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Super Nomario

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Ummmm, isn't taking multiple assistants away an unforgivable sin in BB's eyes?
I think his issue with Mangini was that he was trying to convince guys to come to NYJ while they were supposed to be doing stuff. Just about everybody takes somebody - Crennel took Jeff Davidson, Bill O'Brien took George Godsey, McDaniels was going to take Schuplinski and Joe Judge.

Did a lot better than he did here, that's for sure. GoogeFest was comparable to FyreFest.
They won a Super Bowl with DeDuglielmo. I thought he did a nice job righting the ship that year after a disastrous start, but they had a bunch of injuries the next year. He's not Dante, but who is?
 

NeedleNose

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Due to his connections to Sandusky and related allegations of him being 'in the know', I incorrectly assumed that he was unhireable in the NFL. As a Pats fan it's going to be difficult (for me) to separate how he performs at his job vs. the character of the man doing the job. It's more fun to root for a team when you like the people who are employed by them.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Due to his connections to Sandusky and related allegations of him being 'in the know', I incorrectly assumed that he was unhireable in the NFL. As a Pats fan it's going to be difficult (for me) to separate how he performs at his job vs. the character of the man doing the job. It's more fun to root for a team when you like the people who are employed by them.
I didn't follow this super closely but my understanding is that one coach (McQueary) who arrived at Penn St about a decade after Schiano left claimed that another coach told him that Schiano once said something about seeing Sandusky in the shower with a kid but then that other coach denied ever having that conversation with Schiano or recounting any kind of conversation like that to McQueary.

I have no idea what really happened, and maybe there is something I'm missing about the situation, but that seems like pretty thin gruel for deciding that Schiano is some kind of monster or should be unhireable in the NFL.
 

NeedleNose

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I didn't follow this super closely but my understanding is that one coach (McQueary) who arrived at Penn St about a decade after Schiano left claimed that another coach told him that Schiano once said something about seeing Sandusky in the shower with a kid but then that other coach denied ever having that conversation with Schiano or recounting any kind of conversation like that to McQueary.

I have no idea what really happened, and maybe there is something I'm missing about the situation, but that seems like pretty thin gruel for deciding that Schiano is some kind of monster or should be unhireable in the NFL.
USA today maps it out better than I can (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/02/greg-schiano-patriots-bill-belichick)
 

E5 Yaz

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Due to his connections to Sandusky and related allegations of him being 'in the know', I incorrectly assumed that he was unhireable in the NFL. As a Pats fan it's going to be difficult (for me) to separate how he performs at his job vs. the character of the man doing the job. It's more fun to root for a team when you like the people who are employed by them.
So, you can root for a team employing Schiano because of an accusation that both he and the apparent source deny occurred?
 

cornwalls@6

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That story provides zero new information regarding the questionable, and vehemently denied, accusations of his knowledge regarding Sandusky. It reads much more like a hit piece by someone who doesn't like Schiano personally, and thinks he's an over-rated, big-mouth jerk of a coach. All of which may be true, none of which is morally disqualifying for being hired as DC in the NFL.
 

lexrageorge

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The "accusations" against Schiano should be treated as a farce unless and until someone can provide something more than a 3rd person hearsay account that has been denied by just about everyone involved.
 

Pxer

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Geez, Boyer, too?!

Steve Belichick now a heartbeat away from defensive playcaller.
 

Dogman2

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I think this essentially means they all know McDaniels is the heir apparent and no reason not to get a shot as HC or coordinator elsewhere.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Jerry Schuplinsk is interesting---its a lateral move to a place where the guy above him is less likely to leave (since McD could either leave to be a HC elsehwere in the right situation or be the heir apparent in NE)
 

Pxer

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Yeah, and from everything I know JMcD and Schuplinski are tight, so it wouldn't surprise me to see him as an OC someday under McDaniels. Boyer also seems to be more blocked under Patrick Graham than Schiano in my opinion, but he obviously may see otherwise.

The consistency in preparation and game day responsibilities obviously would be ideal for the Patriots, but Bill and Caserio will obviously make it keep chugging.
 

tims4wins

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Yeah I think Schuplinkski may actually get to be OC in Miami sooner than NE, then Josh could bring him back if he wants down the line.
 

InstaFace

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this feels like an enormous brain drain, more severe than even the 2004-2005 offseason when Weis and Crennel both left. I mean, we just lost over half of our coaching staff, did we not? Even if Belichick is as good a coaching talent scout as he is, well, everything else... it still takes time for them to develop to the point where they're adding the value he needs.
 

Ale Xander

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Is it too crazy to think DMC may be a secondary coach here in 2-4 years? Especially with Schiano coming on board. Or am I just hallucinating?
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Is it too crazy to think DMC may be a secondary coach here in 2-4 years? Especially with Schiano coming on board. Or am I just hallucinating?
I’m still waiting for Jerod Mayo to come back around. I know he said he would consider coaching in the future but wanted to take some time after retiring. Never know which guys will end up making that jump but given the rep of guys like him and DMC it would seem like a good fit.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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I’m still waiting for Jerod Mayo to come back around. I know he said he would consider coaching in the future but wanted to take some time after retiring. Never know which guys will end up making that jump but given the rep of guys like him and DMC it would seem like a good fit.
Mayo’s younger brother is already on the staff as a strength and conditioning coach. I think it’s just a matter of time before Jerod comes back. This offseason would actually be perfect timing, as Flores was the LB positional coach from 16-18 and I think he essentially kept those duties this year in addition to being DC.
 

boca

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Jul 31, 2006
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Yeah saw that - I don't blame him since he is getting passed by for DC. Lot of brain drain this year.
Yeah seems like a lot of turnover this year compared to previous years. Saw this earlier-

Flores — with Pats since 2004

O’Shea — joined organization in 2009

Boyer — with Pats since 2006

Daly — started with NE in 2014

Schuplinski — joined Pats in 2013

That’s a lot of experience heading out the door.
 

E5 Yaz

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It's probably time to break out a separate thread on changes to the Patriots coaching staff
 

boca

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But Schiano headed in. Lots of experience there too.
Yeah I suppose a better way of putting it is that there is a lot of Patriots experience heading out the door. Hard to replicate being with Belichick no matter how experienced the outside coach is coming in.
 

Van Everyman

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Agreed, tho this feels like a guy who Belichick has been particularly close with.

I’m also wondering if Belichick wanted to hire Schiano last year—as was rumored—but was urged by Kraft to hold off until the Sandusky studf blew over.
 

Morgan's Magic Snowplow

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Yeah saw that - I don't blame him since he is getting passed by for DC. Lot of brain drain this year.
Daly and Boyer might also believe that Stephen Belichick is being groomed to eventually take the DC role, or at least that he'll be given every opportunity to win the job.

I don't see BB promoting his son unless he thought he could handle the job. At the same time, he has kind of gone out of his way to try to bring Stephen along, making him the safeties coach, a responsibility that involved working with some smart veteran players with whom he already had relationships from Rutgers (McCourty and Harmon), and now bringing in Schiano to be DC, with whom Stephen also already had a strong relationship. He's certainly doing everything possible to put Stephen into a position to thrive and grow within the organization.

BB is all about winning and rewarding people for performance but things get complicated with family and its pretty clear that the whole football family thing, from his father's mentoring of him and now his mentoring of his sons, is really important to Belichick. I don't think it would be crazy for Boyer or Daly to look at this whole situation and wonder if they would get a truly fair shake.
 

Super Nomario

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I wonder how many spots will be filled from within as opposed to from outside. Pats have at least two defensive coaching assistants. DeMarcus Covington has been a coaching assistant for two years and prior to that coached defensive line in college. He'd be the obvious "next man up" for DL coach. Brian Belichick has been a coaching assistant for two years as well. Mike Pelligrino has for four seasons; I believe he is on defense as well although the media guide does not specify. On the offensive side, Cole Popovich has been a college OL couch (so he could slide into the TE coach role, with Caley maybe shifting to WR) and Atif Austin looks groomed to take over for Fears. How many of these guys get a crack, versus bringing in folks from outside? I could definitely see Schiano wanting to bring one or two assistants with him.
 

Papelbon's Poutine

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Daly and Boyer might also believe that Stephen Belichick is being groomed to eventually take the DC role, or at least that he'll be given every opportunity to win the job.

I don't see BB promoting his son unless he thought he could handle the job. At the same time, he has kind of gone out of his way to try to bring Stephen along, making him the safeties coach, a responsibility that involved working with some smart veteran players with whom he already had relationships from Rutgers (McCourty and Harmon), and now bringing in Schiano to be DC, with whom Stephen also already had a strong relationship. He's certainly doing everything possible to put Stephen into a position to thrive and grow within the organization.

BB is all about winning and rewarding people for performance but things get complicated with family and its pretty clear that the whole football family thing, from his father's mentoring of him and now his mentoring of his sons, is really important to Belichick. I don't think it would be crazy for Boyer or Daly to look at this whole situation and wonder if they would get a truly fair shake.
Isn’t his daughter involved in the front office in some capacity as well?
 

The Social Chair

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Daly and Boyer might also believe that Stephen Belichick is being groomed to eventually take the DC role, or at least that he'll be given every opportunity to win the job.

I don't see BB promoting his son unless he thought he could handle the job. At the same time, he has kind of gone out of his way to try to bring Stephen along, making him the safeties coach, a responsibility that involved working with some smart veteran players with whom he already had relationships from Rutgers (McCourty and Harmon), and now bringing in Schiano to be DC, with whom Stephen also already had a strong relationship. He's certainly doing everything possible to put Stephen into a position to thrive and grow within the organization.

BB is all about winning and rewarding people for performance but things get complicated with family and its pretty clear that the whole football family thing, from his father's mentoring of him and now his mentoring of his sons, is really important to Belichick. I don't think it would be crazy for Boyer or Daly to look at this whole situation and wonder if they would get a truly fair shake.
This seems right. Every defensive position coach is gone now except for Stephen Belichick.
 

Super Nomario

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There's a precedent for a similar level of defensive turnover - 2004-2006. Crennel left after 2004, and in 2005 they only had two defensive position coaches - Dean Pees with the linebackers and Pepper Johnson with the DL. Mangini was the DC, but he left after one year. Pees became DC, leaving only Johnson, and the Pats promoted two assistants to fill positional roles - Joel Collier to run the secondary, and Matt Patricia to run the linebacking corps. FWIW, that 2006 D was one of the very best of this era.
 

TheoShmeo

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It will be interesting to see if Bill is at all pissed at Flores for taking three guys with him. I'm guessing that since it's not the MFJs that it will be all fine. But leaving only one holdover coach on defense (though you can't blame Flores for Daly going to KC) kind of sucks. Schiano is respected by Bill but he's new, and unless BB promotes from within (which I expect), there will be a lot of new. In the end, Belichick is the de facto defensive coordinator so it might not matter all that much. Still, as others have noted, this is a lot of change in one season.
 

tims4wins

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It will be interesting to see if Bill is at all pissed at Flores for taking three guys with him. I'm guessing that since it's not the MFJs that it will be all fine. But leaving only one holdover coach on defense (though you can't blame Flores for Daly going to KC) kind of sucks. Schiano is respected by Bill but he's new, and unless BB promotes from within (which I expect), there will be a lot of new. In the end, Belichick is the de facto defensive coordinator so it might not matter all that much. Still, as others have noted, this is a lot of change in one season.
I don't think he will be pissed since they were all promotions and guys who were blocked in their current positions.
 
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I assumed that, post-Mangini, anytime someone leaves and takes coaches it's with BB's blessing. I've heard nothing the past month or so that dissuades me from the suspicion Flores had permission.

Edit fucking autocorrect.
 

Al Zarilla

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They had a little fun with the pic on NFLN Good Morning Football. Look who's in there, the GOAT, first time in four years (no idea if right), with a smile no less, and he just lost the GOAT TE. Andy Reid with his last time the pro bowl was in Hawaii outfit, and he hasn't changed since. Tree trunk legs too. Jay Gruden looks catatonic, or something.