or so of the salary cap. So they can clear salary (no clue how), trade for a low salary starter, or blow through the cap and cost themselves tons of dough. Or do like a four man rotation.

Sort of surprised if they take themselves out of the Tanaka bidding, though maybe the new rules discouraged them since his salary is likely to be higher than expected.
 

Stan Papi Was Framed

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The Gray Eagle said:
 
Someone said it on another thread: in 1995-1996, the Yankees produced a bunch of young stars that carried them to multiple titles, and they have spent every year since making sure that that never happens again.
so it is written, so it shall be, forevermore.  and, verily, the multitudes rejoice
 
headed to bed with the schaudenfraude side of my brain reveling in Cano and Beltran, the non-schaudenfraude side gratefully welcoming back Napoli
 

snowmanny

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Or maybe they have reason to believe ARod will NOT be suspended for all of 2013 in which case the $189MM is impossible anyway.
 

koufax37

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Hoplite said:
 
No, he's not. He's in his late 30's and he was worth 2 WAR last year. His defense is atrocious and the Yankees are already flush with outfielders and DH types. This is a terrible use of resources that screams PR move.
 
If we are going to go small sample size on defensive statistics, I will see his "-1.5WAR in 2013" and raise you a "wow, he just robbed a grand slam!".  He is getting older, but I don't think he is a -1.5 fielder going forward, and the year before he was a 0 fielder.
 
I think this is a good move for the Yankees as long as the other shoe drops (getting some value for one of their other outfielders, with Beltran making them better).  His three year WAR trend is 4.5, 3.8, 2.4.  He has lost a step, but I don't think expecting 2 WAR this year or calling his defense atrocious is an accurate picture.
 
He didn't fit the Red Sox perfectly, but I was hoping for him, and he isn't a perfect fit for the Yankees, but if they move another (inferior to Beltran) outfielder for pitching, then it is a good deal for them and adding a quality player who has established he doesn't wilt when the lights are brightest.
 

The Gray Eagle

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I will say that in a vacuum, the Beltran signing is a pretty good one. He can play RF in that ballpark for the next 3 years, he's a Hall of Fame talent switch hitter, and still has some gas in the tank. I don't relish facing him next year at all. 
 
But in context, where they have collected so many old guys who make so much money, it's kind of funny. I mean Beltran will play well for them next year, but they will also have to pay Vernon Wells' contract after they cut him and also pay Suzuki to sit on the bench, and also gave up a high draft pick. And they do this on the day they let Cano walk to the Mariners! 
 

Pedro's Complaint

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So the starting OF is Gardner, Ells, and Beltran with Soriano primarily at DH (but Beltran seeing time there) and Ichiro and Wells as sunk cost? Does Wells even make the roster in that scenario?
 

hbk72777

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I wonder how much of the Beltran move was to screw the Mariners. There was talk of Seattle signing him. With Granderson going to the Mets, there aren't many big bats left, just Choo and Cruz.
 
Cano is going to be a big fish in a little pond for at least his first year.
 

Hoplite

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koufax37 said:
 
If we are going to go small sample size on defensive statistics, I will see his "-1.5WAR in 2013" and raise you a "wow, he just robbed a grand slam!".  He is getting older, but I don't think he is a -1.5 fielder going forward, and the year before he was a 0 fielder.
 
I think this is a good move for the Yankees as long as the other shoe drops (getting some value for one of their other outfielders, with Beltran making them better).  His three year WAR trend is 4.5, 3.8, 2.4.  He has lost a step, but I don't think expecting 2 WAR this year or calling his defense atrocious is an accurate picture.
 
He didn't fit the Red Sox perfectly, but I was hoping for him, and he isn't a perfect fit for the Yankees, but if they move another (inferior to Beltran) outfielder for pitching, then it is a good deal for them and adding a quality player who has established he doesn't wilt when the lights are brightest.
 
It's not an issue of sample size. Over the last five years he's had a -20.1 UZR in right field. Beltran looked painfully slow in the World Series. Even Manny would rob home runs from time to time, that doesn't mean he wasn't a terrible fielder.
 

FanSinceBoggs

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Rough Carrigan said:
So . . the yankees didn't want to pay for Cano's age 38, 39 and 40 seasons.  Okay.  That makes sense.  But they just paid for Carlos Beltran's age 37, 38 and 39 seasons.
 
Good point.
 

rembrat

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Good luck to Girardi delivering the news to either Beltran (2 career games) or Ichiro (44 career games) that one of them will be playing LF.
 

glennhoffmania

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My guess is that Cashman signed this deal without his bosses' approval as a big fuck you for forcing Ellsbury and McCann on him.  This makes zero sense unless they have a big trade lined up.  This team needs pitching and all they've done so far is overpay for three position players- two of which play positions at which they already had a decent player.  I have no idea what's going on over there.
 

MakMan44

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rembrat said:
Good luck to Girardi delivering the news to either Beltran (2 career games) or Ichiro (44 career games) that one of them will be playing LF.
Isn't (unless he gets traded) Gardner-Ellsbury-Beltran their best OF on both sides?
 

hbk72777

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rembrat said:
Good luck to Girardi delivering the news to either Beltran (2 career games) or Ichiro (44 career games) that one of them will be playing LF.
 
 
The Yankees aren't above moving players to new positions to fit their best bats. Sheffield to first , Posada at first/second etc
 

Sampo Gida

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rembrat said:
Good luck to Girardi delivering the news to either Beltran (2 career games) or Ichiro (44 career games) that one of them will be playing LF.
 
Ichiro will be the 4th OFer.  Soriano in LF, Beltran in RF, Gardner packaged with one of the C prospects for a SP'er.
 

JMDurron

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I'm wondering if Beltran as the DH to keep him healthy, with Soriano in RF doesn't make more sense.  Gardner would stay in LF.  If you've got two bad RFers, might as well put the more brittle one at DH.  Ichiro and Wells can be...um...well...ok, I have no fucking idea.  Gardner as trade bait pairs a bad defensive OF with a questionable pitching staff (assuming Gardner brings someone worthwhile as a part of a package).  Gardner staying leaves two OFers with less than zero trade value who have to be moved, who might bring back a starter who doesn't have leprosy at best.  
 

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SemperFidelisSox said:
It's not that difficult. Ellsbury in CF, Gardner in LF, Beltran in RF. Ichiro and Wells are on the bench, Soriano is the primary DH. Gardner is gone next year, or moved in a trade.
This sounds about right. Adds offense over what Ichiro would provide. Yankee Stadium RF isn't too bad, and if Gardner isn't traded, he and Ellsbury can cover a lot of ground. Beltran will be ok in RF.

Another deal I don't much care for, but I'm not tore up about it. Beltran is old, but he can still hit right now. Projecting three years out for him is easier than 10 years out for Cano.
 

terrisus

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koufax37 said:
His three year WAR trend is 4.5, 3.8, 2.4.  He has lost a step, but I don't think expecting 2 WAR this year or calling his defense atrocious is an accurate picture.
 
So his WAR has gone: 
4.5 -> 3.8 -> 2.4
(0.7 decrease -> 1.4 decrease)
 
But you see another 0.4 decrease from this year to next year, a year he will be 37 in the first month of, as an inaccurate prediction?
 
EDIT: BRef has his WAR as 3.5 -> 3.8 -> 2.4, FG has it as 4.3 -> 3.3 -> 2.0, so, unless I'm missing something, not sure where the 4.5 came from.