2023 QB Carousel

Justthetippett

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Aug 9, 2015
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WTF is Asante Samuel bent out of shape over?
He's been salty for a while. One of the guys that BB drove a hard bargain with on contract negotiations and things broke, now he's in the BB is a JAG camp. It's unfortunate. He was a fun, instictive guy to watch and root for, dropped INT in the SB notwithstanding.
 

Cellar-Door

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WTF is Asante Samuel bent out of shape over?
He's still bitter that Bill wouldn't pay him the big deal he thought he deserved. Kind of silly since Bill is the one who pulled him in the 4th round, developed him into a star and got him paid.
 

Eck'sSneakyCheese

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I know I’m not adding much but damn do I love Matthew Judon. Wish he didn’t disappear late in the year but everyone has their faults. Plays big on and off the field. Hope he never goes anywhere.
Guess he’d now be the vet voice on the D? With DMC gone?
 

BigSoxFan

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I know I’m not adding much but damn do I love Matthew Judon. Wish he didn’t disappear late in the year but everyone has their faults. Plays big on and off the field. Hope he never goes anywhere.
Guess he’d now be the vet voice on the D? With DMC gone?
Yeah, he's been such a great signing. It's kind of funny. We all lament over BB's FA signings but there are now multiple guys who were good to very good who Belichick made great. Guys like Gilmore, Harrison, Judon, McCourty (not FA signing but still development success story), etc. You can tell that Judon really appreciates what BB has done for him. 28 sacks in 2 seasons says it all.
 

BaseballJones

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Jason McCourty was a good FA signing. Had a really good first couple of seasons and made some huge plays in the playoffs, then had a rough last season before being let go. Good three year signing that helped them win a Super Bowl.
 

Cellar-Door

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I don't think anyone questions BB's signings on the defensive side.
Honestly nobody should really be questioning Bill's record at all... he's a top 10 GM, he has misses just like everyone else, he's just been doing it longer than anyone else. All of the "he can't draft offense" stuff is idiotic, even going just to skill position.... he drafted the best TE in the history of the league, and another top TE outside the 1st, he has a long history of getting great QB value outside the 1st, deep round WRs. He has a couple busts over 20+ years, but that's great for that long a period and all late in the round picks.

For signings and trades, he's gotten really good value out of re-treads (Moss, Welker, Gordon, Patterson, Hogan, Cooks, Bennett, Blount, Lewis), his record is really really good. People whine a lot, but especially given his draft position and cap situations throughout the time here, he's got a really impressive GM resume (as you'd expect of a 20 year run at the top of the NFL that has never been seen in the modern era).
 

Jinhocho

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Honestly nobody should really be questioning Bill's record at all... he's a top 10 GM, he has misses just like everyone else, he's just been doing it longer than anyone else. All of the "he can't draft offense" stuff is idiotic, even going just to skill position.... he drafted the best TE in the history of the league, and another top TE outside the 1st, he has a long history of getting great QB value outside the 1st, deep round WRs. He has a couple busts over 20+ years, but that's great for that long a period and all late in the round picks.

For signings and trades, he's gotten really good value out of re-treads (Moss, Welker, Gordon, Patterson, Hogan, Cooks, Bennett, Blount, Lewis), his record is really really good. People whine a lot, but especially given his draft position and cap situations throughout the time here, he's got a really impressive GM resume (as you'd expect of a 20 year run at the top of the NFL that has never been seen in the modern era).
You forgot clock killing Corey Dillon...
 

BaseballJones

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Honestly nobody should really be questioning Bill's record at all... he's a top 10 GM, he has misses just like everyone else, he's just been doing it longer than anyone else. All of the "he can't draft offense" stuff is idiotic, even going just to skill position.... he drafted the best TE in the history of the league, and another top TE outside the 1st, he has a long history of getting great QB value outside the 1st, deep round WRs. He has a couple busts over 20+ years, but that's great for that long a period and all late in the round picks.

For signings and trades, he's gotten really good value out of re-treads (Moss, Welker, Gordon, Patterson, Hogan, Cooks, Bennett, Blount, Lewis), his record is really really good. People whine a lot, but especially given his draft position and cap situations throughout the time here, he's got a really impressive GM resume (as you'd expect of a 20 year run at the top of the NFL that has never been seen in the modern era).
Yep. There are many reasons why the Patriots were unbelievable for 20 years. Tom Brady obviously is one of them, but there's many more. Belichick being a great HC and a really good GM are two other reasons for their great success. People who think BB sucks at team building are really missing it.
 

Traut

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WTF is Asante Samuel bent out of shape over?
I have posted this before - Belichick blames the David Tyree catch on Asante Samuel. He says Samuel blew his assignment.

He is college buddies and good friends with my former boss. My former boss would have dinner with him a few times a year. And that’s what Belichick told him.
 

BigSoxFan

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I have posted this before - Belichick blames the David Tyree catch on Asante Samuel. He says Samuel blew his assignment.

He is college buddies and good friends with my former boss. My former boss would have dinner with him a few times a year. And that’s what Belichick told him.
Because he stopped running? He did let up and allowed Tyree to settle in the middle of the field.
 

Traut

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Because he stopped running? He did let up and allowed Tyree to settle in the middle of the field.
Honestly I forget the exact thing Belichick said. It was so long ago. My search skills of this forum aren’t useful. And the posts were from so long ago that they may not be with us.

The conclusion that he faults Samuels is not.
 

Van Everyman

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I have posted this before - Belichick blames the David Tyree catch on Asante Samuel. He says Samuel blew his assignment.

He is college buddies and good friends with my former boss. My former boss would have dinner with him a few times a year. And that’s what Belichick told him.
April fools?
 

tims4wins

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I mean they only won the title his rookie and sophomore years and turned him into the top paid CB on the market when he left as a free agent, fuck them.
 

tims4wins

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I won’t lie: I am intrigued by the idea that Belichick blames him for the Tyree catch.
I have no idea if they were in man or zone, but it looks like Asante was lined up across from Tyree at the snap, and he's nowhere close when the catch happens. He may have quit the play when in the grasp happened.
 

Traut

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April fools?
Nope. I’ve posted this before here. Probably first in 2008 and people here argued that this couldn’t be true.

In 2012, Rodney Harrison says Tyree was Samuels man:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/31/harrison-says-tyree-was-asante-samuels-m

What I know to be true:

1.My boss went to Wesleyan with Belichick;

2. They would go to dinner like 1-2 times a year with a small group of friends. Belichick has a kid or kids at Suffield Academy and/or Trinity College in Hartford at the time and would come down this way frequently;

3. My boss was a Patriots and Sox fan and knew what he was talking about;

4. He came in after one such dinner and said that BB blamed Samuel for that play and that loss. This dinner was probably months after it happened; and

5. I really don’t even like my former boss at all. However, the man wasn’t one to lie.

I can’t find all 22 footage but if you watch this you’ll see Samuel standing around near Tyree at the end of the play.

View: https://youtu.be/OlyBEJ60Duc
 
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BigSoxFan

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There's no way I'm watching that video. I'll just take your word for it.
That play doesn’t really bother me anymore given the subsequent success so I did watch.

When it looks like Eli was in the grasp, sacked, whatever, Samuel lets up. Like everyone else, he probably thought the play was over. Then, when Eli scrambles out of it, Tyree cuts over to the middle of the field, and Samuel was left guarding nobody. Had he stayed with Tyree, which he should have given it was a broken play, it’s almost certainly at least an incompletion. But it still would have been 4th and 5 next play so far from over. Also, Rodney mistimed his jump.

But, getting back to the topic at hand, having lingering bitterness for 15 years towards a coach who basically made you millions is a bad look for Asante. Just shows how fickle sports legacies are. He makes one of those two plays and he’s a Boston sports hero. Now? He’s basically forgotten.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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That play doesn’t really bother me anymore given the subsequent success so I did watch.

When it looks like Eli was in the grasp, sacked, whatever, Samuel lets up. Like everyone else, he probably thought the play was over. Then, when Eli scrambles out of it, Tyree cuts over to the middle of the field, and Samuel was left guarding nobody. Had he stayed with Tyree, which he should have given it was a broken play, it’s almost certainly at least an incompletion. But it still would have been 4th and 5 next play so far from over. Also, Rodney mistimed his jump.

But, getting back to the topic at hand, having lingering bitterness for 15 years towards a coach who basically made you millions is a bad look for Asante. Just shows how fickle sports legacies are. He makes one of those two plays and he’s a Boston sports hero. Now? He’s basically forgotten.
Him complaining about the benefits of nepotism while his son is in the NFL is fun, too.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Nope. I’ve posted this before here. Probably first in 2008 and people here argued that this couldn’t be true.

In 2012, Rodney Harrison says Tyree was Samuels man:

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/31/harrison-says-tyree-was-asante-samuels-m

What I know to be true:

1.My boss went to Wesleyan with Belichick;

2. They would go to dinner like 1-2 times a year with a small group of friends. Belichick has a kid or kids at Suffield Academy and/or Trinity College in Hartford at the time and would come down this way frequently;

3. My boss was a Patriots and Sox fan and knew what he was talking about;

4. He came in after one such dinner and said that BB blamed Samuel for that play and that loss. This dinner was probably months after it happened; and

5. I really don’t even like my former boss at all. However, the man wasn’t one to lie.

I can’t find all 22 footage but if you watch this you’ll see Samuel standing around near Tyree at the end of the play.

View: https://youtu.be/OlyBEJ60Duc
Not to extend this line of conversation too much further, but yes there is a lot of evidence that Asante blew his coverage when Eli left the pocket, although not 100% due to only having the telecast to review. At the moment when the camera is leaving Eli to follow the throw, there are 2 Giants receivers near each other on the sideline towards where Eli is rolling, and one Patriot is doing just fine covering them. As the throw goes down the field, you can see one of the DBs handling the intermediate route 1 on 1 (I can't make out the number but think it is Meriweather looking at the depth chart). Then you see Hobbs running into frame trying to help from apparently covering Plaxico Burress 1 on 1 with Rodney Harrison deep on his side. Finally you see Samuel standing ALONE near the 30 yard line marker, jogging back in to show SOME hustle but knowing he is totally out of the play. James Sanders, the safety on that side, is also out of position but not quite as badly as Samuel. Harrison did well to make it over to Tyree seeing as you'd figure that Burress was the much bigger threat in that situation.
 

Shelterdog

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I'm pretty sure his son is in the NFL solely based on ability and accomplishments.
Sure but he might have had a step up on term of the preparation and coaching he got from his dad--there's some kid out there who was a little faster and athletic than samuel jr but who wasn't taught techniques by an nfl corner and who isn't as good.

One of the tricky things about nepotism in small industries is that the unfair access that the nepo babies have to opportunities and training can make them high level performers. Steve Belichick has had access to one of the top minds in modern football for his entire life; something may have rubbed off on him in a way that actually builds football intelligence, coaching ability, etc.
 

Super Nomario

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Sure but he might have had a step up on term of the preparation and coaching he got from his dad--there's some kid out there who was a little faster and athletic than samuel jr but who wasn't taught techniques by an nfl corner and who isn't as good.

One of the tricky things about nepotism in small industries is that the unfair access that the nepo babies have to opportunities and training can make them high level performers. Steve Belichick has had access to one of the top minds in modern football for his entire life; something may have rubbed off on him in a way that actually builds football intelligence, coaching ability, etc.
Yes. But this is not necessarily the only factor. A few years back I worked on a project that involved going through every team's media guide. The Colts employ A.J. Foyt IV as a scouting assistant ... how many A.J. Foyt's can there be? Is he related to the famous race car driver? Yes. How did he get into football? Oh, he's married to Casey Irsay, Jim's daughter.
 

Shelterdog

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Yes. But this is not necessarily the only factor. A few years back I worked on a project that involved going through every team's media guide. The Colts employ A.J. Foyt IV as a scouting assistant ... how many A.J. Foyt's can there be? Is he related to the famous race car driver? Yes. How did he get into football? Oh, he's married to Casey Irsay, Jim's daughter.
Thousand percent agree--although that is where you have the more insidious problem of nepotism which is that the totally unearned foot in the door (as oppposed to the kyle shanhan/steve belichik mostly unearned foot in the door) does sometime give real experience that have real value. Would you hire AJ Foyt IV or an internet scout for a scouting assistant at this point? Foyt has presumably done the job, knows the ins and outs of one pro system, etc.
 

Van Everyman

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Sure but he might have had a step up on term of the preparation and coaching he got from his dad--there's some kid out there who was a little faster and athletic than samuel jr but who wasn't taught techniques by an nfl corner and who isn't as good.

One of the tricky things about nepotism in small industries is that the unfair access that the nepo babies have to opportunities and training can make them high level performers. Steve Belichick has had access to one of the top minds in modern football for his entire life; something may have rubbed off on him in a way that actually builds football intelligence, coaching ability, etc.
I sort of thought about posting something along these lines as well. But I think the question is, where do you draw the line between nepotism and privilege? The former is defined as "the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives, friends, or associates, especially by giving them jobs" -- left unsaid is whether they are qualified for said position (because, I suppose, it doesn't actually matter).

I think what you're describing is the latter -- ie, "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group." With privilege, we're not saying the person is unqualified, simply that it's likely that the reason they are qualified is because of the advantage they were given. This would describe, for instance, that douche-y group of Princeton kids that played in the NCAA Men's basketball tournament a few weeks ago -- they were good players, but arguably so because of their privilege (ie, their parents paying for all kinds of AAU coaches and club teams).

Unless Samuel's father helped him get drafted, he is more the product of privilege. Stevie B certainly is a product of nepotism, qualified or not.
 

StupendousMan

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I sort of thought about posting something along these lines as well. But I think the question is, where do you draw the line between nepotism and privilege? The former is defined as "the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives, friends, or associates, especially by giving them jobs" -- left unsaid is whether they are qualified for said position (because, I suppose, it doesn't actually matter).

I think what you're describing is the latter -- ie, "a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group." With privilege, we're not saying the person is unqualified, simply that it's likely that the reason they are qualified is because of the advantage they were given. This would describe, for instance, that douche-y group of Princeton kids that played in the NCAA Men's basketball tournament a few weeks ago -- they were good players, but arguably so because of their privilege (ie, their parents paying for all kinds of AAU coaches and club teams).

Unless Samuel's father helped him get drafted, he is more the product of privilege. Stevie B certainly is a product of nepotism, qualified or not.
Exactly how does adding the adjective "douche-y" help you to make your point?

And what evidence do you have that the players on the Princeton team were "douche-y", whatever that means? Rather, what evidence do you have that they were MORE "douche-y" than the players on every other team in the tournament?