2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread
- Thread starter BigSoxFan
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Shai-Luka-Kawhi-Paolo-Giannis
Hali-Mitchell-Ant-Chet-Jokic
Jrue-D White-Brown-Tatum-Tingus
And an extra, Fox-J Dub-PG-Chet-Joel
ESPN fills the ASB void by calling around to see which NBA coaches can still dunk.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39559787/when-nba-coach-dunking-more-highlight-does-add-respect-appreciation
Main practitioner is Darvin Ham, they list others who can including Udoka.
To spare you the scrolling, here's the Mazzulla snippet at the end:
That would be quite the vertical for him. But at least we know he still plays during practices / shootaround.
https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/39559787/when-nba-coach-dunking-more-highlight-does-add-respect-appreciation
Main practitioner is Darvin Ham, they list others who can including Udoka.
To spare you the scrolling, here's the Mazzulla snippet at the end:
Boston's Joe Mazzulla, the league's youngest head coach at 35, also isn't certain whether he can still dunk and hasn't tried in years.
Mazzulla, who does jiu-jitsu to stay in shape and sharpen his mental focus, points out that dunking was "never a big part of my game" as a 6-2 point guard at West Virginia. Competitiveness was, though, and that hasn't changed over time. Mazzulla mulled the possibility of dunking again for a few seconds.
"If somebody challenged me enough," Mazzulla told ESPN, "I probably could."
That would be quite the vertical for him. But at least we know he still plays during practices / shootaround.
JJ lit into Doc today.
View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1759966158009077790
JJ Redick calls out his former head coach Doc Rivers, who he will be replacing on ESPN/ABC's NBA Finals coverage. "I've seen the trend for years. The trend is always making excuses. Doc, we get it. Taking over a team in the middle of a season is hard... it's always an excuse. It's always throwing your team under the bus... there's never accountability with that guy."
View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1759966158009077790
JJ Redick calls out his former head coach Doc Rivers, who he will be replacing on ESPN/ABC's NBA Finals coverage. "I've seen the trend for years. The trend is always making excuses. Doc, we get it. Taking over a team in the middle of a season is hard... it's always an excuse. It's always throwing your team under the bus... there's never accountability with that guy."
It's pretty embarrassing how sanitized commentary has become, where JJ says something that has been gospel on this board for years — that Doc throws his players under the bus all the time and never takes accountability — and now ESPN has gone out and grabbed DOC's KID to respond. And his argument for Doc taking accountability is that he's the one that gets fired.
View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1760054420073832757?s=20
Actually, Austin, getting fired is NOT taking accountability. It's just ... getting fired. Pretty sure Doc never said anything resembling "I wasn't good," and having your kid go on TV to defend you is sort of the opposite of accountability.
I mean, fuck, in this very thread we have Doc not taking accountability for getting his predecessor fired and TAKING HIS JOB.
Whether you think Doc is a good coach or not, his statements are out there in public and even when he sort of takes accountability, it's always just an entree into ripping the players. Like this:
View: https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1760054420073832757?s=20
Actually, Austin, getting fired is NOT taking accountability. It's just ... getting fired. Pretty sure Doc never said anything resembling "I wasn't good," and having your kid go on TV to defend you is sort of the opposite of accountability.
I mean, fuck, in this very thread we have Doc not taking accountability for getting his predecessor fired and TAKING HIS JOB.
Whether you think Doc is a good coach or not, his statements are out there in public and even when he sort of takes accountability, it's always just an entree into ripping the players. Like this:
Yet there are people who think Doc is still a good NBA head coach and would be preferable to whomever is running their team. With Vaughn gone, I am not sure which teams that might be...
I'm surprised Pat Bev's series of tweets weren't put in here which were way more embarrassing than what Austin said.
"This Man Doc actually saved your career. Started you when no one else wanted 2. And u retire go on TV and say that.
@jj_redick"
When called out by Redick saying that he had multiple offers for the same money and to start, Beverley then responded with....something that has nothing to do with anything?
"Why didn’t u take it then? U was comfy in your role with team. And don’t just say LA"
Of course neither Rivers or PatBev actually address what Redick is saying because it's 100% true
"This Man Doc actually saved your career. Started you when no one else wanted 2. And u retire go on TV and say that.
@jj_redick"
When called out by Redick saying that he had multiple offers for the same money and to start, Beverley then responded with....something that has nothing to do with anything?
"Why didn’t u take it then? U was comfy in your role with team. And don’t just say LA"
Of course neither Rivers or PatBev actually address what Redick is saying because it's 100% true
A friend of mine and I were texting about this and he said he thought Beverley is a troll and was just trolling....
Honestly, I think he's a really stupid guy who thinks he's smart. There's 0 doubt in my mind that he wrote that second tweet and thought he completely owned Redick.
There was an article about labor relations a couple of years ago on ESPN, where he was cited as someone running his mouth so much that other players had to tell him to shut the fuck up and respect the union leader. I can't imagine how unruly and stupid someone has to be to get that reaction
Seems possible Josh Giddey may deserve this title, but sources on that seem to have gone quiet. This is no defense of PatBev, to be clear!
That could end up going down as one of the biggest free agency blunders of the 21st century, but it hasn't killed them yet. They don't make the Kyrie move if they retain Brunson, and Kyrie is still giving Dallas probably 95% what Brunson was capable of. It is still disastrous in the longterm because of the assets given up, disparate contracts (Kyrie look he'll cost Dallas about 3/116, compared to the 4/55 bargain that would've been Brunson), the 4 year age difference, and the ever-ticking time bomb that is Kyrie Irving, but I don't know if the on court impact is that significant just yet.
Giving up on KP and trading him for salary filler (Dinwiddie and Bertans) looks just as bad, and they haven't come close to filling his potential offensive impact.
As you note, the comparison isn't Kyrie vs. Brunson: it's Kyrie vs. Brunson, DFS, the players they could get with the salary differential, and the players they could get with those assets. Honestly, they could maybe be starting Brunson, Jrue Holiday, and Luka all together right now without that deal. Or Marcus Smart along with those guys. I can probably think of others.
Maybe, but I don't know that that makes them materially better than they are right now (I think they'd still be stuck in the 2nd tier in the west, solidly behind the top 4), and it's really an open question as to whether or not Brunson would've enjoyed the same breakout play during his 2 seasons with the Knicks had he remained in Dallas playing in the heliocentric offense that is Luka Doncic.
What have sources said about Giddey? I thought the undisputed cringiest award would go to Josh Primo.
If this is true (that swapping Kyrie for Brunson, Jrue, and DFS leaves them out of the top tier in the West), that's an evaluation of Luka more than anything. Those are some really good players, and if you're ostensibly a top-5 guy, you'd want to see more oomph from getting those guys around you. Giannis + Jrue + one other scorer + some defensive role players is a proven elite regular season team and title contender.
I don't even disagree with you that much, I just think it shows how big the gap between Luka and other elite players is, if true.
Porzingis, for being a really fucking good basketball player, sure has been traded for a bunch of not much in his career.
Dallas got him for the 21st pick in the 2021, a top 10 protected pick that is likely to convey this year, and salary filler
Washington got him for Dinwiddie and one of the worst contracts in the league in Bertans
Boston got him and a couple picks for Smart
Dallas got him for the 21st pick in the 2021, a top 10 protected pick that is likely to convey this year, and salary filler
Washington got him for Dinwiddie and one of the worst contracts in the league in Bertans
Boston got him and a couple picks for Smart
He's played for three of the most dysfunctional organizations in the league before coming to Boston. I was kind of worried about his attitude issues at his previous spots when the Celtics acquired him, but by the time the season started, I had convinced myself he was just stuck in bad situations--he's been nothing but wonderful so far this season and it would seem impossible to consider him a losing player.
I'm skeptical of Luka's ability to positively impact and elevate his teammates offensively, and obviously his defense is a bigger liability for him than any other top 10 player. This is still a minority opinion among followers of the NBA, but I'm very happy we have Tatum instead of Doncic.
I think it’s less about talent for talent and more about opportunity cost. In order to go from a 2nd tier team in the west two years ago to a second tier team now, they traded a shitload of assets. Now they don’t have much left to improve a very flawed roster.
All their moves look like they’re plugging holes in a sinking ship. They lose Brunson in FA, then trade useful players and picks for Kyrie. They trade for Christian Wood, doesn’t work out, then they have to draft Derrick Lively - he’s pretty good, but still raw, so they have to trade a pick for Gafford. They trade away DFS in the Kyrie trade leaving a hole on the wing, so they give up a pick to sign Grant Williams, who doesn’t work out, so they trade him and another pick for PJ Washington.
It’s paying a ton of resources to tread water, and the original sin is not signing Brunson. If they keep him in the Kyrie role, they could use all that powder on another big move.
Luka is a top 10 offense by himself. I think Jrue for Kyrie alone would make Dallas better, but DFS and Brunson don’t really do anything. Realistically the way to build a team around Luka is by getting great defensive players. I think both Kyrie and Brunson are awful fits in terms of actually building a top contender, unless one of them is willing to come off the bench
Agreed.
I think you'll get a handful of supporters around here with that view.
Hauling On-Off over here from the DeRozan nonsense.
When you're a First Team All-NBA player either your +/- (2.2) or your On-Off (1.6) has to be exceptional.
Neither has been for Luka. It's screaming something is wrong with either his defense or an inability to make teammates better.
His counting stats are absurd, he should be running up the score in games, but he hasn't over his career.
Players like Joker, Giannis, Tatum, Embiid, SGA, Kawhi, KD, Bron all run the score up when they play & their teams usually suffer when they are off.
Hmmm...I'm skeptical of any player's ability to carry an NBA team without another very good scorer. It's fun to say that Brunson would be "redundant" or that Luka is "heliocentric", but there are still 12-15 minutes/game that Luka isn't playing, and a lot of possessions when he is playing where you'd like another guy out there.
Without another lead scorer, the ceiling is usually something like peak LeBron dragging crap teams to Finals--you can get there, especially when your conference is weak, but you're going to get smoked.
Peak Giannis + Jrue with no Middleton came pretty close in 2022, but they were lucky to take the Celtics to 7, and scoring was a slog.
This is very fair, and I don't like minimizing the car crash that has been the Dallas FO decision-making since their title (other than drafting Luka), but I'm struck by the following that impacts how Dallas failing to re-sign Brunson is viewed:
-As noted above, I really don't think Brunson develops into an all-star in Dallas. 4/55 (or whatever the numbers would have been) would still have been well worth it, but not exactly the best deal in the league. His numbers (and age) his last year in Dallas were nearly identical to what Austin Reaves is currently averaging this season, and since Reaves contract' is also nearly identical (4/56), it's worth nothing that it's a good deal, but not the greatest bargain in the league.
-Kyrie has been surprisingly effective, although we all know it's just a matter of time (and he has already missed 20+ games).
People say this kind of thing, but over the last few years Dallas has been 9th, 15th and 6th in offensive rating. He's excellent, but not exactly prime Curry or Jokic in that his mere presence guarantees a top offense. There are absolutely ways to build a great team around him (and Dallas has failed to do so, even in the best case Kyrie is a crummy running mate), but a byproduct of Tatum being a far more well-rounded player is that it's much easier/simpler to surround him with quality supporting stars and role players.
What is surprising about Kyrie being an effective player? When has he not been?
Dallas led the league in Offensive Efficiency 4 years back when Porzingis was there and the Mavs were starting Offensive jaugermauts Dorian Finney-Smith and Dwight Powell. The Mavs offense has been lethal this year with Doncic and Kyrie on the floor together.
He's always an extremely effective [offensive] player, until he isn't. I can't be alone in expecting him to have forced a trade by this point, or found some other reason to act out. He has missed a lot of time to injury, so maybe that's just how things will go. It's hard to distinguish yourself as an unreliable star when Ben Simmons, James Harden and Kawhi Leonard are still around, but Kyrie is special.
That was 4 years ago, and with Porzingis. Kyrie was part of a #1 offense three years ago in Brooklyn, which is just as relevant. Despite the counting stats, Luka is not on the same level as prime Steph (top 3 offenses for 5 straight years) or Jokic (top 7 offenses for 7 straight years before an odd dip this season, and with nobody anywhere near as talented offensively as Kyrie), to the point where his mere presence makes for a top offense.
I’m thinking he’s referring to Giddey starting dating his fiancé when she was 17. And I’l up your Primo with Derrick Rose, who I assume is still in the league. His gang rape makes dead Kobe blush.
Jesus is that still a thing? Comparing a 19 yr old dating someone 3-4 years younger with gang rapes and whatever it is that Primo does? I thought there was something else about Giddey that made him creepy that I missed.
Warriors v Lakers on TNT tonight. Lebron out with a sore ankle. Not such a great look right after the all star break.
Yeah, this is really bad. I didn't notice any tweak or anything during the game, which makes sense since they were essentially walking through the game.
I assume people are bringing him up because he was under investigation for sleeping with a then-16-year-old, and so it's top of mind for those following NBA news, at least until the next time Ja Morant goes off the deep end.
In a league where dozens of active players have had multiple domestic violence arrests and even some convictions, I have a hard time really giving Giddey some sort of distinction for shittiness, even if we all agree a 16yo can't / shouldn't be able to legally consent, because we ought to discourage adults from sleeping with them as a matter of social policy. If I'm ranking harms, call me when there's widespread outrage at Kevin Porter Jr for beating his wife beyond recognition, outrage sufficient that he can't hold a job in the league. Hell, he'd have been shitcanned from the NFL for that, and when you're worse than the NFL... Perk is still on TV despite this, which wasn't even his only incident. At least the Celtics cut Jabari Bird, but he also wasn't a starter on a title-winning team, so clearly we need to compromise our moral standards in such cases, right? Sigh.
Wait...is that Giddey thing true? I know about the 17 year old thing, I had no idea that they are now engaged?
This is complete gossip and may not be factual at all but word on the streets down in Southern California is that Giddey and the girl had been dating for a while when that clip went viral. When the authorities looked into it, the family allegedly declined to cooperate given their ongoing relationship and it was dropped.
Again, this could be total BS but it does track with the story dying quickly after it blew up over the fall. You have to assume that if Giddey was actually doing something wrong that we would know about it by now.
Again, this could be total BS but it does track with the story dying quickly after it blew up over the fall. You have to assume that if Giddey was actually doing something wrong that we would know about it by now.
We do know about it. He was dating/sleeping with an underage girl.
Setting aside the morality of a 19 year old dating a 16 year old (the ages when they supposedly got together) - and its not that uncommon - if the girl's family is declining to pursue any action against him and they are allegedly still together, it feels like a non-story.
That said, this is all hearsay so one or all of the important parts of this story may be inaccurate. Again the only reason I am repeating is that Giddey came up here as cringe and I thought the context might explain why the story kind of died.
And remember Giddy was 19 when she was 16. Not to say he was right for this, he also met the girl in an over 18 club, so he had no reason to believe she was 16, and supposedly he found out the next day and stopped the relationship.
Back to basketball...
OKC would be better off playing Hayward or Isiah Joe.
Let Giddey hang at da Club & trade him this Summer
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GuuRdbHRl4
OKC would be better off playing Hayward or Isiah Joe.
Let Giddey hang at da Club & trade him this Summer
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GuuRdbHRl4
Giddey isnt bad at all….he’s really good. He’s also a real bad fit for that Thunder team as constructed. Someone is going to get to buy low on him one day.