2021-2022 Yankees Offseason Discussion

Wingack

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I am seeing a lot of people dumping on IKF around the net, but he really feels like a great piece on a winning ball club. Maybe he isn’t a great guy to play for 162 games, but he seems like a real asset with his defense, versatility and putting the bat on the ball.
 

jon abbey

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Yeah, Donaldson and IKF have both shaved (stupidest rule ever from NY) and are in camp hitting today, Rortvedt too.

Also it doesn't matter much, but Rortvedt is another guy for opposing teams to stay away from if dugouts empty.
 

terrynever

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One of my biggest stresses with recent Yankee teams has been defense at certain positions. With two excellent defensive catchers on board, I may be able to watch this team without hooking up to my blood pressure machine.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Guess that means its Rizzo. I can't imagine Freeman chooses NYY over LAD. I also kind of don't want Freeman, call me crazy. He's no spring chicken and it is sounding like he'll be getting quite the contract.
 

Minneapolis Millers

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While Steamers projections applied to Donaldson seem optimistic (“per 650” would be a 95 percentile outcome, imo!), I agree with you JA that this was a pretty clever and cost effective way for the Yankees to address their needs, especially defensively. Dammit.

This deal only works for the Twins if it emboldens them to take on salary to get more pitching. Otherwise, their series of moves to date has saved money but not really made them much if any better overall.
 

jon abbey

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With Langeliers (a top C prospect) to the A's, it's still theoretically possible for NY to trade a big bundle to OAK for Murphy and Manaea (or Montas), and then sign Rizzo or even Freeman.
 

jon abbey

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Keith Law thinking similarly:

“ Langeliers must be a value play for the A’s, as they already have a similar player in Sean Murphy. Both are strong defensive catchers with plus arms and above-average power, and Murphy was worth about 3 WAR last year in 119 games. Langeliers, Atlanta’s first pick in the 2019 draft, had 22 homers in 97 games last year, mostly in Double A, and threw out 42 percent of opposing runners, but like Murphy doesn’t hit for high averages or walk that much, posting a .256/.339/.494 overall line as a 23-year-old. The two players are so similar that I wonder if the A’s plan to move Murphy – perhaps to the Yankees, who could use a starting catcher of his caliber – and let Langeliers take over this year as a 24-year-old.”
 

Murderer's Crow

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With Langeliers (a top C prospect) to the A's, it's still theoretically possible for NY to trade a big bundle to OAK for Murphy and Manaea (or Montas), and then sign Rizzo or even Freeman.
It's possible - but it's starting to feel like Cashman is being too patient and safe. If any of these things don't happen...we're looking at a team that might just be worse than last year in an offseason where immense talent was available. And I gotta be honest, the fact that our only options are mega contracts or mediocre players, I'm pretty disappointed already. I don't care what it would have cost for Olson, that made so much sense it hurts my brain. Trade Volpe for Olson and sign Correa. So now if we get stuck with Rizzo and Manea as our big acquisitions, has this team really gotten better? We can talk about WAR and the statistical side of shit but at the end of the day, this year is pretty important for the current roster and we still have "prime" Judge/Stanton. How is it that we're potentially going to enter the season with the same first base situation, same starters, same bullpen, and DJL floating around.

I don't know, I need someone else to set my head straight here because Freeman doesn't excite me and vaxless Rizzo is not someone I care to have back on the team. Plus we still have Gleyber and Voit.
 

Petagine in a Bottle

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How are the Yankees worse than last year? Donaldson is a stud, they added a gold glove at SS, they get Severino back, will probably bring back and have a whole year of Rizzo. I think they are having a much better off-season than…say, the Red Sox.
 

jon abbey

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How is it that we're potentially going to enter the season with the same first base situation, same starters, same bullpen, and DJL floating around.
The 1B situation is far from set, the pitching staff could use another top guy as could most teams (but they do hopefully have Severino coming back), and Donaldson is potentially a big upgrade. It probably doesn't help but Fangraphs updates with every personnel move and have NY way ahead of the other AL teams currently:

https://www.fangraphs.com/depthcharts.aspx?position=ALL&teamid=9
 

Murderer's Crow

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Donaldson is an improvement over Urshela for sure but he's also an injury prone 36 year old. The other two players in that deal are defense forward players. Other than that, we haven't added an impact player in places we need. So, again, we might do that but I think it's a real shame we'll have to shell out a shitload of money to do so when you had a rare opportunity for a player like Olson. Yankees fans have been talking about him on here for probably the better part of the last year.

Maybe this is all driven by the Olson trade. That was THE move.

and yea, Red Sox fans have more to complain about right now. I get it. Doesn't make me feel any better.
 

EvilEmpire

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Better defense at SS and C, and maybe some additional value on the pitching side when guys aren't afraid to throw balls in the dirt, makes me happy with what Cashman has done so far.
 

jon abbey

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Donaldson is old but he started his career late and has less miles on him than most 36 years old. I'm not sure I'd call him injury prone:

Games played 2019-2021 (maximum possible 384)

Donaldson: 318
Urshela: 291

Also Donaldson was 4th in MLB in average exit velocity last year, Judge/Stanton of course 1 and 2.
 

jon abbey

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Also we will learn more about the circumstances behind the Olson deal in the days to come, but a lot of times teams prefer if at all possible to send their superstars to the other league. I saw one post that made it sound like OAK and ATL have been locked in on this for a while now.
 

jon abbey

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Also offseason moves are almost always overrated in terms of impact, but somehow people forget that again every winter.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Also we will learn more about the circumstances behind the Olson deal in the days to come, but a lot of times teams prefer if at all possible to send their superstars to the other league. I saw one post that made it sound like OAK and ATL have been locked in on this for a while now.
This may be true, but I've always found it pretty dumb. If you trade a great player to a team in your league, he may beat you here and there, but he'll beat your competition far more often.
 

jon abbey

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This may be true, but I've always found it pretty dumb. If you trade a great player to a team in your league, he may beat you here and there, but he'll beat your competition far more often.
OK, but what you or I think about this is completely irrelevant, I'm just pointing out that it happens (the Indians always do this, for example) and it may have happened again here.
 

jon abbey

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And it's super easy to say 'trade the prospects!' and Cashman has done a lot of that in the past year, but if you are the team giving up Tatis Jr for a 34 year old James Shields or Cliff Lee and Grady Sizemore (as prospects) for a 29 year old Bartolo Colon or Willie McGee and Fred McGriff for very little (to name two Yankee deals, albeit ones from a long time ago), it can be a brutal hit for a franchise and a fan base.
 

jon abbey

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I would say right now it's looking like they did not have a realistic shot at Olson (without including Volpe) or Freeman (geographic preferences). I would go to maybe 7/196 on Freeman ($28M per), almost certain to be ugly for the final part of that but I'd still do it as he is such a good fit for this team right now. Let's see what he actually gets.
 

jon abbey

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Also no one is talking about this possibility (I mentioned it here last night), but Trevor Story is still out there. Story to SS, Donaldson to 1B, Gleyber at 2B, DJ to 3B, IKF as utility guy along with Cabrera. That's a very good defensive and very flexible infield.

Anyway, Cashman still has lots of options and it's only been a few days, be patient as these are moves that will have ramifications for years.
 

VORP Speed

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I love the IKF move for you guys. Especially with the current defense oriented catching situation. Having IKF lets you be much more aggressive with pinch hitting for the catcher spot—you could PH for the C spot twice.
 

EvilEmpire

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Also no one is talking about this possibility (I mentioned it here last night), but Trevor Story is still out there. Story to SS, Donaldson to 1B, Gleyber at 2B, DJ to 3B, IKF as utility guy along with Cabrera. That's a very good defensive and very flexible infield.

Anyway, Cashman still has lots of options and it's only been a few days, be patient as these are moves that will have ramifications for years.
I think DJ would just play 1B and Donaldson would stay at 3B. But regardless, I'd still prefer IKF at SS instead of Story unless it was for short years.

And who knows, maybe Story winds up taking a short deal if the big contract isn't there now.
 

jon abbey

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I think DJ would just play 1B and Donaldson would stay at 3B. But regardless, I'd still prefer IKF at SS instead of Story unless it was for short years.

And who knows, maybe Story winds up taking a short deal if the big contract isn't there now.
Yeah, you’re probably right on DJ/Donaldson and I don’t disagree with the Story part either, just trying to point out that Cashman has options still if he wants.
 

jon abbey

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I also didn't see but apparently Boone said German had some shoulder troubles in January.
Yeah he is behind schedule but Taillon is ahead of schedule and expected to start the season on time.
 

jon abbey

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Anyway, not trying to shout you down, crow, but Cashman is more aware than anyone that this is something of a go for it year.

Although with Sanchez gone now, it's worth looking at who NY may actually lose next winter:

Judge (I think they will sign him to an extension before he gets to FA but maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part)
Gallo
Chapman
Britton
Green
Taillon

The pitchers I don't think will be super hard to replace, hopefully Cashman realizes by now that spending huge money on relievers is probably not the way to go. Judge is their best player and they really can't afford to lose him, Gallo has a wide range of possibilities but he is not impossible to replace.

So my point really is that if they re-sign Judge, all of a sudden this isn't nearly as much of a 'go for it and fuck the future' season.
 

Murderer's Crow

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Anyway, not trying to shout you down, crow, but Cashman is more aware than anyone that this is something of a go for it year.

Although with Sanchez gone now, it's worth looking at who NY may actually lose next winter:

Judge (I think they will sign him to an extension before he gets to FA but maybe that is just wishful thinking on my part)
Gallo
Chapman
Britton
Green
Taillon

The pitchers I don't think will be super hard to replace, hopefully Cashman realizes by now that spending huge money on relievers is probably not the way to go. Judge is their best player and they really can't afford to lose him, Gallo has a wide range of possibilities but he is not impossible to replace.

So my point really is that if they re-sign Judge, all of a sudden this isn't nearly as much of a 'go for it and fuck the future' season.
Well, they may need to extend Gallo too because my goodness is the FA class horrible next year. Judge should test it, he'd be the number 1 fa by far.

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2021/08/2022-23-mlb-free-agents.html
 

jon abbey

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I think NY will sign Rizzo for more money than we'd all like (but a fraction of what Freeman will get) and then if he can trade for a #2 like Castillo or Manaea, I kind of love this team.
 

jon abbey

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I just want to see what this group can do with a relatively healthy season.

Is Hicks hurt yet?
If they don't trade anyone (unlikely), there is an argument that they'd be better with Hicks hurt, Judge or Gallo moves to CF, Stanton moves to a corner OF, Voit moves to DH.
 

jon abbey

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Judge will be 31 in April 2023, maybe offer an 8/200 extension now? 9/225? Stanton will be down to essentially a 5/110 deal by then and the young wave should be coming in with reinforcements for them a couple years into that.
 

jon abbey

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With German out for now and Taillon supposedly on track for Opening Day, NY's rotation pecking order (2-4 unclear):

Cole
Montgomery
Taillon
Severino
Cortes

And then all on the 40 man already: King, Schmidt, Gil, Deivi, Medina and JP Sears (26 year old lefty). Not on the 40 man are guys like Matt Krook and Ken Waldichuk who would probably be better than some of the guys who are, Randy Vazquez behind them and climbing fast, slated for AA. TJ Sikkema was a very high draft pick as a SEC-hardened lefty in 2019 (#38 overall, the pick NY got from CIN for Sonny Gray) but has been hurt and barely pitched since then. He is still 23 and finally back and evidently impressing in camp today, he could rise fast if healthy.
 

jon abbey

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But I am sure one of Cashman's most hopeful objectives right now is a guy to slot in after Cole and ahead of everyone else, Castillo has been someone I have talked about for a while. He has two more years of control, would prefer him over Manaea or Montas I think but any of those guys work nicely for me, thanks in advance Brian.
 

jon abbey

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An interesting wrinkle there is that teams know which of their own players aren’t vaccinated. AL East players will forfeit about 6% of their salaries for the games in TOR and that could save teams a few million on their CBT number, they might have a bit more space than we think.
 

Lose Remerswaal

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An interesting wrinkle there is that teams know which of their own players aren’t vaccinated. AL East players will forfeit about 6% of their salaries for the games in TOR and that could save teams a few million on their CBT number, they might have a bit more space than we think.
Vaccine idiocracy is the new efficiency?