2023 San Francisco 49ers.

[scott bankheadcase]

View: https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1713669746791477644?s=20


“Behind the sticks” was indeed the theme in the 49ers’ locker room. They didn’t execute well enough on early downs and this game played into the wheelhouse of the No. 1 Cleveland defense. Despite all that and Deebo/CMC injures and some notable run defense struggles and the tough penalty vs Gipson, the 49ers still needed just a 41-yard FG to potentially beat a Browns team coming off a bye. Moral of the story: It’s going to take a lot going wrong for the 49ers to lose this season. And a lot went wrong today

The arguments on whether Brock Purdy truly is elite or simply a good QB sorrounded by amazing talent can start today. First off, Cleveland (which has an elite defense) shut down the running game. CMC did not do much of anything while he was in the game (although he ran a good shovel pass in for a TD) and then it was Jordan Mason after the 9ers got the ball on an INT in the Red Zone. Second, Deebo Samuel left the game and that took another weapon. Third, he kept overshooting his receivers (gave me some Jimmy G flashbacks at some point) plus Ayiuk dropped a couple.

And finally, 34 seconds and a TO, why not get closer? It's a road game, a rainy game and the kicker is a rookie. You can try to get a better distance and still have time to kick the FG. Or even better, get close, try once for the end zone and the kick. Sometimes Shanahan overthinks. This one hurts becuase it was winnable despite all that did go wrong.

Oh, and allowing 19 points to a Cleveland offense that had the backup QB and has already lost their all world RB?

Purdy had a bad game (so did Aiyuk) on a rainy day after travelling to almost the east coast on a 1 ET start time against one of the best defenses in the league. I would say Purdy was getting a little overrated after the Dallas game, he's not in the Mahomes/Allen/Herbert category. But, after getting the ball at his own 25 with under 2 minutes to play and only 1 TO, he drove the team into pretty easy field goal range. They should have won the game.

Shanahan had a terrible game in my opinion. But, much like Rex Ryan always had BB's number for some reason, Kyle has never figured out how to really beat a Jim Schwartz defense. He's definitely Kyle's white whale. And it culminated in Kyle being too timid to keep going for more yards and get in better FG range. I'm not sure if he didn't trust Mason not to fumble (though Mason does not have fumbling issues) or what, but I agree that you run a couple more gap plays and wind up with a 34 yarder instead of 41 for your rookie kicker.

All in all, they were a missed FG from another win though, I'm not going to take this loss too hard as long as they show up and put on a much better display on Monday night.

My biggest worry isn't CMC or Deebo, I think SF can win games for a short period of time without them, but if Trent Williams is out for an extended period, the whole offense might fall apart. He's that important to this team. Fingers crossed that it's just a regular ankle sprain and he's back soon.

 

[johnmd20]

Purdy had a bad game (so did Aiyuk) on a rainy day after travelling to almost the east coast on a 1 ET start time against one of the best defenses in the league. I would say Purdy was getting a little overrated after the Dallas game, he's not in the Mahomes/Allen/Herbert category. But, after getting the ball at his own 25 with under 2 minutes to play and only 1 TO, he drove the team into pretty easy field goal range. They should have won the game.

Shanahan had a terrible game in my opinion. But, much like Rex Ryan always had BB's number for some reason, Kyle has never figured out how to really beat a Jim Schwartz defense. He's definitely Kyle's white whale. And it culminated in Kyle being too timid to keep going for more yards and get in better FG range. I'm not sure if he didn't trust Mason not to fumble (though Mason does not have fumbling issues) or what, but I agree that you run a couple more gap plays and wind up with a 34 yarder instead of 41 for your rookie kicker.

All in all, they were a missed FG from another win though, I'm not going to take this loss too hard as long as they show up and put on a much better display on Monday night.

My biggest worry isn't CMC or Deebo, I think SF can win games for a short period of time without them, but if Trent Williams is out for an extended period, the whole offense might fall apart. He's that important to this team. Fingers crossed that it's just a regular ankle sprain and he's back soon.

The Niners lost their 3 best players on offense. That is really tough to overcome and they still almost did.

That game was definitely an any given Sunday example. The refs were atrocious. The first half, they were all SF. Insane calls. And then in the 2nd half, it was all Browns. Truly awful reffing, and extremely inconsistent too. Plus the weather was lousy and SF lost their two best playmakers and their best lineman.

And still, they had an easy FG to win the game.

edit - the flipside, they lost to PJ Walker and Gerald Ford.

 

[coremiller]

The big problem on offense yesterday was that the OL got whipped by Cleveland's front, especially on the interior. Trent held up pretty well against Garrett, but the Cleveland DTs were in the backfield on almost every play. Inexplicably, Shanahan refused to keep extra blockers in and kept calling 5-man protections for most of the second half even though the Niners couldn't block at all. Purdy lacked his usual accuracy because he was throwing everything off his back foot with a guy in his face. And he lacked the typical security blanket of "when in doubt, dump it off to McCaffrey and he'll beat a guy to get 6 yards and keep the offense on schedule".

They need to be able to review those defenseless receiver penalties. It's not like pass interference where there's a judgment call involved; it's an objective standard of contact to the head/neck area. Gipson's hit was completely clean and the blown call (along with about 50 other things that went wrong) cost them the game.

And it culminated in Kyle being too timid to keep going for more yards and get in better FG range. I'm not sure if he didn't trust Mason not to fumble (though Mason does not have fumbling issues) or what, but I agree that you run a couple more gap plays and wind up with a 34 yarder instead of 41 for your rookie kicker.

Totally agree this was a huge error. They had a first down 45 seconds left and a time out. There was plenty of time to try to get 10 yards closer. Instead they ran it once into the middle of the line and then ran the clock down.

 

[johnmd20]

They need to be able to review those defenseless receiver penalties. It's not like pass interference where there's a judgment call involved; it's an objective standard of contact to the head/neck area. Gipson's hit was completely clean and the blown call (along with about 50 other things that went wrong) cost them the game.

The refs have a tendency to call a penalty on a big hit NO MATTER WHAT. Hitting hard in the NFL is not illegal. Hitting a player in the head is illegal, as is hitting helmet to helmet. Gipson hit with his shoulder and chest, to the shoulder and chest.

And the refs threw the flag because they, at this point, are barely watching the games. Why bother watching when you can just get a sense of a hit and throw a flag? It's not like their jobs are on the line, they keep trucking forward, screwing up everything.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Losing your three most important non-QB offensive players certainly explains some things, as does going against perhaps the best defense in the NFL on a rainy day vs a team you kind of expect to beat. I don't know what was up with the defense, though.

Any word on the injury status for the big three?

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Losing your three most important non-QB offensive players certainly explains some things, as does going against perhaps the best defense in the NFL on a rainy day vs a team you kind of expect to beat. I don't know what was up with the defense, though.

Any word on the injury status for the big three?

Only word so far is that initially team thinks Deebo escaped without anything major. Probably a week-to-week thing. No word yet on CMC or Williams.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Only word so far is that initially team thinks Deebo escaped without anything major. Probably a week-to-week thing. No word yet on CMC or Williams.

And as I write that there's now a local reporter saying it's not a major injury for CMC either, but they expect him to miss a couple weeks.

 

[johnmd20]

Losing your three most important non-QB offensive players certainly explains some things, as does going against perhaps the best defense in the NFL on a rainy day vs a team you kind of expect to beat. I don't know what was up with the defense, though.

Any word on the injury status for the big three?

I think the defense got run down. The Browns were running a LOT and SF D was on the field for 6 more minutes than Cleveland's D.

That said, it's not like the D was gashed. The Browns had 300 yards and 19 points. That is basically a quarter for the Dolphins.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

And as I write that there's now a local reporter saying it's not a major injury for CMC either, but they expect him to miss a couple weeks.

A few weeks off might actually be a blessing in disguise for SF.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Shanahan just gave injury updates:

Deebo: Day-to-day escaped major injury
Willaims: Low ankle sprain, day-to-day
CMC: Still getting MRIs, they're not sure.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Shanahan just gave injury updates:

Deebo: Day-to-day escaped major injury
Willaims: Low ankle sprain, day-to-day
CMC: Still getting MRIs, they're not sure.

And now Shanahan says that deebo has a hairline fracture in his shoulder. Out 3 weeks (one of which is a bye, so 2 games) and then hopeful he’ll be back.

CMC practiced, I think he’s playing. Williams didn’t I bet he misses this week.

 

[radsoxfan]

And now Shanahan says that deebo has a hairline fracture in his shoulder. Out 3 weeks (one of which is a bye, so 2 games) and then hopeful he’ll be back.

Weird to have a normal MRI that doesn't catch a hairline fracture (supposedly Deebo already had a "normal" MRI).

Scapular body only possible option I suppose since it's so thin and hard to evaluate on MRI.


Other 2 options:

- MRI misread and it's there in retrospect

- Over call on the CT and there is no fracture (sometimes normal coursing vessels can be prominent and mimic a hairline fracture)

 

[barclay]

As long as its just three weeks for Deebo and Williams and CMC can play (as above) they should be fine

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Purdy in concussion protocol. No player placed in the concussion protocol made it back in time for their next game all season. Line vs Cincy moved from SF -5.5 to SF -3.5 on the news.

 

[Van Everyman]

Maybe this is Trey Lance's big cha-- ... oh. Right.

 

[luckiestman]

My man Sam may get a real chance for once in his life. I hope he makes the most of it.

 

[Mugsy’s Walk-Off Bunt]

Hey Shanny,

We'll give you Mac for two #1s and two #2s. Don't want to miss your window!

 

[Justthetippett]

My man Sam may get a real chance for once in his life. I hope he makes the most of it.

I think we're going to find out Purdy really is pretty important for them.

These concussions that get diagnosed after the game when the player stays in are a little weird no? Are the symptoms just delayed for some reason?

 

[luckiestman]

These concussions that get diagnosed after the game when the player stays in are a little weird no? Are the symptoms just delayed for some reason?

Players probably do not want to come out. There are levels to concussions. Sometimes you’re vomiting and glorious stuff like that, but many boxers get concussed and keep fighting.

 

[luckiestman]

I think we're going to find out Purdy really is pretty important for them.

Let’s let Sam be bad before we write his obit.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Is Shanny and his team can make Purdy look a little like Joe Montana I’d bet he can make Sam look like Tom Brady. I kinda want to see it!

 

[Justthetippett]

Let’s let Sam be bad before we write his obit.

As you wish! I just think Purdy + Shanny = alchemy, and it's going to be difficult to replicate. If Sam gets it done, credit to him.

 

[coremiller]

I think we're going to find out Purdy really is pretty important for them.

These concussions that get diagnosed after the game when the player stays in are a little weird no? Are the symptoms just delayed for some reason?

View: https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1717272188292665424


Purdy's first INT was on the very next play.

 

[E5 Yaz]

My man Sam may get a real chance for once in his life. I hope he makes the most of it.

It's Halloween weekend, so it's time to see ghosts

 

[Justthetippett]

View: https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/1717272188292665424


Purdy's first INT was on the very next play.

Every QB should she'll out a few bucks to Brady to learn how to sneak effectively without getting blasted.

 

[Mystic Merlin]

Every QB should she'll out a few bucks to Brady to learn how to sneak effectively without getting blasted.

Much like pocket awareness, I think there are definitely instincts (timing, which gap/seam to hit at the snap) you can’t teach, but going very low seemed to be his tactic. You’re asking for trouble if you get stopped with your torso and head that high.

 

[Van Everyman]

Every QB should she'll out a few bucks to Brady to learn how to sneak effectively without getting blasted.

Or just drink the Concord Grape flavor:

 

[trekfan55]

Well, I am very nervous for this Sunday's game. The Eagles are a combination of very good and very lucky.

But watching tonight's game, given that SF dominated both Dallas and Seattle makes me feel great on the one hand and lousy that they lost those 3 games in a row (Trent Williams makes a huge difference)

 

[Justthetippett]

Well, I am very nervous for this Sunday's game. The Eagles are a combination of very good and very lucky.

But watching tonight's game, given that SF dominated both Dallas and Seattle makes me feel great on the one hand and lousy that they lost those 3 games in a row (Trent Williams makes a huge difference)

The matchup of the respective lines should be really interesting. I'd also be a bit concerned from the SF point of view about SFs secondary matching up with Smith and Brown. Should be an excellent game.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I feel like the Eagles defense is going to be torn up. Their only hope seems to be successful pressure up the middle by their interior DL. Even then, I expect SF will have their way on offense.

Philly offense vs Niners D should be a draw.

Prediction:

SF 31
Philly 17

 

[trekfan55]

This game started with a weird vibe, to say the least.

San Francisco could do absolutely nothing for 1 quarter of football on offense and the Philly offense was driving down the field (thankfully they only scored FGs). Then something clicks and we see a complete domination for 3 quarters of football.
There were some weak spots, but this team, both on offense and defense looks incredible.
One of my favorite plays, which maybe does not make the highlight reel is Jalen Hurts taking off and 3 defenders waiting for him short of the 1st down marker. No go.

Also, Thomas and Ward are playing exteremly well covering receivers. Several long passes broken up nicely.

At some point we need to give credit to Brock Purdy. He is more than just a cog in the Shanahan machine.

 

[trekfan55]

So at this moment the Niners hold the # 1 seed in the NFC if they win out. Their remainin 4 games are Cardinals, Ravens, Commanders and Rams. Pretty soft schedule on paper with the notable exception of that Monday Night matchup vs the Ravens.
I say on paper because Any Given Sunday applies and they do have 3 losses.

What I liked:
1. It loooked like the Seahawks came to play. But The niners pulled it out.
2. Again, Brock Purdy showing that he is a great QB. It feels like Kurt Warner redux, it took a long time for everyone to realize he was a great QB (and eventually a Hall of Famer). Not saying they are equal, just pointing out that people were still doubting that Kurt Warner was the real deal while he was playing his first season.
3. The Niners beat both Dallas and Philadelphia on both sides of the ball.

Also, it seems the Niners not only beat the Eagles, they maybe broke them? This was an utter domination by Dallas.

All that being said, the game was much closer than the score would tell. The Niners had two turnovers and were forced to punt often in the 1st half. At one point it felt like they were looking past this game (and maybe next week's too?) and that is always a mistake, especially since Pete Carroll usually knows how to coach against them.

Edit to add: Charvarius Ward's injury scares me. He is the ket to the secondary.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Nothing but respect to the Niners, but they didn't break the Eagles. The Cowboys, Eagles and Niners have been the best three teams in the NFC and they've each gone through rough patches. The Eagles rough patch is happening now whereas the Niners and Cowboys have had time to rebound from theirs. I'd add that the Eagles rough patch was entirely foreseeable given the gauntlet they had to run vs Dal, KC, Buf, SF & Dal, but whatever - they still lost the games.

The Niners look like the cream of the NFC crop right now but it was like six weeks ago they had lost games to Cleveland, Minnesota and Cincy and people were wondering if Purdy was a mirage. Things can change quickly...

 

[Justthetippett]

I think the 9ers broke the spell on the Eagles a bit. They were squeaking by and now are looking more fallible. But the cyclical point is right on. Injuries and schedule plays a huge role. It's about how each of these teams (and maybe DET) peaks at the right time leading up to and in the playoffs. When they play their best, the 9ers look a cut above. But they need to capture that at the right moments, which has not been a Kyle Shanahan staple.

 

[rodderick]

The Eagles have been kind of fraudulent all the way, though. Their point differential is +21, worse than that of the Saints and Vikings, they've basically performed at the level of a 7-6 team and managed to win a lot of close games against inferior competition. The talent and experience are there and they could make some noise in the playoffs, but as of now they're distinctly worse than even Dallas, nevermind the 49ers.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

The Eagles have been kind of fraudulent all the way, though. Their point differential is +21, worse than that of the Saints and Vikings, they've basically performed at the level of a 7-6 team and managed to win a lot of close games against inferior competition. The talent and experience are there and they could make some noise in the playoffs, but as of now they're distinctly worse than even Dallas, nevermind the 49ers.

I think this is mostly fair, except I don't necessarily agree with the "inferior competition" part. They won close games against Miami, Buffalo, KC and Dallas. I do agree that they'd rank third out of the big three in the NFC as things currently stand, but they have time to get a little bit healthier and right the ship before the postseason begins.

To bring this back to the Niners, how come I don't see much chatter about Purdy for MVP?

 

[johnmd20]

I think this is mostly fair, except I don't necessarily agree with the "inferior competition" part. They won close games against Miami, Buffalo, KC and Dallas. I do agree that they'd rank third out of the big three in the NFC as things currently stand, but they have time to get a little bit healthier and right the ship before the postseason begins.

To bring this back to the Niners, how come I don't see much chatter about Purdy for MVP?

Purdy has the 2nd best odds in the sportbooks to win MVP, slightly behind Dak but well ahead of Lamar and Hurts. There's plenty of chatter.

 

[trekfan55]

Yesterday the Niners clinched the NFC West. Given the state of the NFC South the lowest possible seed they can have is # 3.
But they hold the tiebreakers over both Dallas and Philadelphia based on head to head matchups
They also hold a tie breaker over Detroit (not going to look for the common opponents but I trust the NFL people)

This means they control their own fate to getting the # 1 seed and a bye.
The matchup coming up vs the Ravens is a tough one, but more than that, they need to get their entire defense healthy. The Cardinals rushed on them almost at will (and the game would have been a lot closer if not for the fact that Bell was ruled down by contact on a fumbled punt -- I liked Bell at the beginning of the season, not so much now).

 

[trekfan55]

With Philadelphia and Dallas losing yesterday the Niners can now afford to lose vs Baltimore and then win vs the Commanders and Rams and still keep the # 1 seed.

I still like them vs Baltimore but I think it's more important to make sure the defense is healthy for the playoffs (which may mean giving Hargrave and Armstead proper time to heal and thus be more vulnerable to the running game like we saw vs Arizona).

 

[Al Zarilla]

With Philadelphia and Dallas losing yesterday the Niners can now afford to lose vs Baltimore and then win vs the Commanders and Rams and still keep the # 1 seed.

I still like them vs Baltimore but I think it's more important to make sure the defense is healthy for the playoffs (which may mean giving Hargrave and Armstead proper time to heal and thus be more vulnerable to the running game like we saw vs Arizona).

And more time off for CMC. The camera caught him coming out of the game for one of his minor injuries on Sunday and he had an index finger up in the air as he was running to the 49ers bench. Probably saying just take me out for one play and then get me back in there. The guy is definitely an overachiever, so you gotta protect him from himself.

 

[trekfan55]

And more time off for CMC. The camera caught him coming out of the game for one of his minor injuries on Sunday and he had an index finger up in the air. Probably saying just take me out for one play and then get me back in there. The guy is definitely an overachiever, but you gotta protect him from himself.

Yeah, and maybe use Jordan Mason more.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

Couldn't agree more on rest over these last three games. They'll have the bye too, but really the goal is simply to get everyone healthy and rested for the divisional round. I'd be very surprised to see anyone but SF in the bowl this year...

 

[Auger34]

If this team is healthy, I think they are head and shoulders above the rest of the NFL. They've played both the Cowboys and Eagles and stomped both of them.

Of course, 49ers and healthy have never been associated with each other in the Shanahan era....

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Niners got run on at will last week. The offense made up for it.

Hargrave and Armstead are still week-to-week, meaning I could see Baltimore putting up numbers against this D next week. It's nice to have the breathing room, but I also don't want to be sweating out a game against the Rams in the last week of the season, they're a tough team. Let's hope Purdy and the offense can carry them one more week.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Wha?

 

[Dogman]

He said the Niners got run on at will last week. AZ ran for 30/234 and 2 TD, so 7.8 YPR. 2 big DL missing time are Hargrave and Armstead and it's pretty clear that Baltimore can run the ball well as they are averaging 5 YPR and 1.8 TD per game on the ground. So, this is a concern this week with the potential for both Hargrave and Armstead out for this game.

The Niners have breathing room in that they can lose to Baltimore but still be in the #1 spot given their wins against Dallas and Philly and their SOS over Detroit. The Rams are playing well enough to currently be in the #7 playoff spot and with their final game against SF, it could be a tough game.

If Purdy and offense can score points (and they average 30/game), they can beat this Baltimore team and make this all academic.

Still confused?

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Armstead officially rules out. Hargrove has a chance, but that’s a blow to the interior DL.

Also, Jennings out with a concussion. He’s their best blocking WR and is important on the run game. Going to be a tough one.

 

[Al Zarilla]

Armstead officially rules out. Hargrove has a chance, but that’s a blow to the interior DL.

Also, Jennings out with a concussion. He’s their best blocking WR and is important on the run game. Going to be a tough one.

Even though they don’t have to have this one, who is the next man up for Armstead? Thanks.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Even though they don’t have to have this one, who is the next man up for Armstead? Thanks.

Kinlaw will start but they’re thin behind him. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Gregory playing there on passing downs.

 

[trekfan55]

Kinlaw will start but they’re thin behind him. Wouldn’t be surprised to see Gregory playing there on passing downs.

Gregory is questionable too

Need to rest everyone and need the bye.

Seems like injuries down the stretch to key players keep happening under Shnahan's regime.