2023 Broncos: Payton’s Place

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
this is a major turning point season for Denver because

A Jim H or Payton goes to denver and denver is set to be the 4th best AFC Team over the next 3 years

or B we stike out on both and end up with dan quinn or demeno ryans

the first big q is Wilson done my anwser is maybe unless we get much better at OL

we have only 14 mil in cap space and 52 players under contect but sutton couild be deait and bolies the LT couild re-work his deal plus cutting darby and glasgow wouild add 15 mil in space

QB it's all about wilson he is bad if he is made to stay in pocket but on the move and a stong run game he is top 15
RB with J Williams back L Murray likely back and m boode denver has no need at RB
WR Jerdy is a num 1 wr Sutton 50-50 on being back Patrick a rod smith type of blocker leader and lots of young guys in the pipeline this area is set too
TE Dulcuh couild be a jimmy graham type of te all denver needs here is a blocking TE
OL we need 3 new starters here at least C is a black hole RT is a turnside and G couild use a upgrade
DL if dremont jones comes back no needs here
LB Edge is loaded browning is a 8/10 sack guy Gregory if healhy is also a 8/10 sack guy ILB is really deep with singletion a FA bill needs to make a run at him jewell and griffin no need here
CB the best part on this team with PS2 Darby? matins k williams denver has 4 very good CB
S simmons is the best player on the team had 6 picks can play slot cb too
ST Was god awaful

denver sch
home - KC VEGAS LAC NE NYJ CLE MINN GB WASH
AWAY CHI DET KC LAC VEGAS BUFF MIA HOU

Best Case 11-6 8-1 at home and beating Chi Hou Det
Worst Case 7-10 loseing to chi det minn ne
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
update on coaching

harbaugh is out

its
1 payton - if this happens denver gm is out
2 quinn dallas dc - this would be a signal the gm is fine
3 Jim Caldwell just like john fox in 2011 if payton says no this is my num 2
4 demarno ryans sf dc
5 david shaw ex stanford coach
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
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Jul 15, 2005
32,544
update on coaching

harbaugh is out

its
1 payton - if this happens denver gm is out
2 quinn dallas dc - this would be a signal the gm is fine
3 Jim Caldwell just like john fox in 2011 if payton says no this is my num 2
4 demarno ryans sf dc
5 david shaw ex stanford coach
I feel like they have to do better if they don’t get Payton. How old is Caldwell? Maybe he would be ok.

What about Kafka? A lot of literary jokes potential.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
no has to trade payton unlees arizona is willing to part with the 3 overall pick i feel denver is sean only opinton unlees he sits out utill 24 if he wants the LAC KC job idk how that will work because

the LAC owners like a coach and GM together and i feel reid will be in KC for 3-5 more years
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
I feel like they have to do better if they don’t get Payton. How old is Caldwell? Maybe he would be ok.

What about Kafka? A lot of literary jokes potential.
penner wants a big name $ is not a worry to him i think caldwell is 59 i will check and our 1st round pick is really a 2nd unlees dallas wins go cowboys

the giants DC and OC will get more looks a year from now

hou needs a young coach like philly OC or DC or ryans since he played for them
Car i have no idea what they will do wilks was good
indy same boat as denver ex can get a qb now
arizona total rebuild here

if i rank the jobs
1 hou
2 den
3 car
4 indy
5 zona
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
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Jul 15, 2005
32,544
penner wants a big name $ is not a worry to him i think caldwell is 59 i will check and our 1st round pick is really a 2nd unlees dallas wins go cowboys

the giants DC and OC will get more looks a year from now

hou needs a young coach like philly OC or DC or ryans since he played for them
Car i have no idea what they will do wilks was good
indy same boat as denver ex can get a qb now
arizona total rebuild here

if i rank the jobs
1 hou
2 den
3 car
4 indy
5 zona
I looked up Caldwell. He is 68. That’s kind of old.
 

Old Fart Tree

the maven of meat
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I think Wilson is going to scare off a lot of names. If he’s truly toast, that’s a coach killing scenario.
 

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
i have no idea who is getting the job ryans has said he does not want it

my guess
is B Calliah Ciny OC or J Gannon philly DC
 

Granite Sox

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Feb 6, 2003
5,040
The Granite State
Supposedly Harbaugh had a second (secret) video meeting with Denver last week. Word got out in AA and a lot of people are pissed. Did not result in an agreement, so it feels like after swinging for the fences on a couple of guys, Denver will be looking at a new/fresh face and not a retread.
 

Anthologos

New Member
Jun 4, 2017
107
Supposedly Harbaugh had a second (secret) video meeting with Denver last week. Word got out in AA and a lot of people are pissed. Did not result in an agreement, so it feels like after swinging for the fences on a couple of guys, Denver will be looking at a new/fresh face and not a retread.
AA is Ann Arbor, right. I thought the other…thing.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
i was shocked we got Payton

i know if i was looking for a head coach job i would had pushed for Arizona or carnona
he is going to try to copy NE lite

i ex the def to take a step back but the off to score between 21-24 pts most weeks

the real effect of Payton will not be feit utill 24 or 25

the goal is to hope that Wilson can be a top 12-15 qb until 2026
which if u saw last season its a q mark at best

but the key thing in this is broncos ownship is willing to go the extra mile to get what they think is a top tier coach as denver was in on the top 3 names in this clyle

the first season the goal is get to 9 wins and build a foundison for 2025 and up

the one good thing about elway as a gm was he never had us in cap hell now with wilson and payton we are plob going to go into cap hell by 2 ways
1 if wilson sucks we will have to eat 85 mil over 2 seasons 24 and 25 or
2 if wilson is good he and payton will load up every year utill we get 58 mil over the cap like N O is now

if this works is plob a 5 year marriage for wilson and a 5-8 year marriage for payton
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
32,544
@j-man my man, looks like you will be getting Rex running the D. Going to be a lot of shit talk coming out of Denver this year. Should be fun.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
@j-man my man, looks like you will be getting Rex running the D. Going to be a lot of shit talk coming out of Denver this year. Should be fun.
we will see also maybe vance joseph lol what with payton wanted all of denver failed head coaches lol rex could be good but my fear is good QB'S will crave denver def up but denver might have the best secony in the nfl so it couild work
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
i expect a lot of moves yes denve only has 12 mil in cap space but by cutting Glawcow Edmons and Darby hopefully we can trade him it would free up around 24 mil more room

here what i would do
1 tag DE D Jones and try to trade him for a 1st or 2nd round pick he been on socica media talking about how he want that $$
2 Trade WR Sutton for a 2nd round pick patrick can do many of the things sutton can and is cheaper
3 sign as many ex saints as a can to build the culture in year 1
 

DJnVa

Dorito Dawg
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Dec 16, 2010
53,470
Russell Wilson’s first year with Broncos: ‘Too much influence,’ too few wins in disorganized disaster

  • Before the trade, Wilson asked Seahawks ownership to fire head coach Pete Carroll and general manager John Schneider. The quarterback was convinced those two were hamstringing his chances for success. He even had a preferred coach in mind: Sean Payton. Days later, Seattle dealt Wilson to Denver.

  • There, Wilson installed his own support staff alongside Broncos personnel. Wilson had his own office too, which blurred the line between coach and player — in a bad way. Wilson even brought his own quarterback coach, Jake Heaps. Who was Wilson listening to? Heaps? Or Nathaniel Hackett, the head coach known for coaching QBs? And what about actual Broncos quarterbacks coach Klint Kubiak? It sounds like a disaster.

  • Wilson even asked offensive players to come into the facility on Tuesdays — the only day players have off during game weeks — for “state of the union” meetings, which usually included film sessions. Wilson and Heaps ran these meetings. Some players said they were helpful, while others thought they were weird.
 

Euclis20

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Aug 3, 2004
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Outside of criminal activity, I don't remember anyone's star ever falling quite so far and as fast as Wilson's has over the last 12 months. It's really something.
 

rodderick

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Apr 24, 2009
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Belo Horizonte - Brazil
Hackett came across awful in that article - basically, he saw Aaron Rodgers throw his weight around in Green Bay, so the lesson he learned from that was ... let the star QB do whatever he wants, to keep the drama to a mininum. He seems like he'd be in over his head in a kiddie pool.
"Let's just do whatever the QB wants to ease this transition" seems like a disqualifying approach. Maybe a HC could succeed like that with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but Russell Wilson?
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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So, it seems Sean Payton was at the center of two different situations where quarterbacks trying to force their will on teams he wasn’t a part of in a single offseason. Are we sure that’s allowed?
 

j-man

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Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
for 2023

the good news is denver will finally have a pro offence after 6 years of not having one lol
the bad is with vance joseph back as DC the D will take a step back as he is known for not dealing well with TE'S

but with better offence other than KC 2X @ BUFF @ MIA and NE MINN sch is not as hard as last year

here is a bold pick if denver beats KC at home they will go 9-0 at home

Ex about 5 or 6 new starters on off and sorry feglar no juedy to the pats

i think denver will be 10-7 they will find a way to win 2 road games @ Chi and then 1 of Vegas Hou LAC

worse case is 7-10

QB Wilson
RB J Williams will be out for the first 4-6 weeks of next season so ex a FA Back here
WR Jerdy
WR Patrick
WR Hamler i think sutton will be dealit at the draft for a 2 or two threes
te Ducluh
LT Bolies
LG Draft pick or FA
C maybe crush but i couild see someone else here
RGQ Menrtz
RT FA or pick

DE D Jones is a q mark he is a FA or
Uwazurike, Eyioma


NT D J Jones
RDE Henningsen or pick or fa
OLB browning
ILB Greiffth
ILB Jewwll
Olb gregory
CB Surtain ii
cb matins
NB K Willims
fs Simmons
SS Steins
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
today was a good day added 2 starting O-lineman a backup qb at a good rate will miss d jones but maybe S Harris comes back on a 1 yr deal
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
34,021
"Let's just do whatever the QB wants to ease this transition" seems like a disqualifying approach. Maybe a HC could succeed like that with Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but Russell Wilson?
I think Hackett was in over his head, but honestly he was set up to fail and he had little choice but to let Russ have what he wanted.

Hackett was a first time head coach with no player personnel control making $4M or so a year.
His GM then trades 3 players, two 1st round picks, two 2nd round picks and a 5th for Russell Wilson, a QB who is available because he's unhappy at the amount of control his coach gives him in SEA.
They then sign Wilson to a 5 year $245M contract with $165M guaranteed.

That tells everyone in the building what level of QB you think he is, and which guy is going to be there long term if there are issues.

There are coaches who can squash a guy like Russ and win that fight... but it's all guys who either also have personnel control, or are long-time multiple Superbowl type guys. Everyone else, when push comes to shove the QB is gonna win.
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
love the singleton move all we need now is someone to replace DE D JONES hopefully DE Z Allen or de s harris
 

JM3

often quoted
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Dec 14, 2019
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View: https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/1635443086355464195?cxt=HHwWhoCwyc60obItAAAA

Was just looking at Steven Ruiz's preview article. This is the Broncos 2nd "buyer beware" guy they've acquired already:

Buyer beware: Zach Allen
Expected deal value (via PFF): $12.5 million APY, three years

Allen is coming off the dreaded contract-year jump and will almost certainly cash in. He has always been a decent run defender, but he added some pass-rush prowess to his game, logging a career high in sacks, hits, and hurries for Arizona last year, per Pro Football Focus. Allen may have the talent to keep that up, but it was the first season in his career when he looked like more than an average defensive lineman.
Buyer beware: Ben Powers
Expected deal value (via PFF): $10 million APY, four years

Powers put up good numbers as a pass blocker in 2022 but had mostly been an average player before then. Playing in Baltimore’s run-heavy system makes pass blocking a bit easier—seeing a lot of runs and play-action passes can take the teeth out of a pass rush—and I wouldn’t want to be the team that pays $10 million a year to find out whether Powers can keep it up outside of that environment.
https://www.theringer.com/2023/3/13/23633460/guide-to-2023-nfl-free-agency-lamar-jackson-orlando-brown-jamel-dean-jessie-bates-tremaine-edmunds
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
well d jones will get around 80-90 mil form someone so allen is a good buy for day 1 at 45 mil the powers deal is basiccy 2y and 27 mil the only deal i worry about is the RT we signed from SF J Taylor wouild been better fit and younger

all denver needs now is a RB looking at l murray played for us last year and payton in no
maybe a C to push kush allthrough that can be used as a draft pick need
and i still wouild like 1 more DE ethler S Harris or Deshawn Williams
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
denver couild allmost line up and play a game today lol
QB Wilson Jerrest s
RB J Willims ? for the season the early part
WR Jerdy he is staying at least for 1 more year at least unlees we get a 1st
WR Hamler
WR Patrick
i expat corland to be dealt before the draft for a 2nd or a 3rd and 4th
TE Ducluh manhertz
LT Bolies
LG Powers
C Kush or a draft pick
RG Mentz
RT Mike M

LE Z Allen
DT DJ Jones
RE ?
LB BROWNING
LB Singletlon
LB Jewll
LB Gregory
CB PS2
CB Martis
NB K Williams
FS Simmons
SS Stens for now but otherwise a ? mark
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
denver only has 5 picks in this year draft

here are my guess
1 RB with J Williams unlikely before week 6 and rb being a down pos i ex denver to draft a runner at some point
2 WR with jerdy maybe and suttion likely gone after 23 denver needs a young wideout
3 C needs a jume 1 vet or a rook to push cush lol
4 DE denver needs 1 more DE etiher post june 1 or in the draft
5 EDGE gregory cannot stay on the field and browning is too up/down but denver does good work in the unfa market
6 CB denver has been snakebit at this spot for at least 3 years as far as health goes
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
here is my guess on denver Sch
week 1 @ KC kickoff game
Week 2 NYJ MNF
Week 3 Wash
Week 4 @ chi
week 5 Vegas
week 6 Cle
week 7 bye
week 8 @ det
week 9 @ lac
week 10 ne SNF
week 11 @ vegas TNF
Week 12 minn
Week 13 @ mia
Week 14 gb
Week 15 LAC
Week 16 @ buff
week 17 @ HOU
Week 18 kc
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
Broncos 2023 schedule
[TH]Wk[/TH] [TH]Date[/TH] [TH]Opponent[/TH] [TH]Time (MT)[/TH] [TH]TV[/TH]
1 9/10/2023 vs. Las Vegas Raiders 2:25 PM CBS
2 9/17/2023 vs. Washington Commanders 2:25 PM CBS
3 9/24/2023 at Miami Dolphins 11:00 AM CBS
4 10/1/2023 at Chicago Bears 11:00 AM CBS
5 10/8/2023 vs. New York Jets 2:25 PM CBS
6 10/12/2023 at Kansas City Chiefs (TNF) 6:15 PM Prime Video
7 10/22/2023 vs. Green Bay Packers 2.25 PM CBS
8 10/29/2023 vs. Kansas City Chiefs 2:25 PM CBS
9 11/5/2023 BYE
10 11/13/2023 at Buffalo Bills (MNF) 6:15 PM ESPN
11 11/19/2023 vs. Minnesota Vikings (SNF) 6:20 PM NBC
12 11/26/2023 vs. Cleveland Browns 2:05 PM FOX
13 12/3/2023 at Houston Texans 2:05 PM CBS
14 12/10/2023 at Los Angeles Chargers 2:25 PM CBS
15 TBD at Detroit Lions TBD TBD
16 12/24/2023 vs. New England Patriots (SNF) 6:15 PM NFL Network
17 12/31/2023 vs. Los Angeles Chargers 2:25 PM CBS
18 TBD at Las Vegas Raiders TBD TBD
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
my 02

the nfl is trying to help us overall only bad game is miami w 3 only because of the heat if denver wins that game a 5-0 start is very possible then other than GB couild lose the next 4 looks like the NE/DEN game will be a wild card emition game no ex for denver not to have at least 9 wins with this sch
 

j-man

Member
Dec 19, 2012
3,607
Arkansas
bumping this for camp

if wilson is not totaly cooked
denver only has 2 big weakness K and DL Death

the glass haif full says 10 wins
the glass haif emety says 8 wins
 

luckiestman

Son of the Harpy
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Jul 15, 2005
32,544
bumping this for camp

if wilson is not totaly cooked
denver only has 2 big weakness K and DL Death

the glass haif full says 10 wins
the glass haif emety says 8 wins
It’s really crazy how almost every fanbase in the AFC can be rightfully optimistic. The AFC South is the weakest but Houston and Indy have their young QBs. Tenn in worst spot but they could surprise. What are the reports on Russ out of camp so far?
 

dcdrew10

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Dec 8, 2005
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Washington, DC via Worcester
Sean Peyton pulling no punches on Nathaniel Hackett:

“It might have been one of the worst coaching jobs in the history of the NFL,” Payton told Bell. “That’s how bad it was.”

Payton made it clear that “everybody’s got a little stink on their hands,” for what happened last year, even if most of the stench came from Hackett.

“There’s 20 dirty hands, for what was allowed, tolerated in the fricking training rooms, the meeting rooms,” Payton said, an apparent reference to Hackett allowing Wilson’s entourage to have an active presence in the facility. “The offense. I don’t know Hackett. A lot of people had dirt on their hands. It wasn’t just Russell [Wilson]. He didn’t just flip. He still has it. This B.S. that he hit a wall? Shoot, they couldn’t get a play in. They were 29th in the league in pre-snap penalties on both sides of the ball.”
I don't recall a coach ripping another coach quite like that, but he's not completely wrong.
 

Super Nomario

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Nov 5, 2000
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Mansfield MA
Is there some history between these two or something? Also you're going to blame Hackett for Russ's entourage but not Russ himself? This Peyton tenure in Denver has boom or bust all over it.
You're reading too much into it. It's boilerplate: deflect the blame to the guy that's no longer here and minimize the blame on the guy(s) you still have to work with.