Aaron Hernandez charged with 1st degree murder; released by Patriots

Status
Not open for further replies.

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
Easier said than done on the life coaching front. Look what Jones is going through with Dez. There are too many guys, too much free time, and not enough structure. This is not military life. Look at the V and N thead for AH comments when he signed the extension. Pats were hoodwinked.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,300
Chelmsford, MA
We're probably a long way off from it, but I do wonder whether CTE and concussions raises its head later on in this case.  The NFL is probably shitting themselves about the possibility.  I don't think it is either the cause of this or likely to work as a defense, obviously, but if it gets brought into this trial the NFL will see this issue pop up in a big way again.
 

Trlicek's Whip

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2009
5,608
New York City
Van Everyman said:
Is it stupidity? At this point, something's not adding up.
 
It wouldn't be a major criminal event without a drive-by seed of doubt being planted to attempt to provide years of internet tinfoil conspiracies. #freeaaronhernandez
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
bluefenderstrat said:
Just going back to the early conversation in this thread (nice job, RedSox13!), I can't imagine this theoretical majority exists after yesterday.  This is not a "hold your nose and root for the laundry" kind of deal.   I could rationalize the likes of Haynesworth, Talib, or even Stallworth, but I'm glad Hernandez will never play for the Patriots again, even if he somehow avoids life in prison.
 
You could rationalize rooting for a guy who demonstrably, admittedly killed another human being while driving under the influence but you are glad a guy who has been implicated - not tried, not convicted, not admitted - in the killing of another human being will never play for the team again?
 
I root for laundry. I was glad the Pats scored a touchdown when Stallworth caught his one pass of the season. But I was fully aware of who Stallworth was and was not "rooting" for him.
 
If for some reason Hernandez is not convicted and returns to the Patriots, I'll root for the Patriots and not for Hernandez. If Hernandez spends the rest of his life in jail, I'll be rooting for the Patriots. 
 
Maybe I'm making the same point that you are but I admit it bothers me to see Stallworth on the list of "rationalizations". He killed a man - we know this. That he is remorseful is nice, I guess. That he did it while under the influence with a car makes it no less awful than what Hernandez is accused of doing. YMMV.
 

RhaegarTharen

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,769
Wilmington, MA
It doesn't look (at this point) like the prosecution needs much more evidence than what they currently have (aside from the murder weapon) but I wonder what the chances are of Belichick, Kraft, or any current or former Pats players being called to the stand as character witnesses (either by the State or the defense)? 
 
Maybe I just like the image of Bill being held in contempt of court for refusing to comment on "players not on the team" and giving the Judge the patented Death Stare.
 

Trlicek's Whip

Member
SoSH Member
Feb 8, 2009
5,608
New York City
twibnotes said:
I wonder if we will learn that Hernandez thought his life was in danger perhaps due to getting wrapped up in some criminal enterprise. Isn't it odd that he installed a surveillance system with 14 cameras? Isn't it strange to flip out this way bc someone talked to your enemies? Is it possible that Lloyd knew something that represented a threat to Hernandez?

Hernandez is probably just a terrible person with anger issues and a wannabe-ganstah streak, but you do have to wonder.
 
The mentally incompetent to stand trial defense wouldn't be ridiculous to put out there given what you just laid out. Basically covers the "how can someone be so stupid?" committing this murder response as well.
 

johnmd20

mad dog
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 30, 2003
62,290
New York City
soxfan121 said:
Maybe I'm making the same point that you are but I admit it bothers me to see Stallworth on the list of "rationalizations". He killed a man - we know this. That he is remorseful is nice, I guess. That he did it while under the influence with a car makes it no less awful than what Hernandez is accused of doing. YMMV.
 
I don't know man, I think it's less awful to kill someone by mistake b/c you're being an idiot and driving drunk than it is to plan out the execution of someone for talking to the wrong people. I mean, they are both awful but vehicular manslaughter is certainly not as bad as premeditated murder, right?
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
teddykgb said:
We're probably a long way off from it, but I do wonder whether CTE and concussions raises its head later on in this case.  The NFL is probably shitting themselves about the possibility.  I don't think it is either the cause of this or likely to work as a defense, obviously, but if it gets brought into this trial the NFL will see this issue pop up in a big way again.
 
Would a judge even let this be heard?  I dont believe CTE cant be detected while the person is alive right, and the presence of concussions arent indicative proof of the existence of CTE.  I cant imagine a judge would let the defense present a disease that he might have, and even if he had it then the disease might have been a contributing factor. 
 

Corsi

isn't shy about blowing his wad early
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2010
12,955
Boston, MA
BOSTON (MyFoxBoston.com) -- FOX 25 has learned exclusively that investigators are looking into Aaron Hernandez as a possible suspect in a double murder that happened on July 16, 2012 in downtown Boston.
 
According to the Boston Police blog from that date, officers responded to the intersection of Shawmut Avenue and Herald Street just after 2 a.m. When they arrived, they found three people had been shot, two fatally, as they sat in a car at a traffic light.
 
The men were identified as Safiro Furtado and Daniel Abreu. The FOX 25 source said the men, who worked at a cleaning company in Dorchester, had just left a bar in the area.
 
Furtado and Abreu were sitting in the front seat of the vehicle when witnesses said the occupants of a gray or silver SUV with Rhode Island plates opened fire on it. The surviving victim was in the back seat. Investigators believed two others in the car fled the scene.
 
The source said that investigators were looking into Aaron Hernandez's connection to the killing.
 
On Wednesday, Hernandez was charged with murder in the death of 27-year-old Odin Lloyd, of Dorchester.
 
An investigation is ongoing.
http://www.myfoxboston.com/story/22702430/2013/06/27/source-hernandez-investigated-in-boston-double-killing#.UcxGEr150OA.twitter
 

Bergs

funky and cold
SoSH Member
Jul 22, 2005
21,963
soxfan121 said:
That he did it while under the influence with a car makes it no less awful than what Hernandez is accused of doing. YMMV.
 
I think it's safe to say that most of our "mileage may vary"...seriously?
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

T&A
SoSH Member
Feb 9, 2010
5,302
Providence, RI
soxfan121 said:
Maybe I'm making the same point that you are but I admit it bothers me to see Stallworth on the list of "rationalizations". He killed a man - we know this. That he is remorseful is nice, I guess. That he did it while under the influence with a car makes it no less awful than what Hernandez is accused of doing. YMMV.
 
He was on fire from being electrocuted in a hot air balloon.
 
At this point I consider him having had paid an appropriate price for his acts.
 

Rovin Romine

Johnny Rico
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Jul 14, 2005
25,798
Miami (oh, Miami!)
teddykgb said:
We're probably a long way off from it, but I do wonder whether CTE and concussions raises its head later on in this case.  The NFL is probably shitting themselves about the possibility.  I don't think it is either the cause of this or likely to work as a defense, obviously, but if it gets brought into this trial the NFL will see this issue pop up in a big way again.
 
Maybe not so much in the criminal case, but probably in the civil case which will be filed by LO's family.  As a thumbnail -  "diminished mental capacity" is not a defense to murder, unless one is *so* incapacitated that one literally does not know what one is doing *or* one is so incapacitated that they do not know what they are doing is wrong.  One could use diminished mental capacity to argue for a lesser sentence in a criminal case.
 
However, I don't think AH comes close to having a diminished mental capacity, unless he can muster a very persuasive medical expert.  If he can, this concept might be useful in the civil case, where he could argue that NFL bears some measure of responsibility for something like: a) creating or tolerating a culture of violence and b) reducing AH's ability to resist violent impulses, etc.  That would result in the NFL being named a defendant in the civil case.   Despite thinking the NFL would prevail, I can't imagine they'd want to litigate that instead of paying out a modest sum.  But you never know. 
 

wutang112878

Member
SoSH Member
Nov 5, 2007
6,066
Rovin Romine said:
Despite thinking the NFL would prevail, I can't imagine they'd want to litigate that instead of paying out a modest sum.  But you never know. 
 
From a PR perspective it would look awful if they made a payout, basically acknowledging some blame.  Whereas I am sure the case would bring out some bad press but it cant be as bad as admitting blame can it?  I just can envision what could come up during a case like that which would be so awful
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
A couple of weeks before the Patriots signed him to an extension. Mask slowly being removed from face of a monster, and quite a monster it is.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,300
Chelmsford, MA
Rovin Romine said:
Maybe not so much in the criminal case, but probably in the civil case which will be filed by LO's family.  As a thumbnail -  "diminished mental capacity" is not a defense to murder, unless one is *so* incapacitated that one literally does not know what one is doing *or* one is so incapacitated that they do not know what they are doing is wrong.  One could use diminished mental capacity to argue for a lesser sentence in a criminal case.
 
However, I don't think AH comes close to having a diminished mental capacity, unless he can muster a very persuasive medical expert.  If he can, this concept might be useful in the civil case, where he could argue that NFL bears some measure of responsibility for something like: a) creating or tolerating a culture of violence and b) reducing AH's ability to resist violent impulses, etc.  That would result in the NFL being named a defendant in the civil case.   Despite thinking the NFL would prevail, I can't imagine they'd want to litigate that instead of paying out a modest sum.  But you never know. 
 
Yeah, I was thinking it might come up in a sentencing scenario, more than anything, but hadn't thought of the civil trial.  I think it's all sort of out there, but as you said it makes even more sense on the civil side, where they're always looking for deeper pockets to include.
 

nolasoxfan

Member
SoSH Member
Jun 11, 2004
7,079
Displaced
dcmissle said:
Easier said than done on the life coaching front. Look what Jones is going through with Dez. There are too many guys, too much free time, and not enough structure. This is not military life. Look at the V and N thead for AH comments when he signed the extension. Pats were hoodwinked.
Can you post the V & N 'contract extension' link? Yes, I looked, but cannot locate. Thanks.
 

Luis Taint

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 7, 2012
5,883
I firmly believe that Aaron Hernandez and the Tsnarnev brothers are responsible for all the murders in the city of Boston.
 

dcmissle

Deflatigator
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Aug 4, 2005
28,269
There is this:


Hernandez received his flier from the coach when he was selected in the fourth round of the 2010 NFL Draft in spite of multiple failed drug tests and a recently reported association with people with gang ties that had some teams steering clear. The versatile offensive threat rewarded Belichick and company for their faith with 20 touchdowns and 2,316 receiving yards on 210 catches over the next three seasons (44 games, including the playoffs).
His efforts earned him a premature and sizable five-year extension in August of 2012, good for $41 million over seven seasons with $12.5 million of that guaranteed. Seemingly, all Hernandez had to do was stay out of trouble.

He spoke glowingly of Robert Kraft and the organization at the time, while simultaneously donating $50,000 to the Patriots owner's late wife Myras charitable foundation.

He changed my life, Hernandez said. Now Im able to basically have a good chance to be set for life, and have a good life He didnt need to give me the amount that he gave me, and knowing that he thinks I deserve that, he trusts me to make the right decisions, it means a lot You cant come here and act reckless and do your own stuff, and was one of the persons that I came here, I mightve acted the way I wanted to act, but you get changed by Bill Belichicks way. You get changed by the Patriots way.

http://www.boston.co...ikely_over.html
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
johnmd20 said:
I don't know man, I think it's less awful to kill someone by mistake b/c you're being an idiot and driving drunk than it is to plan out the execution of someone for talking to the wrong people. I mean, they are both awful but vehicular manslaughter is certainly not as bad as premeditated murder, right?
 
I tried to be precise with the words. We know what is alleged, not proved. Speculation versus facts and all that implies. 
 
I also would probably unpost that if I could because discussions of "what is worse?" (like the argument in the Penn St. threads about whether child rape is somehow worse than rape) are invariably emotional topics that have no satisfying answers at the end of them.
 
If rumors and speculation are true and Aaron Hernandez is a premeditated murderer then you may be correct in that aspect of the discussion. But it really wasn't the point I was trying to make and I apologize for trying (and apparently, failing) to make an argument about the rooting interests of fans vis-a-vis players who have killed other human beings.
 

steveluck7

Member
SoSH Member
May 10, 2007
4,018
Burrillville, RI
I wonder if at the end of the day, being drafted by the Patriots was one of the worst case scenarios for him (the others being getting drafted by the NYG or NYJ).  Being so close to the gang life he had grown up with could not have been good. Would things have been different had he been a Viking or a Bronco? 
 
Of course, with this new investigation, the possibility exists that he's a murdering thug who would have gotten into it no matter where he ended up
 

RedOctober3829

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 19, 2005
55,888
deep inside Guido territory
My thought is that he was involved in a gang in Bristol in his high school days and kept going into his college and pro days.  Once he got into the NFL, he started bankrolling all of the efforts.  With money and fame, he rose into the head honcho(or OG whichever you prefer) and was in charge of everything.  This is still just so surreal that a player that I grew to like because of his so-called "changed ways" and "changed his behavior off the field".  Turns out he is most likely a sociopathic cold-blooded murderer who thought he could get away with it.  Fuck this guy.  When this started to unfold, my naive thoughts were that he "never got away from the wrong crowd."  Turns out he IS the wrong crowd.
 
There's no place on Earth for these types of people.  If he did this Odin Lloyd murder, he didn't even have the balls to look at him as he mercilessly took his life.
 

crystalline

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 12, 2009
5,771
JP
fairlee76 said:
If the Pats were in the business of doing people favors, they never would have drafted him.  Hernandez being a millionaire and living less than 2 hours from his childhood crew was a disaster waiting to happen.  We saw how well it worked out for Herren, both at BC and with the Celts.
Apparently he decommitted from UConn and went to Florida in part to get away from his childhood crew. Being drafted by the Pats didn't help. On the other hand maybe his friends would have moved to Arizona if he had been drafted by them.
 
soxfan121 said:
 He killed a man - we know this. That he is remorseful is nice, I guess. That he did it while under the influence with a car makes it no less awful than what Hernandez is accused of doing. YMMV.
Really? Maybe you don't see the difference but the law sure does. I'm usually with you SF121, but this post is ridiculous.

Edit - Sorry, I had this window open for a while and didnt see you later post. My bad, didnt mean to pile on.
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
BannedbyNYYFans.com said:
Edit - Sorry, I had this window open for a while and didnt see you later post. My bad, didnt mean to pile on.
 
No problem Jack - like I said, I'd unpost it if I could because it is a poorly written way to get at what I was going for. 
 
Moral relativism discussions are a waste of everyone's time. My apologies again.
 

crystalline

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 12, 2009
5,771
JP
That murder last summer was right in front of Castle Square. Over the past few years there have been a number of shootings in the area related to rivalries between different housing properties like Villa Victoria, Annunciation Road.

Crazy if that shooting turns out to be related to Hernandez's crew instead of local rivalries.
 

Bob420

New Member
Jul 14, 2005
918
The quotes from the kid that played basketball with him in HS don't make it sound like there was much gang activity going on.  Now that we hear about this other double murder investigation, I wonder if Lloyd some how knew of it or talked about it.  That would make some sort of sense as to why Hernandez was in a hurry to get rid of him.
 

Judge Mental13

Scoops McGee
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2002
5,083
No problem Jack - like I said, I'd unpost it if I could because it is a poorly written way to get at what I was going for. 
 
Moral relativism discussions are a waste of everyone's time. My apologies again.
 
You can't edit your own posts? 
 
Not that I'm calling for you to do so, but accidentally killing somebody you had no intention of killing is quite a bit different than setting up and then carrying out a person's execution. 
 

Corsi

isn't shy about blowing his wad early
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 3, 2010
12,955
Boston, MA
Bob420 said:
The quotes from the kid that played basketball with him in HS don't make it sound like there was much gang activity going on.  Now that we hear about this other double murder investigation, I wonder if Lloyd some how knew of it or talked about it.  That would make some sort of sense as to why Hernandez was in a hurry to get rid of him.
 
I'm guessing one of the other two suspects are pinning that murder on Hernandez.
 

Judge Mental13

Scoops McGee
SoSH Member
Apr 16, 2002
5,083
The really amazing part of this is that an NFL superstar is involved in a murder and the more likely scenario is that his boys are going to flip on him
 
Assuming they haven't already, that is
 

mcaqua

Member
SoSH Member
Apr 15, 2011
306
Bob420 said:
The quotes from the kid that played basketball with him in HS don't make it sound like there was much gang activity going on.  Now that we hear about this other double murder investigation, I wonder if Lloyd some how knew of it or talked about it.  That would make some sort of sense as to why Hernandez was in a hurry to get rid of him.
 
 
TMZ has obtained a photo of Aaron Hernandez throwing up gang signs often
associated with the Bristol Bloods street gang in Connecticut ... while
dressed head-to-toe in red clothing.
 

 

RhaegarTharen

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,769
Wilmington, MA
FWIW (which isnt much) the chatter I'm hearing from home (next door to Bristol) was that he was associated with the Latin Kings.   I figure it's probably at least as accurate as the TMZ reporting (btw - that looks more like a Crips symbol than a Bloods one).
 
Edit:  A bunch of stuff about that TMZ thing make no sense.  He's making the Crips sign (see here:  Crips.   Bloods)  but is wearing red.  Probably just a photo of a stupid kid being funny that is now being picked up by revisionist history journalism. 
 
Also - not aware of any organized "Bristol Bloods" gang.  Any gang activity in Bristol would probably just be an offshoot of Hartford or New Britain gangs.  Doubtful they have an actual moniker. 
 

soxfan121

JAG
Lifetime Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2002
23,043
TMZ has obtained a photo of Aaron Hernandez throwing up gang signs often
associated with the Bristol Bloods street gang in Connecticut ... while
dressed head-to-toe in red clothing.
 
Except for those blue jeans. Which makes whoever wrote this at TMZ a moron.
 

fairlee76

Member
SoSH Member
Oct 9, 2005
3,661
jp
crystalline said:
Apparently he decommitted from UConn and went to Florida in part to get away from his childhood crew. Being drafted by the Pats didn't help. On the other hand maybe his friends would have moved to Arizona if he had been drafted by them.
Or he went to Florida because his crew wanted a warm place to visit.
 
We as fans are constantly sold a bill of goods about the athletes we watch.  Anytime I hear about someone "changing their ways" or "embracing the way TEAM X does things" my bullshit radar immediately goes off.
 
And count me among those that differentiate what Hernandez allegedly did to what Stallworth did.  Stallworth fucked up for sure, but hitting a pedestrian who was jaywalking on a highway at 4 AM and staying at the scene until the cops arrived shows a *bit* more regard for his fellow man than shooting someone and dumping them in an industrial park.
 

P'tucket rhymes with...

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2006
11,675
The Coney Island of my mind
sleepyjose03 said:
FWIW (which isnt much) the chatter I'm hearing from home (next door to Bristol) was that he was associated with the Latin Kings.   I figure it's probably at least as accurate as the TMZ reporting (btw - that looks more like a Crips symbol than a Bloods one).
 
Edit:  A bunch of stuff about that TMZ thing make no sense.  He's making the Crips sign (see here:  Crips.   Bloods)  but is wearing red.  Also - not aware of any "Bristol Bloods" gang.  Any gang activity in Bristol would just be an offshoot of Hartford or New Britain gangs.  Doubtful they have an actual moniker. 
Looks a little like an LK insignia on his cap.
 

RhaegarTharen

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 22, 2005
2,769
Wilmington, MA
Anyone know if any of his tattoos were a crowned lion? 
 
And if that was an LK insignia on his cap I doubt he'd be making the Crips signal, instead of the 5 pointed star. 
 
Disclaimer:  Most of my gang knowledge comes from Wikipedia and/or Sons of Anarchy.
 

teddykgb

Member
SoSH Member
Jul 16, 2005
11,300
Chelmsford, MA
And at least in Fall River, the Latin Kings wore yellow, not red.
 
edit: Wikipedia seems to confirm that Kings colors are gold/black, but I never put it past people from my hometown to have screwed up things, even things as simple as gang colors
 

PedroSpecialK

Comes at you like a tornado of hair and the NHL sa
SoSH Member
Dec 12, 2004
27,192
Cambridge, MA
fairlee76 said:
Or he went to Florida because his crew wanted a warm place to visit.
 
We as fans are constantly sold a bill of goods about the athletes we watch.  Anytime I hear about someone "changing their ways" or "embracing the way TEAM X does things" my bullshit radar immediately goes off.
 
And count me among those that differentiate what Hernandez allegedly did to what Stallworth did.  Stallworth fucked up for sure, but hitting a pedestrian who was jaywalking on a highway at 4 AM and staying at the scene until the cops arrived shows a *bit* more regard for his fellow man than shooting someone and dumping them in an industrial park.
Yeah but the jaywalker didn't happen to be talking to people that Stallworth didn't like :colbert:
 

PeaceSignMoose

Member
SoSH Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,745
Boston
teddykgb said:
And at least in Fall River, the Latin Kings wore yellow, not red.
 
edit: Wikipedia seems to confirm that Kings colors are gold/black, but I never put it past people from my hometown to have screwed up things, even things as simple as gang colors
 
You're from the Riv too?  At least you got away.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.