2022-2023 General Celtics thread

lovegtm

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I’m just not worried about Miami, they cannot shoot the ball, have a negative net rating/point differential. It may be last seasons team on paper, but I think we’d roll them in 5.
Even if it's harder than a gentleman's sweep, plenty of title winners have had tough 1st round opponents. If you're the better team, you nearly always make it through, and it doesn't seem to hurt title chances much.

I'm sure there will be moments of annoyance at Jimmy, but facing a healthy KD and Kyrie with no Rob last year was a much scarier proposition.
 

Eddie Jurak

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Obviously, it'll depend on the matchup for defense more than offense, IMO.

But on offense, I want to see as much of White, Brogdon, Jaylen and Tatum as possible and then TL/Al depending on matchup.

On defense, I want Smart, Jaylen, Tatum without a doubt, and then 2 of White/Grant/TL depending on matchup.
After Brown and Tatum, I really do hope the usage is lineup/matchup/situation dependent.

I don't think Smart has been himself this year, and if he cannot play at his level from last year, the case for playing him over White is weaker.

Of the 3 PGs, Brogdon is far and away the best at scoring, ballhandling, initiating the offense, but also the weakest on defense. In late game situations where the Celtics primary need is scoring, he should be out there, and while he is he should often be initiating, rather than mostly being a spot up shooter (though a little of that is obviously fine becasue he can do that, too).

I'm afraid that we won't see optimal usage of Brogdon and White in the playoffs because I don't think Mazzulla and the team have figured that out even now, 80 games in, but I hope they do get it.
 

benhogan

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After Brown and Tatum, I really do hope the usage is lineup/matchup/situation dependent.

I don't think Smart has been himself this year, and if he cannot play at his level from last year, the case for playing him over White is weaker.

Of the 3 PGs, Brogdon is far and away the best at scoring, ballhandling, initiating the offense, but also the weakest on defense. In late game situations where the Celtics primary need is scoring, he should be out there, and while he is he should often be initiating, rather than mostly being a spot up shooter (though a little of that is obviously fine becasue he can do that, too).

I'm afraid that we won't see optimal usage of Brogdon and White in the playoffs because I don't think Mazzulla and the team have figured that out even now, 80 games in, but I hope they do get it.
Your messing with sacred cows to even suggest CJM look at optimal Point Guard or Marcus Smart usage :eek:

CJM will rotate the 3 PGs, but not sure our rookie HC will go with what the analytics/health are telling us (play White a lot). Brogdon while a pretty pedestrian perimeter defender against quick PGs, has been solid switching on to frontcourt players/rebounding. With the number of 3s this team launches, you'd think they'd want MB on the floor a lot.

BUT I expect we'll continue to see Smart, gimpy or not, play the most minutes of the 3.
 

Imbricus

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Question for people on this board (it relates most to this thread, and is for an investigation I want to do, the results of which I would post in this thread):

Does anyone know of a site that has data on 3-point shooting, by team, by game, by quarter? To be clear: I'm not looking for the data on "how well has this team shot this season during the first quarter/second quarter whatever?" I've seen that data.

Rather I'm looking for game by game, so for instance (hypothetical):

Game 16, Celtics vs. Hawks, Celtics 3-point shooting
Q1: 29.4%
Q2: 33.9%
Q3: 41.2%
Q4: 37.2%

Game 17, Celtics vs. Bucks, Celtics 3-point shooting
Q1: 19.7%
Q2: 54.1%
etc. etc.

People on this board are the biggest stat nerds I know, so if this data is available, I am roughly 99.8% confident that a poster here will know where to find it!

Edit: It would additionally be useful if the number of makes/attempts is included, such as "Q1: 27.3%, 3/11"
 

Deathofthebambino

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The BRef box scores let you filter by quarter or half.
Question for people on this board (it relates most to this thread, and is for an investigation I want to do, the results of which I would post in this thread):

Does anyone know of a site that has data on 3-point shooting, by team, by game, by quarter? To be clear: I'm not looking for the data on "how well has this team shot this season during the first quarter/second quarter whatever?" I've seen that data.

Rather I'm looking for game by game, so for instance (hypothetical):

Game 16, Celtics vs. Hawks, Celtics 3-point shooting
Q1: 29.4%
Q2: 33.9%
Q3: 41.2%
Q4: 37.2%

Game 17, Celtics vs. Bucks, Celtics 3-point shooting
Q1: 19.7%
Q2: 54.1%
etc. etc.

People on this board are the biggest stat nerds I know, so if this data is available, I am roughly 99.8% confident that a poster here will know where to find it!

Edit: It would additionally be useful if the number of makes/attempts is included, such as "Q1: 27.3%, 3/11"
Chili is right. Yep, if you go the Celtics home page on B-Ref, then click on their schedule, you can then click on the box score for each game. Once in the box score, in the middle of the page, you can click on "game, Q1, Q2, half, Q3, Q4" and filter by quarters, so in the 4th quarter of game 17 against the Bulls, the C's shot 4/10 from 3....
 

Imbricus

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The BRef box scores let you filter by quarter or half.
Ah yep, I see. If anyone knows of a faster way to scrape this data (like a site that has 3-point shooting laid out, quarter by quarter, or even better yet, a site that has it in easily downloadable-to-Excel form), please let me know. But yeah, this could work for sure, thanks.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Ah yep, I see. If anyone knows of a faster way to scrape this data (like a site that has 3-point shooting laid out, quarter by quarter, or even better yet, a site that has it in easily downloadable-to-Excel form), please let me know. But yeah, this could work for sure, thanks.
nba.com team stats search let you sort by team and quarter. I don't kno38.4%w if that's what you're looking for. But if you are, Cs 3P % by quarter are:

1Q - 39.3%
2Q - 36.4%
3Q - 38.4%
4Q - 36.7%
 

kieckeredinthehead

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At this point I suspect you could work with ChatGPT to drum up something to scrape the data from bref even if you don’t code
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yeah, Python lessons to extract data from NBA.com seems kind of extra with the AI overlay.

Has anyone tried queries like this yet?
 

TripleOT

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If he steps on the floor tonight, Tatum will need to score 16 points to become the first Celtic to ever average 30 ppg for an entire season. I don’t know if the Celtics care about this. There is really no upside to playing Tatum, unless he needs to for his new shoe drop. I don’t know if the Celtics care about that either. Since Tatum loves to play, I can see him putting up a 16 point first quarter, and calling it a day.

I‘m looking forward to 30 minutes of JD Davison against this long Toronto team. If he gets to play, it will be a little taste of what his quickness and athleticism could bring to future seasons. If the four PGs in front of him aren’t available, giving JDD his first start would be a nice reward for being strongly with the program his rookie year. His quotes in the recent Athletic story about him working on his game in order to find a role in the league shows me he really gets it.

Rob played 31 minutes on Wednesday. I wonder if he gets much burn. I would like to see Kabengele against Toronto. Also, maybe Kornet can get some of his mojo back after a bunch of horrible outings. Rest TL and AL.
 

kieckeredinthehead

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Yeah, Python lessons to extract data from NBA.com seems kind of extra with the AI overlay.

Has anyone tried queries like this yet?
Not specifically, and ChatGPT won’t be able to scrape the data by itself because it doesn’t have access to the internet. But if you start by saying: “I want to scrape and summarize data from a set of pages on a single website, can you help me write code to do that if I give you the format of the data and some example urls?” it will start a productive conversation. (Or am I missing something and somebody’s already implemented an LM for nba.com or bref?)
 

lovegtm

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Not specifically, and ChatGPT won’t be able to scrape the data by itself because it doesn’t have access to the internet. But if you start by saying: “I want to scrape and summarize data from a set of pages on a single website, can you help me write code to do that if I give you the format of the data and some example urls?” it will start a productive conversation. (Or am I missing something and somebody’s already implemented an LM for nba.com or bref?)
Yeah, it should be able to produce good scraping options, and you can also ask it how to scrape best based on pasting in some of the site's HTML as you get it.
 

benhogan

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TimeLord, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks & 2 steals was about as bouncy as he has been all season.

This teams Defense is otherworldly when he and Horford share the floor
 

lovegtm

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TimeLord, 9 rebounds, 3 blocks & 2 steals was about as bouncy as he has been all season.

This teams Defense is otherworldly when he and Horford share the floor
It's funny how Hauser and Pritchard instantly become 10x more playable with Rob out there.

(Hauser was already very playable when his shot is falling, but the difference is really noticeable.)
 

Imbricus

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That was one of the most fun games to watch of the year. It's surprising too, because usually when the Celts turn the ball over 19 times and shoot 34% from three, you don't expect them to win by 19. But they were really clicking offensively and defensively (which was the most pleasant surprise). And Pritchard with his best game of the season -- man, he looked super quick, like he was playing on meth or something -- which is perfect, as unfortunately Brad will be looking to deal him in another couple of months. Sell high, sell high!
 

lovegtm

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That was one of the most fun games to watch of the year. It's surprising too, because usually when the Celts turn the ball over 19 times and shoot 34% from three, you don't expect them to win by 19. But they were really clicking offensively and defensively (which was the most pleasant surprise). And Pritchard with his best game of the season -- man, he looked super quick, like he was playing on meth or something -- which is perfect, as unfortunately Brad will be looking to deal him in another couple of months. Sell high, sell high!
Pritchard will probably turn down any extension to try and get playing time, but I'd throw something like 5/27 at him and see whether he bites, using the new rule that lets you do 5 year deals for non-max RFAs (iirc). He's only making about $5-6M on his rookie deal post-taxes/fees, so that might be hard to turn down as a small guard.

Realistically though, he probably gets moved as $4M of matching salary+slight value in whatever offseason deals the team does.

When you see how playable he is with TL behind him, you wonder how he'd look somewhere like Orlando as a small shooting guard.
 

Imbricus

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Last night it looks like Champagnie got his first minutes as a Celtic, but one thing puzzles me: why didn't the Celtics just sign Samanic? Isn't he the better player, and he had a good season in Maine. Or did they not sign him because they figured whoever they slotted in (Samanic, Champagnie) would just be gone this offseason anyway?
 

lovegtm

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Last night it looks like Champagnie got his first minutes as a Celtic, but one thing puzzles me: why didn't the Celtics just sign Samanic? Isn't he the better player, and he had a good season in Maine. Or did they not sign him because they figured whoever they slotted in (Samanic, Champagnie) would just be gone this offseason anyway?
Maybe they think Samanic is further back on the "break glass in emergency" big chart that Champagnie is on that chart for wings, just because you play more wings than bigs. They're both buried pretty deep.
 

benhogan

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Last night it looks like Champagnie got his first minutes as a Celtic, but one thing puzzles me: why didn't the Celtics just sign Samanic? Isn't he the better player, and he had a good season in Maine. Or did they not sign him because they figured whoever they slotted in (Samanic, Champagnie) would just be gone this offseason anyway?
For #15 on the roster, they needed the best wiry WING from the G-League not on a 2-way. Maybe he was the best defender/athlete amongst that archetype.

Usually, by this time of year, we start discussing "playoff rotations". But it's pretty much our TOP7 for as many minutes as possible, then use Grant/Blake/Hauser for match-up/situational purposes. Blake/Hauser have been very pleasant surprises this season and Grant has been a major dud.

#8 should have been Grant, but he's sluggish & slow. I'm not sure many teams are going to be climbing all over each other to sign Grant in RFA.
 

lovegtm

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For #15 on the roster, they needed the best wiry WING from the G-League not on a 2-way. Maybe he was the best defender/athlete amongst that archetype.

Usually, by this time of year, we start discussing "playoff rotations". But it's pretty much our TOP7 for as many minutes as possible, then use Grant/Blake/Hauser for match-up/situational purposes. Blake/Hauser have been very pleasant surprises this season and Grant has been a major dud.

#8 should have been Grant, but he's sluggish & slow. I'm not sure many teams are going to be climbing all over each other to sign Grant in RFA.
The super tax probably helps Grant re-sign with the Cs: they won't want to lose that salary slot. Agree that he's hurt his RFA prospects this year, and is almost out of the rotation. He does play Bam well, so maybe he gets some time against Miami in that matchup.
 

benhogan

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The super tax probably helps Grant re-sign with the Cs: they won't want to lose that salary slot. Agree that he's hurt his RFA prospects this year, and is almost out of the rotation. He does play Bam well, so maybe he gets some time against Miami in that matchup.
The funny part is for years we were probably 2 of the more bullish posters on Grant. He'll need a massive playoffs (last year style) to get what he reportedly turned down last summer.

This team needs a "poor man's TL", bouncy Center for that #8, 9, 10 spot next season. I wouldn't be shocked to see Grant moved in a S&T for one this summer.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Last night it looks like Champagnie got his first minutes as a Celtic, but one thing puzzles me: why didn't the Celtics just sign Samanic? Isn't he the better player, and he had a good season in Maine. Or did they not sign him because they figured whoever they slotted in (Samanic, Champagnie) would just be gone this offseason anyway?
It takes two to tango…not only what the Celtics want. This is where an agent earns his keep by getting Samanic to Utah as a young player with an opportunity to win minutes as opposed to Boston where he won’t have any opportunities.
 

Imbricus

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It takes two to tango…not only what the Celtics want. This is where an agent earns his keep by getting Samanic to Utah as a young player with an opportunity to win minutes as opposed to Boston where he won’t have any opportunities.
Ah yes. Very good point. I thought Celts had snubbed Samanic, after he put up a good season in the G League, but maybe Samanic snubbed them. He's a 15th man in Boston, but stands a chance of cracking the rotation in Utah.
 

Van Everyman

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Hauser had three dunks and flexed after the first.

Edit: I wonder if some of Grant’s struggles this year are related to The Rise of Hauser(and maybe Brogdon to some extent). You watch these kick outs to the elbow and it seemed like this year they just needed less production from the Corner Office.
 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Grant pump-faked a number of shots last night that Hauser would have been comfortable getting off. He’s much quicker than Grant and - when he’s right - capable of running off screens, etc., that Grant has no prayer of doing.

Grant’s value is in his 3pt shooting AND his defense. If he’s slow, not staying in front of people, and fouling, well, Hauser can do that.
 

lovegtm

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Hauser had three dunks and flexed after the first.

Edit: I wonder if some of Grant’s struggles this year are related to The Rise of Hauser(and maybe Brogdon to some extent). You watch these kick outs to the elbow and it seemed like this year they just needed less production from the Corner Office.
Also the rise of Al as a higher volume knock-down shooter.
 

BaseballJones

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Euclis20

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Was this out of date 30 minutes later, when Memphis finished off the Bucks? I see Boston 2nd in offensive net rating and 3rd in defensive net rating (just behind Memphis).

*edit - either way it's pretty nice, but it's worth nothing that being at the top of the league in both stats hasn't led to a historically dominant net rating as one might expect being compared with those two teams. 1st in the league is great, but those two GS teams had net ratings of +10.1 and +11.6. The Celtics are a really solid +6.5, but that's not even as good as they were last year (+7.3) and tied for just 17th best over the last decade.
 

Euclis20

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57-25, the best record for Boston since the 2009 team. Some ups and downs and concerns for the playoffs, but they made it to the end healthy (pending I guess on Jaylen's hand), with most of their top 8 playing well down the stretch, and with 6 more wins than last year. On the whole, really can't complain.
 

lovegtm

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57-25, the best record for Boston since the 2009 team. Some ups and downs and concerns for the playoffs, but they made it to the end healthy (pending I guess on Jaylen's hand), with most of their top 8 playing well down the stretch, and with 6 more wins than last year. On the whole, really can't complain.
If Milwaukee hadn't outperformed their point differential to a ridiculous degree, everyone would be saying how the Celtics had a dominant year to secure the #1 seed.

It wouldn't be true, necessarily, but it was very good season.

Now to hope TL's knees hold up...
 

HomeRunBaker

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C's first game is Saturday at 3:30 p.m. That's the only date/time I've seen.
Perfect scheduling for me. I’ll be up in CT at one of the sports books on Sat. Celtics at 3:30 and UFC begins at 5:30 with Cage Warriors on my phone starting at 4pm. Pretty much my definition of heaven.
 
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