2023-24 Celtics

benhogan

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The funniest part in regards to Hauser:
He's gone from his agent asking for $65MM extension this summer to spot minutes within weeks.

He's our 7th man who plays 20-24mpg, he'll take a team-friendly extension this summer with 1yr left at $2.1MM
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ha! Yeah was watching multiple games I just recall seeing Hauser late on everything for an extended period. Maybe it was Halliburton but it was on switches not involving him too.
According to NBA.com, Hauser only gave up two made baskets: one to Halliburton where he was clearly looking for help/to hand-off Haliburton and one to Turner.

Maybe it was the other game. :)
 

HomeRunBaker

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According to NBA.com, Hauser only gave up two made baskets: one to Halliburton where he was clearly looking for help/to hand-off Haliburton and one to Turner.

Maybe it was the other game. :)
No he wasn't getting beat with the ball he was getting beat on his movements and rotations. It was 100% this game and very noticeable on B2B plays or else it wouldn't have stuck out to me. I'm thinking he's been worn down or being made to look slower by playing against so many first units.

Has he not seemed a step off to anyone else of late compared to earlier in the year? Maybe it was this matchup with so much Pacer movement but I thought I noticed it in the prior game as well.
 

128

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No he wasn't getting beat with the ball he was getting beat on his movements and rotations. It was 100% this game and very noticeable on B2B plays or else it wouldn't have stuck out to me. I'm thinking he's been worn down or being made to look slower by playing against so many first units.

Has he not seemed a step off to anyone else of late compared to earlier in the year? Maybe it was this matchup with so much Pacer movement but I thought I noticed it in the prior game as well.
He's out tonite with a shoulder injury. Perhaps that's been affecting his overall game.
 

HomeRunBaker

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He's out tonite with a shoulder injury. Perhaps that's been affecting his overall game.
It's possible. I'm not saying he was moving around like Thomas Hamilton out there jaut a subtle difference and for a guy like Hauser he can't afford to lose half a step
 

the moops

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It's possible. I'm not saying he was moving around like Thomas Hamilton out there jaut a subtle difference and for a guy like Hauser he can't afford to lose half a step
I’m guessing there were a few plays where he got caught on a screen or guessed the wrong way and those plays are standing out in your mind.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I’m guessing there were a few plays where he got caught on a screen or guessed the wrong way and those plays are standing out in your mind.
Yeah it was definitely a small handful of plays but I recall thinking something didn't look right w him the prior game too. Now I'm going to have to find this sequence tonight so I can sleep lol.
 

benhogan

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Yeah it was definitely a small handful of plays but I recall thinking something didn't look right w him the prior game too. Now I'm going to have to find this sequence tonight so I can sleep lol.
yea he hasn't looked as locked-in defensively when playing OKC/Indy recently.
probably a combination of 2 superb offensive teams, bad shoulder, road weariness, limited minutes, etc
 

the moops

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yea he hasn't looked as locked-in defensively when playing OKC/Indy recently.
probably a combination of 2 superb offensive teams, bad shoulder, road weariness, limited minutes, etc
Where is this limited minutes thing coming from? He played 28 against UTA just a few nights ago. Only 10 against OKC, but 20 and 34 minutes the previous two games before that
 

benhogan

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Where is this limited minutes thing coming from? He played 28 against UTA just a few nights ago. Only 10 against OKC, but 20 and 34 minutes the previous two games before that
really?

he's our 7th man that basically plays 20-24mpg in tight games

He plays plenty of garbage minutes when they blowout teams like Utah
OR
He plays big minutes when Porzingis, Horford, and Tatum are all out like the Toronto game 11 days ago
 

the moops

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really?

he's our 7th man that basically plays 20-24mpg in tight games

He plays plenty of garbage minutes when they blowout teams like Utah
OR
He plays big minutes when Porzingis, Horford, and Tatum are all out like the Toronto game 11 days ago
No I meant like why are people saying he has been playing "limited minutes"? Doesn't seem limited to me
 

SoxFanInPdx

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Really loving this team so far this season. What few games I’ve been able to watch out here in my region

Speaking of, didn’t there used to be a League Pass thread in the forum? Wondering how it is this season. I really want to watch this team more.

Feel free to DM me if you have any other alternatives you all use. Not sure if I missed a holiday promotion or not. Apologies in advance for the slight derail in the thread here.
 

lovegtm

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Man, that early 3rd quarter effort/execution was as bad as I've seen in awhile. Like, "the OKC game last year" bad.

The team actually played pretty well for the final 18 minutes (the Svi stretch was a bit rough), but Indy had confidence/energy and was hitting some ridiculous shots.

Regarding the ending: nothing to be said that hasn't been. The overturn and its explanation were off the charts in sketchiness. Heads need to roll for this one (but, of course, they won't).
 
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m0ckduck

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Man, that early 3rd quarter effort/execution was as bad as I've seen in awhile. Like, "the OKC game last year" bad.
To me, it looked more like the C's came out with the same first half effort/execution, while IND ratcheted their energy way up, flying around after losing Haliburton and the first half by 9 points. In the four minutes it took us to match their intensity, the lead was already gone. It wasn't so much like, "we got worse"— more like, "they got better".

But maybe this is just a different way of saying the same thing vis-a-vis the C's 3rd quarter struggles. Which isn't really a 3rd quarter thing so much as a "road second half" thing. By point differential, C's rank first in the league in Q1and second in Q2. Then, it drops to 11th in Q3 (was previously 9th before last night's debacle) and 9th in Q4 with big home/road splits. On the road, C's rank 17th in Q3 and 12th in the 4th. Perhaps what we're seeing is the C's playing basically unbeatable basketball during the first half, which— in the regular season— tends to played at a relatively pedestrian intensity level and so is won on skill/execution. Then, opponents come out of the locker room fired up for the 3rd, finding themselves behind in the scoreboard and motivated not to be embarrassed on their home court, and we're not able to adjust to the elevated intensity coming out halftime on the road.
 
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NomarsFool

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I would guess that most good teams have poorer point differentials in the fourth quarter from having comfortable leads and subbing in their bench.
 

NomarsFool

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Al Horford’s ability to splash key three pointers on low volume is amazing. Maybe it’s just fan observation bias, but I feel like he almost never takes threes except when we absolutely need one and he makes them 100% of the time. Incredible.

Not exactly the opposite, but I feel like KP needs to slow down a half a second on his threes or something. He seems rushed and has been cold for over two months from deep.
 

benhogan

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Man, that early 3rd quarter effort/execution was as bad as I've seen in awhile. Like, "the OKC game last year" bad.

The team actually played pretty well for the final 18 minutes (the Svi stretch was a bit rough), but Indy had confidence/energy and was hitting some ridiculous shots.

Regarding the ending: nothing to be said that hasn't been. The overturn and its explanation were off the charts in sketchiness. Heads need to roll for this one (but, of course, they won't).
Ugh, the Celtics 3rd Quarter defense was a mix-tape of open 3s, TJ layups, and a red carpet to the FT line. Not exactly a recipe for winning basketball.

Love Al but thought the double BIG lineup left too many guys open/running free & was hoping Joe would start Brissett at the 4 (with Tatum/Hauser out).

The "win one for Tyrese" crew came out inspired in Q3.
 

HomeRunBaker

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To me, it looked more like the C's came out with the same first half effort/execution, while IND ratcheted their energy way up, flying around after losing Haliburton and the first half by 9 points. In the four minutes it took us to match their intensity, the lead was already gone. It wasn't so much like, "we got worse"— more like, "they got better".

But maybe this is just a different way of saying the same thing vis-a-vis the C's 3rd quarter struggles. Which isn't really a 3rd quarter thing so much as a "road second half" thing. By point differential, C's rank first in the league in Q1and second in Q2. Then, it drops to 11th in Q3 (was previously 9th before last night's debacle) and 9th in Q4 with big home/road splits. On the road, C's rank 17th in Q3 and 12th in the 4th. Perhaps what we're seeing is the C's playing basically unbeatable basketball during the first half, which— in the regular season— tends to played at a relatively pedestrian intensity level and so is won on skill/execution. Then, opponents come out of the locker room fired up for the 3rd, finding themselves behind in the scoreboard and motivated not to be embarrassed on their home court, and we're not able to adjust to the elevated intensity coming out halftime on the road.
I think it's a combination of things. One, the Celtics take their foot off the brake as they overthink what adjustments are now being made. Two, which is a cousin of one, the losing team is the team making halftime adjustments not the winning team. So it seems to me we are being reactionary in this chess match and take the necessary time to figure out what adjustments are being made then play the rest of the way to the score which makes Net Rating a little phony since we are playing to win the game not to win the game by more than we led at the half.
 

tims4wins

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Celts quietly have a 4 game lead for the one seed. I know that CJM has publicly stated he's not pushing nearly as hard for it as last year. I think it speaks to Milwaukee and Philly just being a tier lower than the Celts (at least, until pieces are added). Would be pretty sweet if they can extend the lead and then coast a bit down the stretch.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Celts quietly have a 4 game lead for the one seed. I know that CJM has publicly stated he's not pushing nearly as hard for it as last year. I think it speaks to Milwaukee and Philly just being a tier lower than the Celts (at least, until pieces are added). Would be pretty sweet if they can extend the lead and then coast a bit down the stretch.
Milwaukee had a nice stretch there for awhile but have reverted back to the same uninspired team that takes the floor without a purpose. Even before last nights loss without Lillard I had downgraded this team pretty significantly as others have touched upon in past few days. I don't have them in the same stratosphere as us and not even in same class as Philly. Miami is a team flying under the radar right now....Kevin Love has played like an All-Star over the past week and they looked great last night without Butler and with Bam in foul trouble. Jacquez is not only a top rookie....he's becoming one of the best players on one of the best teams in the East. It will be interesting to see how his game translates to the playoffs as it is based off effort and determination. In the playoffs that gap closes quickly.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I feel like teams that coast the FINAL few weeks seem to come out cold in the playoffs, but I'd be up for some coasting alternating with giving the team one-game tests. In looking at the schedule and picking their spots, without knowing where the standings will be my approach would be:
mid-Feb All Star break -> go hard through 3/14 v PHX -> coast through end March with exception of 3/20 v MIL -> go hard 4/3 v OKC and 4/5 v SAC -> cycle a starter to rest for each of the final 5 games, but play long minutes with who you got 4/9 @ MIL and 4/11 v NYK.

With the final 2 non-competitive games at home, you get a decent rest before the playoffs but not too long to build rust.
 

tims4wins

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I feel like teams that coast the FINAL few weeks seem to come out cold in the playoffs, but I'd be up for some coasting alternating with giving the team one-game tests. In looking at the schedule and picking their spots, without knowing where the standings will be my approach would be:
mid-Feb All Star break -> go hard through 3/14 v PHX -> coast through end March with exception of 3/20 v MIL -> go hard 4/3 v OKC and 4/5 v SAC -> cycle a starter to rest for each of the final 5 games, but play long minutes with who you got 4/9 @ MIL and 4/11 v NYK.

With the final 2 non-competitive games at home, you get a decent rest before the playoffs but not too long to build rust.
Yeah that's what I had in mind, not a full blown don't play hard for 3 weeks.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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I've been seeing the "investigation" phrasing by Jaylen used as a headline on fairly mainstream news websites this morning. I could see the league leadership strongly suggesting to JB that he reset his phrasing today, to redirect that he thinks the refs did a poor job in this case and not anything more sinister than that. As opposed to simply criticizing the refs which impacts those easy punching bags alone, suggesting something nefarious affects the paychecks of EVERYONE in the league.
 

lovegtm

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I've been seeing the "investigation" phrasing by Jaylen used as a headline on fairly mainstream news websites this morning. I could see the league leadership strongly suggesting to JB that he reset his phrasing today, to redirect that he thinks the refs did a poor job in this case and not anything more sinister than that. As opposed to simply criticizing the refs which impacts those easy punching bags alone, suggesting something nefarious affects the paychecks of EVERYONE in the league.
If they don't want him to suggest nefarious things, maybe they should not overturn fouls where he clearly gets hit in the head, and then amateurishly gaslight him about it?
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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If they don't want him to suggest nefarious things, maybe they should not overturn fouls where he clearly gets hit in the head, and then amateurishly gaslight him about it?
Not implying that I disagree with Jaylen's anger, but the league office will be trying to put on a good face in public while (hopefully?!!) dealing with the refs involved behind closed doors. There is a summit to be held amongst all parties for sure: Jaylen is usually very diplomatic as an executive director in the NBAPA, so for him to be publicly talking like that means he was very shocked and hurt by the refs' actions.

In addition, I know the refs won't be fully rebuked in public, but the 2-minute report needs to state this was a clear mistake.
 

PedroKsBambino

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I've been seeing the "investigation" phrasing by Jaylen used as a headline on fairly mainstream news websites this morning. I could see the league leadership strongly suggesting to JB that he reset his phrasing today, to redirect that he thinks the refs did a poor job in this case and not anything more sinister than that. As opposed to simply criticizing the refs which impacts those easy punching bags alone, suggesting something nefarious affects the paychecks of EVERYONE in the league.
That is definitely a possiblity - it's an aggressive language choice from a very thoughtful player and while he was emotional, I doubt it was an accident.

My sense was that his anger stemmed from the official telling him "no, you're wrong, you weren't hit in the head." If he really was told that, it's preposterous - the video is clear, and Hield even says he did make contact. You can argue (as Hield did) that the contact wasn't enough, or that it was associated with a block and thus ok, but you really just can't argue there was no head contact. Given that, why did ref say it? Odd, if indeed he said it....and denying Jaylen's reality is probably at least part of the cause of his reaction.

Will be interesting to see what's in the L2M report.
 

lovegtm

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That is definitely a possiblity - it's an aggressive language choice from a very thoughtful player and while he was emotional, I doubt it was an accident.

My sense was that his anger stemmed from the official telling him "no, you're wrong, you weren't hit in the head." If he really was told that, it's preposterous - the video is clear, and Hield even says he did make contact. You can argue (as Hield did) that the contact wasn't enough, or that it was associated with a block and thus ok, but you really just can't argue there was no head contact. Given that, why did ref say it? Odd, if indeed he said it....and denying Jaylen's reality is probably at least part of the cause of his reaction.

Will be interesting to see what's in the L2M report.
The official did indeed tell him that. There's clear video of him and Jaylen talking after the overturn. I forget whether it was audible, or I was reading lips, but you can see Jaylen asking for clarification that he wasn't hit in the head, and receiving it from the official.
 

Auger34

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I've been seeing the "investigation" phrasing by Jaylen used as a headline on fairly mainstream news websites this morning. I could see the league leadership strongly suggesting to JB that he reset his phrasing today, to redirect that he thinks the refs did a poor job in this case and not anything more sinister than that. As opposed to simply criticizing the refs which impacts those easy punching bags alone, suggesting something nefarious affects the paychecks of EVERYONE in the league.
I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill here honestly.

It was a fairly innocouous statement right after the game, I really don't think anyone involved with the NBA would care that much in this case.
 

RorschachsMask

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After a bit of correction on things like shooting variance and such, Celtics are still +8.6 with Jaylen on and Tatum off. Anywhere from +5 to +8ish feels completely sustainable over the course of the season.

Even with the meaningless loss last night, a huge benefit of the above is Tatum seems more willing to rest for a game if something is bothering him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I think you're making a mountain out of a mole hill here honestly.

It was a fairly innocouous statement right after the game, I really don't think anyone involved with the NBA would care that much in this case.
Jaylen following this up with a Buffalo Wild Wings tweet all but guarantees a fine.
 

lovegtm

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After a bit of correction on things like shooting variance and such, Celtics are still +8.6 with Jaylen on and Tatum off. Anywhere from +5 to +8ish feels completely sustainable over the course of the season.

Even with the meaningless loss last night, a huge benefit of the above is Tatum seems more willing to rest for a game if something is bothering him.
Yeah, Tatum can definitely rest when needed, and it's also a big deal for the playoffs. +8.6 without your superstar is really, really, really good. Like, not sure people realize how good that is.

Credit to Brad for his "acquire all the All Stars" roster-building strategy.
 

Ed Hillel

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Yeah, Tatum can definitely rest when needed, and it's also a big deal for the playoffs. +8.6 without your superstar is really, really, really good. Like, not sure people realize how good that is.

Credit to Brad for his "acquire all the All Stars" roster-building strategy.
Now here's the big question: When the actual playoffs start, how do you handle Al? Is any 2 game lead a rest day?
 

InstaFace

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I feel like teams that coast the FINAL few weeks seem to come out cold in the playoffs, but I'd be up for some coasting alternating with giving the team one-game tests. In looking at the schedule and picking their spots, without knowing where the standings will be my approach would be:
mid-Feb All Star break -> go hard through 3/14 v PHX -> coast through end March with exception of 3/20 v MIL -> go hard 4/3 v OKC and 4/5 v SAC -> cycle a starter to rest for each of the final 5 games, but play long minutes with who you got 4/9 @ MIL and 4/11 v NYK.

With the final 2 non-competitive games at home, you get a decent rest before the playoffs but not too long to build rust.
This lines up with what I posted back in October, about what actual test games the team has, amid the other faff in the schedule:

This team passed its first, let's call them quizzes, @NYK and vs MIA, requiring a comeback streak vs the Knicks, and a sustained 4-quarter effort vs the Heat. In the latter, we took the lead for good with 11 minutes remaining, but it was a 1 or 2 possession game until 4 minutes left, and with 1 minute left a Kevin Love 3 got it to within 3 points before we finished it off. So we passed the quizzes, but not with top marks -we looked more mortal against two tough well-coached teams. Obviously the last two games have been men-against-boys chuckle-fests. And I hope those continue, but they're not telling us much we don't already know.

We have another "quiz" coming up next Wednesday @ Philadelphia. Harden or no Harden, that team will play us tough. Orlando might be a problem at various points this year.

But here are the 16 "Test" games for the season, against the other 6 teams who are currently +1600 or better to win the championship, plus the Heat.

(BOS +400, MIL +450, DEN +500, PHX +700, LAC +1400, GSW +1500, LAL +1600... MIA +3600 lol)

Game 15, Nov 22: vs MIL
Game 26, Dec 19: @ GSW*
Game 28, Dec 23: @ LAC
Game 29, Dec 25: @ LAL
Game 38, Jan 11: @ MIL**
Game 42, Jan 19: vs DEN
Game 45, Jan 25: @ MIA***
Game 46, Jan 27: vs LAC***
Game 49, Feb 1: vs LAL
Game 53, Feb 11: @ MIA
Game 60, Mar 3: vs GSW
Game 62, Mar 7: @ DEN
Game 63, Mar 9: @ PHX
Game 66, Mar 14: vs PHX
Game 69, Mar 20: vs MIL
Game 79, Apr 9: @ MIL

* game is the front half of a back-to-back
** game is the back half of a back-to-back
*** opponent is on the back half of a back-to-back (Celtics rest advantage)
(N.B. game numbers are out of 80, and do not include the 2 yet-to-be-scheduled games during the tournament break in early December.)
I think we can add to that list our remaining home game vs Philadelphia, Feb 27th, and Apr 3rd vs OKC. But how have we done in those tests so far?

Game 7, Nov 8 @ PHI: L 103-106
Game 15, Nov 22: vs MIL: W 119-116
Game 26, Dec 19: @ GSW*: L 126-132 (OT)
Game 28, Dec 23: @ LAC: W 145-108
Game 29, Dec 25: @ LAL: W 126-115

An early-season close loss at Philadelphia was tough but not deeply concerning. The Bucks game seems closer than it really was - we were up 20+ for large stretches, up 16 with 5 minutes to play, and up 10 with 2 minutes to play before a dubious Porzingis T caused a bit of an unravelling. The GSW game, we were up double digits for most of the second half, entered the 4th +11, and they tied it with 2:18 to go. I think you can question our crunch-time execution on some of those, particularly since the Warriors all but sat back the last 1:30 trying to gift us the game, but we kept on running bad plays and couldn't seize it.

Our first rematch vs Milwaukee tomorrow night is the first real Test game since that west coast swing, and then we won't have another for over a week. From Feb 11th @ MIA to Mar 3rd vs GSW, we also have a substantial ~3 week gap between test games, though again you could include 2/27 vs PHI in there, but even so, that's 16 days. Those are some prime spots for us to slack off and heal up a bit. The 3/3 - 3/20 stretch will be a time to focus and deliver, but after that - as you note, Pablo - not many opportunities for us to really dial in and measure ourselves. I think I'd even take 4/11 vs NYK not that seriously, unless they're looking like a 2- or 3-seed with the potential to really challenge us. So with those gaps in mind, I hope Brad and Joe are formulating a longer-term rest and recovery strategy.
 
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lovegtm

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Now here's the big question: When the actual playoffs start, how do you handle Al? Is any 2 game lead a rest day?
There is ~0 chance that the Celtics do that.
a) a 2 game lead isn't much
b) they treat him like a normal player, just with reduced minutes and no b2bs.

Late 30s players have been great recently, and Al started from a very, very athletic base and also takes care of himself exceptionally well. He's been a good candidate to age well.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Maybe they had to hire Ted Wells for the investigation to be sure it game out the right way prior to releasing L2M!
 

HomeRunBaker

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Now here's the big question: When the actual playoffs start, how do you handle Al? Is any 2 game lead a rest day?
I think the "Sit Horford on B2B" for long term maintenance of a 37 yr old with 35k minutes logged in his career has somehow turned into thinking Horford isn't durable or even not durable enough to play B2Bs if he had to do so.

The last two years that he played in B2B's his numbers across the board were eithe similar or in some categories better than what they were on 1 day rest.
 

Ed Hillel

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Just. Fucking. Insane.
On replay review, the coach's challenge of the shooting foul called on Hield (IND) was deemed successful. The video clearly shows that Hield reaches forward and makes contact with the ball from behind Brown (BOS). While in contact with the ball, Hield also makes minimal contact with Brown's head, and on review that contact was correctly deemed incidental. As the rulebook makes clear, the mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul; contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to defend an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements is not considered illegal. Play resumed with IND possession, since Nesmith (IND) had imminent possession at the point of interruption.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Just. Fucking. Insane.
Guess this part of the rulebook is irrelevant:

c. To overturn a challenged event or to change the outcome of a reviewable matter via a Challenge, there must be clear and conclusive visual evidence that the initial adjudication of that aspect of the play was incorrect.


There is nothing clear, or conclusive on that replay to overturn that call. They made a completely subjective decision. Determining that contact is incidental is the definition of subjective, and thus, cannot also be clear and conclusive.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Didn't see this posted, but Lebron weighed in on this, and also used it to explain why he performs his histrionics:


View: https://twitter.com/KingJames/status/1744752476077613294?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1744752476077613294%7Ctwgr%5E23add6894e08660f5d9da2c377ece3dd051f0007%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fbleacherreport.com%2Farticles%2F10104245-lebron-james-calls-out-celtics-pacers-ending-defends-going-in-lakers-games


See what I'm saying!
‍♂️
. JB clearly got hit in the back of the head. They reviewed the play, just to reverse it and say he didn't. MAN WHAT!! Good ass game to have an ending like that. And yall see why I be going
out there when it happens