Anthony Davis: No Loyalty

Ed Hillel

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Marc Berman of the NY Post writes that his sources are telling him the Pelicans consider the Celtics to have the best package of young assets to offer them. Also says the Knicks need a 3rd team moreso than any other due to the Pelicans not liking what young players the Knicks can offer.

A third team willing go give up assets for nothing so the Knicks can get Anthony Davis?

I love these magical “third team” scenarios, man.
 

pjheff

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Marcus Morris was a nice pick up for Bradley when we needed salary relief to sign Hayward. BUT its time to move on from MaMo. Assets be damned! He'll need rotational minutes and we've seen enough of that soap opera. His transition defense has been consistently awful and will only get worse with age. In the halfcourt, he's not capable of rotating/helping on bigs down low or staying in front of a wing on the perimeter.
I don’t see anyone better on the roster or envision anyone better at 14/20/22. He has expressed an interest in returning, and I believe the team holds his Bird rights to extend him. I expect he’ll return, and the Celtics will be worse if he doesn’t.
 

the moops

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The Knicks have young players that are intriguing. Certainly could see some teams willing to give up different young players and/or picks to get them
 

benhogan

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I don’t see anyone better on the roster or envision anyone better at 14/20/22. He has expressed an interest in returning, and I believe the team holds his Bird rights to extend him. I expect he’ll return, and the Celtics will be worse if he doesn’t.
They could deal one of 14/20/22 to a rebuilder for a better/cheaper player than MaMo

His contract might be valuable in a trade and he would give the C's good offense off the bench if he can stay healthy. His knee concerns me and I think he'll worsen as he ages. At the moment, he's not a good 4 (big wing) to partner with Horford at the 5. Brad wants to play Horford at the 5, so they need a bigger wing that can rotate defensively. Every statistical measure shows MaMo as a bad defensive player and trending down.

Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Smart are better and I don't want MaMo taking their minutes in the future. Also could develop some younger players off the bench instead of guaranteeing MaMo for the next 3 seasons.
 
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benhogan

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nighthob

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The NBA superstar soap opera act is really jumping the shark. It is getting to the point where I'd rather watch the Jays develop as primary options vs. the Kyrie/AD 8 month saga.
Or worse, as can you see any scenario in which Irving and 24/7 are willing to bet their future on Klutch not just taking Davis to LA to work with their owner? I would wager that at best Irving signs a two year deal with a promise from Boston to trade when Davis walks. To be brutally frank I wish the Lakers had landed a top three pick so that this would be over in their favor and Boston officially move on.
 

DannyDarwinism

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https://twitter.com/SInow/status/1138793906739564544

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If Anthony Davis dons Celtics green next season, Rich Paul says it would be as a rental http://go.si.com/PIchfKh
Time to walk away. If they get some value as a facilitator, great, but giving up either Jays at this point would be really disappointing. AD has made his intentions clear and assuming he’s merely Rich Paul’s puppet or would change his mind after a season is wish casting.
 

lexrageorge

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It's funny to hear Rich Paul talk about the Lakers and Knicks historical greatness and legacies. But somehow the Celtics are strictly a one-year rental. And the Clippers are not even in play despite being a much better fit basketball-wise. I agree that it would be best for Ainge to start looking at Plan B unless acquiring Davis somehow becomes very inexpensive (there is a price where it makes sense, but I agree it's not probable due to the salary cap rules).
 

nighthob

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Time to walk away. If they get some value as a facilitator, great, but giving up either Jays at this point would be really disappointing. AD has made his intentions clear and assuming he’s merely Rich Paul’s puppet or would change his mind after a season is wish casting.
It would be funny if Boston helped out the Knicks and see Davis walk away from them next summer. I actually like Knox as a modern PF and think he'd be a much better player here than with the Knickleheads. And so long as Dolan owns the franchise future New York #1s are the gold standard in picks.
 

nighthob

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It's funny to hear Rich Paul talk about the Lakers and Knicks historical greatness and legacies. But somehow the Celtics are strictly a one-year rental. And the Clippers are not even in play despite being a much better fit basketball-wise. I agree that it would be best for Ainge to start looking at Plan B unless acquiring Davis somehow becomes very inexpensive (there is a price where it makes sense, but I agree it's not probable due to the salary cap rules).
The Celtics are a one year rental because the guy that signs Rich Paul's paychecks is a Laker. ;)
 

pjheff

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What is 14/20/22? If that is 3yrs for $56MM, what a waste of Wyc's money
Sorry if that reference was unclear. Those are the Celtics’ picks in the upcoming draft. I don’t find it likely that the team will select a player in those spots who is ready to take Mook’s minutes this year. Neither do I expect them to do better on the free agent market.

His contract might be valuable in a trade and he would give the C's good offense off the bench if he can stay healthy. His knee concerns me and I think he'll worsen as he ages. At the moment, he's not a good 4 (big wing) to partner with Horford at the 5. Brad wants to play Horford at the 5, so they need a bigger wing that can rotate defensively. Every statistical measure shows MaMo as a bad defensive player and trending down.
He is not without flaw or risk. He’s just the least flawed risk available to Ainge.

Tatum, Brown, Hayward, Horford, Smart are better and I don't want MaMo taking their minutes in the future.
Those are only five players. I’m not concerned about him taking minutes from them. I’m worried about his minutes being taken by lesser players.

Also could develop some younger players off the bench instead of guaranteeing MaMo for the next 3 seasons.
Nothing is guaranteed. As you noted above, Morris’ contract could be used in the future to facilitate a trade. But who exactly are these younger players to develop off the bench as rotation players on a playoff team? Ojeleye? Yabusele? Mid-to-late first round picks? Those guys would be major steps back for this team. Morris for all of his warts is a legitimate rotation payer for any team in the league. Those other guys are likely nothing more than deep bench fodder.
 

benhogan

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It's funny to hear Rich Paul talk about the Lakers and Knicks historical greatness and legacies. But somehow the Celtics are strictly a one-year rental. And the Clippers are not even in play despite being a much better fit basketball-wise. I agree that it would be best for Ainge to start looking at Plan B unless acquiring Davis somehow becomes very inexpensive (there is a price where it makes sense, but I agree it's not probable due to the salary cap rules).
I don't begrudge Rich Paul/AD here at all. In fact, the Celtics should appreciate their honesty. If Davis wants to play for the Lakers because he likes the marketing potential w/Bron or the SoCal weather or the color yellow, so be it. Danny should move on.

The NBA decides when a guy can enter the league with age rules, then decides that one team can control a player's rights the first 7 seasons, and then caps their max salary. These guys make more on their sneaker deals. The top players should dictate where they want to eventually play. I don't blame them or their agents one bit.
 

lexrageorge

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I don't begrudge Rich Paul/AD here at all. In fact, the Celtics should appreciate their honesty. If Davis wants to play for the Lakers because he likes the marketing potential w/Bron or the SoCal weather or the color yellow, so be it. Danny should move on.

The NBA decides when a guy can enter the league with age rules, then decides that one team can control a player's rights the first 7 seasons, and then caps their max salary. These guys make more on their sneaker deals. The top players should dictate where they want to eventually play. I don't blame them or their agents one bit.
I don't disagree. Free agents can play wherever they want for any reason; they earned that right. I was pointing out a rather amusing contradiction, because the conventional wisdom is that Boston cannot attract top tier players because the modern player doesn't care about a franchise's past history and legacy. Meanwhile, Paul starts touting the legacies and traditions of the Knicks of all teams.

I don't blame players or their agents for leveraging the system as it exists. I don't have to like the obvious conflict of interest of LeBron James being a business partner of Klutch, but I realize I'm in the minority here on that. Nor do I have to like the fact that Paul's attempts to poison the Celtics locker room dynamic simply because he didn't like the way the Pelicans were handling the negotiations with Davis, which is a bigger problem when given the business conflicts, IMO.
 

Tony C

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Shouldn't your beef be with the Pels? They are the ones who were treating AD like a piece of meat rather than a business partner with whom they're having a split. Paul and AD were just protecting their interests.

I don't begrudge Rich Paul/AD here at all. In fact, the Celtics should appreciate their honesty. If Davis wants to play for the Lakers because he likes the marketing potential w/Bron or the SoCal weather or the color yellow, so be it. Danny should move on.

The NBA decides when a guy can enter the league with age rules, then decides that one team can control a player's rights the first 7 seasons, and then caps their max salary. These guys make more on their sneaker deals. The top players should dictate where they want to eventually play. I don't blame them or their agents one bit.
Yep, that article was a bit over the top and wordy as hell (downside to internet reporting -- lack of word limits), but the essence was on-point: players like AD are striving to control their destinies exactly as they should -- we know they're underpaid. And Paul as the agent of that is doing his job and doing it well.

And, yeah, AD will be a Laker.
 

Devizier

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Really the question comes down to how much the Lakers are willing to pay to make this happen. I suppose the Knicks have an outside shot but I think that's just a smokescreen.
 

nighthob

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Really the question comes down to how much the Lakers are willing to pay to make this happen. I suppose the Knicks have an outside shot but I think that's just a smokescreen.
Yeah, I agree that Klutch is pretending that there are other possibilities, but the Paul statement about Davis' free agency makes it certain that he's walking no matter who trades for him (other than the Lakers).
 

The Social Chair

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I feel like a team can call Paul on his bluff. The Lakers would need to save cap space to sign Davis as a free agent which means Lebron has to punt on another year and wait until he's 36 to get AD.
 

ehaz

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I mean, didn’t Rich Paul in that interview say that Davis will be a free agent no matter what? He certainly mentioned the Knicks and Lakers as intriguing trade possibilities but he did not say Davis would re-sign automatically with either. What I got from the interview was that Davis would enter free agency no matter what.
 

ifmanis5

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Also from that article:
“See, everybody wants to fabricate the facts when it’s me,” Paul says. “That’s just like saying, ‘No, A-Rod, don’t marry J-Lo. Are you out of your f---in’ mind, man?’ This is Jennifer Lopez! I mean, who would you rather me marry? The Lakers are Jennifer Lopez. You don’t want me to date Jennifer Lopez? Give me a reason I shouldn’t date J-Lo!”
 

cheech13

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Really the question comes down to how much the Lakers are willing to pay to make this happen. I suppose the Knicks have an outside shot but I think that's just a smokescreen.
If they are willing to put all of Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/#4 on the table that probably gets it done. Especially if any of those young guys can be spun off for another lottery pick or another All-Star caliber player.
 

ehaz

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““Where he’s going to land? I have no idea,” Paul says. “And it don’t matter. We’re going into free agency. Why does it matter to me where he goes? Earth: We’re going into free agency. He has a year, he has to play. But after that, I can’t say it no bigger: WE ARE GOING INTO FREE AGENCY. 2020: ANTHONY DAVIS WILL BE IN FREE AGENCY.””
 

lexrageorge

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““Where he’s going to land? I have no idea,” Paul says. “And it don’t matter. We’re going into free agency. Why does it matter to me where he goes? Earth: We’re going into free agency. He has a year, he has to play. But after that, I can’t say it no bigger: WE ARE GOING INTO FREE AGENCY. 2020: ANTHONY DAVIS WILL BE IN FREE AGENCY.””
The most literal interpretation is that Davis is going to be a free agent because, in the event the salary cap increases enough, he doesn't want his next contract to be capped by the 120% raise governing extensions.
 

HomeRunBaker

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A third team willing go give up assets for nothing so the Knicks can get Anthony Davis?

I love these magical “third team” scenarios, man.
Who is claiming the 3rd team would give up assets for nothing? It benefits the Pels to involved a 3rd team to give them a variety of options aside from the right to pay Ingram, Ball and Kuzma enormous contracts over the next couple years. If a team likes one of these three players you can involve a 3rd team to give up a moderate lottery pick or another young player to send to the Pelicans for this player......rather than being stuck only with the options on the Lakers roster. I'd be surprised if a 3rd team isn't involved if Davis ends up being traded to the Lakers.
 

cheech13

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Who is claiming the 3rd team would give up assets for nothing? It benefits the Pels to involved a 3rd team to give them a variety of options aside from the right to pay Ingram, Ball and Kuzma enormous contracts over the next couple years. If a team likes one of these three players you can involve a 3rd team to give up a moderate lottery pick or another young player to send to the Pelicans for this player......rather than being stuck only with the options on the Lakers roster. I'd be surprised if a 3rd team isn't involved if Davis ends up being traded to the Lakers.
Exactly. This is the most likely scenario. I'd keep an eye on the Washington Wizards if and when they ever hire a GM. A team like the Knicks or Lakers could try to put together a package to acquire Bradley Beal, who could then be flipped with whatever is left over to New Orleans for AD.
 

Devizier

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If they are willing to put all of Ingram/Ball/Kuzma/#4 on the table that probably gets it done. Especially if any of those young guys can be spun off for another lottery pick or another All-Star caliber player.
I don't see how; that package more or less didn't get the job done during the season. While the pick's value has improved since then, Ingram's value has absolutely tanked since then.

I think the Lakers get it done by going Billy King with the deal. Maybe a third team is involved.
 

cheech13

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I don't see how; that package more or less didn't get the job done during the season. While the pick's value has improved since then, Ingram's value has absolutely tanked since then.

I think the Lakers get it done by going Billy King with the deal. Maybe a third team is involved.
New Orleans had no incentive to do that deal at the deadline. Beyond just the bad optics of dealing with Klutch after they went scorched earth, the Pelicans best move was to wait for the summer so that they could get the Celtics involved and see what picks the Knicks and Lakers ended up with. The summer offered more suitors and better clarity. They also had the knowledge that if needed they could circle back to the Lakers because that deal would still be on the table. The Lakers package is much better today as well since they have the #4 pick to offer and in February the best guess was that would be a non-lottery pick.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I think one additional dynamic that has changed is the Celtics interest level in selling out for AD likely has gone down given Kyrie's probable (?) path out of town. Everyone essentially still agrees a Tatum/Memphis pick deal from Celts is best anyone can put together for AD---but most now feel the Celts won't offer it. if Kyrie was 100% to re-sign, that's a different discussion
 

Devizier

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New Orleans had no incentive to do that deal at the deadline. Beyond just the bad optics of dealing with Klutch after they went scorched earth, the Pelicans best move was to wait for the summer so that they could get the Celtics involved and see what picks the Knicks and Lakers ended up with. The summer offered more suitors and better clarity. They also had the knowledge that if needed they could circle back to the Lakers because that deal would still be on the table. The Lakers package is much better today as well since they have the #4 pick to offer and in February the best guess was that would be a non-lottery pick.
I guess it depends on how much you rate the #4 in this draft; I'm not a draftnik but the dearth of blue chip prospects seems to indicate that the improvement while real is relatively marginal. Ingram was the lead asset in the deadline deal and the blood clots open up significant uncertainty.

The other reason why I see a "Billy King" deal is that the Lakers FO has no leadership and a strong incentive to push their chips in now. If you're the Pels, don't you go hard for 2022-2024-2026 #1s or some combination of those + pick swaps? Could be huge for them if they do.
 

CreedBratton

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The Celtics are a one year rental because the guy that signs Rich Paul's paychecks is a Laker. ;)

Yup, this is probably true but I would still roll the dice on one of year of AD. You could win a title next year & then if he walks? Who cares Celts are champs. That is the one & only goal. Tatum will never be as good as AD & is not a generational talent like AD that will lead Celts to a title unless he’s the second or third best player on a team. You go for this move every. Single. Time. Just ask the Raps. No Durant next year. Add AD to the Celts & they can do it. Yeah it’s fun to watch the young guys but I want to see new banners in the rafters not early exists. Obviously getting Davis guarantees nothing but the hardest thing to do in the NBA is to get a true superstar & to a win a title without a true superstar. Get Davis & you can accomplish both.
 

nighthob

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I feel like a team can call Paul on his bluff. The Lakers would need to save cap space to sign Davis as a free agent which means Lebron has to punt on another year and wait until he's 36 to get AD.
Or they could trade for DeRozan and sign Boogie as stop gaps, make the playoffs, make a run, and then sign Anthony Davis the following summer.
 

The Social Chair

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Or they could trade for DeRozan and sign Boogie as stop gaps, make the playoffs, make a run, and then sign Anthony Davis the following summer.
The Spurs would have traded Kawhi to the Lakers if they wanted those assets. Pop would never help that franchise out.
 
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bakahump

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I know the common consensus is that LBJ is a freak and will continue to play as (one of) the best player(s) in the world for the foreseeable future. But is that a lock?
I also dont know the state of Lebrons groin (thank goodness ;) ). Is it a potential long term thing?

what I am trying to get at is..
Lets say the Celts gamble on the "1 year rental of AD". In 20-21 When he could in theory sign with the Lakers LBJ is essentially 36 (Dec). Now the guy has no doubt been incredibly durable. But is it unrealistic to think that he may be beginning to show signs of cracking?
Keep in mind that if AD is kicked down the road another year, thats another year of heavy workload for LBJ as he tries to carry the 1 year signees (done in lieu of AD for 2019-20) back to a respectable playoff run.

If thats reasonable, from ADs perspective it might not make much sense for him to join a LBJ thats potentially breaking down (or on the verge) and is no longer the player he was, yet one that is still sucking up a 41 Million dollar max Slot.
From LBJs perspective he may realize that this is his last contract (expires After 21-22 when he is 36). So while he wont need the money, it also may not behoove his future business dealings if it appears that Klutch steered one of their prime clients to an LA team so an aging Lebron has someone to lean on. Maybe they should be called Crutch Sports Group. Instead it may behoove their business model for the Celts (or another historical team, so yeah lakers or Knicks included) to sign him to a mega contract and remain a relevant championship contender for the next 3 or so years (Not sure the Lakers or Knicks would be in that position).

So will Lebron hold up another 2-3 years? By a month into the next season he will have played more minutes (Playoff and Regular Season) then anyone not named Kareem or Karl. And he is accumulating mins about 1.16 times as fast as Kareem per season.

I think it could be seen one way if your uniting with a player for 2-4+ years of an extended run. You might allow your Agency to "pull some strings" and "cut some corners". Its another if you pull those strings for maybe a year or 2 of effective cooperation.
At 36 and showing wear, You might be better off letting your agency do as the market has always done, Get the most money in the best scenario (which includes competitive team and "enjoyable" environment). You might also not want to piss off another (along with the Pels) Franchise by "tampering". At least not for a guy who may well be breaking down by that point and only have @1 all star year left.

Now AD may actually want LA (or South beach or Phoenix or wherever..) over all else. But I am beginning to think that by kicking the can a year further down the road the LBJ factor would be that much more minimized. And if LBJ is no longer the driving reason to go to LA then do you go considering all else? Especially when LBJs 40+ million is essentially the same thing Kobe did in that it could potentially "gut the franchise" by paying a broken down star Max Money. In essence hamstringing the team from being able to put any talent around a "second fiddle" like AD after LBJs breakdown/retirement.
A (hopefully) deep playoff run, A Raucous Garden, Stable coach, GM and owner, and you begin to think that Boston is a pretty decent place to commit long term.

Fun Fact:
LBJ has already played 583 mins more then Kevin Garnett did in his entire (Reg and Playoff) career.
 

nighthob

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The Spurs would have traded Kawhi to the Lakers if he wanted those assets. Pop would never help that franchise out.
Except that they’re looking to dump DeRozan because they want no part of his next contract. So they can still get those assets, while having acquired Poetl and a low first, and made the playoffs in the meantime.
 

RedOctober3829

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Celtics and Lakers are engaged in trade talks with New Orleans on All-NBA star Anthony Davis, league sources tell me, @ZachLowe_NBA, @ramonashelburne and @WindhorstESPN. Lakers No. 4 pick has been discussed as trade chip to help Pels acquire high-level player in multi-team deals.

Who gets AD though? Is Lakers pick being used to get NO more assets with Davis going to Celtics??
 

DrewDawg

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CreedBratton

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djbayko

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Celtics and Lakers are engaged in trade talks with New Orleans on All-NBA star Anthony Davis, league sources tell me, @ZachLowe_NBA, @ramonashelburne and @WindhorstESPN. Lakers No. 4 pick has been discussed as trade chip to help Pels acquire high-level player in multi-team deals.

Who gets AD though? Is Lakers pick being used to get NO more assets with Davis going to Celtics??
I read that as two separate trade talks, not one big love triangle :)