2023 Bullpen

[chawson]

Sure, but that only work if the opener sets down the order in a row.

Pivetta started the third, and faced 9-1-2, to start.

I dunno, feels like it all likely evens out. Starting your best lefty reliever means he isn’t available late in the game, if needed, and you lose that. But you have it earlier in.

Meh.

In this case that still limits Pivetta’s exposure to Noda, Rooker, Bleday and Brown, who combined have a 134 wRC+ vs. RHP away from Oakland (an extreme pitchers park) this year. Instead, those guys got an extra helping of Bernardino and Jacques, which seems significant when their combined wRC+ drops to 88 on the road vs. LHP.

I think every team will be different. Here’s the current Rays lineup, with each player’s career wOBA vs. Pivetta (and their ‘23 wOBA vs. RHP)

Diaz .423 wOBA (.384)
Franco .313 (.339)
Raley 1 for 2 with a double (.410 wOBA vs. RHP in ‘23)
Arozarena (.386)
B. Lowe .441 (.325)
J. Lowe 0 for 3 (.356)
Paredes .646 (.382)
Siri 0 for 2 (.335)
Bethancourt 0 for 7 (.274)

Now if you’re forced to throw Pivetta in this case, it kind of sucks to be you. But it makes a lot of sense to throw Bernardino through J. Lowe or Paredes and bring in Pivetta at batter 7 or 8.

Maybe they counter with Harold Ramirez (.298 wOBA vs. Pivetta, .300 wOBA vs. RHP), and that’s okay.

 

[Red(s)HawksFan]

If they did stock up on LHB, you could always follow up Bernardino with another LHP too instead of going straight to Pivetta.

Exactly. An opener presents a dilemma for the opposing manager in how he sets his lineup. He can set it based on the guy starting the game or he can set it based on who he anticipates will be pitching the biggest chunk of the game. And given that the Sox had three other LHP in the pen behind Bernardino, automatically assuming it will be Pivetta (or any other RHP) is a risk.

 

[YTF]

Another factor may be that the second time through the order most guys are now facing a different pitcher. There is nothing that they've seen in their 1st AB that might help them in their 2nd AB.

 

[JM3]

Schreiber is getting closer to returning.

View: https://twitter.com/BeyondtheMnstr/status/1677644346873589761


View: https://twitter.com/ByAndrewParker/status/1677513911300440066

 

[8slim]

But I think this is more the classic Moneyball way of thinking. It's all about getting 27 outs, and they're all equally important. But...the fact that one of your best pitchers closes and someone far more fungible opens would go against this.
I really don't know.

I disagree with that concept that all 27 outs are the same. I mean, theoretically they are. But to me, getting the, say, 18th out with 2 down and runners on 2nd and 3rd is more important than getting the 18th out with no one on. I don’t know how to square “high leverage” with “27 outs are equal”.

And I don’t think the burden placed on an opposing manager to set a lineup to deal with an opener is all that great. Most teams only have a few lineup spots that are hand-dependent. And we’re at a point in baseball where the sheer volume of pitchers used makes that less and less relevant in terms of game-start lineup construction.

It’s a chess match for 9 innings and I don’t see evidence that there’s a meaningful advantage for the pitching side when it comes to opener’s handedness.

Honestly, it may be psychological with Pivetta at this point. If he believes he’s better when throwing innings 3-7 than that’s fine. I continue to believe that people undervalue player comfort in consistent roles.

 

[Niastri]

Pivetta went through a hot streak last season where for 6 starts, he was prime Pedro Martinez. (I started a thread about it and promptly turned Pivetta into a pumpkin...)

It's entirely possible he's just starting one of those hot streaks and it doesn't matter when he pitches.

If putting him in the "bulk" role had something to do with it, then awesome. It's probably just random variance, though.

 

[soxhop411]

View: https://twitter.com/chriscotillo/status/1677717133604581376?s=46
Red Sox activated Joely Rodríguez and optioned Justin Garza to AAA.

 

[Philip Jeff Frye]

Pivetta went through a hot streak last season where for 6 starts, he was prime Pedro Martinez. (I started a thread about it and promptly turned Pivetta into a pumpkin...)

It's entirely possible he's just starting one of those hot streaks and it doesn't matter when he pitches.

If putting him in the "bulk" role had something to do with it, then awesome. It's probably just random variance, though.

Oh please, sir! This calumny cannot be allowed to stand! Any suggestion that Pivetta has not achieved a new and permanently higher plateau of performance due to our team's clever stratagem of using him as a bulk reliever very clearly suggests that you are a Debbie Downer of the first order. For shame, Niastri, for shame!

 

[JM3]

Oh please, sir! This calumny cannot be allowed to stand! Any suggestion that Pivetta has not achieved a new and permanently higher plateau of performance due to our team's clever stratagem of using him as a bulk reliever very clearly suggests that you are a Debbie Downer of the first order. For shame, Niastri, for shame!

What are you even rabbling about? Wouldn't it be better for Bloom if Pivetta is some amazing pitcher he traded for in return for a bag of balls & he was right to rely on him as a valuable member of the pitching staff this year?

Pivetta isn't particularly good. He seems competent as a short reliever & has been ok in a bulk role in a limited sample.

The whole thing is an insult to Pedro, though. & Bernardino.

 

[Niastri]

The whole thing is an insult to Pedro, though. & Bernardino.

I didn't say I was proud of it.

If Pivetta is on a great streak like he sometimes has, we want him on the mound as many innings as possible.

If coming in in the third makes him more comfortable, or merely lets him dodge the other team's best hitters for a while, we want him pitching.

He is no longer cheap or young anymore, though, so I'll dial back on my enthusiasm if he starts going 7-8 innings of shutout ball the next month or so.

 

[JM3]

I didn't say I was proud of it.

If Pivetta is on a great streak like he sometimes has, we want him on the mound as many innings as possible.

If coming in in the third makes him more comfortable, or merely lets him dodge the other team's best hitters for a while, we want him pitching.

He is no longer cheap or young anymore, though, so I'll dial back on my enthusiasm if he starts going 7-8 innings of shutout ball the next month or so.

I would never want to deprive anyone of enthusiasm. But if that happens, I will be (very pleasantly) surprised.

 

[8slim]

I didn't say I was proud of it.

If Pivetta is on a great streak like he sometimes has, we want him on the mound as many innings as possible.

If coming in in the third makes him more comfortable, or merely lets him dodge the other team's best hitters for a while, we want him pitching.

He is no longer cheap or young anymore, though, so I'll dial back on my enthusiasm if he starts going 7-8 innings of shutout ball the next month or so.

Never let anyone tell you to dial back enthusiasm. Life is too short.

I’ve always felt Pivetta was a perfectly cromulent #5 starter. He’s a little under league average when it come to ERA+, he’s generally healthy enough to take the mound every 5 days, and he’s a little under 50% in terms of quality starts per start (5 IP/ 2 ER or 6 IP/ 3 ER). There’s value in that, particularly for a franchise that has (a) an above average offense, and (b) a lot of oft-injured starters.

He reminds me of Al Nipper. Sometimes you need a guy who’s just kinda there for a few seasons.

 

[simplicio]

I was a Pivetta defender before, but he really took a huge step backward this year as a starter. I'm grateful he's found a role in the pen cause I do appreciate his fire.

 

[Sandy Leon Trotsky]

I was a Pivetta defender before, but he really took a huge step backward this year as a starter. I'm grateful he's found a role in the pen cause I do appreciate his fire.

Exactly the same here. I even thought he was bound to take a step forward as a starter with no having to face the ALE as often, along with what I perceived as a determination to improve.
He’s had some other stretches of great pitching… if the Sox can capture those stretches and harness it then great. Starter or long relief or interpretive dancer…

 

[JM3]

#DirtyWalter

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1677814186460565506

 

[JM3]

The Sherriff [cool sheriff pun saying he's gone]

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisHenrique/status/1678464683148189715

 

[AB in DC]

Surprised he didn't get more of a chance in Boston with the revolving door we've had the past month or two.

 

[JM3]

Kenley is closing in the All Star game.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1678863875880681476


& on Ohtani obviously.

View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1678893958456565760

 

[JM3]

Hopefully he'll funnel his best pupils to us.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1678880496246300672

 

[JM3]

Bullpen seems to be coming together lately.

View: https://twitter.com/EdHand89/status/1680048736498491392


Schreiber pitched a 1-2-3 inning for Worcester yesterday with 2 strikeouts & should be about ready to replace Scott.

Bleier also pitched a 1-2-3 inning for Worcester yesterday & could potentially replace Jacques.

 

[RobertsSteal]

#DirtyWalter

View: https://twitter.com/redsoxstats/status/1677814186460565506

Fun list. I would’ve guessed way more than 1 for Eck, Melancon, and Williamson!

 

[soxhop411]

View: https://twitter.com/smittyonmlb/status/1680566424735997956?s=46
View: https://twitter.com/smittyonmlb/status/1680558844349431810?s=46


Taylor scott DFA’d for Jake Faria

 

[JM3]

I guess they want a disposable guy in case of emergency long relief...

Faria has a 6.47 ERA (35 walks in 55.1 IP) mostly as a starter for Worcester. His last game was 5.1 innings on the 5th, so he should be able to pitch poorly for a long time if necessary.

 

[JM3]

Basically this...

View: https://twitter.com/tylermilliken_/status/1680567853290758144

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Wasn’t he up for a day and DFA’d earlier in the year? But yeah, completely fungible.

 

[E5 Yaz]

@PeteAbe
A few injury updates:
* Bleier could rejoin the roster in Oakland.
* Sox want Schreiber to go back-to-back this week. He could return during the next homestand.
* Whitlock not playing catch, so this is now two weeks.

 

[TapeAndPosts]

Faria gets put in with an 11 run lead, walks the first four batters, gets lit up for five runs but gives us the two innings. If that's the only outing of his Red Sox career, it will have worked out just fine.

 

[JM3]

Faria gets put in with an 11 run lead, walks the first four batters, gets lit up for five runs but gives us the two innings. If that's the only outing of his Red Sox career, it will have worked out just fine.

Seems like it's time to DFA him for Bleier.

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Seems like it's time to DFA him for Bleier.

Would that make it six lefties in the pen? And then Schreiber replaces Jakes?

 

[JM3]

Would that make it six lefties in the pen? And then Schreiber replaces Jakes?

Yeah, it's a bit excessive, which is why Cora said he was using Winck as a 1 inning guy to keep him available more.

But I think that makes the most sense since it seems Schreiber is still a few days away & I don't think anyone wants to see any more Faria in a Sox uniform.

R
Jansen
Martin
(Schreiber)
Winck
Pivetta - kinda
[Faria] - DFA

L
Joely
Bernardino
Murphy
Walter
(Bleier)
[Jacques] - Option to WooSox

 

[bosockboy]

Yeah, it's a bit excessive, which is why Cora said he was using Winck as a 1 inning guy to keep him available more.

But I think that makes the most sense since it seems Schreiber is still a few days away & I don't think anyone wants to see any more Faria in a Sox uniform.

R
Jansen
Martin
(Schreiber)
Winck
Pivetta - kinda
[Faria] - DFA

L
Joely
Bernardino
Murphy
Walter
(Bleier)
[Jacques] - Option to WooSox

Guessing when and if Whitlock is back, he’s a part of the pen.

 

[soxhop411]

Jake Faria was called into the manager's office after the game, so another roster move coming tomorrow. It wasn't pretty, but his two innings were important with back-to-back bullpen days coming up.
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1680698188624277504?s=20

 

[joe dokes]

Jake Faria was called into the manager's office after the game, so another roster move coming tomorrow. It wasn't pretty, but his two innings were important with back-to-back bullpen days coming up.
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1680698188624277504?s=20

There might be an opening in Visalia next year.

(but, yes, all else aside, they were important innings.)

 

[Benj4ever]

Faria gets put in with an 11 run lead, walks the first four batters, gets lit up for five runs but gives us the two innings. If that's the only outing of his Red Sox career, it will have worked out just fine.

...and if it's not the last outing of his Red Sox career, then we have a problem.

 

[JM3]

Guessing when and if Whitlock is back, he’s a part of the pen.

Depends on timing/other acquisitions I would guess. But if everyone is healthy you're getting Pivetta as an actual reliever & at least 1 of Houck/Whitlock/Crawford. So a good # of high leverage righty relievers.

 

[joe dokes]

...and if it's not the last outing of his Red Sox career, then we have a problem.

If they know they'll have 11run leads, then he can stay for them.

 

[JM3]

Gudiño is in the game for Worcester right now so this seems unlikely. Booser actually may be pitching too well to join the fungible express even if he wasn't lefty. Nuñez might be an option if Bleier isn't ready.

View: https://twitter.com/ChrisHenrique/status/1680692380788219904

 

[JM3]

Some stuff on both those guys I posted yesterday...

Speaking of older lefty prospects, Cam Booser pitched a 1-2-3 8th with 2 strikeouts. If y'all remember, Booser is the guy who retired from baseball for like 4 years to be a carpenter before coming back last year. He was picked up by the Red Sox this off season & got off to an abominable start.

However, in his last 9 games, the 31 y/o from Seattle, has pitched 10.1 scoreless innings, allowing 4 hits & 2 walks while striking out 14.

Like have they actually found something here? Of course, his ERA on the season is still 5.91... but that's an intriguing stretch from a guy with a huge fastball who has never harnessed it in the past.

Here's a fairly recent MassLive article on Booser.

Andrés Núñez pitched a 1-2-3 7th. After a 6.66 ERA for the Royals AAA club this year, he has allowed 1 run in 6.1 innings since joining Worcester with 3 hits, 2 walks & 4 strikeouts for a 1.42 ERA.

 

[JM3]

Lol just saw this...

View: https://twitter.com/SPChrisHatfield/status/1680696942559363074

 

[Benj4ever]

If they know they'll have 11run leads, then he can stay for them.

LOL!

 

[Martin and Woods]

There might be an opening in Visalia next year.

Although I think they're looking for a catcher...

 

[Archer1979]

Jake Faria was called into the manager's office after the game, so another roster move coming tomorrow. It wasn't pretty, but his two innings were important with back-to-back bullpen days coming up.
View: https://twitter.com/PeteAbe/status/1680698188624277504?s=20

Agreed.

As much as watching those two innings rivalled getting root canal as an experience, Crawford only threw 89 pitches and the only bullpen arm that could be needed in the near future (Jacques) threw 12 pitches. Using Faria to get six outs and not sweating the game was among the best of all possible outcomes going into two bullpen games.

 

[joe dokes]

Agreed.

As much as watching those two innings rivalled getting root canal as an experience, Crawford only threw 89 pitches and the only bullpen arm that could be needed in the near future (Jacques) threw 12 pitches. Using Faria to get six outs and not sweating the game was among the best of all possible outcomes going into two bullpen games.

Yesterday was the flipside of Saturday, when they expected Paxton to get them deep into the game. Not only did Crawford get them to the 7th, but the offense allowed the high-leverage pitchers to sit. We tend to look at the opener/bullpen games only through the lens of what the pitchers have to do. But a well-timed 6+ run game or 2 will allow some wins when the pitchers are either not sharp or just normally mediocre.

 

[Archer1979]

Yesterday was the flipside of Saturday, when they expected Paxton to get them deep into the game. Not only did Crawford get them to the 7th, but the offense allowed the high-leverage pitchers to sit. We tend to look at the opener/bullpen games only through the lens of what the pitchers have to do. But a well-timed 6+ run game or 2 will allow some wins when the pitchers are either not sharp or just normally mediocre.

Friday night's usage was economical as well. The only two relief pitchers that might not be available tonight are Jacques (pitched the last two games) and Walter (threw 34 pitches Saturday).

 

[Lose Remerswaal]

Friday night's usage was economical as well. The only two relief pitchers that might not be available tonight are Jacques (pitched the last two games) and Walter (threw 34 pitches Saturday).

You didn’t mention Faria. PLEASE tell me he can’t ever pitch again. I haven’t seen a transaction with him.

 

[Archer1979]

You didn’t mention Faria. PLEASE tell me he can’t ever pitch again. I haven’t seen a transaction with him.

Nothing yet, but he's got to be roster fodder for when they want to bring up someone else.

 

[JM3]

It's interesting (to me) that they haven't announced who's opening today, nor who is going to be taking Faria's spot on the roster.

I wonder if it's going to be the same person? Brendan Nail would be my vote for both, but I doubt it will happen.

Richard Bleier more likely? Lefty opener in front of Pivetta still makes the most sense.

 

[JM3]

It's interesting (to me) that they haven't announced who's opening today, nor who is going to be taking Faria's spot on the roster.

I wonder if it's going to be the same person? Brendan Nail would be my vote for both, but I doubt it will happen.

Richard Bleier more likely? Lefty opener in front of Pivetta still makes the most sense.

Nvm. Bleier in for Faria, Bernardino opening. Fine results.

View: https://twitter.com/SmittyOnMLB/status/1681059097121095683


View: https://twitter.com/ChrisCotillo/status/1681059275588657153

 

[Petagine in a Bottle]

Six lefties in the pen. Why open with the best one?

It’s the A’s, so shouldn’t really matter.

 

[JM3]

Six lefties in the pen. Why open with the best one?

It’s the A’s, so shouldn’t really matter.

First 2 innings against the top of the order is pretty high leverage compared to most non-endgame scenarios, & Martin & Jansen are rested.