2020 Pats: You Cam Go Your Own Way

axx

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If you had any doubts about what the Patriots think of Stidham, that should answer your question. Still think there's a chance Cam is back next year as the backup.
 

heavyde050

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If you had any doubts about what the Patriots think of Stidham, that should answer your question. Still think there's a chance Cam is back next year as the backup.
That is what I am afraid of. No way Cam takes a job as a backup. If he is back next year, he will be starting which will be horrible.
Cam isn't leading any team to the playoffs.
 

axx

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That is what I am afraid of. No way Cam takes a job as a backup.
I think he's going to have to if he wants to continue being employed. Maybe he could be the starter early on next year if they draft a QB that they don't want to send out there right away.
 

heavyde050

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I think he's going to have to if he wants to continue being employed. Maybe he could be the starter early on next year if they draft a QB that they don't want to send out there right away.
He has been one of the worst QBs in all of football this season and BB keeps starting him.
I can see him coming back next year and starting again.
 

rodderick

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If Stidham can be a Hoyer-level backup, that'd be valuable enough to find out. More money you can allocate elsewhere. On the other hand, if he can't be even that, you know you have to get two QBs for 2021. Just do it, give him a full week to prepare as the starter and see if he craps himself or shows he can keep a team afloat for 3 weeks if your starter goes down. There's value in that, odds are the next guy they draft/sign won't have a single injury in 20 years like Brady did.
 

JimD

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If you had any doubts about what the Patriots think of Stidham, that should answer your question.
If so, then ... again ... why is Stidham even on the roster?

This feels like an FU from Bill to the media and fans questioning him.
 

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That is what I am afraid of. No way Cam takes a job as a backup. If he is back next year, he will be starting which will be horrible.
Cam isn't leading any team to the playoffs.
Who in the league is going to sign Cam to be the starter next season? Everyone, including BB watches film. Clearly, he has no faith in Stidham, so he's letting Cam playout the string. There is no way in hell that this implies that he'll bring Cam back to be a similarly inept starter next season. No f'ing chance in hell. Much more likely he tries to trade for Stafford, Jimmy G, etc. Whether Cam is in NE or elsewhere next season, he'll begin as a backup.
 

tims4wins

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I think this decision is based purely on putting forth the most competitive team / effort possible against a team that will be in the playoffs. His is respecting the opponent and the league. Nothing more, nothing less.

It will be interesting to see if he makes a change for the Jets game, since that game will have less meaning, aside from draft implications. I could see Newton starting 16 and Stidham in 17, honestly. I won’t hang Bill out to dry on this. Even if Stidham doesn’t start in 17 it’s going to be for a good reason. Maybe that reason is that Stidham is a lost cause, maybe that reason is he thinks starting Stidham would only do harm, maybe he just wants to win as many games as possible and he thinks Cam gives them the best chance. I’d rather they lost out at this point of course for the draft implications (would be really nice to climb into the 11-12 range) but I doubt he thinks that way.
 

heavyde050

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Who in the league is going to sign Cam to be the starter next season? Everyone, including BB watches film. Clearly, he has no faith in Stidham, so he's letting Cam playout the string. There is no way in hell that this implies that he'll bring Cam back to be a similarly inept starter next season. No f'ing chance in hell. Much more likely he tries to trade for Stafford, Jimmy G, etc. Whether Cam is in NE or elsewhere next season, he'll begin as a backup.
I agree with everything you said. I said I was afraid for Cam coming back next year (to the Pats) because I don’t think Cam wants to be a backup.
I hope you are correct and the Pats go in another direction for starting QB.
 

ShaneTrot

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Stidham must really suck. They haven't scored a TD in 2 weeks. If Cam is the best chance to win then all three QBs need to be replaced for 2021.
 

SamCassellsStones

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Maybe part of the reason they aren’t starting Stidham is for Stidham’s sake. They know he isn’t ready, and will probably do poorly, and his career prospects will be in jeopardy. Doesnt necessarily mean he has no value to the team; maybe they’re just waiting till he’s ready for the moment
 

OurF'ingCity

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Does Cam have incentives in his contract for reaching playing time milestones? If so, maybe Belichick is just doing him a solid and helping him to get to those.

If not...¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

Harry Hooper

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Who in the league is going to sign Cam to be the starter next season? Everyone, including BB watches film. Clearly, he has no faith in Stidham, so he's letting Cam playout the string. There is no way in hell that this implies that he'll bring Cam back to be a similarly inept starter next season. No f'ing chance in hell. Much more likely he tries to trade for Stafford, Jimmy G, etc. Whether Cam is in NE or elsewhere next season, he'll begin as a backup.
I love your certitude and want you to be right. Until contrary evidence appears, however, I believe the default position is that Cam will be the starting QB next season as BB counts on a full offseason of prep to fully unlock the Cam-led offense and Cam accepts a cheap deal.
 

Seels

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I'm honestly not sure I'd bother watching the team if I knew Newton were going to be the QB going into next year. There are some things that you can blame on supporting talent, or not having as many practices, or covid. But I hated this moved the moment it was made in June. He's a shitty quarterback and he's been a shitty quarterback for a while. Practice is not going to make Cam someone who can make reads, or not throw at his running backs feet.

There have to be like 8 college players I'd rather see starting opening day next year than Cam. He has 0 upside as a player at this point -- his MVP year might as well have been a lifetime ago. Locker room presence means fuck all when you're competing with Daniel Jones and Sam Darnold for worst passer in the league (and truth be told I'd much rather have either of them over Cam as you can at least hope there is upside left)
 

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I love your certitude and want you to be right. Until contrary evidence appears, however, I believe the default position is that Cam will be the starting QB next season as BB counts on a full offseason of prep to fully unlock the Cam-led offense and Cam accepts a cheap deal.
BB sees that Cam's shoulder is toast. He doesn't have any options he likes during the season, but he'll find someone he likes in the off-season. I'm incredibly confident about this.
 

lexrageorge

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There is like almost zero chance Newton is resigned by the Pats to be the starting QB. We need to remember that the Pats entered this offseason with zero cap space and with Stidham slated to be the #1 QB. We can safely assume Bill figured a 1-15 season would not really benefit the team long term even if they did manage to win the Trevor sweepstakes in the process.

There is an outside (as in very small) chance that Newton is brought in on another make-good contract and is allowed to compete for the job again in training camp. His legs allow him to be a serviceable backup for a small number of games. But his competition would be a lot stiffer than either Stidham or Hoyer this time around.

Finally, the team does have an opening at QB coach....
 

rodderick

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There is like almost zero chance Newton is resigned by the Pats to be the starting QB. We need to remember that the Pats entered this offseason with zero cap space and with Stidham slated to be the #1 QB. We can safely assume Bill figured a 1-15 season would not really benefit the team long term even if they did manage to win the Trevor sweepstakes in the process.

There is an outside (as in very small) chance that Newton is brought in on another make-good contract and is allowed to compete for the job again in training camp. His legs allow him to be a serviceable backup for a small number of games. But his competition would be a lot stiffer than either Stidham or Hoyer this time around.

Finally, the team does have an opening at QB coach....
Honestly, what legs? Cam has been a short yardage back for 10+ weeks now, dude hasn't been explosive in a good while.
 

bsj

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Won’t be watching another down this season if Cam is starting. Stupid decision on every practical Level. This is benching Butler in the Super Bowl level stupid
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Won’t be watching another down this season if Cam is starting. Stupid decision on every practical Level. This is benching Butler in the Super Bowl level stupid
Agree. Being the contrarian and “smartest guy in the room” works a whole lot better when you have the greatest QB of all time rather than having clowns like Steve Belichick backing up your decisions.
 

OurF'ingCity

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Won’t be watching another down this season if Cam is starting. Stupid decision on every practical Level. This is benching Butler in the Super Bowl level stupid
Considering they’re already out of the playoffs this is absolutely NOT comparable in really any way to the Butler benching.

The reason to start Stidham is to see what he has in terms of in-game talent. But if BB either (a) already thinks he knows for sure that Stidham sucks or (b) thinks starting Stidham now with a banged-up and seemingly tired OL and a bad crop of receivers could hurt his confidence, that’s somewhat understandable. Also, although BB would never admit this, I do wonder if he’s accepted that they are in mini-tank mode now and there’s no benefit to winning - so in that sense starting Cam doesn’t matter.

I do agree that I have no interest in watching them if Cam is playing because we know what we’re getting, so selfishly I would prefer Stidham play, but it’s not really Belichick’s job to keep viewership up in a lost season.
 

bsj

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Considering they’re already out of the playoffs this is absolutely NOT comparable in really any way to the Butler benching.

The reason to start Stidham is to see what he has in terms of in-game talent. But if BB either (a) already thinks he knows for sure that Stidham sucks or (b) thinks starting Stidham now with a banged-up and seemingly tired OL and a bad crop of receivers could hurt his confidence, that’s somewhat understandable. Also, although BB would never admit this, I do wonder if he’s accepted that they are in mini-tank mode now and there’s no benefit to winning - so in that sense starting Cam doesn’t matter.

I do agree that I have no interest in watching them if Cam is playing because we know what we’re getting, so selfishly I would prefer Stidham play, but it’s not really Belichick’s job to keep viewership up in a lost season.
If Stidham plays and is good, maybe we determine he is the guy for next year. Net positive to the franchise. And If we 100% know he isn’t why is he still on the active roster?

if Stidham plays and is not good, and we lose out, we gain a better draft position. Net positive for the franchise. And we then know unequivocally to cut Him.

If Newton plays and is good, we still miss the playoffs and are no closer to figuring out the future of the QB position. And we really hurt our draft position.

if Newton plays and is bad, we lost the same games as we would have with Stidham playing and are that much further away from knowing the future of the position.

can someone explain the actual Upside because I don’t see it.
 

Seels

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If Stidham plays and is good, maybe we determine he is the guy for next year. Net positive to the franchise. And If we 100% know he isn’t why is he still on the active roster?

if Stidham plays and is not good, and we lose out, we gain a better draft position. Net positive for the franchise. And we then know unequivocally to cut Him.

If Newton plays and is good, we still miss the playoffs and are no closer to figuring out the future of the QB position. And we really hurt our draft position.

if Newton plays and is bad, we lost the same games as we would have with Stidham playing and are that much further away from knowing the future of the position.

can someone explain the actual Upside because I don’t see it.
This is the same exact argument I'd have had in June. I never understood this signing aside from a lottery ticket. Cam shouldn't have started after SF.
 

jsinger121

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This is the same exact argument I'd have had in June. I never understood this signing aside from a lottery ticket. Cam shouldn't have started after SF.
Hence why this was such a wasted season. You are in the same place you were prior to begin the season. They should have played Stidham and not playing him is one of the dumb decisions BB has made this year.
 

FL4WL3SS

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They would not and should not just give Stidham the job. He lost the job to a guy who literally came off the street into a new system.
Josh indicated in his recent interview that pretty much Stidham has had every opportunity to improve in practice and that he's seen what he has to offer, extra games wouldn't change that.

Take from that what you want, but it sounded like he hasn't earned the playing time.
 

Seels

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They would not and should not just give Stidham the job. He lost the job to a guy who literally came off the street into a new system.
Then he should be cut in the offseason. If he's not good enough to earn playing time now there's no point in him occupying a roster spot next year.
 

8slim

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If Cam is starting tomorrow, then I expect none of the three QBs on the roster to be back next year. Cam is as bad as any Pats QB I’ve seen since Tommy Hodson. Stidham can’t beat him out. Hoyer’s worse than them both.

I totally understand that if Stidham has been soooo bad in practice that he can’t move ahead of Cam then it doesn’t make sense to start him. Still, it’s disappointing. And also baffling that BB was willing to go into the season with him as his likely starting QB had none of that other 31 teams signed Cam.
 

Mystic Merlin

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If Cam is starting tomorrow, then I expect none of the three QBs on the roster to be back next year. Cam is as bad as any Pats QB I’ve seen since Tommy Hodson. Stidham can’t beat him out. Hoyer’s worse than them both.

I totally understand that if Stidham has been soooo bad in practice that he can’t move ahead of Cam then it doesn’t make sense to start him. Still, it’s disappointing. And also baffling that BB was willing to go into the season with him as his likely starting QB had none of that other 31 teams signed Cam.
I think they expected a stronger showing in camp than they got.The buzz from reporters covering the team is that they weren’t thrilled about his readiness and willingness to push through the injury he had.

I.e., evaluations are dynamic.

And what were their options? Circa March they couldn’t afford to pay a Dalton or Mariota.
 

johnmd20

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If Cam is starting tomorrow, then I expect none of the three QBs on the roster to be back next year. Cam is as bad as any Pats QB I’ve seen since Tommy Hodson. Stidham can’t beat him out. Hoyer’s worse than them both.

I totally understand that if Stidham has been soooo bad in practice that he can’t move ahead of Cam then it doesn’t make sense to start him. Still, it’s disappointing. And also baffling that BB was willing to go into the season with him as his likely starting QB had none of that other 31 teams signed Cam.
Cam really is an incredibly bad passer of the football this year. It's amazing to watch him.
 

8slim

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I think they expected a stronger showing in camp than they got.The buzz from reporters covering the team is that they weren’t thrilled about his readiness and willingness to push through the injury he had.

I.e., evaluations are dynamic.

And what were their options? Circa March they couldn’t afford to pay a Dalton or Mariota.
I get it. I do recall that some beat reporters were suggesting that Hoyer could start given how Stidham was looking pre-Cam. Just weird that he was that far away. Seemed like BB was comfortable with Jimmy G taking over for Brady, and I mistakenly thought Stidham was in a similar place.
 

Mystic Merlin

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I get it. I do recall that some beat reporters were suggesting that Hoyer could start given how Stidham was looking pre-Cam. Just weird that he was that far away. Seemed like BB was comfortable with Jimmy G taking over for Brady, and I mistakenly thought Stidham was in a similar place.
Yeah, I think we all figured he was more ready than proved out. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is buried in the depth chart or cut altogether if he has another bad camp.
 

lexrageorge

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If Stidham was better than Cam in practice, then Stidham would have been named the starter either for the Bills or perhaps even earlier. He obviously hasn't been better; he absolutely sucked in training camp according to multiple media reports. Stidham was on the roster this season because the Pats had no other options.

As noted, the Pats learned plenty watching Stidham in practice. He's probably not back, or, if he is, he is fighting for the 3rd string job.
 

rodderick

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If Stidham was better than Cam in practice, then Stidham would have been named the starter either for the Bills or perhaps even earlier. He obviously hasn't been better; he absolutely sucked in training camp according to multiple media reports. Stidham was on the roster this season because the Pats had no other options.

As noted, the Pats learned plenty watching Stidham in practice. He's probably not back, or, if he is, he is fighting for the 3rd string job.
They've carried two QBs before, why do you say this?
 

8slim

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Yeah, I think we all figured he was more ready than proved out. Wouldn’t be surprised if he is buried in the depth chart or cut altogether if he has another bad camp.
If he can’t beat out Cam 2020, they should probably just cut bait and move on. Trade for Wentz, or some other starting-quality QB, maybe draft someone, and sign a veteran backup. It’s hard to envision Stidham recovering from this disaster of a season.
 

mauf

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Who in the league is going to sign Cam to be the starter next season? Everyone, including BB watches film. Clearly, he has no faith in Stidham, so he's letting Cam playout the string. There is no way in hell that this implies that he'll bring Cam back to be a similarly inept starter next season. No f'ing chance in hell. Much more likely he tries to trade for Stafford, Jimmy G, etc. Whether Cam is in NE or elsewhere next season, he'll begin as a backup.
I’m not so sure.

Besides the Pats, there are three teams whose 2021 Week 1 starter clearly isn’t someone on the current roster: the Jaguars, the Broncos, and the Football Team. JAX will obviously address the position through the draft (Lawrence), but I don’t think any other rookies are likely to be Week 1 starters. Obviously, DEN and WAS might address the position by signing a free agent like Prescott or Cousins, or trading for someone like Matt Ryan, but each of those moves creates an opening someplace else. So I think you’ll have two teams somewhere in the league that are heading into 2021 with some kind of bridge QB situations, and I’d expect Cam to be in the mix alongside guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Nick Foles for those spots. Failing that, there will be no shortage of teams interested in Cam as a backup.

The only way I see Cam back here is if BB addresses the position through the draft, at which point cultural fit becomes more important than short-term production (and in that situation, I might like Cam on a 1-year deal a lot).
 

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I’m not so sure.

Besides the Pats, there are three teams whose 2021 Week 1 starter clearly isn’t someone on the current roster: the Jaguars, the Broncos, and the Football Team. JAX will obviously address the position through the draft (Lawrence), but I don’t think any other rookies are likely to be Week 1 starters. Obviously, DEN and WAS might address the position by signing a free agent like Prescott or Cousins, or trading for someone like Matt Ryan, but each of those moves creates an opening someplace else. So I think you’ll have two teams somewhere in the league that are heading into 2021 with some kind of bridge QB situations, and I’d expect Cam to be in the mix alongside guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Nick Foles for those spots. Failing that, there will be no shortage of teams interested in Cam as a backup.

The only way I see Cam back here is if BB addresses the position through the draft, at which point cultural fit becomes more important than short-term production (and in that situation, I might like Cam on a 1-year deal a lot).
I wouldn't be so sure that Alex Smith won't be the bridge QB in WAS
 

Mystic Merlin

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I’m not so sure.

Besides the Pats, there are three teams whose 2021 Week 1 starter clearly isn’t someone on the current roster: the Jaguars, the Broncos, and the Football Team. JAX will obviously address the position through the draft (Lawrence), but I don’t think any other rookies are likely to be Week 1 starters. Obviously, DEN and WAS might address the position by signing a free agent like Prescott or Cousins, or trading for someone like Matt Ryan, but each of those moves creates an opening someplace else. So I think you’ll have two teams somewhere in the league that are heading into 2021 with some kind of bridge QB situations, and I’d expect Cam to be in the mix alongside guys like Ryan Fitzpatrick and Nick Foles for those spots. Failing that, there will be no shortage of teams interested in Cam as a backup.

The only way I see Cam back here is if BB addresses the position through the draft, at which point cultural fit becomes more important than short-term production (and in that situation, I might like Cam on a 1-year deal a lot).
Denver could run it back another year with Lock, who they spent the 42nd pick on in 2019.
 

axx

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Won’t be watching another down this season if Cam is starting. Stupid decision on every practical Level. This is benching Butler in the Super Bowl level stupid
There's no point in starting Stidham because he won't be on the roster next year. Cam might be.
 

mauf

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Denver could run it back another year with Lock, who they spent the 42nd pick on in 2019.
Hard to have the results you’ve had the past two years and not change your head coach or your QB. We know Fangio will be back, so I’m assuming Lock won’t be.
 

heavyde050

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There's no point in starting Stidham because he won't be on the roster next year. Cam might be.
If Cam is on the roster - he will be given an opportunity to start right? What would be a realistic salary? Anything above the minimum seems like a waste of money.
 

biggreen

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IF he’s back, gotta hope that it’s as a backup with some promise of seeing playing time in utility role / gadget plays ala @OldeBeanTowne’s suggestion or some other trickeration that josh can come up with. Ideally his only opportunity to start would be if the starter (jimmy g, Stafford, wentz, fitzmagic?) is hurt. Seems unlikely that interests would align, but maybe bb sticking with him has created some good will toward making another team friendly deal.
 

ponch73

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If Cam is starting tomorrow, then I expect none of the three QBs on the roster to be back next year. Cam is as bad as any Pats QB I’ve seen since Tommy Hodson. Stidham can’t beat him out. Hoyer’s worse than them both.

I totally understand that if Stidham has been soooo bad in practice that he can’t move ahead of Cam then it doesn’t make sense to start him. Still, it’s disappointing. And also baffling that BB was willing to go into the season with him as his likely starting QB had none of that other 31 teams signed Cam.
Believe it or not, I think you might have seen worse QB play in the Belichick era. How did folks feel about Drew Bledsoe's 2000 season under Belichick? The backup QB's on that team didn't get a whole lot of starts or snaps under center during the regular season either. There's a method to BB's madness. Some surprising stats:

Completion Percentage:
2000 Bledsoe: 59%
2020 Newton: 66%

Yards Per Attempt:
2000 Bledsoe: 6.2
2020 Newton: 7.3

Offensive Points Per Drives Led (excluding clock-killing drives):
2000 Bledsoe: 1.42
2020 Newton: 2.18

Total TD's:
2000 Bledsoe: 19 (in 16 games)
2020 Newton: 16 (in 13 games)

Total Turnovers:
2000 Bledsoe: 14
2020 Newton: 11

Sacks Taken:
2000 Bledsoe: 45
2020 Newton: 26

Wins/Losses:
2000 Bledsoe: 5-11
2020 Newton: 6-7
 

rodderick

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Believe it or not, I think you might have seen worse QB play in the Belichick era. How did folks feel about Drew Bledsoe's 2000 season under Belichick? The backup QB's on that team didn't get a whole lot of starts or snaps under center during the regular season either. There's a method to BB's madness. Some surprising stats:

Completion Percentage:
2000 Bledsoe: 59%
2020 Newton: 66%

Yards Per Attempt:
2000 Bledsoe: 6.2
2020 Newton: 7.3

Offensive Points Per Drives Led (excluding clock-killing drives):
2000 Bledsoe: 1.42
2020 Newton: 2.18

Total TD's:
2000 Bledsoe: 19 (in 16 games)
2020 Newton: 16 (in 13 games)

Total Turnovers:
2000 Bledsoe: 14
2020 Newton: 11

Sacks Taken:
2000 Bledsoe: 45
2020 Newton: 26

Wins/Losses:
2000 Bledsoe: 5-11
2020 Newton: 6-7
Bledsoe was 24th in the league in ANY/A, Cam is currently 28th. Bledsoe was 12th in DYAR and 18th in DVOA, Cam has ranked 31st in both DYAR and DVOA. He's been worse than Drew relative to his environment.
 

8slim

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Believe it or not, I think you might have seen worse QB play in the Belichick era. How did folks feel about Drew Bledsoe's 2000 season under Belichick? The backup QB's on that team didn't get a whole lot of starts or snaps under center during the regular season either. There's a method to BB's madness. Some surprising stats:

Completion Percentage:
2000 Bledsoe: 59%
2020 Newton: 66%

Yards Per Attempt:
2000 Bledsoe: 6.2
2020 Newton: 7.3

Offensive Points Per Drives Led (excluding clock-killing drives):
2000 Bledsoe: 1.42
2020 Newton: 2.18

Total TD's:
2000 Bledsoe: 19 (in 16 games)
2020 Newton: 16 (in 13 games)

Total Turnovers:
2000 Bledsoe: 14
2020 Newton: 11

Sacks Taken:
2000 Bledsoe: 45
2020 Newton: 26

Wins/Losses:
2000 Bledsoe: 5-11
2020 Newton: 6-7
I get what you’re saying. However, it has to be noted that (a) the 2000 Pats run game was awful — 3.3 yards per attempt, and (b) the 2000 Pats OL was lousy, hence the 45 sacks. Bledsoe certainly had better weapons at WR, as Troy Brown and Terry Glenn were light years better than the sorry crew we have this season. But Cam has a fantastic run game that keeps defenses honest, and a stout OL protecting him. I had largely soured on Bledsoe by 2000, but put him on this team and it’s hard to not see the Pats being at least 8-6 and fighting for a playoff spot. Especially considering that the expectations for the QB spot have change a good bit in 20 years, so I’m guessing Drew’s completion percentage would be in the mid-60s, and he’d probably throw a few less picks.