2023-2024 General NBA Season Thread

HomeRunBaker

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it would be nice if he good shoot or play defense ;)

he would be better off on a rebuilder where he can learn to play NBA hoops
Huh? Learn? His BBIQ is in the Top 5% of the league and I’m being conservative. He’s playing off the ball and put in situations that don’t fit his skillset. Criticizing a 21-yr old for not being a good NBA defender sounds agenda driven….how many 21-yr olds can effectively defend grown men in this league?
 

benhogan

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Huh? Learn? His BBIQ is in the Top 5% of the league and I’m being conservative. He’s playing off the ball and put in situations that don’t fit his skillset. Criticizing a 21-yr old for not being a good NBA defender sounds agenda driven….how many 21-yr olds can effectively defend grown men in this league?
Agenda? He hasn't been very good (other than the Celtics game :mad: )

It's his 3rd year in the league and younger guys on his team are passing him, it's been odd.

Maybe he's distracted with all the off-court crap?
 

Euclis20

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Agenda? He hasn't been very good (other than the Celtics game :mad: )

It's his 3rd year in the league and younger guys on his team are passing him, it's been odd.

Maybe he's distracted with all the off-court crap?
Yeah I don't think it's that controversial - when your 4th or 5th option is both an inefficient scorer (.520 TS%) and a terrible defender, that's a problem when you look like a legit title contender otherwise. They are young enough that they can afford to wait another year on his potential (not many guys have his playmaking ability at 6'8 and 21 years old), but the current version of Giddey is absolutely a weak point for OKC.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Agenda? He hasn't been very good (other than the Celtics game :mad: )

It's his 3rd year in the league and younger guys on his team are passing him, it's been odd.

Maybe he's distracted with all the off-court crap?
The only people distracted are those who lose their shit when a HS Junior dates a college freshman. He’s going to be bad in his role so yes I agree he isn’t good in his current situation. Do you not see the skillset?
 

benhogan

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The only people distracted are those who lose their shit when a HS Junior dates a college freshman. He’s going to be bad in his role so yes I agree he isn’t good in his current situation. Do you not see the skillset?
I don't care about his off-the-court stuff if the girl/parents are cool (is that what you meant by agenda?)
His numbers are down across the board from last season.

I honestly see a quirky jumper (30% 3pt shooter over 2.5 seasons now) the form is dreadful + a clumsy defender

Teams are leaving Giddey wide open to double SGA/J Will, it's noticeable

I like his size, passing and age BUT could see OKC getting a win now veteran for him this summer.

OKC is ready to contend for numerous years and they can't just hand minutes to Giddey. There are better players on the roster.
 
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HomeRunBaker

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I don't care about his off-the-court stuff if the girl/parents are cool (is that what you meant by agenda?)
His numbers are down across the board from last season.

I honestly see a quirky jumper (30% 3pt shooter over 2.5 seasons now) the form is dreadful + a clumsy defender

Teams are leaving Giddey wide open to double SGA/J Will, it's noticeable
Noooo that wasn’t toward you at all. You seem stuck in your opinion that a young player being forced out of position is any reflection of his ability which I disagree with.
 

benhogan

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Noooo that wasn’t toward you at all. You seem stuck in your opinion that a young player being forced out of position is any reflection of his ability which I disagree with.
They can't take the ball out of SGA or J Wills hands for Josh Giddey to run/learn point. Those two are insanely good & young

Jalen leaping has left the young Aussie in the dust, it happens.
 

HomeRunBaker

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They can't take the ball out of SGA or J Wills hands for Josh Giddey to run/learn point. Those two are insanely good & young

Jalen leaping has left the young Aussie in the dust, it happens.
I know this. That has been my entire point about how some team is going to get a buy low steal bc this kid has a ton of talent that cannot be utilitized on this team. My rating for Giddey as a player is much higher than my current rating of Giddey on this OKC team if that makes sense.
 

benhogan

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I know this. That has been my entire point about how some team is going to get a buy low steal bc this kid has a ton of talent that cannot be utilitized on this team. My rating for Giddey as a player is much higher than my current rating of Giddey on this OKC team if that makes sense.
Gotcha, yea agreed, OKC has turned into a bad spot for him.
 

AMS25

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Yeah I don't think it's that controversial - when your 4th or 5th option is both an inefficient scorer (.520 TS%) and a terrible defender, that's a problem when you look like a legit title contender otherwise. They are young enough that they can afford to wait another year on his potential (not many guys have his playmaking ability at 6'8 and 21 years old), but the current version of Giddey is absolutely a weak point for OKC.
FWIW, Isaiah Joe replaced Giddey in the starting lineup to begin the second half against the Clippers tonight. Giddey played 23 minutes; Joe played 19 minutes.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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FWIW, Isaiah Joe replaced Giddey in the starting lineup to begin the second half against the Clippers tonight. Giddey played 23 minutes; Joe played 19 minutes.
The separation the Thunder put on the Clippers in the second half was impressive. That team is not too young. I don't know if they can make it out of the West but they can definitely push any of the other contenders.
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Jokic with 17-19-13 with 8 mins to go tonight on 8/8 shooting against the Wiz in 28 mins. If he played them all out for a full 48 he’d have a shot at a 30-30-30 game
 

azsoxpatsfan

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Jokic has now recorded a triple double against every team he’s ever faced, joking LBJ and Westbrook as only players to do that
 

BigMike

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Giddey isnt bad at all….he’s really good. He’s also a real bad fit for that Thunder team as constructed. Someone is going to get to buy low on him one day.
I am with you here. SGA is great, he is a ball hog as well. So having another guy on the floor with him who's main role is to be a distributor is not a great fit. I believe if he goes elsewhere he is going to end up being an 18-8-8 guy. And his shot is getting better. I have no doubt in another year or two he'll get into the upper 30s for percentage.

Presti is going to have to figure out what they want to do there. I guess they can play Joe there, and he can really shoot, but I think he's blah otherwise. Plus he's small, and it makes the team tiny when SGA is their second tallest player.

The separation the Thunder put on the Clippers in the second half was impressive. That team is not too young. I don't know if they can make it out of the West but they can definitely push any of the other contenders.

I think they could beat anyone, but I do worry they will not have enough gas left in the tank at the end of the year. They are a deep team, but they ride their big 3 hard, and Chet is going to play 40+ more games in a season this year than he has ever played before, and there is absolutely nothing behind him. An 10 day vacation was helpful as Chet and others were dragging some coming into it, but it's still 2 more hard months before they get to a more relaxed playoff schedule. And things like Daigneault playing SGA 35 minutes in a back to back in LA last month when he was visible limited with a knee issue (and played like crap), make me question whether they will know how to set the team up for success in the postseason
 

HomeRunBaker

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I am with you here. SGA is great, he is a ball hog as well. So having another guy on the floor with him who's main role is to be a distributor is not a great fit. I believe if he goes elsewhere he is going to end up being an 18-8-8 guy. And his shot is getting better. I have no doubt in another year or two he'll get into the upper 30s for percentage.

Presti is going to have to figure out what they want to do there. I guess they can play Joe there, and he can really shoot, but I think he's blah otherwise. Plus he's small, and it makes the team tiny when SGA is their second tallest player.




I think they could beat anyone, but I do worry they will not have enough gas left in the tank at the end of the year. They are a deep team, but they ride their big 3 hard, and Chet is going to play 40+ more games in a season this year than he has ever played before, and there is absolutely nothing behind him. An 10 day vacation was helpful as Chet and others were dragging some coming into it, but it's still 2 more hard months before they get to a more relaxed playoff schedule. And things like Daigneault playing SGA 35 minutes in a back to back in LA last month when he was visible limited with a knee issue (and played like crap), make me question whether they will know how to set the team up for success in the postseason
More for the Silver Dollar thread in another two months but I am not high on OKC at all come playoff time which plays much differently than the regular season. Historically we have seen young teams go through a process of failures prior to achieving postseason success with deep runs….I fully expect the same this spring with the Thunder.


Trayce Jackson-Davis with a nice game last night. 17pts in 15 mins.

Great late 2nd round pick on a dirt-cheap contract
Oh you really know how to hurt a man.
 

benhogan

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Oh you really know how to hurt a man.
We have to find something to harp on Brad about, might as well be about missing on late 2nds ;)
(I'd rather have him use 2nds on Tillman/Springer types anyway)

Warriors had an inside track with TJD's agent. I'm guessing that's the excuse that will be floated.

As far as OKC, the Western Conference is a beast, doubt we'll get pushback on that comment now... cue crickets.
Wolves, Clippers, & Thunder are ALL on First round upset alert. Imagine the playoff odds in the WC will reflect that.
 

ElUno20

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The thunder are fucking awesome. But the nba is not hard to evaluate. Teams have to go through progressions. That's what makes oct-apr "fun" but somewhat meaningless. The playoffs are different. Even super teams (save for the kd warriors) take one or two year lumps before getting over the hump.

Also, shaq should not be on tv without chuck to shit on him. He spent a segment last night saying the clippers have no experience in the playoffs as a "team" yet lauded okc as being able to come out the west with no experience just "because". Like wtf are we doing.
 

Euclis20

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The thunder are fucking awesome. But the nba is not hard to evaluate. Teams have to go through progressions. That's what makes oct-apr "fun" but somewhat meaningless. The playoffs are different. Even super teams (save for the kd warriors) take one or two year lumps before getting over the hump.

Also, shaq should not be on tv without chuck to shit on him. He spent a segment last night saying the clippers have no experience in the playoffs as a "team" yet lauded okc as being able to come out the west with no experience just "because". Like wtf are we doing.
On the bold and since this is a Celtics board, I'm legally obligated to point out that the KG/Pierce/Allen Celtics won 66 games and a title in year 1.

Agreed in general. It still blows my mind that SGA is 25 and has been the oldest of anyone in OKC's top 8 (Hayward probably changes that, but still). This team is both incredibly young and has 0 playoff experience, and with the West being what it is this year, if they win a single playoff series that would be a huge success for them.
 

Euclis20

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It feels somewhat ironic that Embiid's MVP case has actually gotten stronger in my mind (despite no longer being eligible) now that he's missed 20+ games. With him, Philly was 26-8 and on pace for 62-63 wins, basically neck and neck with the Celtics for the 1 seed. Without him, they are 6-15 and looking like they'll need the play in to make the playoffs at all (currently just 1.5 games ahead of Orlando in 7th and 2 games ahead of Miami in 8th). I know there's a lot of noise in those numbers (as has been discussed, Embiid was far more likely to play in easier games, particularly at home) and the Sixers have had some other guys miss time, but it's amazing that they look like a top 5 team with Embiid, and a bottom 5 team without him.
 

HomeRunBaker

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On the bold and since this is a Celtics board, I'm legally obligated to point out that the KG/Pierce/Allen Celtics won 66 games and a title in year 1.

Agreed in general. It still blows my mind that SGA is 25 and has been the oldest of anyone in OKC's top 8 (Hayward probably changes that, but still). This team is both incredibly young and has 0 playoff experience, and with the West being what it is this year, if they win a single playoff series that would be a huge success for them.
I’m pretty sure he is referring to “young” up and coming super teams and not veteran assembled super teams, who have performed very well in achieving deep runs. Houston with Akeem, LeBron in Miami, LeBron/AD bubble, Pierce/KG etc. The Clippers fall right into this model of teams who are both well structured along with a core who have been committed to the team goal even when losing 6 in a row out of the gate.
 

TomTerrific

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It feels somewhat ironic that Embiid's MVP case has actually gotten stronger in my mind (despite no longer being eligible) now that he's missed 20+ games. With him, Philly was 26-8 and on pace for 62-63 wins, basically neck and neck with the Celtics for the 1 seed. Without him, they are 6-15 and looking like they'll need the play in to make the playoffs at all (currently just 1.5 games ahead of Orlando in 7th and 2 games ahead of Miami in 8th). I know there's a lot of noise in those numbers (as has been discussed, Embiid was far more likely to play in easier games, particularly at home) and the Sixers have had some other guys miss time, but it's amazing that they look like a top 5 team with Embiid, and a bottom 5 team without him.
As Bill James said, not playing can reveal value that was missed, but does not in itself constitute value. So yes, Embiid provided a lot of value. Has he provided more value than in 34 games than Joker has in 54 games? I find that hard to believe.
 

benhogan

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View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6ibY3meuVc


These two came up with their TOP51.
They have some weird categories to rank BIGs, Wings, Guards (All-Star & Sub-AS)

Here's their list (not in order)

All-Stars BIGs
Joker / Embiid / Giannis / A Davis / Bam / Chet / Wemby / Porzingis / Markkanen

Sub-AS BIGs
KAT / Sabonis / Draymond Green / Allen / Zion / JJJ / Gobert / Sengun / Pascal

All-Star Guards
SGA / Haliburton / Luka / Mitchell / Harden / Brunson / Maxey / Murray / Dame / Steph / Fox / Young

Sub-AS Guards
Kyrie / McCollum / D White / Jrue / Ball

All-Star WINGs
Kawhi / Booker / PG / KD / Bron / Tatum / Ant Edwards / Butler

Sub-AS WINGs
Brown / Barnes /Jaden Williams / Ingram / Bridges / Wagner / OG / Bane
 

lovegtm

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I'm not talking about what he's been in the past, or what he might be in the playoffs if things click, or how scared I am of him heating up in crunchtime, but is are we so sure this year's Damian Lillard is better than Derrick White?
 

slamminsammya

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I'm not talking about what he's been in the past, or what he might be in the playoffs if things click, or how scared I am of him heating up in crunchtime, but is are we so sure this year's Damian Lillard is better than Derrick White?
I don't think there's any doubt white is superior in his role than Lillard is in his right now. I also feel if you moved white to Milwaukee and asked him to be 1a he'd really struggle.
 

lovegtm

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I don't think there's any doubt white is superior in his role than Lillard is in his right now. I also feel if you moved white to Milwaukee and asked him to be 1a he'd really struggle.
Yeah, he'd look great when playing with Giannis, and would not be able to run an offense on his own in the non-Giannis minutes, so you'd need another scorer. Milwaukee's defense would be a lot better.
 

ElUno20

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I’m pretty sure he is referring to “young” up and coming super teams and not veteran assembled super teams, who have performed very well in achieving deep runs. Houston with Akeem, LeBron in Miami, LeBron/AD bubble, Pierce/KG etc. The Clippers fall right into this model of teams who are both well structured along with a core who have been committed to the team goal even when losing 6 in a row out of the gate.
This isn't even a clippers thing. It's more of okc thing. I've watched the nba forever, they arent winning shit this year. Hang the regular season banner.
 

snowmanny

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It feels somewhat ironic that Embiid's MVP case has actually gotten stronger in my mind (despite no longer being eligible) now that he's missed 20+ games. With him, Philly was 26-8 and on pace for 62-63 wins, basically neck and neck with the Celtics for the 1 seed. Without him, they are 6-15 and looking like they'll need the play in to make the playoffs at all (currently just 1.5 games ahead of Orlando in 7th and 2 games ahead of Miami in 8th). I know there's a lot of noise in those numbers (as has been discussed, Embiid was far more likely to play in easier games, particularly at home) and the Sixers have had some other guys miss time, but it's amazing that they look like a top 5 team with Embiid, and a bottom 5 team without him.
The only problem with that argument is that Embiid's problem his whole career has been endurance and availability. Drafted in 2014, 428 games + 53 playoff games. Tatum: Drafted in 2017, 492 games + 93 playoff games. So, sure, MVP for the games for which he shows up energized.

Maybe next year everything will come together, but it's getting very close to looking like Philly's window was 2019.
 

Euclis20

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Yeah, he'd look great when playing with Giannis, and would not be able to run an offense on his own in the non-Giannis minutes, so you'd need another scorer. Milwaukee's defense would be a lot better.
White would look terrific if all-star level Middleton still played, but we haven't seen that guy since April 2022.

The only problem with that argument is that Embiid's problem his whole career has been endurance and availability. Drafted in 2014, 428 games + 53 playoff games. Tatum: Drafted in 2017, 492 games + 93 playoff games. So, sure, MVP for the games for which he shows up energized.

Maybe next year everything will come together, but it's getting very close to looking like Philly's window was 2019.
It would be very fitting if the peak of the process sixers was watching Kawhi's shot bounce around the rim at the buzzer.
 

benhogan

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Yeah, he'd look great when playing with Giannis, and would not be able to run an offense on his own in the non-Giannis minutes, so you'd need another scorer. Milwaukee's defense would be a lot better.
We understand White's value because we watch all of his games.
Counting stats don't capture his true value (+/- On-Off does)

1. Derrick is a defensive wrecking ball. He sprints back on D every play. It matters because he has ridiculous hands, instincts, and can block anyone.
2. He is also an excellent HELP defender in the half-court.
3. Offensively he rarely turns the ball over. He has made himself into an efficient shooter, that can also get a shot off against tough defenses by driving into the lane with his floater.

He is 29 & still improving, the definition of a late bloomer. Should have played more minutes last year and probably will play more minutes in the playoffs this season.

Dame has a ton of wear & tear on those tires. This is the best Lilliard the Bucks will ever see.
If they don't win it this year they are screwed.

Dame is a much, much better scorer (draws more attention which adds a lot of value).
White is better at every other facet of the game.

If you already have efficient scoring on your team, like Boston does, you want White.
 

HomeRunBaker

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This isn't even a clippers thing. It's more of okc thing. I've watched the nba forever, they arent winning shit this year. Hang the regular season banner.
Oh I’m 100% with you on this. I only brought the Clippers up as they are an example of those types of veteran teams who have had postseason success once put together.
 

JCizzle

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Its so far over the top that his reactions are comedic at this point. Nurse feels like a top three NBA whiner and maybe he is the most efficient at it.
I'll never forgive him for forcing the Celtics turnover in the bubble by standing so far down the court. :mad:

Uncalled of course.
 

Auger34

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Giddey isnt bad at all….he’s really good. He’s also a real bad fit for that Thunder team as constructed. Someone is going to get to buy low on him one day.
Bingo. He neees to be put on a team where he can handle the ball and isn’t just being counted on for 3’s