Beltran to the Yankees - 3 year deal

The Mort Report

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Come on guys, Cashman has never had to deal with staying under the cap in his Yankee life.  He's been programmed to respond to a rival's, especially the Sox, signing of any magnitude.  He went with "oh shit, we already have a full outfield, but its Carlos Beltran!! Look at our shiny new toy media!!"  Next on deck? Signing Drew for 4 years at 16 million to play short with Jeter
 

MakMan44

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Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees make a move to sign Drew now. 
 

PedroKsBambino

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rembrat said:
 
I think Cashman has yet to sign a player this off-season. Perhaps Kuroda. Everything else reeks of Levine.
 
I think Cashman has always been this way, actually----there's really no series of 'good moves' that suggests he's anything but Jim Bowden with a bigger checkbook is there?
 

Doctor G

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MakMan44 said:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees make a move to sign Drew now. 
Drew makes a lot more sense to the Dodgers than he does to the Yankees. The Yankees are already pretty lefthanded on offense.
 

DennyDoyle'sBoil

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Well, the Yankees are all in now on A-Rod getting suspended for the full year.  Either that, or they never had any intention of staying under the cap.
 
They are now at $209,500,000 for 13 players under contract.  They are getting about $36,500,000 back from other teams for Soriano and Wells.  That's $173 million.  With $10.8 required for benefits, and the need to pay their arbitration and players under contract, they are over without signing anyone else.  There's really nobody they can trade to get salary relief from the 13 signed.  Even if A-Rod is suspended for half the year, I don't know if they can stay under.  Heck, they may not stay under even if he stays suspended for the whole year.
 
As an aside, a lawyer friend who has some experience in the area was telling me that he was surprised by how good A-Rod's complaint is in his lawsuit.  He said he assumed that because A-Rod is a raving lunatic and his lawyers must be the same, but he said the complaint is really well written, surprisingly articulate, and might actually get some traction despite its conspiracy theory vibe.  I would think the combination of the Yankees making repeated public statements about getting under the cap, and then blowing it away before the arbitrator's ruling comes down, certainly isn't going to hurt their argument that this is a big conspiracy designed to give the Yankees relief and keep the league's biggest market team happy.  
 

Sampo Gida

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JMDurron said:
I'm wondering if Beltran as the DH to keep him healthy, with Soriano in RF doesn't make more sense.  Gardner would stay in LF.  If you've got two bad RFers, might as well put the more brittle one at DH.  Ichiro and Wells can be...um...well...ok, I have no fucking idea.  Gardner as trade bait pairs a bad defensive OF with a questionable pitching staff (assuming Gardner brings someone worthwhile as a part of a package).  Gardner staying leaves two OFers with less than zero trade value who have to be moved, who might bring back a starter who doesn't have leprosy at best.  
 
Soriano has never played RF, that switch is not as easy as it sounds.  Ellsbury covers a lot of ground and Soriano showed he could play a passable LF.  You have Ichiro as a late inning defensive replacement. 
 
Wells makes nothing, or I should say he is being paid by LAA, so he could actually have a bit of trade value, but not enough to land a decent starter.  Same with Ichiro even if the Yankees ate some salary.
 
Gardner is a FA after next year and will be making about 4-5 million and they will be paying Ichiro to 6 million to be a back up OF'er already.  I like Gardner but he is no longer the base stealing threat he once was. One of them has to go and he will land the biggest return in a trade.
 
I suspect Jeter will be playing more DH than they are letting on, so not sure Beltran as DH is an option, and why would they pay Beltran as much to be a DH as David Ortiz makes?
 
Right now, the optimum lineup based on what the Yankees have now would seem to be
 
Ellsbury-CF
Beltran-RF
Tex-1B
Soriano-LF
McCann-C
Johnson-2B
Wells/Jeter-DH
Nunez-3B
Jeter/Ryan-SS
 
Bottom half of the order looks pretty weak. Hope they do something about that (I know Jeter will never bat 9th, but I am not as optimistic he will return to 2012 form).
 

hbk72777

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Bob Montgomery's Helmet Hat said:
Why would that make any sense for SF?
 
 
They gave Lincecum $35 mill over 2 years, so sense isn't their strong point
 

Sampo Gida

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Well, the Yankees are all in now on A-Rod getting suspended for the full year.  Either that, or they never had any intention of staying under the cap.
 
They are now at $209,500,000 for 13 players under contract.  They are getting about $36,500,000 back from other teams for Soriano and Wells.  That's $173 million.  With $10.8 required for benefits, and the need to pay their arbitration and players under contract, they are over without signing anyone else.  There's really nobody they can trade to get salary relief from the 13 signed.  Even if A-Rod is suspended for half the year, I don't know if they can stay under.  Heck, they may not stay under even if he stays suspended for the whole year.
 
 
Gardner will make 4-5 million so they can deal him, but assuming 15 million for the other 12 roster spots that's 209 million.  If Arod gets 162 games, that brings it down about 181.  If only 100 games, they are over 189.
 
So they are really one significant signing away from being over 189 even with Arod suspended for the year.  That precludes adding a Tanaka or a significant free agent signing for the bullpen.  In other words, their pitching would be shit unless Pineda is back and they get the bullpen help from the farm. It's hard to believe they will go with Nunez at 3B.
 
Of course, there is nothing stopping them from being over 189 on opening day and then selling off at the trading deadilne if the team does not perform due to injuries or whatever.
 

Murderer's Crow

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DennyDoyle'sBoil said:
Well, the Yankees are all in now on A-Rod getting suspended for the full year.  Either that, or they never had any intention of staying under the cap.
 
They are now at $209,500,000 for 13 players under contract.  They are getting about $36,500,000 back from other teams for Soriano and Wells.  That's $173 million.  With $10.8 required for benefits, and the need to pay their arbitration and players under contract, they are over without signing anyone else.  There's really nobody they can trade to get salary relief from the 13 signed.  Even if A-Rod is suspended for half the year, I don't know if they can stay under.  Heck, they may not stay under even if he stays suspended for the whole year.
 
As an aside, a lawyer friend who has some experience in the area was telling me that he was surprised by how good A-Rod's complaint is in his lawsuit.  He said he assumed that because A-Rod is a raving lunatic and his lawyers must be the same, but he said the complaint is really well written, surprisingly articulate, and might actually get some traction despite its conspiracy theory vibe.  I would think the combination of the Yankees making repeated public statements about getting under the cap, and then blowing it away before the arbitrator's ruling comes down, certainly isn't going to hurt their argument that this is a big conspiracy designed to give the Yankees relief and keep the league's biggest market team happy.  
 
I'm surprised no reliable writers have done a full analysis of the payroll. I do think we can make the assumption here that the Yankees have a pretty good idea of how much room they have to stay under $189 and they more than likely are going to make every effort to do so. 
 
I don't think Arods salary is affecting their planning too much. They can pretend he is getting suspended and try to stay under $189 because the worst case scenario, him not being suspended, probably doesn't change what they would have done with the available free agents anyway.
 

hbk72777

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One thing MLBN brought up, they have Tex back and Beltran, so they have 2 switch hitters. It does give him a little flexibility again.
 

E5 Yaz

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hbk72777 said:
One thing MLBN brought up, they have Tex back and Beltran, so they have 2 switch hitters. It does give him a little flexibility again.
 
One of the few times Teixeira, Beltran and flexibility will ever be seen in the same sentence
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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hbk72777 said:
 
 
They gave Lincecum $35 mill over 2 years, so sense isn't their strong point
 
This is a thread about the Yankees signing Beltran.   And possibly one to make fun of them for doing so.  That said, SF isn't trading for Ichiro (where would he play for starters?  They don't need outfielders).  You knocking them for signing a fan favorite to an admittedly big two year contract but for something they need (starting pitching) isn't adding to this thread.  Btw, the senseless San Francisco Giants have won two out of the last four World Series.
 
Let's resume our focus on this transaction.  I think folks here are missing out on the obvious with the Yankees.  Their line-up is now tailor-made for sponsorships from the likes of big pharma such as Eliquis, Axiron and Cialis.    
 

Sox and Rocks

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Carlos Beltran, age 34, coming off 154 OPS+ = 2 years, $26 million
Carlos Beltran, age 36, coming off 128 OPS+ = 3 years, $45 million
 
This fact either speaks to the changing market dynamics, the mfy being poorly run, or a combination of both.  I go with both.  
 

Sampo Gida

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Sox and Rocks said:
Carlos Beltran, age 34, coming off 154 OPS+ = 2 years, $26 million
Carlos Beltran, age 36, coming off 128 OPS+ = 3 years, $45 million
 
This fact either speaks to the changing market dynamics, the mfy being poorly run, or a combination of both.  I go with both.  
 
In 2011 Beltran had had his first healthy year in 3 years.  It was not sure if this was a fluke so the previous 2 years were weighted a bit more heavily.  He has now come off his 3rd straight healthy year, alleviating some of those concerns, although he is 2 years older.  Also, it may be that the Yankees feel his power numbers will improve at YS3 compared to Busch Stadium, and unlike the Cardinals can always move him to DH in the last year of the contract.  I could also point out that the Yankees revenues are so enormous it simply makes the value of an additional W more valuable to them than smaller market teams, and lets face it, who else was available to fill that hole?
Choo? Cruz? 
 
In the sense the farm system has made it necessary to sign a guy as old as Beltran to 3 yrs you are correct on the poorly run part, but they are not poorly run simply because they gave him an extra year,.
 

Sox and Rocks

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Sampo Gida said:
 
In 2011 Beltran had had his first healthy year in 3 years.  It was not sure if this was a fluke so the previous 2 years were weighted a bit more heavily.  He has now come off his 3rd straight healthy year, alleviating some of those concerns, although he is 2 years older.  Also, it may be that the Yankees feel his power numbers will improve at YS3 compared to Busch Stadium, and unlike the Cardinals can always move him to DH in the last year of the contract.  I could also point out that the Yankees revenues are so enormous it simply makes the value of an additional W more valuable to them than smaller market teams, and lets face it, who else was available to fill that hole?
Choo? Cruz? 
 
In the sense the farm system has made it necessary to sign a guy as old as Beltran to 3 yrs you are correct on the poorly run part, but they are not poorly run simply because they gave him an extra year,.
So you are essentially agreeing with me then?  
 
The Cardinals are probably the best run franchise in MLB.  The fact that they were willing to take a 2 year, high AAV gamble on a 34 year old Beltran coming off injury but didn't want to touch a 36 year old healthy Beltran should speak volumes.
 

TOleary25

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Sox and Rocks said:
So you are essentially agreeing with me then?  
 
The Cardinals are probably the best run franchise in MLB.  The fact that they were willing to take a 2 year, high AAV gamble on a 34 year old Beltran coming off injury but didn't want to touch a 36 year old healthy Beltran should speak volumes.
 
They can move Craig to RF and Adams to 1B and probably not lose much production if any, so I think it was a pretty obvious choice to let Beltran walk. They also have Taveras knocking at the door who probably belongs as a corner outfielder. But Cardinals are most certainly the best run franchise in the MLB for many other reasons.
 

DJnVa

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Yaz4Ever said:
Because Beltran isn't a SP, Closer, 2B, or 3B.  Nor is he insurance for Jeter's inevitable breakdown.  Having to rely on Brendan Ryan and Kelly Johnson more than they should is always a good thing.
 
This only matters is signing Beltran precludes them from doing those things. Not sure it does, since money doesn't really matter.
 

Snodgrass'Muff

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TOleary25 said:
But Cardinals are most certainly the best run franchise in the MLB for many other reasons.
A little off topic but I wouldn't take this as a given. The Red Sox deserve just as much consideration at this point.

Anyway, back on topic... I would say St Louis's choice to let Beltran walk and collect a pick for him feels analogous to the Sox and Drew. Top prospect ready to fill the void, a team that covets picks and is risk adverse, and an approach to roster building that emphasizes value over stars.

The Yankees, however, are going in the opposite direction and I'm convinced (like most here) there is a schism in the leadership causing this schitzophrenic behavior and that Cashman will eventually lose the battle and be bought out. I'd feel bad for him but he recently had to spend a day with Bobby V, and isn't that more than enough suffering?
 

Dewy4PrezII

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MakMan44 said:
Actually, I wouldn't be surprised to see the Yankees make a move to sign Drew now.
Drew will play left shortstop and Jeter will play right shortstop. He will usually be positioned on the first base side of second base, as in the Ortiz shift, but as respect to their captain he will still be listed in all media and on the lineup as the shortstop. Soriano will move to third base once Arod is officially suspended
 

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Apologies if this was posted elsewhere but interestingly the Yankees lose their compensation picks they would have received for losing Cano & Granderson, not their 2nd and 3rd round picks.
 
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/12/qualifying-offer-and-draft-pick-compensation-update.html
 
 
With Kuroda and Napoli rejoining their former clubs, their signings will not result in any draft pick changes. But the Yankees' other signings, in concert with their earlier deals with Jacoby Ellsbury and Brian McCann, mean that the team stands to lose one pick in the aggregate: New York will give up its first round pick while sacrificing the two compensatory picks it would otherwise have received for the departure of Cano and Granderson. (As Mark Feinsand of the New York Daily News reports via Twitter, an MLB official confirmed this result.)
 
 

hbk72777

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DeJesus Built My Hotrod said:
 
This is a thread about the Yankees signing Beltran.   And possibly one to make fun of them for doing so.  That said, SF isn't trading for Ichiro (where would he play for starters?  They don't need outfielders).  You knocking them for signing a fan favorite to an admittedly big two year contract but for something they need (starting pitching) isn't adding to this thread.  Btw, the senseless San Francisco Giants have won two out of the last four World Series.
 
Let's resume our focus on this transaction.  I think folks here are missing out on the obvious with the Yankees.  Their line-up is now tailor-made for sponsorships from the likes of big pharma such as Eliquis, Axiron and Cialis.    
 
 
20-29 record with an ERA of almost 5, What was I thinking? This is a great signing.
 
If we're basing good decision making on winning World Series, then the Yankees must be the best at it. Right?
 
And tired steroid jokes really elevate the conversation to stratospheric heights. We're in the upper echelons of the Algonquin Round Table.
 

glennhoffmania

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And tired steroid jokes really elevate the conversation to stratospheric heights. We're in the upper echelons of the Algonquin Round Table.


What are you talking about?
 

strek1

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Sampo Gida said:
 
In 2011 Beltran had had his first healthy year in 3 years.  It was not sure if this was a fluke so the previous 2 years were weighted a bit more heavily.  He has now come off his 3rd straight healthy year, alleviating some of those concerns, although he is 2 years older.  Also, it may be that the Yankees feel his power numbers will improve at YS3 compared to Busch Stadium, and unlike the Cardinals can always move him to DH in the last year of the contract.  I could also point out that the Yankees revenues are so enormous it simply makes the value of an additional W more valuable to them than smaller market teams, and lets face it, who else was available to fill that hole?
Choo? Cruz? 
 
In the sense the farm system has made it necessary to sign a guy as old as Beltran to 3 yrs you are correct on the poorly run part, but they are not poorly run simply because they gave him an extra year,.
 
So does the healthy streak indicate a long term trend or does it just mean he's overdue for a long DL stint?   Maybe they have a boatload of OF gloves because many of them are either over the hill or injury prone. Just keep plugging them in and out all year.  Gardner may have the highest trade value but what kind of quality arm are they going to get in return? Unless it's a minor league arm.   Are they going to get a starter in the FA market?  Would think that would be a must for them.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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hbk72777 said:
 
 
20-29 record with an ERA of almost 5, What was I thinking? This is a great signing.
 
If we're basing good decision making on winning World Series, then the Yankees must be the best at it. Right?
 
And tired steroid jokes really elevate the conversation to stratospheric heights. We're in the upper echelons of the Algonquin Round Table.
 
A couple of things -
 
When someone challenged the twitter rumor that the Yankees would send Ichiro to the Giants for Scutaro even though the trade doesn't make much sense, you suggested the Giants would still do it because of the Lincecum contract.  I simply don't agree that one transaction, no matter how questionable, suggests that a team will do another   We don't need to derail the thread but the Giants need rotation help, Lincecum is a fan favorite and they clearly felt that he might be due for a rebound (not that I agree mind you).   They may well be idiots but its folly for folks here to think they know more about a team's player than the team itself.  
 
And citing a pitcher's W/L record doesn't do much to support your case.  Chris Sale was 11-14 last season.  Does he suck too? 
 
Finally, I wasn't referencing steroids in my post - I was referencing drugs that treat problems that many older people get.  It was an old people joke.  Cause, you see, with Carlos Beltran in the fold, the Yankees are even OLDER!!!  Get it?  
 
Btw, I think I would fit right in at the Algonquin Round Table.