2022 PGA Tour

yeahlunchbox

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LIV announces their 2023 plans.

48 Players
12 Teams
14 Tournament Schedule

And, oh by the way, an additional 9 tournament International series, part of the Asian Tour, that "LIV golf league players are expected to compete in numerous International Series events..."

But I was told there was less golf and more family!

View: https://twitter.com/jamiecweir/status/1552303879425085442?s=20&t=ANR05WznjgG9xQE3DJbPFA
Besides literally everyone, who could have seen this coming! I mean the players themselves couldn't have possibly believed they'd be making that kind of money for only a handful of tournament a year right?
 

jercra

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Besides literally everyone, who could have seen this coming! I mean the players themselves couldn't have possibly believed they'd be making that kind of money for only a handful of tournament a year right?
So on the PGA TOUR they were required to play 15 events, including majors, to keep their cards and 95% of play was in the continental US. Now they have to play 14 events + "numerous" International Series events + (if allowed) up to 4 majors? And they'll have to spend a lot more time travelling all over the world? Do I have that right?
 

Comfortably Lomb

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Besides literally everyone, who could have seen this coming! I mean the players themselves couldn't have possibly believed they'd be making that kind of money for only a handful of tournament a year right?
I'm guessing their contract requires this and they all knew what they were signing up for. The money is so crazy that it makes up for loss of control.
 

Average Reds

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I'm guessing their contract requires this and they all knew what they were signing up for. The money is so crazy that it makes up for loss of control.
That’s kind of the point - all the talk about family, the time commitment and control of their schedule was all 100% bullshit.

They have every right to take the money. And we will judge them for it.
 
Interesting article at Golf Digest:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-league-format-2023-refining-business-model-turning-away-top-50-players
As the rumor mill continues with speculation, half-truths or flat-out lies about more PGA Tour players leaving for LIV, sources say the opposite problem has surfaced: There may not be enough spots left at LIV for interested players. Multiple managers from different agencies have told Golf Digest that while some openings may remain, the vast majority of the 48 league spots are spoken for—so much so that LIV has turned away multiple top-50 players who have expressed interest in a potential contract. LIV is believed to have secured additional commitments from players who will announce their decisions shortly after the conclusion of the PGA Tour season in August, and the Saudi-backed league is factoring those future commits into its numbers for next season.
That intro and this quote in particular would seem to bode well for the PGA Tour in the near future:
A source close to LIV also said that multiple players who turned down lucrative offers from LIV before the first event in London have now re-engaged discussions but are finding the offers to be significantly less than they were initially.
Quite a few quotes in the piece from LIV's president/COO - Atul Khosla, who most recently worked with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - on LIV's goal to ultimately become profitable. Which you can take with as many grains of salt as you want, but he does have some reasonable points, like the idea of selling the 12 teams to different ownership groups (insofar as I suspect there are at least 12 suckers rich people who would enjoy the personal access angle to LIV's players to pay a premium).
 

cshea

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Basically, LIV needs the International Series on the Asian Tour so players can earn world ranking points. They can't just make them optional because they need the highest ranked players to play to stengthen the field and increase the world ranking points available.

Of course, the giant elephant in the room is that by the time these events roll around, the top players OWGR's will have fallen so far that it may not matter anyways.
 

cshea

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Interesting article at Golf Digest:

https://www.golfdigest.com/story/liv-golf-league-format-2023-refining-business-model-turning-away-top-50-players

That intro and this quote in particular would seem to bode well for the PGA Tour in the near future:

Quite a few quotes in the piece from LIV's president/COO - Atul Khosla, who most recently worked with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers - on LIV's goal to ultimately become profitable. Which you can take with as many grains of salt as you want, but he does have some reasonable points, like the idea of selling the 12 teams to different ownership groups (insofar as I suspect there are at least 12 suckers rich people who would enjoy the personal access angle to LIV's players to pay a premium).
I call bullshit. They aren't turning away top 50 players.

Stenson was a symbolic FU to the tours, but they aren't taking guys like Bubba and Kokrak over Berger and Sungjae Im (just 2 random top 50 guys, no rumors for either).
 
Basically, LIV needs the International Series on the Asian Tour so players can earn world ranking points. They can't just make them optional because they need the highest ranked players to play to stengthen the field and increase the world ranking points available.

Of course, the giant elephant in the room is that by the time these events roll around, the top players OWGR's will have fallen so far that it may not matter anyways.
The No Laying Up guys have also been talking about changes to the OWGR which either have just recently been made or are about to be made (I forget which) that will mean having just a few star players in a field won't give it much of a boost; it's going to be the depth of a field that matters more than its top-line stars. Which will also go some way to curtail the impact of some of the autumn/winter exhibitions with small, elite fields - I'm thinking particularly of the Hero World Challenge, which for some reason awards ranking points and in the past has awarded quite a few of them because everyone in the field is excellent, but it also has only 20 players in it and going forward will be punished accordingly on that basis.
I call bullshit. They aren't turning away top 50 players.
FWIW, that doesn't seem to be a LIV quote - that seems to be a Golf Digest assessment from "multiple managers from different agencies". If that story is true, and LIV will shortly be entering a consolidation phase and looking to market a stable group of 48 players (and 12 consistent teams) to the world, then a) it makes sense that the Saudis might turn the tap off, at least for a while, and b) the LIV vs. PGA Tour dynamic may settle down quite a bit as well, at least in the short term. The existential threat to the Tour is the worry that anyone might bolt to LIV at any moment; if the number of places LIV is looking to fill really is approaching zero, and the offers being made to players are "significantly lower" to the point that the Tour's rewards on offer actually seem competitive, then the Tour can maybe take a deep breath and consider it's own medium-to-long-term strategy instead of having to be 100% reactive.
 

cshea

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Nornman confirms the LIV offer to Tiger was $700-$800 million.

Basically a quarter of a billion dollar play for the knockout blow to the PGA Tour.
 

Cesar Crespo

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How do you not take it? That's a shit load of money to turn down.

How much does Tiger make in endorsements and all that? How long would it take him to earn 700-800 mil outside of LIV?
 

bostonbeerbelly

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Guessing the 700-800M was a 3-4 year commitment like the other guys.

He is a billionaire, so if he is earning 10% on his investments he may be making 100-120M+ a year, plus his current endorsements, and other ventures - he could be bringing in 150-200M a year. (complete guesses)

Tiger does not need 700-800M to get involved in this. I am glad he said no.
 

Leon Trotsky

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Plus he has spent a lot of time rehabilitating his image and legacy. Good on him for seeing this would be a significant hinderance to furthering that.
 

TheGazelle

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Plus he has spent a lot of time rehabilitating his image and legacy. Good on him for seeing this would be a significant hinderance to furthering that.
Agreed. He doesn't need the money. Shunning LIV lets him show up at the majors and any other event he wants to have basically everyone cheering for him vs. going the Phil "do it for the Saudi Royal Family" Mickelson route.
 

cshea

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Agreed. He doesn't need the money. Shunning LIV lets him show up at the majors and any other event he wants to have basically everyone cheering for him vs. going the Phil "do it for the Saudi Royal Family" Mickelson route.
To be honest, I don't think that there would be much backlash if Tiger jumped. People will cheer and watch him wherever he decides to play golf. If it's LIV, people wouldn't care. Additionally, if he went, everyone would follow and the PGA Tour would essentially cease to exist.

The backlash against Mickelson is more than just taking the money. He was essentially the architect of a rival league that is seeking to take down the PGA Tour and has refered to his backers as "scary motherfuckers."
 

johnmd20

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To be honest, I don't think that there would be much backlash if Tiger jumped. People will cheer and watch him wherever he decides to play golf. If it's LIV, people wouldn't care. Additionally, if he went, everyone would follow and the PGA Tour would essentially cease to exist.

The backlash against Mickelson is more than just taking the money. He was essentially the architect of a rival league that is seeking to take down the PGA Tour and has refered to his backers as "scary motherfuckers."
This is nuts. The backlash would be overwhelming and severe. Tiger would obliterate his legacy (and decades of fun as the elder statesman of the PGA) if he went to LIV.
 

TheGazelle

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This is nuts. The backlash would be overwhelming and severe. Tiger would obliterate his legacy (and decades of fun as the elder statesman of the PGA) if he went to LIV.
I agree. I also think Tiger going to LIV would be a much, much bigger story than Phil. Phil's a big deal to golf/sports fans. Tiger is Tiger fucking Woods. That would permeate pop culture differently. Tiger would get blowtorched for going to LIV even he managed to avoid stepping in the beartraps Phil did.
 

Leon Trotsky

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I agree. I also think Tiger going to LIV would be a much, much bigger story than Phil. Phil's a big deal to golf/sports fans. Tiger is Tiger fucking Woods. That would permeate pop culture differently. Tiger would get blowtorched for going to LIV even he managed to avoid stepping in the beartraps Phil did.
Me too. Of course Tiger would be cheered by the dozens of fans at LIV events, and the couple thousand on youtube, but it would undoubtedly tarnish his icon status he has worked hard to gain back.
 

jercra

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Tiger is also a pretty big military supporter/cosplayer. I'm not sure there was any amount that would have made him go work for the Saudis.
 

Average Reds

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So is David Feherty...
I take your point, in the sense that I don’t think being a military supporter is really relevant here.

The difference (or, more pointedly, one of a thousand differences between the two examples) is that nobody gives a shit about David Feherty. Also, Feherty has always struck me as shallow and self-absorbed. The fact that he would sell out to the Saudis is disappointing, but utterly unsurprising.
 

cornwalls@6

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I take your point, in the sense that I don’t think being a military supporter is really relevant here.

The difference (or, more pointedly, one of a thousand differences between the two examples) is that nobody gives a shit about David Feherty. Also, Feherty has always struck me as shallow and self-absorbed. The fact that he would sell out to the Saudis is disappointing, but utterly unsurprising.
Utterly unsurprising. He's as vapid as they come, and his schtick of being the wacky, witty, Irishman was completely played out, to me, years ago. Good riddance.
 

ManicCompression

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I watched a bit of LIV golf highlights on YouTube because I was curious about the level of golf being played and the announcers (not Feherty) were sarcastically making fun of the team concept, like "The Aces narrowly pulled that out, I was on the edge of my seat." Generally the whole enterprise seemed to be full of people who didn't give a shit and were just going through the motions for a paycheck. Even the graphics on the telecast were terrible.

Despite all of the press around this thing, it looks like total viewership topped out at 115K. I don't think it's going to build on that. The Match with Brady had more stakes.
 

cshea

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He's basically in the prime "have your cake and eat it" spot. He's exempt into the majors for 5 more years (longer for the British), and Players (though I'd imagine he gets booted / ends up in court). He can make a shit load more money plus play all the legacy defining events.

When they start selling the teams, I would think Cam is going to be the face of an Australian team, much like Hideki would be for Japan if/when he leaves.
 

jercra

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He also doesn't care about money. This is what he said prior to last year's FedEx Cup championship, before winning The Players and The Open. He said something similar after winning The Players.
When asked to reflect on the payday in the offing next week, the laid-back Smith almost seemed unable to get his head around the huge purse.

“I’m pretty set, to be honest,” Smith said on Tuesday at Caves Valley. “I’m good with what I’ve got. I don’t know what I do [with the money], to be honest. Maybe some more fishing equipment.”