2023 Draft Fits

67YAZ

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Tracking potential McCourty replacements—Christopher Smith and Brandon Joseph ran 4.62s, not ideal.

Sydney Brown though…
Sydney Brown…had a good day.

Some of the knocks on him have been recovery speed, change of direction, backpedal fluidity…general top end athleticism stuff. He showed a lot there today, but teams will run him through man to man and reaction drills in workouts to see how it translates. Why didn’t those traits show up consistently in games? That’s what teams want to find out.

His size is what it is - he’s not going to smother guys with length or reach as far as the tall WRs. But he’s 211 and the Brown brothers used to fight MMA, still train MMA in the off-season. He plays like it, too, with violence and a lot of power.

What I love about the kid is that he’s a leader. Team captain this year (Belichick alert) and organizer of the defense on the field. He’s an extension of the coaches out there.

Brown has also been a really effective gunner for Illinois. He can bring immediate value there while moving up the depth chart.

 
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ehaz

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Rough day so far for Addison. Was expecting better than 4.55s at that size but we don’t have official times.
 

SMU_Sox

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Rough day so far for Addison. Was expecting better than 4.55s at that size but we don’t have official times.
You might have jumped the gun. His official time might be a 4.44-4.46
 

Cellar-Door

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Rough day so far for Addison. Was expecting better than 4.55s at that size but we don’t have official times.
4.49u on his 2nd run is OK.

Guy who is in trouble is Kayshon Boutte came in with all kinds of red flags on route running, work ethic etc. Said he would run 4.3... Put up (unofficial) a 4.50 and a 4.67.

Big winner among WR is Bryce Ford-Wheaton
Ran a 4.38u with great splits at 6`4" 221.. Crushed jumps too currently at #2 all Time for WR RAS behind Megatron
View: https://twitter.com/MathBomb/status/1632090473157341185?t=fF4N_0ngJCH01NzFZylwog&s=19
 

ehaz

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I think Josh Downs is also a big winner. 40 time was a solid 4.48, but his 10-yard split is I think the best we've seen today and faster than Hyatt, Flowers, Ford-Wheaton, etc. His explosion grade was elite too.
 

SMU_Sox

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j44thor

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Has there been a bigger discrepancy between the WRs and CBs than this year? Multiple 6'+ CBs testing higher than 5' nothing wrs. And AR broke the combine 6'4 244 with a 4.43 and 40 inch vertical is disgusting.
 

Cellar-Door

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lol, just for fun I went to RAS where you can see what a guy's RAS would be if he played a different position.

Richardson's WORST position is Offensive Tackle (weight is a 0)... where he would be a 9.04. he'd be one of the top 5 ever at like 6 positions.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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Zay ran a 4.42. Everyone is gushing about him, including Steve Smith today. Wonder how much helium he has. Feels like a first rounder now.
 

SMU_Sox

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This is a terrific class for the Pats and tight ends, corners, edges, and slot receivers. My top WR is JSN. And yes @P'tucket rhymes with... I would consider taking him at 14. I would also consider the tight ends.

I think Darnell Washington is going to be high up their list.

I think with JSN you have a dynamic slot receiver and I can't see him busting unless he gets hurt. His route running, hands, and RAC are just too good. When I posted his clips on twitter you could see his shuttle and 3-cone. He stops and cuts on a dime. It is incredible. I don't care that he is a slot. He is capable of putting up Welker numbers. He is that good.
 

Cellar-Door

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Man if Zack Kuntz could block....
ran a 4.55 at 6'7+" 255
4.12 shuttle, 6.87 3 cone
40 in vert., 10'8" long jump
currently the best TE all-time in RAS, though Bench could knock that down.
 

phineas gage

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Jan 2, 2009
45
As a lurker who does not necessarily keep current with every thread, I apologize if this has been discussed earlier, but Stetson Bennett seems to have graded out pretty well at the combine and I was curious as to the thoughts here on his possible potential. Is he a classic example of a high-achieving quarterback who does not have the necessary skills to succeed at the pro level (like a Tim Tebow), or does he have some possibility for success in the NFL as a decent starter or back-up? It seems like there is nothing more difficult than projecting QBs from college to pro. If an algorithm was available that could identify the next Tom Brady, it would be worth a trillion dollars.
 

67YAZ

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Not sure how I’m gonna handle announcers saying “Kuntz is a huge target, especially in the red zone” or “Kuntz was wide open.”
 

DJnVa

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Dec 16, 2010
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Not sure how I’m gonna handle announcers saying “Kuntz is a huge target, especially in the red zone” or “Kuntz was wide open.”
Imagine if he's lit up by a DB with the last name of Cox...
 

Bowser

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Sep 27, 2019
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All this RAS talk got me wondering how many current Patriots had a RAS above 9.00. Answer = 8:
  • C Strange 9.95
  • B Schooler 9.78
  • C Davis 9.78
  • D Parker 9.75
  • S Wade 9.59
  • K Dugger 9.54
  • P Strong 9.34
  • J Peppers 9.14
And here's the bottom five:
  • T Brown 3.69
  • M Bryant 2.59
  • A Phillips 2.54
  • D Godchaux 2.52
  • M Perry 1.88
 

SMU_Sox

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yeah what seemed like a reasonable dream that he was gonna be there at 46 seems to be sailing.
Hey you never know! Although apparently he is interviewing extremely well and he has an outstanding work ethic. He also is known for being a student of the game and for his preparation. He talked a lot about his plans of attack vs Anderson and Ojulari for example. He’s a vocal leader too. Combine that with his tape and testing and he might go top 20. So while we don’t know for sure it sure seems like he’s going before pick 46.
 

Dr. Gonzo

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At this point, it’s Wright or JSN for me. Either one being there is fine by me. If they are both available, I have no idea. Feels like OT is lacking depth this year and maybe slot WR can be found later?
 

SMU_Sox

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He can play LT yeah. But he honestly didn’t really have success until this year at RT. He played LT in 2021 though. Personally I love him next to Onwenu. Great combo. Both dudes are people movers with a ton of power.
 

j44thor

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If they don't go WR in the first I think Mingo could be value in the third. Faster than expected 4.46 40 at 6'2 220 and 22 reps. As a power slot he could be useful as a chain mover and in the run game. Seen him comped to Anquan Boldin.
 

Shelterdog

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Might of missed it but Blake Freeland’s athleticism is superb. He needs to gain weight but what do we think? He had a 37” vertical! Team captain, 4-year starter.

View: https://twitter.com/mathbomb/status/1632539605793636352?s=46&t=L8mPP6If8FmtTJUrlNrbEQ
Also hasn't been an offensive lineman very long (I think he started playing oline in college). I guess he has some technique issues that pop up in pass protection (he keep his feet to close together). I think there's a reasonable chance he's their pick at 46 if he's availlable and they don't got OL with the first pick.
 

SMU_Sox

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I liked Freeland when I wrote this up in January or December.

Pass Blocking: He has a lot of technique issues probably because he just started playing OL. First off - he can overset or overreact to the inside. His hips can fly open too early. His footwork - he can have false steps. He doesn’t latch on or grip like you want him to or at a rate you want him to. He gives up too many inside counters. He has above average recovery. He’s athletic. He has nice length. I didn’t see guys bull him with any success. He resets his hands quickly and he has more than just one punch. Although his punch timing can be off and he can lunge there too. He doesn’t take guys to the ground or snatch them. He does a good job redirecting guys when beat because of his athleticism. He mirrors guys well, usually but, double moves can get his goat. A lot of his wins are not necessarily with great technique but size, length, anchor, and athleticism. Doesn’t finish guys in pass pro like you want. Doesn’t have a lot of power or pop in his hands. He doesn’t have snatch moves or wrist locks or developed pass rush counters.


Run Blocking: He is inconsistent because he has leverage issues, he lunges, he doesn’t sustain blocks, and he doesn’t have great natural strength… his blocking in space and quick lateral movement can be hit or miss. He did really well vs ND with outside zone combos and duos. He has the skills where if he can keep his technique steady he should be good in any blocking scheme not just outside zone. He has to clean up the lunging and ducking. If he does that he is just going to end up on the ground. His height and perhaps some hip stiffness prevents him from sinking and getting the right leverage in run blocks. He misses his hand landing spots a lot but is quick to reset.


Overall: He’s a scheme versatile OT. He could be a lot like an incomplete version of Nate Soldier but he has a ton of technique work to do which I wrote above. The athleticism, size, and length are there but he needs to be able to put it together consistently. I worry about his hands and lack of latching on - that’s a major issue. He has to improve his grip and hands. He’s a 6.49-6.99. I think if he fully hit and developed he could be a quality starter but his floor is a swing OT. Best fit on an OZ team but scheme versatile. 6.75? Let’s see what he tests. I think it will be good.


And yeah he tested really well.

He is probably never going to be a good run blocker. Neither was Solder. He might end up being a very good pass protector. He needs more time to develop. He was a QB then TE convert.
 

Shelterdog

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1. Nic Jones CB Ball State (apparently showed well at shrine game)
2. Jake Moody K Michigan (probably the best kicker in college this year?)
3. Brian Branch Alabama -- slow enough to be someone they might get in round two or three--replacing Trey Dean III S Florida who'd played well at the senior bowl but ran a 4.75 which won't cut it as a deep safety))
4. Mo Diabete LB Utah (his name makes me want to make a wilfred brimley joke)
5 Isiah Moore LB NC State
6. Eric Scott Jr CB Southern Miss (6'2" 192 per shrine bowl coverage Pats coaches liked his press coverage)
7. Jack Colletto FB Oregon State (sort of a H-back/TE type)
8. Jaxon Smith_Njigba WR OS (replacign shorter)
9. Malik Heath WR Mississippi (fast 3 cone) replacing Jadakis Bonds WR Flordia, awesome name
10 Zay Flowers WR BC (why not)
11 Dalton Wagner OL Arkansas. Very tall and actually fairly nimble. They seem to like that.
12 Ricky Stromberg OL Arkansas IOL
13 Brenton Cox Jr Edge Jr Florida (headcase, BB spent time with him)
13 Noah Swell LB Oregon (replacing Truman Jones Edge Harvard)
14 Tyrus Wheat LB Miss State
15 Myles Brook CB Louisiana Tech
16 Jordan Howden S Minnesota
17 Michael Turk P Oklahoma
18 AF Finley S Ole Miss
19 Mekhi Garner CB LSU
20 Kei'Tri Clark CB Louisville
21 Malaesala Alumavae-Laulu G Oregon (replaces Luke Haggard OL Indiana); big guy who started a lot for oregon
22 Taon Vincent DT Ohio State
23 Jordan Addison WR USC
24Payne Durham TE Purdue (FORMER LAX!) (replacing Blu Kelly stanford)
25 Elijah Higgins WR Stanford
26 Michael Wilson WR Stanford (potential gunner! red flag for health problems)(a little slow to be a gunner at the combine)
27 Alex Forsyth Oregon C (replaces Blake Freeland)
28 Blake Freeland (replacing Matthew Bergeron)
29 Andrew Voorhes OL USC (tore his ACL at the combine so prefect for like a sixth round pick; replacing Olusegun Oluwatimi C Michigan. )
30Tyler Steen OT Alabama

UDFA Prospects list
Ryan Walk C Oregon
TJ Bass OG Oregon (might be draftable)
Trey Dean Safety Florida
Hunter Luepke FB/RE North Dakota State FUllback, former baseball player/track/state wrestling champ, possible ST dude
*David Durden, West Florida, WR. Putting an asterisk on this one because he's my designated "sixth round draft pick to play speical teams" guy of the year. Fast physical WR who was a baseball player and drafted by the sox years ago.
Shaka Heyward LB Duke ILB type. Might be draftable had a suprisingly fast 40 (4.53) at the combine)


[/QUOTE]
 
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Cellar-Door

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@SMU_Sox has me rethinking my Athletic subscription with its latest mock— Pats trading 14, 76, and a future pick to get to 10 and drafting Skoronski.
Brugler is generally good, but yeah. He basically explains it by pointing to how Bellichick can go off the board, and hinting that he's drafted small tackles before.... but those were SHORT tackles with longer arms. I don't buy that Bill would draft a tackle with short arms, and especially not with the idea that he could push inside, because he fits the LG profile for NE more than RG, and what are you doing with Strange in that situation.
 

heavyde050

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Brugler is generally good, but yeah. He basically explains it by pointing to how Bellichick can go off the board, and hinting that he's drafted small tackles before.... but those were SHORT tackles with longer arms. I don't buy that Bill would draft a tackle with short arms, and especially not with the idea that he could push inside, because he fits the LG profile for NE more than RG, and what are you doing with Strange in that situation.
Thank you for explaining it better than I could. I just didn't think he really was the second coming of Matt Light like the write-up said. I think Light, though not super tall, had 33.5 inch arms.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/scarnecchia-offensive-tackle-arm-length-expletive-way-overrated
 

gammoseditor

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PFF also updated their big board after the combine. Dawand Jones has now moved all the way up to 31. Darnell Wright and Darnell Washington are 69 and 70. Very strange. Wright and Washington both had excellent combines.
 

Average Game James

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Thank you for explaining it better than I could. I just didn't think he really was the second coming of Matt Light like the write-up said. I think Light, though not super tall, had 33.5 inch arms.
https://www.nbcsports.com/boston/patriots/scarnecchia-offensive-tackle-arm-length-expletive-way-overrated
I was scratching my head on that one too. The Pats have absolutely gone a little outside the standard mold for tackles, but if my understanding is correct, it would be pretty much unprecedented if Skoronski ends up a high level tackle with 32.25" arms. Light and Vollmer were both at least >33", bigger overall (RAS composite size has Vollmer at "Good" and Light at "Okay" vs. Skoronski at "Poor"), and also taken in the mid/late second round. I wouldn't be that upset if the Pats took Skoronski at 14 - it seems like his floor is starting caliber OG - but trading up to 10 and taking him over Paris Johnson seems a little silly to me when you'd be banking on him being a complete modern outlier to be worthy of a top 10 pick.
 

SMU_Sox

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@SMU_Sox has me rethinking my Athletic subscription with its latest mock— Pats trading 14, 76, and a future pick to get to 10 and drafting Skoronski.
I would like Skor as a prospect more but when his length issues are evident on tape and that will be minimized as an issue inside it seems silly to keep pushing him as an OT. And that’s unfortunately what is happening. He doesn’t get first contact way too often. Guys can get under him and start to move him. I think he could be a pro bowl caliber guard. I’m not sure he could be more than an average tackle and best and I sincerely have my doubts. Length is overrated but it’s still important. Even Scar, who put length into perspective very well, said you really don’t want to get much lower than 33 inches. Unfortunately he’s almost an inch smaller at 32.25.

Dawand didn’t test well and yet got moved up vs Wright testing unexpectedly well is frustrating. The big tactician builds can work and even work well but Dawand has even worse foot speed and recovery vs either Trent or Orlando Brown. It’s like their own guidebook says - you better have a mobile QB with him because when he’s beat he doesn’t recover. We’re not in that position. BB doesn’t go for unathletic guys in the draft anyway. He will sign or trade for them but only after they have shown they can play in the pros. I’d take Wright over him any day of the week.
 

SMU_Sox

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I agree with you @Average Game James - if he could fail into an LG spot that would be fine. If they think Strange is their next center maybe that works? Now you are projecting two players though at different positions. Pass on Skor.
 

ehaz

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PFF also updated their big board after the combine. Dawand Jones has now moved all the way up to 31. Darnell Wright and Darnell Washington are 69 and 70. Very strange. Wright and Washington both had excellent combines.
different position but I also noticed that JSN moved all the way from #20 to #11.
 

Devizier

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Is there any chance the Patriots go for a QB? If one of the guys up top slide, or one of the later round prospects?
 

j44thor

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I agree with you @Average Game James - if he could fail into an LG spot that would be fine. If they think Strange is their next center maybe that works? Now you are projecting two players though at different positions. Pass on Skor.
Curious if you scouted Jon Gaines who is listed as a G but has played some T and even C. Had a really strong combine posting a 4.45 20 yard shuttle which is considered a bell weather mark for success at OL. Perhaps he could play LT or kick inside to C. Could be interesting pick in 3rd or later. Also considered highly intelligent player.
 

BaseballJones

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If a guy is really, really good, having arms that are one inch shorter than "normal" just isn't really a concern. That said, I don't know how good the guy actually is.
 

Cellar-Door

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If a guy is really, really good, having arms that are one inch shorter than "normal" just isn't really a concern. That said, I don't know how good the guy actually is.
Skoronski is more like 2+ inches below normal. 33 is generally seen as a floor (33 in arms on guys that size are short), 34 is more like normal and is what teams look for. So it's kind of like 40 times for CBs... a 4.5 is below average but could be okay, a guy runs a 4.65+..... he's a safety.
 
Aug 9, 2015
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Is there any chance the Patriots go for a QB? If one of the guys up top slide, or one of the later round prospects?
With two young guys I think the third QB would be a vet. Drafting QBs is generally good business but I don't think you can overload on guys that need a year or two of seasoning.

I would sell the farm for Richardson, however, if he's available at 7. Maybe Mac + 14, + late rounder.
 

BaseballJones

ivanvamp
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Skoronski is more like 2+ inches below normal. 33 is generally seen as a floor (33 in arms on guys that size are short), 34 is more like normal and is what teams look for. So it's kind of like 40 times for CBs... a 4.5 is below average but could be okay, a guy runs a 4.65+..... he's a safety.
You guys know more about this stuff than I do. I guess my question is: Is the guy actually good? When facing really good competition, how does he do? If he handles NFL-caliber players really well, then that means...he probably can play that position in the NFL.

Measurables definitely have some value, but at the end of the day, it's about whether the guy can play or not. Old, tired example, but Jerry Rice just wasn't that fast in terms of his measurable 40 time. But man obviously he could PLAY. If we look at Skoronski and see that he manhandles NFL-caliber competition, then I just wouldn't worry about his arm length.

I say all this having NO idea if he actually played well against NFL caliber competition.