2023 PGA Tour

Over Guapo Grande

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Is she maybe hitting her Driver more this week due to length where she would only need 3 Wood or something else on the LPGA course?
I read a recap of her practice round-- she was about 20 yds behind her playing partners, but she said that she was excited about being able to hit driver more than usual this week.
 

cshea

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I read a recap of her practice round-- she was about 20 yds behind her playing partners, but she said that she was excited about being able to hit driver more than usual this week.
That's a good point. Obviously the set up this week is for the men and their distances. So fairway bunkers and hazards may not be in play for her even with a driver. On the LPGA, she's obviously playing courses set up based on the women's distances.
 

cshea

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Ugh she made a bogey on 8 and missed a short birdie putt on 9 that would've put her back on the cut line.

Good for her though, she played awesome.
 

TheGazelle

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That's a good point. Obviously the set up this week is for the men and their distances. So fairway bunkers and hazards may not be in play for her even with a driver. On the LPGA, she's obviously playing courses set up based on the women's distances.
https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/2023-shriners-childrens-open-lexi-thompson-inspiring-run/

On the driving distance point, this article notes that the LPGA only measures 2 holes a week for driving distance stats purposes, and that Lexi hits less than driver there pretty frequently. So there is some real noise in those numbers.
 

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https://golfweek.usatoday.com/lists/2023-shriners-childrens-open-lexi-thompson-inspiring-run/

On the driving distance point, this article notes that the LPGA only measures 2 holes a week for driving distance stats purposes, and that Lexi hits less than driver there pretty frequently. So there is some real noise in those numbers.
Her driver clubhead speed seems to top out around 105 mph. Below is what 105 looks like on Trackman's launch conditions chart. I doubt she wants to go sub-2000 rpm but she's got to be averaging more than 270 when actually hitting her driver.

72573
 

TheGazelle

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Her driver clubhead speed seems to top out around 105 mph. Below is what 105 looks like on Trackman's launch conditions chart. I doubt she wants to go sub-2000 rpm but she's got to be averaging more than 270 when actually hitting her driver.

View attachment 72573
Thanks. That squares with her numbers from last weekend. Apropos of nothing, but I would love to play on a course where you get 50+ yards of roll-out. We've been soaked by rain recently and I have spent the last month hitting drives that plug or get 4 feet of roll.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Thanks. That squares with her numbers from last weekend. Apropos of nothing, but I would love to play on a course where you get 50+ yards of roll-out. We've been soaked by rain recently and I have spent the last month hitting drives that plug or get 4 feet of roll.
I know!! Even my patented "keep it under the wind" swing (e.g. top) has only gotten like 20 yards of roll.
 

TheGazelle

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That would basically be the majors, right? Masters in April, PGA in May, US Open in June, British in July.
 

cshea

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That would basically be the majors, right? Masters in April, PGA in May, US Open in June, British in July.
Yeah, plus a couple others. If I had to guess this is probably what his schedule would look like:

February - Genesis (he's the host; played there last year)
March - The Players
April - Masters
May - PGA Championship
June - US Open
July - The Open
August - Playoffs, if he were to qualify (unlikely unless he plays really well)

Those are all pretty evenly spaced out a month apart.

It's basically what everyone assumed but post accident he's been very coy and guarded about any schedules and even what his goals are. So hearing him say this far out that 1 a month is realistic is a difference.

Apparently the walking his better, he's been out caddying 72 hole tournaments for Charlie but who the hell knows.
 

cshea

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Tiger off at 11:52 with JT. With Joey looping for the Tool Man, Tiger's friend/manager Rob McNamara is on the bag, at least for this week.

Some other notables. Zalatrois is making his first appearance since back surgery. Apparently sporting a broomstick putter. Patrick Cantlay and Xander Schauffele both WD'd a few weeks ago. Probably looking for an appearance fee.
 

cshea

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Tiger is E through 7. Seems to be walking around better than in previous post-crash appearances. Quicker, not as obviously painful and laborious.

GC going with a Hicks, McGinley, Byrum booth. I would be down with that full time if that's what they end up doing post-Zinger.
 

FL4WL3SS

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Tiger is E through 7. Seems to be walking around better than in previous post-crash appearances. Quicker, not as obviously painful and laborious.

GC going with a Hicks, McGinley, Byrum booth. I would be down with that full time if that's what they end up doing post-Zinger.
Curt Byrum is really good at what he does and I can see why he's climbed the ranks. For some reason, however, I don't enjoy him and I have no idea why. I think I still associate him with Korn Ferry and Champions Tour events.
 

cshea

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Curt Byrum is really good at what he does and I can see why he's climbed the ranks. For some reason, however, I don't enjoy him and I have no idea why. I think I still associate him with Korn Ferry and Champions Tour events.
I really like McGinley but I don't know if he'd sign up for a full workload. Although I guess he's already here a lot with all his Live From work.

I'm in the same boat as you with Byrum. Originally didn't care for him but he's grown on me.
 

cshea

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Sounds like Rahm might be going to LIV for around 600 million.
Rahm to LIV is picking up steam. NLU with some thoughts on the rumors:

TL;DR: Rahm has steadfastly denied these rumors in the past. As recently as August he's publicly stated his intention to stay on the PGA Tour.

However, to NLU, it feels different this time around. The rumors have been out there and it's been radio silence from Rahm's camp, no comment or denial. A player reached out to Rahm to ask and Rahm didn't reply. They think it's either some weird negotiation tactic (unclear who or what he would even be negotiating for?) or he's going.

View: https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1730632430082548003?s=20
 

cshea

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In better news, Tiger is -4 through 7 today.

It's kind of dumb that it's 2023 and we can't really watch his round live.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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Fowler hits a drive. Announcer "Hopefully this will stay out of the penalty area". Camera shows the ball dead center of the fairway. GJGE NBC
 

cshea

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Besides the ugly last couple holes yesterday from Tiger he's looked solid.
It looks like he can actually walk now. He limps, probably always will, but he doesn't look absolutely miserable out there and I don't think I've seen him wince.

In retrospect, making the cut at the 2022 Masters in the condition he was might be his greatest achievement.
 

cshea

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Rahm to LIV is picking up steam. NLU with some thoughts on the rumors:

TL;DR: Rahm has steadfastly denied these rumors in the past. As recently as August he's publicly stated his intention to stay on the PGA Tour.

However, to NLU, it feels different this time around. The rumors have been out there and it's been radio silence from Rahm's camp, no comment or denial. A player reached out to Rahm to ask and Rahm didn't reply. They think it's either some weird negotiation tactic (unclear who or what he would even be negotiating for?) or he's going.

View: https://twitter.com/NoLayingUp/status/1730632430082548003?s=20
Listened to the NLU pod today and sounds like this might happen this week. There's no firm, on the record sourcing but there's a lot of breadcrumbs that lead to the conclusion that he's probably going. Rahm is still not commenting about it or even returning calls/texts from players and media.

Also- Apparently the PNC next week will be Tiger's last with Nike.
 

voidfunkt

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Hard to figure out what's going on with the PGA/LIV thing... it sounds like there's a deadline to get something done by Dec 31? The Rahm thing might be true, but it also might coincide with the planned merge of these two tours under a common parent. Professional golf is a total fucking mess right now.
 

cshea

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Nobody knows what is going on. There's the FSG led investment rumors out there which seemed like an end to PIF but then this week Tiger said they were still hoping to get a deal done by December 31.

As for Rahm...I don't know what to make of it. He's always been a guy who talked about the history of the game and how he doesn't play for money. I always thought it was genuine coming from him so jumping to LIV would be a huge surprise to me. A guy that invokes Seve's name all time, turning his back on the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the Ryder Cup just seems out of character based on everything he's said publicly. Maybe he's gamed out the professional golf landscape and things he can cash in short term, then go back at some point?

Could this also be a negotiating ploy by PIF? If this 12/31 deadline is real, leverage a looming deal with Rahm against the Tour?

It feels like if Rahm goes we could get a tidal wave.
 

Senator Donut

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Could this also be a negotiating ploy by PIF? If this 12/31 deadline is real, leverage a looming deal with Rahm against the Tour?

It feels like if Rahm goes we could get a tidal wave.
This is actually kind of brilliant by the PIF. Instead of including a breakup fee in the merger agreement, they cut a deal with Rahm and now they can credibly threaten the tour that they will poach one of their most valuable members if the PGA Tour decides to shop the deal elsewhere.
 

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Nobody knows what is going on. There's the FSG led investment rumors out there which seemed like an end to PIF but then this week Tiger said they were still hoping to get a deal done by December 31.

As for Rahm...I don't know what to make of it. He's always been a guy who talked about the history of the game and how he doesn't play for money. I always thought it was genuine coming from him so jumping to LIV would be a huge surprise to me. A guy that invokes Seve's name all time, turning his back on the PGA Tour, the DP World Tour and the Ryder Cup just seems out of character based on everything he's said publicly. Maybe he's gamed out the professional golf landscape and things he can cash in short term, then go back at some point?

Could this also be a negotiating ploy by PIF? If this 12/31 deadline is real, leverage a looming deal with Rahm against the Tour?

It feels like if Rahm goes we could get a tidal wave.
I remember an interview with him where he talked about how lucky he was, and that getting $200 million wouldn't change his life at all. He said that he could retire tomorrow and live very comfortably for the rest of his life if he wanted to. It sure sounded genuine.

Now maybe Sergio has been blowing in his ear, or maybe some potential deal between the PGA tour and LIV changes the purity enough to cross over the line. But I remember after hearing that interview that I though there was no way he would ever switch.
 

cshea

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I remember an interview with him where he talked about how lucky he was, and that getting $200 million wouldn't change his life at all. He said that he could retire tomorrow and live very comfortably for the rest of his life if he wanted to. It sure sounded genuine.

Now maybe Sergio has been blowing in his ear, or maybe some potential deal between the PGA tour and LIV changes the purity enough to cross over the line. But I remember after hearing that interview that I though there was no way he would ever switch.
Yeah, I don't know what to make of it. in addition to Sergio, Rahm is also tight with the Mickelson's so there's another connection to LIV. In one of the quotes NLU posted above, as recently as this August, Rahm said Mickelson respected his decision to stay with the Tour. Maybe it's the recency but I just can't shake that the guy we saw leading the Euro's at the Ryder Cup is just going to give all that up for a huge pay day.

It's just a strange few months. Things had essentially settled in. Then the PIF/Tour deal comes out of nowhere. Lawsuit dropped. Silence for moths. FSG's rumored bid for investment. Rory leaves the board. LIV going on conducting BAU. Rahm rumors. I'm not sure how it all ties together or what it means but it just fucking sucks as a fan. I'd really like to just turn on the TV and watch the best players in the world play golf and not deal with geopolitical angles, lawsuits, mergers and acquisitions, multiple leagues, etc. The fucking Ryder Cup even turned into a pay for play controversy. Fuck everyone involved.
 

jmm57

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Rahm just got equity in Callaway with his deal this year too.

I wonder what Callaway thinks of LIV?
 

grsharky7

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If nobody watches does this even achieve anything? Does golf in the US have the fanbase to watch it at all hours or the day since so many of these tournaments will be played overseas? I get why the Saudis are doing this, but it seems like a major turnoff to a lot of golf fans who embrace tradition and playing the courses and tournaments that have made up the sport here for so long. I love the majors and I still watch a lot of the regular tour stops, but I'm not that dedicated to the sport that I would get up early or stay up late to watch the LIV stops around the world. Plus you have two weaker tours because of the split in talent, so it's really two inferior products than what we had before.
 

benhogan

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Frankly, I'm surprised the top International players stuck with the PGA Tour for so long.

The US PGA didn't think twice about ruthlessly running roughshod over the Euro PGA with the lure of...
cold hard Johnny
 

cshea

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If nobody watches does this even achieve anything? Does golf in the US have the fanbase to watch it at all hours or the day since so many of these tournaments will be played overseas? I get why the Saudis are doing this, but it seems like a major turnoff to a lot of golf fans who embrace tradition and playing the courses and tournaments that have made up the sport here for so long. I love the majors and I still watch a lot of the regular tour stops, but I'm not that dedicated to the sport that I would get up early or stay up latgdhje to watch the LIV stops around the world. Plus you have two weaker tours because of the split in talent, so it's really two inferior products than what we had before.
I don't think this is really about growing LIV. Nobody watches LIV, nobody buys tickets. This isn't going change that. It didn't when Cam Smith left either. To me, this is a negotiation tactic from PIF. I don't think the PIF's end game is taking over the men's professional golf landscape, I think they want a seat at the PGA Tour table with all the business connections that come with it. The PIF and Tour reached a framework agreement in June with the goal of a formal agreement being negotiated by 12/31/23. Originally there was a no-poach clause in the agreement but they had to drop it due to DOJ scrutiny. Along the way the PGA Tour players expressed outrage at the agreement and the Tour started talking to other equity funds about investment. Now we are less than a month away from this deadline and PIF/LIV poaches the 2nd biggest star from the PGA Tour. That reads to me like a leverage play.

Rahm wins because he gets paid. Maybe he thinks an agreement between the two sides is likely and worst case scenario for him is a year or two on LIV, while he's got all is major exemptions, before he can re-join the tour. I'm bummed but I don't begrudge him.

The fans are the loser. The PGA Tour product is already bad and now they just arguably the 2nd biggest star (excluding Tiger) so it's only going to get worse. I'm a die hard golf fan and I have no interest or desire to seek out and watch LIV and this isn't going to change that. I'm kind of in the "don't give a shit anymore" stage. I'm sick of the boardroom drama, I just want to turn the TV on and watch the best players in the world play golf and it seems like those opportunities are dwindling.
 

cshea

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Here's some of the business side fall out. Wells Fargo out as a tournament sponsor. It's not worth it.

View: https://twitter.com/JoshACarpenter/status/1733185976967606591?s=20


This isn't tied to Rahm specifically but it was easy to see coming. The tournament promised larger purses and the only way to fund it was to ask for more money from the sponsors. TV ratings remain flat so the sponsors don't get the return on the investment. Add in more defections and it's not hard to see the sponsors jump ship.
 

Eagle3

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Rahm wins because he gets paid. Maybe he thinks an agreement between the two sides is likely and worst case scenario for him is a year or two on LIV, while he's got all is major exemptions, before he can re-join the tour. I'm bummed but I don't begrudge him.
My guess is he is hoping and expecting an agreement will allow him to play events on both tours starting immediately. In which case he makes 300 mill in exchange for playing what to him will be a handful of exhibitions every year and still play most if not all of the PGA events that are important to him. If that happens he is a massive winner, along with the other LIV guys who cashed in.
 

Vegas Sox Fan

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Let's be honest. Outside of Majors and some of the signature events, the PGA tour calendar is too full leading to some pretty boring events. What would be the harm in scheduling these alternate events with a different and slightly interesting format instead of the John Deere Classic for example?