2023-24 Celtics

wade boggs chicken dinner

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What does the tournament winner get? Bragging rights? I don't really see the point to it besides 'it's something different'.
Winners get some dinero.

Yes, the only point is that it is something different. I mean would you rather watch a random Cs-ORL game in December or watch something that has minor stakes at the end? I mean that most games in December don't really mean much anyways so with regards to whether these games have a point, there's certainly an extremely low bar to hurdle.

And from the NBA perspective, if it gets any Celtics fans to watch (for example) the TOR-CHI game as part of the group play, the tournament will probably be a success in the NBA's eyes.
 

the moops

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Winners get some dinero.

Yes, the only point is that it is something different. I mean would you rather watch a random Cs-ORL game in December or watch something that has minor stakes at the end? I mean that most games in December don't really mean much anyways so with regards to whether these games have a point, there's certainly an extremely low bar to hurdle.

And from the NBA perspective, if it gets any Celtics fans to watch (for example) the TOR-CHI game as part of the group play, the tournament will probably be a success in the NBA's eyes.
I think you will see some teams rally around the "get 1/2 mill for the rookie minimum guys" sort of thing. Obviously for 50% of the NBA, the extra 1/2 mill isn't all that enticing, but it is not nothing.
 

Euclis20

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I think you will see some teams rally around the "get 1/2 mill for the rookie minimum guys" sort of thing. Obviously for 50% of the NBA, the extra 1/2 mill isn't all that enticing, but it is not nothing.
Indeed. It would be massive for Scrubb/Davison (basically double their salary for the year), and would be pretty meaningful for Walsh/Hauser/Banton/Brissett/Kornett, all of whom make less than $2.5M annually and are unlikely to ever get that generational level of wealth contract.
 

HomeRunBaker

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What does the tournament winner get? Bragging rights? I don't really see the point to it besides 'it's something different'.
It's different for the NBA but in European futbol it is some of the largest events of their season. It will catch on but it's going to take some time.
 

lovegtm

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It's different for the NBA but in European futbol it is some of the largest events of their season. It will catch on but it's going to take some time.
Yes, I like that the league is trying to bootstrap it into mostly having its own intrinsic motivation, rather than linking it to the regular season.

To a large degree, it will end up having the value that players and fans attach to it, which is similar to how majors work in golf/tennis: there's nothing different about them, but everyone shows up and goes all out because of the prestige.

It's possible to imagine the tournament acquiring a prestige that is lower than winning a title, but higher than making the playoffs, or even advancing to the Conference Finals or something.
 

JCizzle

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Yes, I like that the league is trying to bootstrap it into mostly having its own intrinsic motivation, rather than linking it to the regular season.

To a large degree, it will end up having the value that players and fans attach to it, which is similar to how majors work in golf/tennis: there's nothing different about them, but everyone shows up and goes all out because of the prestige.

It's possible to imagine the tournament acquiring a prestige that is lower than winning a title, but higher than making the playoffs, or even advancing to the Conference Finals or something.
If CP3 wins it in the first year, I think it's doomed to fail as the memes roll-out from all corners of the internet.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Will all the games on the Friday after Thanksgiving, for example, be tourney games? I'm not really convinced about this amounting to much of anything all that fun because they're regular season / tourney games, which is really different from the FA Cup or Champions League, etc. Having scheduled tournament days where all the games are In-Season games could make things more exciting though.

Also, the In-Season Tournament is about as stale as name as possible for the hip and cool NBA. Shoulda called it the Larry Bird Cup and had an awesome trophy made or some shit.
 

benhogan

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So basically whether you think this in-season tournament is a good idea or not comes down to whether you're a European soccer fan, right?
Ha. I hear the comp a lot but it's not really close to equivalency.

Winning the UEFA Champions League or
the Premiership Table are both spectacular accomplishments (I'd say each equates to an NBA Championship)

The FA Cup (English pro teams tournament) is worth less than the 2 above but will still be more prestigious than winning the NBA's in-season tournament IMO. But I still expect the NBA in-season tournament to be a success, and I'm looking forward to it.

Man City won the treble this year (all 3 of the above). That's like an NBA team going back-to-back.

European Football had a few other in-season tournaments, but don't follow as close as I use to when I lived in London.
 

Jimbodandy

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Ha. I hear the comp a lot but it's not really close to equivalency.

Winning the UEFA Champions League or
the Premiership Table are both spectacular accomplishments (I'd say each equates to an NBA Championship)

The FA Cup (English pro teams tournament) is worth less than the 2 above but will still be more prestigious than winning the NBA's in-season tournament IMO. But I still expect the NBA in-season tournament to be a success, and I'm looking forward to it.

Man City won the treble this year (all 3 of the above). That's like an NBA team going back-to-back.

European Football had a few other in-season tournaments, but don't follow as close as I use to when I lived in London.
I love the new shit and welcome change in general. Also Silver is the best commissioner in any sport in my lifetime so IASWT. Just making an observation.
 

lovegtm

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So basically whether you think this in-season tournament is a good idea or not comes down to whether you're a European soccer fan, right?
This is fair. There are a number of European soccer fans working for the NBA, and it seems clear that they think, based on their fandom experience, that US fans will like this.

Running a sports league is all about making small iterative improvements over time, so I like that Silver and co are trying to steal what they see as engaging elements in European soccer.
 

benhogan

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This is fair. There are a number of European soccer fans working for the NBA, and it seems clear that they think, based on their fandom experience, that US fans will like this.

Running a sports league is all about making small iterative improvements over time, so I like that Silver and co are trying to steal what they see as engaging elements in European soccer.
I wonder if Saudi/PIF is considering Professional Basketball (after strong forays into golf/soccer)?

I could see them starting their own league. Then proceed to buy the best HS talent & give NBA players (like Harden) other avenues.
 

rguilmar

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Jul 16, 2005
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Ha. I hear the comp a lot but it's not really close to equivalency.

Winning the UEFA Champions League or
the Premiership Table are both spectacular accomplishments (I'd say each equates to an NBA Championship)

The FA Cup (English pro teams tournament) is worth less than the 2 above but will still be more prestigious than winning the NBA's in-season tournament IMO. But I still expect the NBA in-season tournament to be a success, and I'm looking forward to it.

Man City won the treble this year (all 3 of the above). That's like an NBA team going back-to-back.

European Football had a few other in-season tournaments, but don't follow as close as I use to when I lived in London.
This mid season tournament is very different from anything in Europe and lacks the interesting aspects of those competitions. These leagues don’t have playoffs with the league champion essentially being what we would call the team with the best regular season record, so the tournaments provide something different. Beyond that, the European competitions bring together the best teams from different countries that otherwise would never play each other- Manchester United, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and so on- which makes the Champions League so intriguing. We don’t really have any equivalents here in the US because of the dominance of the American sports leagues.

The national tournaments like the FA Cup are also very different. All professional teams enter, which in England is four different tiers. It would be like a single elimination tournament with all baseball teams, from single A up to the major leagues. Again, this brings together teams who would never play each other and also has the local spectacle of a huge club like Barcelona playing at a rec level field with a 2,000 capacity stadium in a small town. Also because of the knockout nature of the tournaments and the financial dominance of very few clubs, these tournaments give the also-ran clubs a chance at a trophy. In Spain’s Copa del Rey, the last two years have seen clubs like Real Betis (one La Liga title), Valencia (more likely to be relegated than ever win another La Liga title), and Osasuna (zero trophies in their history) make the final.

Maybe the only thing close to what the NBA is doing that I can think of is the Spanish Supercopa, which is their equivalent of the Community Shield (a glorified friendly in England that is played between last year’s Premier League and FA Cup champs). Spain added two clubs to make it a tournament, moved it to the middle of the season, and dumped in Saudi Arabia all while lining the pockets of the former Mr. Shakira, Gerard Pique. Nothing about it made sense, but it somehow is interesting.

TL;DR there is not much in common with European tournaments. I’ll slink back over to Breakfast with Gazza where I belong now. I love the content here and lurk in the Cellar pretty often.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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To me, the Cup is simply a response to the idea that the season is too long and that December games are boring.

With the group play all in the same days and the final 8 in Vegas, there’s another reason to watch, get a headline, check the standings, etc. It seems impossible it won’t at least accomplish that.

After that, it’s on the players. It will only take a couple big names going all out to win a group play game to get the other guys hyped up.

Look at the WNBA - they just finished their cup and a bunch of the highlights found their way into my feed, when there’s no way regular season games would have done that.

I think it’s fun, and I think the Vegas games will be a blast. Every great athlete likes to show off for a new crowd.
 

lexrageorge

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The tournament adds some intrigue into already scheduled games in December, and will certainly adjust how teams, coaches, and players handle load management of their stars or older veteran players. Players seem to be bought into it and we definitely should not undersell the attractiveness of Vegas to many of them. And the format is such that tweaks are easily made in future seasons based on what the league learns this time around.
 

Jeff Van GULLY

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Beyond the players money, I would love the winner of the tournament/cup to get an automatic 4 seed (guaranteed home court in first round) or lottery pick. For those teams that win that are already a 1-4 seed at end of the regular season, they automatically get the lottery pick (14th).
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Beyond the players money, I would love the winner of the tournament/cup to get an automatic 4 seed (guaranteed home court in first round) or lottery pick. For those teams that win that are already a 1-4 seed at end of the regular season, they automatically get the lottery pick (14th).
If they want to increase the incentives and really get teams to buy-in, it would be interesting to give the winning team an extra salary slot that doesn't count towards the luxury tax for the remainder of the year. Maybe slightly under taxpayer MLE (currently $5M).
 

The Social Chair

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I wonder if Saudi/PIF is considering Professional Basketball (after strong forays into golf/soccer)?

I could see them starting their own league. Then proceed to buy the best HS talent & give NBA players (like Harden) other avenues.
Silver is probably going to let the Saudi's buy NBA teams to avoid this... IF they are even interested in basketball.


They could take the league's top talent overnight. PGA doesn't have an artificial salary max like the NBA, and there are way less players on a team than soccer.

Unfortunately, I don't think NBA stars would have any moral objections to playing over there.

View: https://twitter.com/Giannis_An34/status/1691908731444015507
 

Ale Xander

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I'm kind of pissed the Christmas game is on the road. Means the other games in that stretch probably are too.
 

RedOctober3829

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Bold is part of the in-season tournament. The gap in the December schedule is the knockout round. 4 ABC games including Super Bowl Sunday matinee in Miami, Saturday primetime games with the Knicks and Suns, and a Sunday matinee in the Garden against the Warriors. The Lakers home game is a Thursday night TNT game. That 4 game WC road trip around Christmas is tough.

October
24 at Knicks 7:00 ESPN
27 vs. Miami 7:30 ESPN
30 at Washington 7:00

November
1 vs. Indy 7:30
4 at Nets 8:00
6 at Minnesota 8:00
8 at Philly 7:00
10 vs. Nets 7:30 ESPN
11 vs. Toronto 7:00
13 vs. Knicks 7:30
15 at Philly 7:30 ESPN
17 at Toronto 7:30
19 at Memphis 8:00
20 at Charlotte 7:00
22 vs. Milwaukee 7:30 ESPN
24 at Orlando 2:30 NBA TV
26 vs. Atlanta 6:00
28 vs. Chicago 7:30

December
1 vs. Philly 7:30
12 vs. Cleveland 7:30
14 vs. Cleveland 7:30
15 vs. Orlando 7:30
17 vs. Orlando 3:00
19 at GSW 10:00 TNT
20 at Sacramento 10:00
23 at Clippers 3:30
25 at Lakers 5:00 ABC
28 vs. Detroit 7:30
29 vs Toronto 7:30
31 at San Antonio 7:00

January
2 at OKC 8:00
5 vs. Utah 7:00
6 at Indiana 7:00
8 at Indiana 7:00
10 vs. Minnesota 7:00
11 at Milwaukee TNT
13 vs. Houston 7:00
15 at Toronto 7:30
17 vs. SAS 7:30
19 vs. Denver 7:30 ESPN
21 at Houston 7:00
22 at Dallas 8:30
25 at Miami 7:30 TNT
27 vs. Clippers 7:00
29 vs. NO 7:30
30 vs. Indiana 7:30 TNT

February
1 vs. Lakers 7:30 TNT
4 vs. Memphis 6:00 ESPN
7 vs Atlanta 7:30 ESPN
9 vs. Washington 7:30
11 at Miami 2:00 ABC
13 at Nets 7:30
14 vs. Nets 7:30
22 at Chicago 8:00
24 at Knicks 8:30 ABC
27 vs Philly 7:30 TNT

March
1 vs. Dallas 7:30 ESPN
3 vs. GSW 3:30 ABC
5 at Cleveland 7:00
7 at Denver 10:00 TNT
9 at Phoenix 9:30 ABC
11 at Portland 10:30 NBA TV
12 at Utah 9:00
14 vs. Phoenix 7:30 TNT
17 at Washington 6:00
18 vs. Detroit 7:30
20 vs. Milwaukee 7:30 ESPN
22 at Detroit 7:00
23 at Chicago 8:00
25 at Atlanta 7:30
28 at Atlanta 7:30
30 at New Orleans 5:00

April
1 at Charlotte 7:00
3 vs. OKC 7:30
5 vs. Sacramento 7:30
7 vs. Portland 6:00
9 at Milwaukee 7:30 TNT
11 vs. Knicks 7:30 TNT
12 vs. Charlotte 7:30
14 vs. Washington 1:00
 

Ale Xander

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Bucks is on Blackout Wednesday. THAT should be fun. Hope the MBTA is running well.
 

ifmanis5

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benhogan

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Silver is probably going to let the Saudi's buy NBA teams to avoid this... IF they are even interested in basketball.


They could take the league's top talent overnight. PGA doesn't have an artificial salary max like the NBA, and there are way less players on a team than soccer.

Unfortunately, I don't think NBA stars would have any moral objections to playing over there.

View: https://twitter.com/Giannis_An34/status/1691908731444015507
Yea well put.

The NBA artificially caps the superstars' years & $$$, control rookie pay & where they play for years, & shut out 18yr olds from even getting a chance to play.

Silver would be wise to go get PIF and sell them an expansion team (with a 20yr non-compete deal).
I could see the Saudis just creating an International Super Hoop League (Euro/Asian Divisions).
1. Pay billions to bring back Luka, Joker, Giannis, Embiid, etc.
2. Pays millions to sign the 10-15 best 18yr olds and backfill the rest of the teams.
3. Do a shorter, less intense schedule, and plenty of players would be sprinting overseas.

I'm not sure if PIF has an interest in basketball but that's not really why they are buying themselves into golf/soccer.
Hoops, with its international stars & appeal, could accomplish a lot of their sports-washing ambitions.
 

HomeRunBaker

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35 National TV games is good.
View: https://twitter.com/BrettSiegelNBA/status/1692258239604248846

This is less good but at least it's not the end of the season I guess.
View: https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1692270173506707956

Washington, Houston, and the Celtics have the most back to backs in the 2nd quarter of the season (12/15-1/25) with six. So the Celtics have the most road games and most back to backs in that 5-6 weeks of play that is often the most deteriminative.
Most determinative of what? What??
 

Jakarta

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Most determinative of what? What??
Most determinative of who will be in first place on 1/25.

I assume the actual thinking is this is the period of time when teams start to gel annd/or push starters a bit harder after the first 6 weeks of the year, but before load management increases in the second half of the year. Could just as easily make the same argument for other points in the year (Jan-ASB).
 

lovegtm

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Honestly, my conclusion from last season is "fuck homecourt, its importance rounds to 0 relative to health and team gelling."

Joe should roll out as many Kornet-Brissett-PP lineups as he needs to. Just keep the main guys healthy and in a groove.

"Oh noes, we are the 4th seed!" Go win an extra game on the road; not like you haven't done it a million times before.
 

lovegtm

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Apr 30, 2013
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35 National TV games is good.
View: https://twitter.com/BrettSiegelNBA/status/1692258239604248846

This is less good but at least it's not the end of the season I guess.
View: https://twitter.com/HPbasketball/status/1692270173506707956

Washington, Houston, and the Celtics have the most back to backs in the 2nd quarter of the season (12/15-1/25) with six. So the Celtics have the most road games and most back to backs in that 5-6 weeks of play that is often the most deteriminative.
Honestly, my conclusion from last season is "fuck homecourt, its importance rounds to 0 relative to health and team gelling."

Joe should roll out as many Kornet-Brissett-PP lineups as he needs to. Just keep the main guys healthy and in a groove.

"Oh noes, we are the 4th seed!" Go win an extra game on the road; not like you haven't done it a million times before.
 

BigSoxFan

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May 31, 2007
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Honestly, my conclusion from last season is "fuck homecourt, its importance rounds to 0 relative to health and team gelling."

Joe should roll out as many Kornet-Brissett-PP lineups as he needs to. Just keep the main guys healthy and in a groove.

"Oh noes, we are the 4th seed!" Go win an extra game on the road; not like you haven't done it a million times before.
And they often seem to play flat at home, for whatever reason, which further reduces my desire to press for home court advantage.
 

gattman

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Jul 15, 2005
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Yea well put.

The NBA artificially caps the superstars' years & $$$, control rookie pay & where they play for years, & shut out 18yr olds from even getting a chance to play.

Silver would be wise to go get PIF and sell them an expansion team (with a 20yr non-compete deal).
I could see the Saudis just creating an International Super Hoop League (Euro/Asian Divisions).
1. Pay billions to bring back Luka, Joker, Giannis, Embiid, etc.
2. Pays millions to sign the 10-15 best 18yr olds and backfill the rest of the teams.
3. Do a shorter, less intense schedule, and plenty of players would be sprinting overseas.

I'm not sure if PIF has an interest in basketball but that's not really why they are buying themselves into golf/soccer.
Hoops, with its international stars & appeal, could accomplish a lot of their sports-washing ambitions.
I think a middle road may be PIF buying into/owning an expansion team, and (call this crazy) hosting the in season tournament. Perhaps it gets truncated or w fewer teams but it’s a huge potential revenue generator.
 

benhogan

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I think a middle road may be PIF buying into/owning an expansion team, and (call this crazy) hosting the in season tournament. Perhaps it gets truncated or w fewer teams but it’s a huge potential revenue generator.
It would be in the NBA's owners' best interests to take PIF $$$.
 

RorschachsMask

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Media day is in less than a week, they play their first preseason game in 12 days, and my hype level is getting damn high. Feels good to make this thread.

View: https://twitter.com/GwashburnGlobe/status/1706842912686846067

Brogdon, according to two NBA sources, was upset about nearly being traded. He also spent the summer rehabilitating his elbow injury, apparently without surgery. Stevens acknowledged Brogdon’s displeasure but said it is being resolved.

“Of course, and I would say he had every right to feel (upset),” Stevens said. “We said that this summer. But he’s a real pro and so we’ve had several discussions. He’s looking forward to getting started. We’re looking forward to getting started and here we go.”