2020 Pats: You Cam Go Your Own Way

JimD

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I'd rather they just cut bait with all three QB's after this season - get Garoppolo *and* draft the best available QB who you can develop over the next 1-2 years.
 

Cellar-Door

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That bounce pass attempt to a wide open Harry might be the worst throw I’ve ever seen. I don’t know what the hell Stidham is doing to be unable to beat out this guy.
Turning in it over is the obvious answer. No upside throwing no upside running takes too many sacks and turns it over a ton is probably worse than can't throw but can run some
 

radsoxfan

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He throws like someone with an arthritic shoulder. He has to wind his entire body into a normal throw and half the time the ball goes into the ground. He had a labral tear repair years ago, often those shoulders just go onto early arthritis.

Cam doesn't have an NFL arm anymore and his running isn't close to good enough to make up the difference. At this point if Stidham doesn't get a half, he probably won't be around next year either.
 

Harry Hooper

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I didn't hear any post-game sessions, but the 98.5 guys think Cam was pissed off about being pulled tonight.
 

johnmd20

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Belichick's entire ethos is to not blame the players. So I get how and why he said that. It's obviously not true but he's made it a part of his process to not call out players individually.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Yes but in the past he's said we have to play better, I have to coach better, etc.

Saying "Cam did a good job for us" when it's so obvious not the case is a step further than he's gone before.
 

Mystic Merlin

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Yes but in the past he's said we have to play better, I have to coach better, etc.

Saying "Cam did a good job for us" when it's so obvious not the case is a step further than he's gone before.
He is deflecting from a player everybody can see is not getting it done because he evidently likes the player, the guy works hard, and he is getting paid relative peanuts for his pedigree. This isn’t exactly effusive praise, either.

Anyways, what is the point here?
 

cshea

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And while Cam sucked, he was far from being the only problem. 44 other guys sucked too or whatever the active gameday roster number is. I guess Jake Bailey had a good game so you can leave him off the shit list.
 

rodderick

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Belichick's entire ethos is to not blame the players. So I get how and why he said that. It's obviously not true but he's made it a part of his process to not call out players individually.
Even when Tom fucking Brady had his play questioned by the media, Bill never came to his defense so openly. I don't recall him acting this way with any player, really.
 

Ferm Sheller

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They were eliminated from the playoffs last week and Cam's less than a week away from being an ex-Patriot. Why wouldn't he praise him and send him off on a good note?
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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It's obvious that BB likes and respects Cam. Hell, so do I. It's just jarring to see him deny reality like that. He never trashes his players to the press, but I thought he'd say the usual "we need to play better, in all positions" mantra.

None of this really matters. But it's just a big surprise to see.
 

Over Guapo Grande

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If I were in the Pats draft room, I'd be looking to draft a receiver named "Le Turf". All the throws seem to head in that direction, so mightn't as well capitalize on it. I think there is a DB at a D3 school with that name (he also kicks/punts... versatility!).
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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True, but if Stidham hasn't been playing because he hasn't earned the right to do so from hard work and improvement in practice, then Cam's going to have to earn the PT incentives the same way, I think.
 

JimD

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Really surprised they haven't brought in Johnny Foxborough yet - Bill used to compare him favorably to Tom Brady all the time.
 

cornwalls@6

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I'm now at the point where I couldn't care less who starts this week. Last night kind of sealed it. The time has passed to get a meaningful, game-action based evaluation of Stidham, and BB clearly thinks it isn't worth the bother anyway, based on what they see everyday, I guess. I fully expect both of them to be gone next year, or Stidham to at best be a 3rd/emergency QB only. They might as well play Cam, get him his incentives, and send him off on a good note. He just can't play anymore, but it seems like he tried hard, and was a good teammate, so I have no ill will, and don't need to see him benched out of spite.
 

Pablo's TB Lover

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Effort has nothing to do with his shoulder being mincemeat.
That's pretty much it. The shoulder played ok for the first several games of the season and my hope was the struggles mid-season were due to some form of Covid hangover. However, his running and energy are high level now but the throws just keep getting worse and worse.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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Or, Josh seized the opportunity supplied by the question to find one angle where he could say something positive about Cam. There's not much else.
I firmly believe that BB and the coaches use their pressers as meetings for the team. They don't say anything that isn't meant for team consumption. Josh praising Cam's work and preparation is a signal to the team about what things the coaching staff values.
 

EvilEmpire

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I've always been a BB fan, and I think this entire situation is an interesting snapshot into how he thinks and what makes him a great coach.

- He realizes Stidham just doesn't have it, never had it and won't get it.
- He knows Cam doesn't right now either, but understands he once did. This season has been a project to see if Cam can recover that talent.
- For his part in the project, Cam has been busting his ass, doing everything the coaches want, to the limit of what his broken body can do.
- The results aren't there; the project failed. BB will move on, but he still appreciates Cam giving him everything he's got, and everyone can see how much BB and the coaches respect that.
- The culture that BB built is sustained.

At least that is how I see it. How leaders handle lack of success is important. BB is a good leader.
 

BusRaker

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My high school coach once started me over our all-state shooting guard because I worked way harder in practice. It didn't work out well for the team that game, but he (the other 2 guard) definitely started working a lot harder in practice. Maybe Jared basically quit the team when they signed Cam and later named him starter instead of working harder.

We'll never know until Stidham's tell-all book (lol)
 

lexrageorge

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I've always been a BB fan, and I think this entire situation is an interesting snapshot into how he thinks and what makes him a great coach.

- He realizes Stidham just doesn't have it, never had it and won't get it.
- He knows Cam doesn't right now either, but understands he once did. This season has been a project to see if Cam can recover that talent.
- For his part in the project, Cam has been busting his ass, doing everything the coaches want, to the limit of what his broken body can do.
- The results aren't there; the project failed. BB will move on, but he still appreciates Cam giving him everything he's got, and everyone can see how much BB and the coaches respect that.
- The culture that BB built is sustained.

At least that is how I see it. How leaders handle lack of success is important. BB is a good leader.
Bill's critics need to read the above. Players do talk, and Cam has a ton of friends around the league. Newton will almost certainly be gone, but at least prospective free agents will see how players like Cam were treated and will at least have their agents return Bill's phone calls. And the players that return next year will understand what will be expected of them.
 

JimD

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Belichick has incredibly high standards and we can safely conclude by now that Stidham doesn't meet them. It doesn't necessarily mean Jared is lazy, doesn't care, got petulant when Cam was signed, etc. - it could simply be that he tried his best but his best wasn't good enough for Bill
 

Cellar-Door

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I will say this for Cam last night.....

If Byrd makes that catch, you're looking at Cam having 2 TDs on 4 drives in the first half and going 6/10 for 61 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, adding in decent rushing yards and a rushing TD.
It was ugly, and that's not ideal QB play, but I think to Bill, that is getting the job done. They called plays to take into account that Cam's shoulder looks like it's toast, and he generally executed decently enough to score on half his drives. To Bill, that's doing his job, and if the defense was better maybe you have a chance to win. He also pulled Cam because he didn't think he could do the newly constituted job of coming back from 3 scores down.

Cam was bad last night, and he clearly can't pass with any consistency..... he's not why we lost last night, we lost because we got torched on defense and aren't built to make comebacks (partly because of Cam, but also the WR/TE positions).
 

djbayko

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It can be both. It’s more difficult to get torched on defense when your offense isn’t always handing the ball back to the other team after 1 or 2 sets of downs. And it’s a lot easier to get torched on D when they’re tired from constantly seeing the field.

Cam isn’t THE reason we lost but he is most certainly A reason we lost.
 

Captaincoop

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I will say this for Cam last night.....

If Byrd makes that catch, you're looking at Cam having 2 TDs on 4 drives in the first half and going 6/10 for 61 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, adding in decent rushing yards and a rushing TD.
It was ugly, and that's not ideal QB play, but I think to Bill, that is getting the job done. They called plays to take into account that Cam's shoulder looks like it's toast, and he generally executed decently enough to score on half his drives. To Bill, that's doing his job, and if the defense was better maybe you have a chance to win. He also pulled Cam because he didn't think he could do the newly constituted job of coming back from 3 scores down.

Cam was bad last night, and he clearly can't pass with any consistency..... he's not why we lost last night, we lost because we got torched on defense and aren't built to make comebacks (partly because of Cam, but also the WR/TE positions).
You already said plenty for Cam last night. He stinks. He stunk again last night. He will stink again on Sunday.
 

Cellar-Door

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It can be both. It’s more difficult to get torched on defense when your offense isn’t handing the ball back to them after 1 or 2 sets of downs. And it’s a lot easier to get torched on D when they’re tired from constantly seeing the field.

Cam isn’t THE reason we lost but he is A reason we lost.
I agree he was a reason.
Not sure I buy the "offense didn't do anything so the defense was tired bit though.... the first half, we gave up a score on every drive they had, didn't matter if it was the first drive after we'd held the ball, a drive after we had a 3 and out, or after we had a 90 yard TD drive". Our defense was terrible from the get go.
 

Smiling Joe Hesketh

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There have already been other games this season where the defense played well but Cam couldn't put points on the board. The one consistent factor to the team's struggles this season has been the offense and the QB performance.
 

Cellar-Door

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You already said plenty for Cam last night. He stinks. He stunk again last night. He will stink again on Sunday.
And I was right... he was terrible, but Stidham was just as terrible and without the run threat the offense produced even less. It will likely be the same for both against the Jets. I don't think Cam is good, or the future, I just recognize that he his the slightly more likely of our two bad QBs to lead a scoring drive.
 

djbayko

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I agree he was a reason.
Not sure I buy the "offense didn't do anything so the defense was tired bit though.... the first half, we gave up a score on every drive they had, didn't matter if it was the first drive after we'd held the ball, a drive after we had a 3 and out, or after we had a 90 yard TD drive". Our defense was terrible from the get go.
Our defense was okay the first couple of possessions. The first drive they held them to a field goal and then they had some bongead plays extend a drive into a touchdown when they should have gotten out of it earlier.

It’s not just being tired. I was trying to say that keeping the ball away from them while scoring some points of your own is always a good thing. They couldn’t do that.

As bad as the defense was early on, it got progressively worse.
 

Super Nomario

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It can be both. It’s more difficult to get torched on defense when your offense isn’t always handing the ball back to the other team after 1 or 2 sets of downs. And it’s a lot easier to get torched on D when they’re tired from constantly seeing the field.
People need to stop making this excuse for the defense. The offense is one of the best in the league at time of possession per drive (4th-best) and plays per drive (5th). They aren't very good at turning that into points (25th), but if the D is getting tired it is 100% on the defense not being able to get off the field (they are 31st in opponent's time of possession per drive and 26th in plays allowed per drive). The D is making the O look bad more than the O is making the D look bad, and it's not even close.

I will say this for Cam last night.....

If Byrd makes that catch, you're looking at Cam having 2 TDs on 4 drives in the first half and going 6/10 for 61 yards, 1 TD, 0 INT, adding in decent rushing yards and a rushing TD.
It was ugly, and that's not ideal QB play, but I think to Bill, that is getting the job done. They called plays to take into account that Cam's shoulder looks like it's toast, and he generally executed decently enough to score on half his drives. To Bill, that's doing his job, and if the defense was better maybe you have a chance to win.
I think all of this is right. I think Belichick built this team planning to win on defense and running the ball and the defense has let him down considerably. I think it's telling he keeps tinkering with playing time among the defensive players but has basically run the same offensive guys out there game after game. The O in the first half last night was competitive; the defense was not.

He also pulled Cam because he didn't think he could do the newly constituted job of coming back from 3 scores down.
I think it's more he didn't want Cam to get killed in a lost cause. They were down 22 their first possession of the second half, ran three times and punted on 4th-and-2. If that ain't a white flag, I don't know what is.
 

Kenny F'ing Powers

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People need to stop making this excuse for the defense. The offense is one of the best in the league at time of possession per drive (4th-best) and plays per drive (5th). They aren't very good at turning that into points (25th), but if the D is getting tired it is 100% on the defense not being able to get off the field (they are 31st in opponent's time of possession per drive and 26th in plays allowed per drive). The D is making the O look bad more than the O is making the D look bad, and it's not even close.
Yeah, but you were beating this same drum when the team was winning SBs. You've never been much of a fan of this defense. It certainly hasnt been good down the stretch, but when a team goes several games without being able to find the endzone, I'd argue that should be at the forefront of focus. Maybe those stats arent telling the full truth of what's playing out on the field.
 

djbayko

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People need to stop making this excuse for the defense. The offense is one of the best in the league at time of possession per drive (4th-best) and plays per drive (5th). They aren't very good at turning that into points (25th), but if the D is getting tired it is 100% on the defense not being able to get off the field (they are 31st in opponent's time of possession per drive and 26th in plays allowed per drive). The D is making the O look bad more than the O is making the D look bad, and it's not even close.


I think all of this is right. I think Belichick built this team planning to win on defense and running the ball and the defense has let him down considerably. I think it's telling he keeps tinkering with playing time among the defensive players but has basically run the same offensive guys out there game after game. The O in the first half last night was competitive; the defense was not.


I think it's more he didn't want Cam to get killed in a lost cause. They were down 22 their first possession of the second half, ran three times and punted on 4th-and-2. If that ain't a white flag, I don't know what is.
I’m not making excuses for the defense. I’m saying there are contributing factors to the loss. A big reason the Bills were able to run up the score on us is because we couldn’t put together any semblance of an offense and therefore kept giving them the hall. Yes, of course the defense plays a role in that too. That was my point.