2021-2022 Yankees Offseason Discussion

crow216

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Just spitballing, but if they were going to fire him, wouldn't they have done that before firing the coaches?
Who knows. There's also the possibility that they don't want to meet Boone's contract demands and it doesn't work out. Maybe they only want to give him 1 year but other teams are more likely to give him 2-3?

It's a mistake bringing Boone back but he's probably a pretty average manager overall who isn't going to take down a team. We didn't only win 92 games because of him. More of that is on the players and Cashman.
 

jon abbey

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When NY moved on from Torre, they did it in a half-assed way too, they offered him a lowball offer they were pretty sure he wouldn’t accept.
 

jon abbey

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Who knows. There's also the possibility that they don't want to meet Boone's contract demands and it doesn't work out. Maybe they only want to give him 1 year but other teams are more likely to give him 2-3?

It's a mistake bringing Boone back but he's probably a pretty average manager overall who isn't going to take down a team. We didn't only win 92 games because of him. More of that is on the players and Cashman.
Disagree, I think his poor bullpen management cost them a handful of games and he is the most obvious weak spot who is easily upgradeable. I think an average manager wins 95-96 games with this team, all else being equal.
 

crow216

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Disagree, I think his poor bullpen management cost them a handful of games and he is the most obvious weak spot who is easily upgradeable. I think an average manager wins 95-96 games with this team, all else being equal.
But every single manager on every team cost their team games with bad bullpen decisions. How many did he save by, for example, his usage of Holmes or Severino or Wade?
 

jon abbey

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But every single manager on every team cost their team games with bad bullpen decisions. How many did he save by, for example, his usage of Holmes or Severino or Wade?
Of course I’m not ignoring that, but overall he is a negative and needs to be upgraded.

It’s really the same as his previous job, ESPN announcer. Was he awful? No. Was he good? Also no. Should someone in one of the few most prestigious spots in their industry be better at what they do? 100 percent yes.
 

jon abbey

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IMO the leaks coming out of the Yankees FO, is making it seem like Boone (or whoever is the next manager) is nothing more than a puppet for the yankees FO, and wont be free to make their own decisions
The thing is that this isn’t actually possible because in-game situations require an actual manager, which Boone sucks at.
 

jon abbey

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Is a bat phone connected to the front office brain trust not allowed?
I don't know, but in that case, you still need one guy (in the front office) making the decisions and you might as well make them manager, or at least bench coach, and put them in the dugout.
 

jon abbey

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Again, I would be OK with Boone staying if they get him a dedicated bullpen move coach, something I have never heard of before but if they really don't want to dump Boone completely, they need to let someone else do that part of his job, because he sucks at it.
 

RedOctober3829

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The thing is that this isn’t actually possible because in-game situations require an actual manager, which Boone sucks at.
However, everything is scripted out for him in terms of lineups and other things. Boone does stink at in-game decision as a whole, but lineup construction/roster construction is all dictated from above him. He really is no more than a puppet for the front office. Cora, on the other hand, it feels like he has more of a voice in the Red Sox organization compared to what Boone has with the Yankees.
 

EvilEmpire

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I know this team has had a lot of talent over the last couple of years, but given the massive number of injuries they've had to deal with during that time with a lot of young or otherwise marginal players integrated into prominent roles, I'm not sure how an "average" manager performs.

Bullpen management isn't one of them, but I think Boone probably has some skills that are underrated.
 

EvilEmpire

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However, everything is scripted out for him in terms of lineups and other things. Boone does stink at in-game decision as a whole, but lineup construction/roster construction is all dictated from above him. He really is no more than a puppet for the front office. Cora, on the other hand, it feels like he has more of a voice in the Red Sox organization compared to what Boone has with the Yankees.
We've speculated a lot about this and I'm not sure we really know how much it is true. We know he is willing to take a lot more feedback from the front office than Girardi was, that is for sure. But I don't think we know exactly what that looks like. It's been a concern for a while though.
 

jon abbey

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However, everything is scripted out for him in terms of lineups and other things. Boone does stink at in-game decision as a whole, but lineup construction/roster construction is all dictated from above him. He really is no more than a puppet for the front office. Cora, on the other hand, it feels like he has more of a voice in the Red Sox organization compared to what Boone has with the Yankees.
Yes, I agree with this, the issue really is with his bullpen moves and his complete lack of any sense of how a game is progressing and how he needs to improvise off of the plan going into the game. He has no ability to improvise.
 

EvilEmpire

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Let's put it this way, I think there are a lot of characteristic of a manager (or any leader, really) that are difficult to change and are fairly immutable. Personality, temperament, how well you can communicate, how well you can motivate people, mentor them, or whatever. Some of those things can be improved over time, but I think mostly what you see is what you get.

I don't see managing a bullpen as one of those things. I think it is a skill that can be improved on.

If the Yankees feel like Boone has enough quality in areas that match what they really value and might be hard to develop or find in someone else, then maybe taking a chance that they can help him learn to manage a bullpen better, through whatever measures or structural changes necessary makes sense. I doubt they'll create a new bullpen move coach, but I'm sure there are several ways they could help him.

But whatever they do, I think Boone has got to be willing to take a short deal. Two years max.
 

terrynever

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They cut Boone’s balls off today, and he only had one to begin with. Billy Martin would be drunk by now and heading for Cashman’s building in Stamford.
 

jon abbey

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I don't see managing a bullpen as one of those things. I think it is a skill that can be improved on.
He has had the job for FOUR YEARS and he is still awful at it. This isn't an entry level job, this is a job managing a team with a closing window and he is a large part of the reason NY has come up short in recent years. Is he the whole reason? Obviously not.
 

jon abbey

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But in response to the rest of your post, EE, I think they love his temperament and that is why he was hired to begin with and why he hasn't been fired yet. IMO he was a mistake from day 1, I said that here then.
 

EvilEmpire

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I don't think Cashman is the type to be too sentimental and his sense of the window for this team is probably better calibrated than anyone's. If he keeps Boone, and of course he may not, I think it has to mean that they think whatever flaws they see in Boone can be mitigated or fixed.
 

jon abbey

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Boone is like the Andrew Velasquez of managers: everyone loves him as a person, he has some things he is very good at, and he is not good enough to be the manager/starting shortstop of a genuine contender. People can point to his regular season win totals but he has been badly overmatched every postseason (this season doesn't count as it was a single game with no real room for managerial input either way).
 

crow216

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Boone is like the Andrew Velasquez of managers: everyone loves him as a person, he has some things he is very good at, and he is not good enough to be the manager/starting shortstop of a genuine contender. People can point to his regular season win totals but he has been badly overmatched every postseason (this season doesn't count as it was a single game with no real room for managerial input either way).
I dislike Boone and want him gone. So I'm just playing Devil's Advocate...

Nothing Boone has done has stopped them from winning first place, thus avoiding the wild card.

When you get to the playoffs, you're ALWAYS playing with a completely different set of bullpen rules and more urgency, so no mistakes like letting Green throw in the 8th.

I guess what I'm saying is that if Boone is here next year, the impact is likely minimal in the playoffs given what his perceived flaws are. I will hate it and I will be right here talking on SOSH about him. But I'm a lot happier knowing he same baserunning and hitting coaches are gone.
 

bankshot1

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We often hear that a 1 year deal makes the manager a lame duck on day 1. If Boone has Steinbrenner backing I'm not sure ownership would set him up in that manner. Imo it's a bad look to let him hang in the wind. If you don't want him fire him.
 

jon abbey

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I don’t disagree with you and that would be my preferred outcome but when Joe Torre was in a similar situation in 2007 (but with five titles to his credit), NY offered him one year at a pay cut and he turned it down and left, so there is history of them doing that with someone they don’t really want back but are somehow afraid to just admit that.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/news/story?id=3069115
 

terrynever

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Jim Bowden is a fool but I couldn’t resist copying his No. 1 solution for the Yankees, as posted in The Athletic. Eat your heart out, JA! Boone for the next decade.


1. Promote GM Brian Cashman to president of baseball operations and allow him to hire a general manager who would report directly to him. It’s time the Yankees reshuffle at the top of their org chart and take some of the day-to-day responsibilities off of Cashman’s plate so he can focus more on the big-picture items like improving the player development, scouting and analytics departments. Then re-sign manager Aaron Boone to a multi-year contract to lead this club with Cashman for the next decade. With those three moves behind them, the organization can spend all its time improving the 40-man roster, which is the team’s biggest problem.
 

crow216

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Jim Bowden is a fool but I couldn’t resist copying his No. 1 solution for the Yankees, as posted in The Athletic. Eat your heart out, JA! Boone for the next decade.


1. Promote GM Brian Cashman to president of baseball operations and allow him to hire a general manager who would report directly to him. It’s time the Yankees reshuffle at the top of their org chart and take some of the day-to-day responsibilities off of Cashman’s plate so he can focus more on the big-picture items like improving the player development, scouting and analytics departments. Then re-sign manager Aaron Boone to a multi-year contract to lead this club with Cashman for the next decade. With those three moves behind them, the organization can spend all its time improving the 40-man roster, which is the team’s biggest problem.
i didn’t dislike most of the other points he made except they’re probably not great trades
 

nattysez

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Boone is like the Andrew Velasquez of managers: everyone loves him as a person, he has some things he is very good at, and he is not good enough to be the manager/starting shortstop of a genuine contender. People can point to his regular season win totals but he has been badly overmatched every postseason (this season doesn't count as it was a single game with no real room for managerial input either way).
Lindsey Adler wrote something similar to your first sentence in The Athletic today.

Nevin was often tasked with being the stern voice of the coaching staff and Boone is typically laid-back when it comes to managing his players.

The Yankees are said to be still considering their managerial options and whether they would be seeking many of the qualities Boone already brings to the table. The team believes a reimagined coaching staff — and a more productive offense — could theoretically enable him to be a more effective manager for the Yankees.

Boone is a smart and open-minded baseball person with significant personal experience in the game, but some members of the organization feel he’d be a more successful manager if he were given and acted with more authority in his position. All parties involved assert that Boone is given final say over matters involving things like the lineup and game management, though the front office — like in most other MLB organizations now — provides significant input.
https://theathletic.com/2890126/2021/10/14/what-do-the-yankees-want-their-coaching-staff-to-look-like?source=user-shared-article
 

jon abbey

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Actually I think the opposite of that, he would be worse with more responsibility, and I disagree about his intelligence. He is not dumb but he is also not nearly as smart as (for instance) Girardi, Beltran, Cora, Hinch, Raul Ibanez, etc. NY keeps trying to paper over his flaws with other moves, but just fucking fire him.
 

nattysez

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Actually I think the opposite of that, he would be worse with more responsibility, and I disagree about his intelligence. He is not dumb but he is also not nearly as smart as (for instance) Girardi, Beltran, Cora, Hinch, Raul Ibanez, etc. NY keeps trying to paper over his flaws with other moves, but just fucking fire him.
Ah - got it. My $.02 is that if you have to deliberate this much about whether to retain someone who's been managing your team for four years, you should probably move on.
 

bankshot1

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My two sense. The delay doesn't look good, it puts a stink around the decision to extend him, and it sends a message to the players that if ownership/the FO can't commit to the guy, should I?

Sight
smell
sound

make that 3 sense
 

terrynever

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Ah - got it. My $.02 is that if you have to deliberate this much about whether to retain someone who's been managing your team for four years, you should probably move on.
Maybe this is Cashman squeezing Boone’s nuts and reminding him who is in charge. Surely Boone had private comments over his coaches being fired. This is a process nobody talks about publicly until they move on and write a book, or have someone write a book for them.