That feels ... just and appropriate?
That feels ... just and appropriate?
Does this mean I can still watch sports for the next few years? Because frankly, the prospects of this election dominating the next 11 month, and no fun with sports because of stupid shit, isn''t really making me excited about 2020.
Here, I found video of a Bengals assistant signaling plays...Or maybe they make signals with their arms out stretched or over their heads. Crazy, I know.
Given what the video crews were taping one could argue that it was a banner year for horror films.Really bad year for Kraft when it come to videos of hand stuff.
Nothing but a magic camera could ever pick this up...The press box is on the visitors side of the field. There's no magic camera angle that allows them to see the front of the Bengals bench. You can look at the photo from the press box on page four.
Yep. Make a penalty that is severe enough, but no more severe, as necessary to remind teams that their reps (whether they receive W2s or 1099s) must adhere to the rules.That feels ... just and appropriate?
Well, that's one report.So you mean to tell me this is much ado about nothing? Interesting. Patriots paranoia at it's finest.
Even should the NFL come out, say they believe the Patriots, and levels a minor punishment ... the damage has been done in terms of national perspectiveSo you mean to tell me this is much ado about nothing? Interesting. Patriots paranoia at it's finest.
Well, you know, teams always issue official statements of apology over things that are much ado about nothingWell, that's one report.
Let's wait and see.
Yeah, I'm confused at what future damage this does if it really is a small fine.To everyone outside of New England, the perspective was already that they are cheaters. I don't think this makes it any worse.
You know what I mean. As I've said, it can be both a violation of rules and not an intention to cheat.Well, you know, teams always issue official statements of apology over things that are much ado about nothing
I'm still trying to parse how your experience on an NFL sideline equals that of an NFL coach over whether there's anything to gain by learning a team's hand signalsYou know what I mean.
I'm still trying to figure out how coaches would gain anything by footage they don't see.I'm still trying to parse how your experience on an NFL sideline equals that of an NFL coach over whether there's anything to gain by learning a team's hand signals
Yeah, I'm confused at what future damage this does if it really is a small fine.
Only speaking from experience as someone who lives on the other coast, but there had been a noticeable change in recent years -- particularly after the 28-3 game -- of how NFL fans talked about the Patriots in conversation. That the acknowledgement of their success had finally overcome the reputation as cheaters. When this story broke yesterday, a couple of those same people reverted to their former opinions ... one even said that he "should've known that they'd never stopped cheating."To everyone outside of New England, the perspective was already that they are cheaters. I don't think this makes it any worse.
That doesn't address the point --- not that I expected you to do so -- but here you're making an assumption that they'd never see the footage, based on what the team is saying. You have no way of of verifying that, but choosing to believe everything you're told is completely your decision to make.I'm still trying to figure out how coaches would gain anything by footage they don't see.
It depends how you mean future damage. There's a poster in this thread that already spoke about how the Patriots organization "consistently" keeps doing things like this. I am not sure how the bogus Rams' walkthrough story or Deflategate could have been avoided by the organization {if you believe the footballs were never adjusted in the john}. Maybe keeping Mike Kensil from entering the stadium for the AFCCG? So you have the taping infraction vs. the Jets and then this filming in Cleveland as things actually done by the organization, with culpability readily admitted both times.Yeah, I'm confused at what future damage this does if it really is a small fine.
It might tip the scales for a few people INSIDE New England.To everyone outside of New England, the perspective was already that they are cheaters. I don't think this makes it any worse.
What are they going to do, make the rubble bounce?Even should the NFL come out, say they believe the Patriots, and levels a minor punishment ... the damage has been done in terms of national perspective
If it's true that NFL Securty got involved almost from minute one in Cleveland, there is no reason to expect the Bengals coaching staff to have seen any footage.Schefter was on EEI today. He basically said the league should be able to get to the bottom of this by later this week. He doesn't think it will be a huge deal, but there could be a punishment, and he was unwilling to go beyond that, as he hadn't seen the tape. Now the hosts (Ordway and Merloni, so consider the sources here) were saying the Bengals coaching staff are all up in arms about this, but Schefter wouldn't go there.
I will explain my experience. There are multiple signal callers especially when giving offensive playcalls. One give the real signal and one gives the dummy signal. It is hard to tell which signal is the correct one and if teams are smart the signals change from week to week since the signals can be seen on TV copy and in some instances on the coaches copy. A lot of teams in my experience also uses wrist coaches that have the plays or formations on it. Could you gain something from seeing the signals? In a vacuum, yes. But, most every teams changes up their signals from week-to-week and if they don't they are not smart.That doesn't address the point --- not that I expected you to do so -- but here you're making an assumption that they'd never see the footage, based on what the team is saying. You have no way of of verifying that, but choosing to believe everything you're told is completely your decision to make.
I'm done. Take your last shot or send a PM
Well, an advance scout is always at the game for the next week's opponent, hence his job title. If this didn't happen this week and they had chosen a different game, I doubt it changes much of the narrative and potentially makes it worse. If this same scenario occurred but the other team was the Chiefs or Ravens, all hell would break loose. One of the few things working in their favor is that it was a 1-12 team they have no shot of seeing in the playoffs, so if they were indeed being shady, it seems an odd choice to pick your time and be blatant. Talk to the other teams they've played and see if anyone else chimes in that something suspicious happened at any of their games, if they were decked out in Pats gear it should be easy enough to have spotted them in the press box before this.I'd think that there might be a steady string of emails among the production team (production manager, director, assistant director, cameraman, sound recorder, editor and possibly more) on scheduling (why they chose THIS game to shoot) and shots to get for the video. That would certainly help define intent and better solidify the Patriot organization's claim of some separation from the video crew. If the Pats are speaking the truth, then the "paper" trail should be a big help. I'd imagine if the cameraman was willing to delete the footage, then the production team would be okay with turning over email records.
Is there any way the Pats can retroactively be punished for cheating in their comeback against the Falcons, so that their punishment is to forfeit the Super Bowl and have the fourth quarter wiped clear of the the memories of everyone who watched it? Because I'd sign up for that in a heartbeat.Only speaking from experience as someone who lives on the other coast, but there had been a noticeable change in recent years -- particularly after the 28-3 game -- of how NFL fans talked about the Patriots in conversation. That the acknowledgement of their success had finally overcome the reputation as cheaters. When this story broke yesterday, a couple of those same people reverted to their former opinions ... one even said that he "should've known that they'd never stopped cheating."
You don't know the half of it. They are masterminds of the most thorough and complex cheating scheme in the history of mankind.So this entire explanation LITERALLY follows the Spygate 1.0 playbook. If you get caught, say you're with Kraft Productions and lie about what you're actually filming. It's the exact same blueprint.
Ernie Adams basement probably has thousands of VHS tapes in it.
Ernie strikes me as more of a Betamax enthusiast.Ernie Adams basement probably has thousands of VHS tapes in it.
Why are you releasing this information on a public forum? PM me your papers.I still believe we are leasing Russian spy satellites, why else did Kraft give a ring to Putin
As a relatively recent convert to Patriots fandom, by far the best part of the experience is tasting the delicious, delicious tears of the haters. So long as the Pats don’t suffer any material consequences for this screw-up, the fuel it adds to the “cheaters!!” fire is a feature rather than a bug as far as I’m concerned.Even should the NFL come out, say they believe the Patriots, and levels a minor punishment ... the damage has been done in terms of national perspective
Great point. The only better scenario would be to send the advance scout out the week before their bye and had him scout a game featuring teams they weren't playing this year - if only to avoid any potential b.s.Well, an advance scout is always at the game for the next week's opponent, hence his job title. If this didn't happen this week and they had chosen a different game, I doubt it changes much of the narrative and potentially makes it worse. If this same scenario occurred but the other team was the Chiefs or Ravens, all hell would break loose. One of the few things working in their favor is that it was a 1-12 team they have no shot of seeing in the playoffs, so if they were indeed being shady, it seems an odd choice to pick your time and be blatant. Talk to the other teams they've played and see if anyone else chimes in that something suspicious happened at any of their games, if they were decked out in Pats gear it should be easy enough to have spotted them in the press box before this.
Sure, except they aren’t sending an advance scout to a team they aren’t playing soon and the production crew and the football ops department aren’t collaborating on this.Great point. The only better scenario would be to send the advance scout out the week before their bye and had him scout a game featuring teams they weren't playing this year - if only to avoid any potential b.s.
The stupidity angle gets overplayed.I just don't understand how none of the PR people for either the organization or the production company thought "maybe we shouldn't do this". I know it likelyl amounted to nothing but they deserve a fine because of stupidity.
Don't underestimate the stupidity of the people hired to do the taping.The stupidity angle gets overplayed.
Damn so Brady wants to play WAY past 45It's going to be great like in 2007 after Spygate, 2014 after Deflategate and 20165 after Brady was handed a four game suspension, Belichick will now use this as motivation and the team will go on to the SB and when they win it, heads across America will explode.
And as far as the Bengals being "livid" over the Patriots' illegal videotaping; they should be livid about how terrible they are as a team, be livid about that you bozos.
I think it was literally as stupid as forgetting to say "hey guys (independent contractors), you know how you'd normally do B-roll? Yeah, you can't do that because of a stupid asinine rule that says you can't shoot anything that is already visible to 60-80K people in the stadium, and the millions watching at home (depending on game action), and the people that buy the all-22 footage or we will get royally screwed".I just don't understand how none of the PR people for either the organization or the production company thought "maybe we shouldn't do this". I know it likelyl amounted to nothing but they deserve a fine because of stupidity.
But that’s not really how it goes. You’ve worked, right? Every job gives you a manual, vetted by lawyers, that tells you the do’s and dont’s of the job. There can’t be that many rules related to videoing game action in a football stadium. It’s dumb this restriction wasn’t memorialized and fronted for these employees.I think it was literally as stupid as forgetting to say "hey guys (independent contractors), you know how you'd normally do B-roll? Yeah, you can't do that because of a stupid asinine rule that says you can't shoot anything that is already visible to 60-80K people in the stadium, and the millions watching at home (depending on game action), and the people that buy the all-22 footage or we will get royally screwed".
This will be the worst part of it. This will be a fine for failure to adhere to a rule that serves no purpose considering the existence of the all-22 footage to anyone willing to pony up the bucks to pay for it.
As to the bolded, what the production crew did or didn't capture for B-roll on other features wouldn't be very relevant, unless they highlighted people in similar roles who's job it was to watch the action from the press box.I like Belichick but despise the Patriots. This whole thing seems really dumb. Not as ridiculous as deflategate turned out to be, but is is early.
It shouldn't take much time to get it sorted one way or another. They have the tape. The tape either is either focused in a way that can help a team or it is not. I can't imagine football professionals watching it and not being able to recognize that fairly quickly. Even the '8 minutes' thing should be easy to unravel. Was that 8 minutes focused specifically on offense or defense? Was the taping stopped early, so we don't know how long it would have gone otherwise? Was it just 8 minutes of mostly broad panning around in the context of the feature? Solid chunks of footage focused on the sideline in a specific way? I just can't imagine much ambiguity.
I doubt the league would be able to get B-Roll from the other features in this series to be able to compare, but I suppose that could be another thing they want to look at.
Looks like a big nothingburger. Can't be too hard to figure things out quickly.
The Jim Whalen/equipment staff Do Your Job has multiple shots of game action, including some that at least appears from the sideline near-end zone POV that do not appear to be all-22 or typical TV footage. Now, just about every game has NFL films on the sideline as well and we do not know if the Patriots content team is getting footage from them exclusively (until the Browns/Bengals issues), supplementing their own footage or otherwise. The point being, this is not a new type of content - if anyone thought the Patriots were even up against a line with shooting B-roll (and assuming the process was similar for the Whalen episode) anyone associated with the project or anyone aware of the shooting or final edits with concerns could have raised them. No one did.I think it was literally as stupid as forgetting to say "hey guys (independent contractors), you know how you'd normally do B-roll? Yeah, you can't do that because of a stupid asinine rule that says you can't shoot anything that is already visible to 60-80K people in the stadium, and the millions watching at home (depending on game action), and the people that buy the all-22 footage or we will get royally screwed".
We don't know what we don't know, though, right?It’s dumb this restriction wasn’t memorialized and fronted for these employees.