2023 San Francisco 49ers.

[BaseballJones]

The 49ers have been doing what the Patriots were hoping to do, I think - build an elite defense, have solid playmakers on offense (I think BB genuinely thought that guys like Agholor, Jonnu, and Thornton, to name a few, were going to be solid playmakers, though not all-pro players), and have a QB good enough to run the offense.

SF did it with Jimmy G. They tried to shoot the moon with Lance, but obviously that didn't work out, but they're back to it with Purdy. All the other pieces are there.

Not so for NE.

 

[8slim]

The 49ers have been doing what the Patriots were hoping to do, I think - build an elite defense, have solid playmakers on offense (I think BB genuinely thought that guys like Agholor, Jonnu, and Thornton, to name a few, were going to be solid playmakers, though not all-pro players), and have a QB good enough to run the offense.

SF did it with Jimmy G. They tried to shoot the moon with Lance, but obviously that didn't work out, but they're back to it with Purdy. All the other pieces are there.

Not so for NE.

I agree on the D part, but not about the O at all. McCaffrey and Deebo are light years better than anyone on the Pats. I'd freakin' love for Mac to have those two dudes at his disposal. If Bill thought Agholor, Jonnu or Thornton were Deebo-caliber he's off his rocker.

 

[cshea]

The 49ers have been doing what the Patriots were hoping to do, I think - build an elite defense, have solid playmakers on offense (I think BB genuinely thought that guys like Agholor, Jonnu, and Thornton, to name a few, were going to be solid playmakers, though not all-pro players), and have a QB good enough to run the offense.

SF did it with Jimmy G. They tried to shoot the moon with Lance, but obviously that didn't work out, but they're back to it with Purdy. All the other pieces are there.

Not so for NE.

Solid playmakers is the under statement of the century. They might have the best in all of football.

 

[BaseballJones]

I agree on the D part, but not about the O at all. McCaffrey and Deebo are light years better than anyone on the Pats. I'd freakin' love for Mac to have those two dudes at his disposal. If Bill thought Agholor, Jonnu or Thornton were Deebo-caliber he's off his rocker.

We know BB’s assessment of offensive skill position players isn’t as good as his assessment of D players. And for my hypothesis to be true doesn’t require that BB thought that those guys were as good as SF’s guys… just that he thought they’d be pretty decent NFL playmakers.

 

[8slim]

We know BB’s assessment of offensive skill position players isn’t as good as his assessment of D players. And for my hypothesis to be true doesn’t require that BB thought that those guys were as good as SF’s guys… just that he thought they’d be pretty decent NFL playmakers.

We can take this to a Pats thread, but again I disagree that the 9ers were aiming to build an O with "decent" playmakers. Deebo is a phenomenal playmaker, and they went and added McCaffrey who is also phenomenal.

 

[BaseballJones]

Solid playmakers is the under statement of the century. They might have the best in all of football.

The best COLLECTION maybe. But Miami is loaded with Hill, Waddle, and Mostert. Those three are all elite playmakers - Mostert's issue has always been his health, but when he's healthy, he's awesome. (of course that's also true of McCaffrey)

And none of SF's skill guys are the best in the business at their position. But they're all really good. So together, it's an absolutely fantastic group.

 

[BaseballJones]

We can take this to a Pats thread, but again I disagree that the 9ers were aiming to build an O with "decent" playmakers. Deebo is a phenomenal playmaker, and they went and added McCaffrey who is also phenomenal.

I used the word "solid" with SF. I used the word "decent" with NE.

And McCaffrey was a total bonus for SF - they were building their team as I described long before they had a chance to add him.

 

[8slim]

I used the word "solid" with SF. I used the word "decent" with NE.

And McCaffrey was a total bonus for SF - they were building their team as I described long before they had a chance to add him.

They're far more than "solid". I understand the point you're trying to make, but I just fundamentally disagree. I mean, Kittle and Aiyuk are better than anyone on the Pats as well.

 

[BaseballJones]

They're far more than "solid". I understand the point you're trying to make, but I just fundamentally disagree. I mean, Kittle and Aiyuk are better than anyone on the Pats as well.

Well for sure they're better than anyone on the Pats. Nobody is even close to arguing anything remotely to the contrary.

 

[Curt S Loew]

I agree on the D part, but not about the O at all. McCaffrey and Deebo are light years better than anyone on the Pats. I'd freakin' love for Mac to have those two dudes at his disposal. If Bill thought Agholor, Jonnu or Thornton were Deebo-caliber he's off his rocker.

Well, we know he thought N'Keal Harry was better.

 

[trekfan55]

The 49ers have been doing what the Patriots were hoping to do, I think - build an elite defense, have solid playmakers on offense (I think BB genuinely thought that guys like Agholor, Jonnu, and Thornton, to name a few, were going to be solid playmakers, though not all-pro players), and have a QB good enough to run the offense.

SF did it with Jimmy G. They tried to shoot the moon with Lance, but obviously that didn't work out, but they're back to it with Purdy. All the other pieces are there.

Not so for NE.

I think the point is they wanted to get away from Jimmy G and used that draft to do so.

Had Lynch and Shnahan (and that G-d they have left them alone to build and run the personnel) decided to stick with Jimmy G long term then maybe we have Parsons.
BTW i always stated that Jimmy G is a pretty good QB but someone you want to lead the team to a Championship. I think Shnahan knew that with all the parts he was adding, Jimmy G was not the guy at QB.

BTW he certainly got lucky/is very good (well after a few hits it's not luck) with late round picks. Aiyuk was a 1st rounder, but Deebo/Kittle are not and now Bell looks very good.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Agree on this. Also agree on the picks. Mac had a pick six that was a bad throw off a guy's hands right to a defender for a TD in the Eagles game. Purdy throws a bad pass in tight coverage, it gets tipped up in the air, and is caught by a 49er for a big gain. You'd think that stuff evens out over a long period of time, but in a short, 2-game span, that would be 7 fewer points for Philly (and one fewer INT on Mac's stat sheet) if that just fell harmlessly incomplete, and on the flip side, it would be 7 fewer points for SF (they scored on that drive, if I recall) and one more INT on Purdy's stat sheet.

Purdy also threw an absolute perfect ball for a TD to CMC, which he dropped. Which would add another TD and another 25 yards to his stat sheet. Things happen in a game, and dissecting just one side of passes (none of which were nearly as obvious interceptions as it's being made out here. Yes Kittle and Deebo knocked a couple down, they were able to do that because they were right there and it wasn't a bad read throw directly to a LB or something) doesn't tell the whole story either.

He's played 12 career games and throw 17 tds and 4 INTs. His ability to read a defense really well means he stays away from turnovers, which is why he's 8-0 as a regular season starter (he also actually throws the ball away, which is something Jimmy was really bad at).

 

[scott bankheadcase]

I think the point is they wanted to get away from Jimmy G and used that draft to do so.

Had Lynch and Shnahan (and that G-d they have left them alone to build and run the personnel) decided to stick with Jimmy G long term then maybe we have Parsons.
BTW i always stated that Jimmy G is a pretty good QB but someone you want to lead the team to a Championship. I think Shnahan knew that with all the parts he was adding, Jimmy G was not the guy at QB.

BTW he certainly got lucky/is very good (well after a few hits it's not luck) with late round picks. Aiyuk was a 1st rounder, but Deebo/Kittle are not and now Bell looks very good.

Yeah, I mean there's no defending giving up 3 first rounders for Lance at this point, but you can make a awful decision like that when you use your late round picks on:

5th round: Kittle
7th round: Purdy
6th round: Mitchell
2nd round: Deebo
4th round: Buford
5th round: McKivitz
7th round: Jauan Jennings
7th round: Ronnie Bell
2nd round: aaron Banks

All those guys (and this is only the offense, we could do it on D too -- Warner, Greenlaw, Lenoir, Hufnaga... all later round picks) contributed heavily to the offense last night. Even if you remove the 2nd rounders, it's impressive.

 

[Garshaparra]

Rypien is a good comp in some ways but is stylistically dissimilar. Rypien was a big guy (6'4 230) who had a big arm and was a great deep-ball thrower -- in his best year, he led the league in yards/completion. He was also kind of a statue and needed an offense that could give him time to let the deeper routes develop.

OTOH, Purdy is a smallish guy (6'0.5, 212) with very good quickness whose biggest weakness is arm strength. Instead he relies on processing and anticipation to compensate.

Rypien had good weapons, but there was much more to it than that. People often marvel at Joe Gibbs's feat of winning 3 Super Bowls (and making a 4th) in a 10 year span with 3 different QBs, with only 1 true great in Theismann. The key was The Hogs, the OL of all-timers that played together (more or less) for a decade, a feat essentially impossible to replicate now. Russ Grimm, Joe Jacoby, Jeff Bostic and Mark May all played together from '81 to '90, along with TE Don Warren, and as they retired, they were well-supplemented such that the Hogs era lasted 12 years. Besides great passing numbers from guys who never replicated those performances elsewhere, their blocking lead to some gaudy playoff rushing stats (Riggins's 610 yards rushing as a FB in 4 games in '82; Timmy Smith's 204 yards rushing in SB XXII).

There were questions about the Niners' line after losing McGlinchey, but they made the Giants look foolish most of the game.

 

[Shelterdog]

There were questions about the Niners' line after losing McGlinchey, but they made the Giants look foolish most of the game.

Opinion vary a bit on McGlinchey. He's giant and a high draft pick so folks tend to think very highly of him by reputation, but some observers (and in some years PFF) think he's not great. I haven't watched him enough to have a view.

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Ok, this did make me laugh.

View: https://twitter.com/_Zeets/status/1705045136617422944

 

[DeadlySplitter]

Despite Trey Lance...

View: https://twitter.com/49ers/status/1705311001413931499

 

[scott bankheadcase]

Despite Trey Lance...

View: https://twitter.com/49ers/status/1705311001413931499

This was obvious for Shanahan, I’m a little surprised for Lynch.

Not at all because of Lance or anything, a couple posts up I lay out why his drafts are actually great, but because there were some rumors he was going to want to back to the booth in a year or so and hand the GM role over to Adam Peters.

But this is a good move for the franchise.

 

[trekfan55]

Despite Trey Lance...

View: https://twitter.com/49ers/status/1705311001413931499

Becauseof the the way the rest of the team is shaping up and the rest of the players they have acquired and drafted, the Lance pick was not a fireable offense. They certainly ducked one there that could have sent them back.

BTW I am pretty sure that decision to trade 2 Number 1s (I am not counting the one in 2021 because they moved up from 12 to 3) plus had all the blessings of ownership and the fact that Lance didn't work wasn't just a matter of picking the wrong QB. No first round QB from that year is good enough except Lawrence (jury may still be out on Mac Jones?).

 

[Cellar-Door]

I agree on the D part, but not about the O at all. McCaffrey and Deebo are light years better than anyone on the Pats. I'd freakin' love for Mac to have those two dudes at his disposal. If Bill thought Agholor, Jonnu or Thornton were Deebo-caliber he's off his rocker.

Well CMC was the trade when you know you're a SB favorite. Kittle is a bit washed, but Deebo was the draft pick, Aiyuk too.

Though Deebo is interesting, Bill clearly thought he was getting a similar strong YAC guy in Harry... he was wrong, Harry could never do it at the NFL level and never learned to run routes. Deebo has been way more up and down than people sometimes credit (2021 is his only elite production year), but he has really improved as a route runner and his YAC translated right away.

Thornton, Agholor are speed adds, just deep speed merchants. Agholor was coming off a really good year as a field stretcher, and honestly he wasn't bad the McDaniels year, got missed deep a lot by a rookie QB.
Jonnu, again chasing strong YAC guys and missing.

Thornton isn't a 100% miss yet, he could be.

The approach is pretty similar, difference is SF hit on their draft WRs which meant they were in position to trade for the top skill piece.

 

[j-man]

SF is a wonderful team but utill they can beat a mobile qb in a super bowl type game i will have q

they have a 2-year window 23 and 24 after 24 they will have to pay

 

[johnmd20]

SF is a wonderful team but utill they can beat a mobile qb in a super bowl type game i will have q

they have a 2-year window 23 and 24 after 24 they will have to pay

The team is 17-1 in their last 18 games. Their only loss was because the team literally had a QB who couldn't throw the ball.

Granted, they haven't won the SB but very few teams win the SB. In the last 5 years, only Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Matthew Stafford have won. Go back 7 years, and you can add Nick Foles to the list. The Super Bowl winners list isn't long, but it is distinguished.

But right now, SF is the best team in the league, they have won convincingly for 4 straight months. Daniel Jones is mobile. So is Kenny Pickett, in fact. Didn't matter to the Niners. They are on fire right now.

 

[coremiller]

The team is 17-1 in their last 18 games. Their only loss was because the team literally had a QB who couldn't throw the ball.

Granted, they haven't won the SB but very few teams win the SB. In the last 5 years, only Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes, and Matthew Stafford have won. Go back 7 years, and you can add Nick Foles to the list. The Super Bowl winners list isn't long, but it is distinguished.

But right now, SF is the best team in the league, they have won convincingly for 4 straight months. Daniel Jones is mobile. So is Kenny Pickett, in fact. Didn't matter to the Niners. They are on fire right now.

Not only are they 17-1, most of the games haven't been close. Of those 17 wins, only 5 have been one-score games. They are blowing everyone out.

The Eagles were really good last year, were at home, and got off to a hot start, so I don't know if SF wins that game even if Purdy doesn't get hurt, but it really sucks that we didn't get to find out.

 

[trekfan55]

Not only are they 17-1, most of the games haven't been close. Of those 17 wins, only 5 have been one-score games. They are blowing everyone out.

The Eagles were really good last year, were at home, and got off to a hot start, so I don't know if SF wins that game even if Purdy doesn't get hurt, but it really sucks that we didn't get to find out.

Ler’s not forget the non challenge of the 4th down catch. The game goes diffrently if Shanahan throws the flag. Of course Brock Purdy got hurt and the rest is hostory.

 

[trekfan55]

Catching highlights and recaps (did not catch the game due to Jewish Holidays). From what I am reading the defense slipped just a bit and almost let the Cardinals back in the game. There is no way the defense should have allowed a 99 yard drive that ate so much time to end the first half.

The offense was on another level though. Trending on Instagram and other places is how many people thought the Niners lost big time in the CMC trade. Including a guy saying that they were in cap hell and were yet to sign Nick Bosa. Well here we are.

Will watch a replay during the week (not sure when as MLB Playoffs start tomorrow). That showdown vs Dallas looms large next week.

 

[candylandriots]

Catching highlights and recaps (did not catch the game due to Jewish Holidays). From what I am reading the defense slipped just a bit and almost let the Cardinals back in the game. There is no way the defense should have allowed a 99 yard drive that ate so much time to end the first half.

The offense was on another level though. Trending on Instagram and other places is how many people thought the Niners lost big time in the CMC trade. Including a guy saying that they were in cap hell and were yet to sign Nick Bosa. Well here we are.

Will watch a replay during the week (not sure when as MLB Playoffs start tomorrow). That showdown vs Dallas looms large next week.

I wasn’t sure about the McCaffrey trade when it happened, but they’ve already gotten their money’s worth, I think. And with all the supplemental picks (and the value they’ve found in later rounds of the draft) it’s been the trade of the last couple years, in my opinion.

 

[trekfan55]

I wasn’t sure about the McCaffrey trade when it happened, but they’ve already gotten their money’s worth, I think. And with all the supplemental picks (and the value they’ve found in later rounds of the draft) it’s been the trade of the last couple years, in my opinion.

Absolutely, especially since the word on the street was that they did not need him because their system could play any RB. Well, they certainly tried and it did not work as well.
They also got incredibly lucky (this cannot be said enough) on Brock Purdy.

 

[candylandriots]

Absolutely, especially since the word on the street was that they did not need him because their system could play any RB. Well, they certainly tried and it did not work as well.
They also got incredibly lucky (this cannot be said enough) on Brock Purdy.

I keep asking all my Seahawks friends (I’m a contrarian, what can I say? Grew up in Washington and lived in the tri-state longer than anywhere else) when they’re going to admit Purdy isn’t a flash in the pan and still silence. I did get one friend to draft Aiyuk in his fantasy draft in the 5th round, so I guess I’ll consider that progress.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I watched most of the AZ game. They look good, but I will say that were it up to me McCaffrey would be getting way fewer touches than he has been so far. He's on pace for over 415 touches which would be a career high by a lot. And it's not like the games have been close and they really really needed to rely on him.

Anyway, I am very much looking forward to Sunday night vs Dallas!

 

[luckiestman]

Dont know the best thread for this because every NFL fan should watch it

View: https://twitter.com/keener765/status/1709299410918662549?s=46&t=WNUE08imv33kOt1BO6WMzQ

 

[johnmd20]

Yes. That is very very very awesome.

 

[sezwho]

Oh my god

 

[Dogman]

Trey Lance killed me in that. So damn good.

 

[DeadlySplitter]

View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1710378144744554711

View: https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1710379545948455326

 

[scott bankheadcase]

View: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1710378144744554711

View: https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1710379545948455326

Looks like there’s basically no financial obligation at all for SF. No-risk trade:

View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1710387901790339560

 

[coremiller]

That was glorious. This team is pretty darned good. Most underrated aspect of the game was the awesome job the OL did in pass-pro against a scary Dallas front.

Next week is a tricky game on the road against a good defense coming off a bye. Would be a classic letdown game after the emotional high of stomping Dallas. Let's see if they can keep it going.

 

[Shawn O'Leary]

That was glorious. This team is pretty darned good. Most underrated aspect of the game was the awesome job the OL did in pass-pro against a scary Dallas front.

Next week is a tricky game on the road against a good defense coming off a bye. Would be a classic letdown game after the emotional high of stomping Dallas. Let's see if they can keep it going.

I think they will. I've watched nearly every 49er game for nearly a decade now and this is the best of all those teams, including the 2019 team. I loved that team, but you always knew Jimmy G was going to Jimmy G.. be it an ill timed interception, inability to elude pass rush or tossing hospital balls to key players. Purdy is a massive upgrade and CMC is all world; they've got the make up to win it all.

 

[heavyde050]

I think they will. I've watched nearly every 49er game for nearly a decade now and this is the best of all those teams, including the 2019 team. I loved that team, but you always knew Jimmy G was going to Jimmy G.. be it an ill timed interception, inability to elude pass rush or tossing hospital balls to key players. Purdy is a massive upgrade and CMC is all world; they've got the make up to win it all.

This pretty much sums it up for me. I have been a season ticket holder since 2017, so I was there when Jimmy arrived. This is the best 49ers team I have seen since that time. And it cannot be said enough how much better Purdy is for this offense than Jimmy was. It is like watching Kyle's relationship with Matt Ryan in 2016. I am not ready to say Purdy is that level yet, but he is definitely running the show better than any other 49ers QB over the last 6 or so seasons.

 

[rodderick]

This team is a wagon and I continue to not understand what the "any QB in the league could do the same" people are watching. Of course, Purdy isn't as good as the level he's performing at (I mean, he's had higher than peak Mahomes/Manning/Brady EPA/Play at this point, so it's a given), but I see a guy who's consistent with his processing and accuracy every week. He seldom misses layups and he makes more high level throws than given credit for, while being pretty good at navigating the pocket and creating out of structure. Playing really well.

 

[heavyde050]

This team is a wagon and I continue to not understand what the "any QB in the league could do the same" people are watching. Of course, Purdy isn't as good as the level he's performing at (I mean, he's had higher than peak Mahomes/Manning/Brady EPA/Play at this point, so it's a given), but I see a guy who's consistent with his processing and accuracy every week. He seldom misses layups and he makes more high level throws than given credit for, while being pretty good at navigating the pocket and creating out of structure. Playing really well.

Yeah, he most likely is not going to go down as the G.O.A.T., but he definitely is playing like a top 12 QB in the league right now. He throws a nice catchable ball, is accurate, makes decent and quick decisions, and can move a little in the pocket. Teams could do a lot worse than Brock Purdy.

 

[johnmd20]

Yeah, he most likely is not going to go down as the G.O.A.T., but he definitely is playing like a top 12 QB in the league right now. He throws a nice catchable ball, is accurate, makes decent and quick decisions, and can move a little in the pocket. Teams could do a lot worse than Brock Purdy.

Man, just watch any Bryce Young game this year. Or Mac. Or Zach. Or Tannehill. Or Pickett.

Purdy is playing amazing. He's never lost a game he started and finished. It is pretty legit.

 

[trekfan55]

I think this is one of the best 49ers teams I have seen.
The 1984 team that went 15-1 and won the SuperBowl vs Dan Marino and the Dolphins was amazing but that was pre cap era.
The 1994 team was a juggernaut in all areas with Kyle's dad as OC and Pete Carrol as DC to boot.

There's a lot of football to be played but I am getting serously good vibes here.

Their defense is overwhelming teams slowly and their offense is working methodically, pickung defenses, including a very good Dallas D, apart.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

I don’t mean to be the turd in the punch bowl but this talk of best Niner team ever seems very premature. They look good but they’ve played the Steelers, Rams, Giants and Cardinals - not exactly murderers row. Impressive win last night vs a theoretically better team, but we don’t know about Dallas yet.

Again, they’re good. But best SF team in the last couple decades?

 

[JCizzle]

Steve Young in the modern NFL would be a cheat code. That 1994 team was awesome.

 

[Shawn O'Leary]

I don’t mean to be the turd in the punch bowl but this talk of best Niner team ever seems very premature. They look good but they’ve played the Steelers, Rams, Giants and Cardinals - not exactly murderers row. Impressive win last night vs a theoretically better team, but we don’t know about Dallas yet.

Again, they’re good. But best SF team in the last couple decades?

I haven't seen anyone make the claim they are the best in the last couple of decades. Better than any of the niner teams since 2010 or so? Absolutely.

 

[johnmd20]

I don’t mean to be the turd in the punch bowl but this talk of best Niner team ever seems very premature. They look good but they’ve played the Steelers, Rams, Giants and Cardinals - not exactly murderers row. Impressive win last night vs a theoretically better team, but we don’t know about Dallas yet.

Again, they’re good. But best SF team in the last couple decades?

They aren't just winning, tho. They are killing everyone they play, on the field and on the scoreboard. And the team could have scored more against the Giants and Cardinals but they didn't need to. Their +99 differential could be higher if they were trying to run up their scores like Miami does.

Anyway, this team is absolutely legit and the best SF team since 1994. They have game changing superstars all over the field on both sides.

 

[coremiller]

I don’t mean to be the turd in the punch bowl but this talk of best Niner team ever seems very premature. They look good but they’ve played the Steelers, Rams, Giants and Cardinals - not exactly murderers row. Impressive win last night vs a theoretically better team, but we don’t know about Dallas yet.

Again, they’re good. But best SF team in the last couple decades?

It's not just this year though. They are now 13-1 with Purdy and McCaffrey, and the only loss was the NFCCG where Purdy blew out his elbow in the first half. Their average margin of victory in those 13 wins is 16.4.

 

[Oil Can Dan]

So I read today that DVOA has the Niners as the seventh-best team through five weeks since 1981 and immediately thought of this thread. Think I’ll lurk for awhile!

 

[johnmd20]

So I read today that DVOA has the Niners as the seventh-best team through five weeks since 1981 and immediately thought of this thread. Think I’ll lurk for awhile!

It's aight man!

 

[trekfan55]

View: https://twitter.com/LombardiHimself/status/1713669746791477644?s=20

quote
“Behind the sticks” was indeed the theme in the 49ers’ locker room. They didn’t execute well enough on early downs and this game played into the wheelhouse of the No. 1 Cleveland defense. Despite all that and Deebo/CMC injures and some notable run defense struggles and the tough penalty vs Gipson, the 49ers still needed just a 41-yard FG to potentially beat a Browns team coming off a bye. Moral of the story: It’s going to take a lot going wrong for the 49ers to lose this season. And a lot went wrong today
quote

-------------

The arguments on whether Brock Purdy truly is elite or simply a good QB sorrounded by amazing talent can start today. First off, Cleveland (which has an elite defense) shut down the running game. CMC did not do much of anything while he was in the game (although he ran a good shovel pass in for a TD) and then it was Jordan Mason after the 9ers got the ball on an INT in the Red Zone. Second, Deebo Samuel left the game and that took another weapon. Third, he kept overshooting his receivers (gave me some Jimmy G flashbacks at some point) plus Ayiuk dropped a couple.

And finally, 34 seconds and a TO, why not get closer? It's a road game, a rainy game and the kicker is a rookie. You can try to get a better distance and still have time to kick the FG. Or even better, get close, try once for the end zone and the kick. Sometimes Shanahan overthinks. This one hurts becuase it was winnable despite all that did go wrong.

Oh, and allowing 19 points to a Cleveland offense that had the backup QB and has already lost their all world RB?