2019 Coaching Carousel

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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Sure, but as Reich has clearly proved, he had that in Indy and still walked.
I think he got cold feet on ownership (and a GM who was new) and the lack of clarity around Luck's arm. That situation looked a lot worse last year, a drug addict owner, a new GM with a disappointing year under his belt, and a QB with a serious arm injury and no clear indication when he'd be back and whether he'd ever be the same.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I feel like other than maybe Lafleur every hiring has been a good/interesting one. Time for the Jets to shake that up with McCarthy
 

tims4wins

PN23's replacement
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Jul 15, 2005
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Hingham, MA
Feels like the Kitchens hire is a stretch, as is the Kingsbury hire. Fangio has disaster written all over it too. Another year, another horrible round of hires.
 

Morning Woodhead

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Aug 16, 2011
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Feels like the Kitchens hire is a stretch, as is the Kingsbury hire. Fangio has disaster written all over it too. Another year, another horrible round of hires.

Maybe Kitchens is the right guy, but most people had that Browns job as the most desirable. Surprised they ended up with Kitchens.

I’m also surprised kingsbury was the only college coach hired. I thought owners and gm’s were ready to bring in more offensive minded college coaches.
 

Super Nomario

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Nov 5, 2000
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Maybe Kitchens is the right guy, but most people had that Browns job as the most desirable. Surprised they ended up with Kitchens.
I thought it was interesting the two finalists (Kitchens and Stefanski) both had thin resumes. It almost seems like CLE's front office didn't want to hire anyone who might jockey for power. Which makes sense, because Jimmy Haslam is terrible. (this is also why Sashi never hired a proper GM / personnel guy)

EDIT: changed wording to "thin" resumes. I don't mean to imply they can't be good coaches. But they are definitely coming with less gravitas than, say, an Arians or a McDaniels.
 

67YAZ

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Dec 1, 2000
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Feels like the Kitchens hire is a stretch, as is the Kingsbury hire. Fangio has disaster written all over it too. Another year, another horrible round of hires.
I'm in Chicago, I see all the Bears games & am bombarded with the post-game analysis. Fangio has done a superb job - each year his units have been well coached with solid, sometimes excellent game plans, good development of young payers, and a penchant of putting players in positions that highlight their abilities and limit exposure of their shortcomings. Obviously, Mack has put this unit over the top.

If I'm Elway, I might think Fangio is the guy to forge the defense into a top-5 unit deploying Miller similar to the Mack has been this year. And if it's true that Elway picks the coaches, then Elway can pick his offensive system to complement the defense. The guy is smart enough to know that without a QB to build on, the defense is going to have to carry the team for the foreseeable future.
 

cheech13

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Jan 5, 2006
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I read this morning that Fangio is so desperate to be a head coach that he told Elway that he could pick the coaching staff.
Supposedly Gary Kubiak is returning to Denver to be his Offensive Coordinator, per Adam Schefter. Why wouldn't Elway just make him head coach again if he was ready to return to coaching. Seems odd to bring back your SB winning coach in an assistant role, but whatever, I can't make any sense out of most of these hires.
 

tims4wins

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Jul 15, 2005
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I'm in Chicago, I see all the Bears games & am bombarded with the post-game analysis. Fangio has done a superb job - each year his units have been well coached with solid, sometimes excellent game plans, good development of young payers, and a penchant of putting players in positions that highlight their abilities and limit exposure of their shortcomings. Obviously, Mack has put this unit over the top.

If I'm Elway, I might think Fangio is the guy to forge the defense into a top-5 unit deploying Miller similar to the Mack has been this year. And if it's true that Elway picks the coaches, then Elway can pick his offensive system to complement the defense. The guy is smart enough to know that without a QB to build on, the defense is going to have to carry the team for the foreseeable future.
Supposedly Gary Kubiak is returning to Denver to be his Offensive Coordinator, per Adam Schefter. Why wouldn't Elway just make him head coach again if he was ready to return to coaching. Seems odd to bring back your SB winning coach in an assistant role, but whatever, I can't make any sense out of most of these hires.
I have no doubt that Fangio is great at running a defense. But can he run the entire organization? Seems more like a career coordinator type to me. To cheech's point, shouldn't Kubiak be running the team instead, since, y'know, he has done it twice in his career - both Denver and Houston? It just seems like a really weird dynamic.
 

Cellar-Door

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Maybe Kitchens is the right guy, but most people had that Browns job as the most desirable. Surprised they ended up with Kitchens.

I’m also surprised kingsbury was the only college coach hired. I thought owners and gm’s were ready to bring in more offensive minded college coaches.
I think it was as simple as... He turned the offense around completely and worked well with the locker room and their young franchise QB. They and Arizona want to follow the Rams./Bears model: get an innovative offensive play caller to help develop and take pressure off your young franchise QB, and pair him with a good experienced D Coordinator who can run that side of of the ball.
 

67YAZ

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Dec 1, 2000
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I have no doubt that Fangio is great at running a defense. But can he run the entire organization? Seems more like a career coordinator type to me. To cheech's point, shouldn't Kubiak be running the team instead, since, y'know, he has done it twice in his career - both Denver and Houston? It just seems like a really weird dynamic.
The only way to know if Fangio is the next Wade Phillips is to give Fangio three head coaching gigs.

The Kubiak thing is wild. Have to think Kubiak agreed to come back only as an OC and Elway searched for the best HC he could find that would work with that. If I’m Fangio, I’d rent not buy.
 

joe dokes

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Jul 18, 2005
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The only way to know if Fangio is the next Wade Phillips is to give Fangio three head coaching gigs.

The Kubiak thing is wild. Have to think Kubiak agreed to come back only as an OC and Elway searched for the best HC he could find that would work with that. If I’m Fangio, I’d rent not buy.
Kubiak may not want to return to HC given his prior health issues.
 

RedOctober3829

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Jul 19, 2005
38,293
deep inside Guido territory
Supposedly Gary Kubiak is returning to Denver to be his Offensive Coordinator, per Adam Schefter. Why wouldn't Elway just make him head coach again if he was ready to return to coaching. Seems odd to bring back your SB winning coach in an assistant role, but whatever, I can't make any sense out of most of these hires.
It makes sense because Denver blocked anybody from interviewing Kubiak for OC roles.
 

E5 Yaz

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Kubiak stepped away for his health. It's not an easy job, but OC has got to be less stressful than head coach. It might be as simple as Kubiak saying he'd return ... but not in the No. 1 job
 

ethangl

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Mar 28, 2007
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I'm completely mystified by the Kingsbury hiring, but then again, there's no reason to expect much out of a franchise that's appeared in 14 playoff games since the 1940's.

Kingsbury did an awful job at Tech, a place with zero expectations, and obviously thought he'd have to bide his time for at least a year before maybe getting a chance to run a college team again, and his agent, whose whole job is to know this shit, agreed. The lesson, for all of us is, is to see if you can get an interview with the Jets or Cardinals before pulling the trigger on a job offer. You never know.
 

DrewDawg

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Dec 16, 2010
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Feels like the Kitchens hire is a stretch, as is the Kingsbury hire. Fangio has disaster written all over it too. Another year, another horrible round of hires.
With the caveat that a good OC doesn't mean he'll be a good HC:

 

DrewDawg

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Dec 16, 2010
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I want Kingsbury to work for 2 reasons:

1--He's pissed off all the USC "fans"
2--A lot of experts are down on the hire.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I'm completely mystified by the Kingsbury hiring, but then again, there's no reason to expect much out of a franchise that's appeared in 14 playoff games since the 1940's.

Kingsbury did an awful job at Tech, a place with zero expectations, and obviously thought he'd have to bide his time for at least a year before maybe getting a chance to run a college team again, and his agent, whose whole job is to know this shit, agreed. The lesson, for all of us is, is to see if you can get an interview with the Jets or Cardinals before pulling the trigger on a job offer. You never know.
Honestly seems like a no risk hedge on his part to take the USC job when offerred, if he didn't get an NFL HC or OC job he could fall back on an OC job at a high profile school where he won't need to worry about recruiting or defensive staffing.
His offense was great at TT, and a lot of his failures seem to come from areas that aren't a major problem concern for NFL head coaches.
 

nattysez

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Sep 30, 2010
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I think the hard part for Fangio is that he is seen a straight-shooter who doesn't have time to coddle ownership. The chances of ownership and Elway back-channeling with Kubiak about the team are about 100%. But if Kubiak supports Fangio during that back-channeling, maybe it can still work.

Edit: FWIW, I've listened to a little WFAN today and every host -- Boomer, the mid-morning guys, and Fat Mike, are all 100% on board the McCarthy train, which I find baffling.
 

cheech13

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Jan 5, 2006
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He seems to fit the new mold, like a Kyle Shanahan or Sean McVay.
In the sense that he's young, good-looking and offensive-minded, sure, but not sure what else he has in common with either guy. Both Shanahan and McVay had years of experience coaching at the NFL level in a variety of roles, including successful stints as Offensive Coordinators for playoff teams. Kingsbury has none of that on his resume. He hasn't coached at the NFL level. He's never even been on a staff of someone who's coached at that level. He was a terrible college head coach, so bad in fact that his alma mater fired him even though he's something of a local hero. A month ago he wasn't even being considered for collegiate head coaching jobs. It's one of the most baffling hires I've ever seen.
 
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Cellar-Door

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In the sense that he's young, good-looking and offensive-minded, sure, but not sure what else he has in common with either guy. Both Shanahan and McVay had years of experience coaching at the NFL level in a variety of roles, including successful stints as Offensive Coordinators for playoff teams. Kingsbury has none of that on his resume. He hasn't coached at the NFL level. He's never even been on a staff of someone who's coached at that level. He was a terrible college head coach, so bad in fact that his alma mater fired him even though he's something of a local hero. A month ago he wasn't even being considered for collegiate jobs. It's one of the most baffling hires I've ever seen.
The minute he got fired every decent NFL writer I read was talking about him as a guy who was going to be getting NFL OC calls.
HC might be a slight surprise, but his offense has been an inspiration for what the more aggressive NFL guys have been doing. I don't know that NFL experience means much when most of the best guys are grabbing huge parts of his offense and having success with it at the NFL level.
 

soxhop411

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Dec 4, 2009
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Matt Rhule apparently pulled his name out of consideration for the jets job because the jets wouldn’t give him control over hiring his own staff.


Aka jets wanted to pick his staff for him.


Edit: and just as I posted this the jets are going to hire Adam Gase.
 
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Cellar-Door

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Interesting, i guess you can't alienate all your most talented skill position players if you coach a team with no talented skill position players
 

NortheasternPJ

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Nov 16, 2004
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Matt Rhule apparently pulled his name out of consideration for the jets job because the jets wouldn’t give him control over hiring his own staff.


Aka jets wanted to pick his staff for him.


Edit: and just as I posted this the jets are going to hire Adam Gase.
Unreal that they wouldn't let the HC hire his own staff. Enjoy another 50 years of doom.
 

EvilEmpire

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Apr 9, 2007
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Matt Rhule apparently pulled his name out of consideration for the jets job because the jets wouldn’t give him control over hiring his own staff.


Aka jets wanted to pick his staff for him.
I wonder if Rhule wanted to bring a bunch of college coaches over with him and the Jets wanted to make sure a HC coming from the college ranks had a lot of NFL experience on the staff. Maybe more veto power than hand-picking.

I'm curious how much, if any, latitude Gase gets.
 

E5 Yaz

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So it's just Miami and Cincinnati remaining. Eight openings, five of which were held by African-Americans, Six hires thus far, all white.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Dec 4, 2005
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Gase may fail but having McCarthy over him is nuts.
Yeah, I think Gase got hamstring by a poor FO and Tennehill. I think he’d do well with right setup. McCarthy also had some FO issues with personnel but he was maybe the most overrated coach in the game and probably lasted at least few year too long because Rodgers was championing him.
 

Deathofthebambino

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Apr 12, 2005
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I think folks are missing the really interesting part of the Kitchens hire. The Browns apparently didn't think he was the man for the job a couple months ago when they fired Jackson and made Williams the interim HC, and promoted Kitchens from running backs coach to the OC. The team goes 5-3 during that time, and the offense plays well, and they turn around and fire Williams and make Kitchens the head coach?

My guess is Baker Mayfield officially just chose the new head coach of the Cleveland Browns.
 

luckiestman

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Jul 15, 2005
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i didn’t think Gase deserved to be fired in Miami, so now I have to own those words. The most comforting thing is gang green hates this hire so that likely means we are going to the SB.
 

Ralphwiggum

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Jun 27, 2012
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i didn’t think Gase deserved to be fired in Miami, so now I have to own those words. The most comforting thing is gang green hates this hire so that likely means we are going to the SB.
You were high on Bowles, though, if memory serves. Gase seemed to be able to get the Dolphins to play well at times but never seemed able to sustain it. We'll see but if I were betting on this I'd say that the Jets will be looking for yet another new head coach in 3 years.
 

Cellar-Door

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Aug 1, 2006
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I think folks are missing the really interesting part of the Kitchens hire. The Browns apparently didn't think he was the man for the job a couple months ago when they fired Jackson and made Williams the interim HC, and promoted Kitchens from running backs coach to the OC. The team goes 5-3 during that time, and the offense plays well, and they turn around and fire Williams and make Kitchens the head coach?

My guess is Baker Mayfield officially just chose the new head coach of the Cleveland Browns.
They won in big part due to the offense becoming one of of the 3 best in the league over that period. Williams was always a placeholder. I assume that they didn't want to lose the HC, OC, DC all at once to promote the RB coach mid-season. I think it's a good sign for them that they saw the driving force of the turnaround correctly (well part of it, the otherwise part was just the absence of Hue Jackson). Also Kitchens hadn't had a team wide role before, so seeing how he handled being the man on one side of the ball was an important evaluation tool.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Jun 6, 2012
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Kenyan Drake's last five games of '17 he had 91 rushes for 444 yards (4.8/rush). This season Gase basically stapled him to the bench and undermined him in public comments.

I'm thrilled the Jets hired him.
 

Van Everyman

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Apr 30, 2009
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I think folks are missing the really interesting part of the Kitchens hire. The Browns apparently didn't think he was the man for the job a couple months ago when they fired Jackson and made Williams the interim HC, and promoted Kitchens from running backs coach to the OC. The team goes 5-3 during that time, and the offense plays well, and they turn around and fire Williams and make Kitchens the head coach?
They won in big part due to the offense becoming one of of the 3 best in the league over that period. Williams was always a placeholder. I assume that they didn't want to lose the HC, OC, DC all at once to promote the RB coach mid-season. I think it's a good sign for them that they saw the driving force of the turnaround correctly (well part of it, the otherwise part was just the absence of Hue Jackson). Also Kitchens hadn't had a team wide role before, so seeing how he handled being the man on one side of the ball was an important evaluation tool.
In the rush to (rightly) damn Hue Jackson, seems like people are letting Todd Haley off the hook a bit here.
 

luckiestman

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You were high on Bowles, though, if memory serves. Gase seemed to be able to get the Dolphins to play well at times but never seemed able to sustain it. We'll see but if I were betting on this I'd say that the Jets will be looking for yet another new head coach in 3 years.

I am still fine with Bowles. I always said good luck winning with Fitz and Uncle Josh.

If Gase doesn’t ruin Sam, I think we’ll be fine.