2024 NBA General Offseason Thread

PedroKsBambino

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Was signing Grant a mistake tho? That Dallas team 100% could’ve used a properly deployed Granite in those Finals – on both ends of the court.
They wouldn't have PJ Washington if they had kept Grant, and he probably fits better (including his offense being important in helping them make finals)

On-court, I agree they could have used him in Finals.

I suspect that Grant tired of Luka and wore out his welcome there. He's not good enough to be a distraction in the lockerroom
 

nighthob

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Oh his defense is bad, like really bad...

If Luka could have stayed in front of Tatum or Brown well Anybody the Celtics would have been in trouble with the way the JAYs were bricking 3s and no KP for most of the series
Yeah, it’s not like Tatum or Brown were missing fiercely contested threes. And they pretty much scored at will in the paint despite their erratic distance shooting. Dallas’s defense was pretty mediocre.
 

benhogan

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Was signing Grant a mistake tho? That Dallas team 100% could’ve used a properly deployed Granite in those Finals – on both ends of the court.
Ha. there were all kinds of weird rumors about Grant in the MAV locker room. He started on fire then slumped badly as the season wore on. He ended up with a rather mediocre season.

I liked Grant here, on his rookie deal, but got queasy when there was $20m/yr speculation (plus felt Hauser had/has a higher ceiling).
 

benhogan

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Bennett has only spent about 7M less in tax than Wyc has over the past decade.

They seem to have similar stomachs.
Thanks. I always thought they tried to avoid it, but you're right.

Before they were taking salary/facilitating trades (Kemba) they were in it plenty of times: CP3 year, PG/Russ years, KD/Russ/Ibaka years
 

Justthetippett

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Someone suggested Hurley.
They would have lots of interest in the job, and Pop has a pretty good tree going among league assistants and current and former HCs. That said, I'd expect to see an heir apparent emerge here in the next two years and I would be surprised if they made a splash with Hurley or another external person with no SAS background. I have a feeling Pop will get this on track for a playoff run or two and then move upstairs to the front office.
 

Jimbodandy

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Doesn’t seem that long ago that Harrison Barnes was seriously being talked about as a trade target for the Celtics (in exchange for a FRP?). Is he now a negative asset? Fortunes sure change quickly in the NBA.
He was overrated here then and has tailed off materially since then. Still, he's a 6'8" wing with over 6'11" wingspan, so there's value there despite being basically a neutral asset.

Ha. there were all kinds of weird rumors about Grant in the MAV locker room. He started on fire then slumped badly as the season wore on. He ended up with a rather mediocre season.

I liked Grant here, on his rookie deal, but got queasy when there was $20m/yr speculation (plus felt Hauser had/has a higher ceiling).
Grant at 20MM+ was always going to be overpaid, but his whole approach to playing is so counter to the Dallas locker room that it wasn't a huge surprise that the Luka/Kyrie two-headed monster ran him out of town. Only so long that you can tolerate a lunchpail guy who never shuts up yelling at you for not playing any defense whatsoever. If they couldn't be bothered covering dudes in the finals, imagine having to listen to Grant's shit on the second night of one of the rare B2Bs against Washington on the road.
 

InstaFace

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I’m curious how they time the rebuild against Pop’s age. He’s 75 and seemingly has no heir apparent.
Doesn't he have a kid he can pass it on to, like a feudal lord? I hear that's the American Way.

My assumption has been that Pop leads the Wemby era back to title contention, like for the next 2-3 years, and then passes it on to someone else they can bet on for a long, committed duration, like Hurley or Becky Hammon.

edit: basically what @Justthetippett said above, though I would rate their interest in Hurley more highly than he does - Brad Stevens bought into Wyc because of the continuity of coaching that we'd shown during our ownership, and that's what persuaded him to take the leap. A very similar line of persuasion might work in this case, given that stability and consistency and patience have been San Antonio's calling cards.
 
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InstaFace

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That's fair at the end of the deal. Still think the contract size prevented [OKC] from doing other stuff this summer.

Then again I want them to use their picks in trades at this stage (57-win team) BUT they seem resistant to moving a basket of them. Which has me thinking that Clay Bennett won't have the stomach Wyc has had with the tax.
Let's f'ing hope! Because if he did, they could be a real, real problem for us in June the next few years. It's a bit of a staring contest between Wyc and the OKC, DEN, MIN and (eventually) SAS ownership. Or a game of chicken with their net worths.

Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God annals of dynastic championship owners in the salary-cap era.

Anyway, I expect that Presti has the green light to make impact moves using his assets, but the right deal hasn't come along yet. Which makes IH a good fit for his waiting game. When the time comes, he has the big-contract asset he can include in a trade, he has the picks, and he has some cap room for the next ~24 months if he plays his cards right, which he usually does. They really need an impact center who can fit OKC's style of play, and IH was the best available version of that. (Or another two-way wing / 2-3 swingman to pair with J-Dub, who won't cost a max like Paul George). But when an Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo or Sabonis (say) become available, I expect them to empty the clip.

Frankly, they really needed to be first in line for Porzingis last summer, could have overpaid Washington for the privilege (if they convinced KP of the project - which is what really sold him on Boston, of course), but the whole league was preoccupied with the draft and start of free agency and Brad, thankfully, stole a march on everyone. Or if they just hadn't made the Cason Wallace / Dereck Lively swap, since OKC held his rights originally post-draft - boy wouldn't that be scary, them having Lively on a rookie contract.
 

BigMike

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Let's f'ing hope! Because if he did, they could be a real, real problem for us in June the next few years. It's a bit of a staring contest between Wyc and the OKC, DEN, MIN and (eventually) SAS ownership. Or a game of chicken with their net worths.

Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God annals of dynastic championship owners in the salary-cap era.

Anyway, I expect that Presti has the green light to make impact moves using his assets, but the right deal hasn't come along yet. Which makes IH a good fit for his waiting game. When the time comes, he has the big-contract asset he can include in a trade, he has the picks, and he has some cap room for the next ~24 months if he plays his cards right, which he usually does. They really need an impact center who can fit OKC's style of play, and IH was the best available version of that. (Or another two-way wing / 2-3 swingman to pair with J-Dub, who won't cost a max like Paul George). But when an Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo or Sabonis (say) become available, I expect them to empty the clip.

Frankly, they really needed to be first in line for Porzingis last summer, could have overpaid Washington for the privilege (if they convinced KP of the project - which is what really sold him on Boston, of course), but the whole league was preoccupied with the draft and start of free agency and Brad, thankfully, stole a march on everyone. Or if they just hadn't made the Cason Wallace / Dereck Lively swap, since OKC held his rights originally post-draft - boy wouldn't that be scary, them having Lively on a rookie contract.
OKC never would have had Lively. Dallas traded OKC the pick because they knew OKC was going to take Wallace. Had that not been the case, Dallas doesn't make the trade and drafts lively at #10.

Ultimately I don't think the thunder would have chosen Lively even if Dallas made a trade with Toronto at 13.
 

InstaFace

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Oubre was already a UFA.

Philly renounced their rights on Oubre, because his cap hold cut into their cap space.

The Sixers will make all of their cap space signings official, then sign Oubre with the room exception.
I didn't think that's what renouncing a free agent meant. Otherwise, what's the point of a FA cap hold? And yet, you are nevertheless correct, from Morey himself:

View: https://twitter.com/dmorey/status/1810065892681895992



Really, you can't let this kind of talent just walk out the door:

View: https://twitter.com/HurtsyIvania/status/1807608092684656870



And the last word goes to a Sixers fan...

View: https://twitter.com/PanasonicDX4500/status/1807779236968566901
 

InstaFace

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OKC never would have had Lively. Dallas traded OKC the pick because they knew OKC was going to take Wallace. Had that not been the case, Dallas doesn't make the trade and drafts lively at #10.

Ultimately I don't think the thunder would have chosen Lively even if Dallas made a trade with Toronto at 13.
Oh, it was a Tatum/Fultz situation? Gotcha, I didn't recall.

Plus, Cason Wallace did look pretty good as their third guard, if we're being fair. If you're a 21 mpg rotation player as a rookie, that's pretty promising for being able to become a starter over an Alex Caruso in the next year or two. Looking back in the draft, there's not too many players drafted after Wallace that I'd rather have, if I'm OKC. Maybe Podziemski.
 

DJnVa

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This is top notch NBA offseason content. Just watch til #1.

 

benhogan

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Let's f'ing hope! Because if he did, they could be a real, real problem for us in June the next few years. It's a bit of a staring contest between Wyc and the OKC, DEN, MIN and (eventually) SAS ownership. Or a game of chicken with their net worths.

Easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God annals of dynastic championship owners in the salary-cap era.

Anyway, I expect that Presti has the green light to make impact moves using his assets, but the right deal hasn't come along yet. Which makes IH a good fit for his waiting game. When the time comes, he has the big-contract asset he can include in a trade, he has the picks, and he has some cap room for the next ~24 months if he plays his cards right, which he usually does. They really need an impact center who can fit OKC's style of play, and IH was the best available version of that. (Or another two-way wing / 2-3 swingman to pair with J-Dub, who won't cost a max like Paul George). But when an Anthony Davis or Bam Adebayo or Sabonis (say) become available, I expect them to empty the clip.

Frankly, they really needed to be first in line for Porzingis last summer, could have overpaid Washington for the privilege (if they convinced KP of the project - which is what really sold him on Boston, of course), but the whole league was preoccupied with the draft and start of free agency and Brad, thankfully, stole a march on everyone. Or if they just hadn't made the Cason Wallace / Dereck Lively swap, since OKC held his rights originally post-draft - boy wouldn't that be scary, them having Lively on a rookie contract.
Upon further review (in my best NFL voice), Clay Bennett DOES have the stomach. They have paid the TAX plenty of times over the years

OKC is by far my biggest concern in the WC NBA. Caruso (and IH) will blend in seamlessly, and if they don't mind blowing $$$ on a hustle Center that is their prerogative. I like Brad's approach better with (KornetXQ) and suspect KP will go in the next 12-18 months.

We're just waiting for the Hauser extension verdict now, which should be resolved in the next few days
 

BigMike

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There is a case to be made that each of the three new guys that Golden State brought in, Hield, Slo-mo, and Melton are all better players at this point than Klay.
Yeah we will see if Klay works it Dallas, he might not, but it certainly seems GS is better with him gone
 

gammoseditor

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Reports from the USA select vs team USA scrimmage today are that Cooper Flagg was on fire. Wonder if we see more tanking trades in the near future.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Is Klay washed? I don’t understand this trade for the GSW otherwise
It's funny sometimes that when a former star is considered "washed" he still rates higher than or similar to a popular bench player who is highly regarded. Like, he is "washed" compared to his former self but his true level will likely be better than or at worst similar to someone like Sam Hauser.
 

PedroKsBambino

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It's funny sometimes that when a former star is considered "washed" he still rates higher than or similar to a popular bench player who is highly regarded. Like, he is "washed" compared to his former self but his true level will likely be better than or at worst similar to someone like Sam Hauser.
That's a good comp for a 'downside' version of Klay this year.

The one risk with any declining star, and one we saw at times with Klay in GS last year, is that their ego still feels they can do things their body no longer can. The nice thing about a Hauser is he knows his limitations; Klay will be a more versatile player than Hauser this upcoming year...and if he knows his own new limitations he will also be more valuable. The only way he isn't is if he wants to play like prime Klay, because he is not that guy anymore. So that's the risk.
 

Devizier

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I think the downside with Klay is pretty clear, he’s 33 and has seen a pretty consistent age-related decline over the past two seasons and had a massive injury before that. It’s not like you can just expect him to reproduce his most recent performance, you have to expect continued decline.
 

InstaFace

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A reminder that elite athletes are not professional negotiators, and can and will take things personally and do things like reactive devaluation in response to a lowball opener.

https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/40521069/paul-george-wanted-la-clippers-felt-offer-was-disrespectful

TLDR: Clippers offered Paul George 2 yrs, $60M as an initial offer. He says he would've been willing to take 3 / $150 with a no-trade clause, or the 4 / $212 that he got from the Sixers without a no-trade clause. Neither was forthcoming, so he went with Philly.

I'm not sure if I'm 100% believe him that he would've taken an equivalent Clippers offer (or the 3 / $150 he says he'd have taken). But I'm surprised LAC didn't at least test him on that proposition.
 

BigMike

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Reports from the USA select vs team USA scrimmage today are that Cooper Flagg was on fire. Wonder if we see more tanking trades in the near future.
Seems like the tankers are already well in place.

Jazz
Blazers
Spurs

Nets
Pistons
Wizards

Maybe the Bulls try to tank harder. Just not sure if there is anything left anyone really wants

Nets may tank harder, but that makes sense as they have a few guys like DFS and Cam Johnson, who are not gonna be part of the rebuild and might have some value around the league

Jazz may try to tank harder getting rid of some people

I don't see Spurs trying to tank harder, but there could be a vet moved

Pistons are just bad, maybe they move someone if anyone wants anyone there. In theory they are trying to not be as bad as they have been

Wizards are just bad, They could move Kouzma i guess. Not sure it really matters.
 

Auger34

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Seems like the tankers are already well in place.

Jazz
Blazers
Spurs

Nets
Pistons
Wizards

Maybe the Bulls try to tank harder. Just not sure if there is anything left anyone really wants

Nets may tank harder, but that makes sense as they have a few guys like DFS and Cam Johnson, who are not gonna be part of the rebuild and might have some value around the league

Jazz may try to tank harder getting rid of some people

I don't see Spurs trying to tank harder, but there could be a vet moved

Pistons are just bad, maybe they move someone if anyone wants anyone there. In theory they are trying to not be as bad as they have been

Wizards are just bad, They could move Kouzma i guess. Not sure it really matters.
Spurs can only move into that group of suck if Wemby gets hurt. The 3 East teams are really goddamn bad
 

HomeRunBaker

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Spurs can only move into that group of suck if Wemby gets hurt. The 3 East teams are really goddamn bad
I was to say the Spurs have been down this road before when David Robinson broke his foot and missed all but a handful of games that year which led to Tim Duncan.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Seems like the tankers are already well in place.

Jazz
Blazers
Spurs

Nets
Pistons
Wizards

Maybe the Bulls try to tank harder. Just not sure if there is anything left anyone really wants

Nets may tank harder, but that makes sense as they have a few guys like DFS and Cam Johnson, who are not gonna be part of the rebuild and might have some value around the league

Jazz may try to tank harder getting rid of some people

I don't see Spurs trying to tank harder, but there could be a vet moved

Pistons are just bad, maybe they move someone if anyone wants anyone there. In theory they are trying to not be as bad as they have been

Wizards are just bad, They could move Kouzma i guess. Not sure it really matters.
I don't think DET is trying to tank - even though they should. Unless they think that someone is going to want Tobias Harris at the trade deadline, signing him says to me that they are trying to win some games - at least more games than the 'Zards are going to win.

If UT wanted to really tank, they'd trade Lauri for something reasonable instead of needing to get a king's ransom.

BRK got their pick back so they don't care how many games they are going to win. I doubt DFS and Cam Johnson really impacts winning for them. However, if they are too good, they will definitely get rid of those two.
 

Tony C

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I don't think it's that they want to win so much as they want to surround Cade C. with competent offensive players. Of course, that means winning more than last season, but at the same time I think it's smart that Tobias Harris and Hardaway (picked up from Dallas) will allow Cunningham to develop his game on the offensive side but are not so good that they'll risk being in the playoffs.

Still a lottery team, anyway, though maybe not as low (high?) as they might want.
 

nighthob

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I was to say the Spurs have been down this road before when David Robinson broke his foot and missed all but a handful of games that year which led to Tim Duncan.
It was a back injury, and given that he was never the same after that year, it was real.
 

PedroKsBambino

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DeadlySplitter

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DC-area native per Woj, also recovering from a late-season ACL tear. Rehab this year at home, go from there.
 

nattysez

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That's a good comp for a 'downside' version of Klay this year.

The one risk with any declining star, and one we saw at times with Klay in GS last year, is that their ego still feels they can do things their body no longer can. The nice thing about a Hauser is he knows his limitations; Klay will be a more versatile player than Hauser this upcoming year...and if he knows his own new limitations he will also be more valuable. The only way he isn't is if he wants to play like prime Klay, because he is not that guy anymore. So that's the risk.
In his intro press conference in Dallas, Klay said quite a few things that make it sound like he understands he needs to be a contributing player rather than a star for Dallas to be successful.

https://thesmokingcuban.com/posts/dallas-mavericks-biggest-takeaways-from-klay-thompson-introductory-press-conference
 

HomeRunBaker

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It was a back injury, and given that he was never the same after that year, it was real.
He had the back injury but broke his foot 6 games into the season. He was supposed to be out 6-8 weeks but of course they held him out to tank.
 

nighthob

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And post-back injury David Robinson was gone. The post-injury guy was still a good player, but pre-back injury he was a transcendent talent. The injury was real.
 

BigSoxFan

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And post-back injury David Robinson was gone. The post-injury guy was still a good player, but pre-back injury he was a transcendent talent. The injury was real.
Yup. I was living in SA at the time and had season tickets. He was good after he returned but he lost a lot of the explosiveness that made him such a dynamic talent.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Pretty good article by Sam Quinn (CBS Sports) on the new CBA and max contracts - specifically Ingram but also tangentially other players. One snippet:

Teams are still willing to hand out max rookie extensions on potential, but doing so isn't as risky. Aside from the upside that comes with youth and the inherent tradability that accompanies it, the rookie max, barring Rose Rule escalators that are only accessible to proven stars, only counts for 25% of the salary cap in the first season. That's a far easier pill to swallow than the 30% players in Ingram's age range get or the 35% players with 10 or more years of experience can sign for. Maxes for players like Wagner, Scottie Barnes and Cade Cunningham will probably still be the norm, at least for now. But teams are going to draw lines in the sand on players coming up on their third contract. Nobody's getting 30% of the cap on potential anymore. You're worth it or you aren't.
Ingram is the first high-profile example of this phenomenon. Others will come too. Julius Randle becomes extension-eligible on Aug. 5. The Knicks are asking themselves the same questions that the Pelicans are right now, though in fairness, they have a clearer path to championship contention right now and an owner far more willing to spend, so there's a bit more flexibility there even with OG Anunoby already on a giant contract and big ones looming for Jalen Brunson and Mikal Bridges as well. Even the Knicks can't afford to pay Anunoby, Randle and all four Villanova players forever without incurring the second apron's wrath. One of those players isn't going to be on the team in two years unless the Knicks have hoisted a trophy by then. Randle, by far, is the likeliest casualty. Porter is in that situation in Denver. Towns is in Minnesota. Either Darius Garland or Jarrett Allen will be in Cleveland. Perhaps both. If there's any question about whether or not you're worth a 30% max anymore, you probably aren't. Cleveland is paying Donovan Mitchell and Evan Mobley. They're not paying four max-ish contracts and they might not be willing to pay three.
So what happens to these old-world max players in this brave new one the NBA is adjusting to? Maybe some team with no max players plucks one from one of the teams with three or four, but that doesn't seem especially likely. After all, if the Pistons wanted Brandon Ingram, wouldn't they just trade for him now? The last things teams want to do right now is throw off the financial balance of a team they haven't even built yet. Caution is the name of the game right now, so unless a player in that Ingram/Porter/Towns class is truly somebody's missing piece, they're probably not just getting paid elsewhere.
 

snowmanny

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Why could they only trade Robinson for DeRozan? Why not Rozier or Herro or something?
 

PedroKsBambino

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One thing I suspect is true about the "second apron era": the roster management impact of bad contracts (like Duncan Robinson) has gone up a great deal. There's fewer teams willing to take on, and those who are will view the asset cost to do as being greater.
 

nattysez

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One thing I suspect is true about the "second apron era": the roster management impact of bad contracts (like Duncan Robinson) has gone up a great deal. There's fewer teams willing to take on, and those who are will view the asset cost to do as being greater.
100%. As of today, the only team that has enough cap space to fit Robinson is the Jazz. And I'm sure Danny (1) drives an extremely hard bargain on taking on contracts and (2) wants to keep room open in case they wind up having to re-sign Lauri.