2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

lovegtm

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Love this bit of Brad's philosophy. Learn good defensive habits early. Show you can defend, and know where you should be in the defensive scheme, and you'll get playing time as a youngster. Really smart approach, especially for kids who have been too focused for too long on becoming offensive superstars.
Himmelsbach had a good snippet in the Globe yesterday about how Langford is getting there a couple hours early for every game and running through defensive tendencies of opposing teams with Mazzula and other staffers. I really like that they’re using resources on Langford this way rather than sticking him in Maine. Being a good team and individual defender goes a long way to giving him a high floor.
 

lexrageorge

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I mentioned in the game thread after today's tough loss that the Celtics are 7-4 against the top 8 WCF teams. I decided to do a quick comparison to the East's contenders. As the Celtics have not yet played the Jazz, I did the records for the other teams both with and without the Jazz:

Celtics: 7-4
Lakers: 1-1
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: DNP
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 2-0
Memphis: 1-0

Bucks: 7-3, 6-2 w/o Utah:
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 2-0
Harden & The Refs: 1-0
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 1-0

Raptors: 4-5, 3-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: DNP
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-0
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 1-1
Memphis: DNP

Heat: 5-8, 4-7 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 0-2
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 1-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 1-0
Memphis: 1-1

Philly: 6-6, 5-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-0
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 0-2
Memphis: 1-0

Pacers: 7-5, 6-4 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 0-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 2-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 2-0

Meanwhile, looking at how the West's top teams have fared against the 6 legit ECF teams:

Lakers: 3-5
Denver: 5-3
Clippers: 6-4
Rockets: 5-2
Jazz: 4-5
OKC: 2-7
Dallas: 5-4
Memphis: 1-6
 

BigSoxFan

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And the 3 losses to LAC/LAL/DEN were by a combined 9 points. Very encouraged with how we’ve competed against the West. If this team can somehow make it out of the EC gauntlet, I’ll be pretty excited about their chances against whichever LA team is there.
 

DeadlySplitter

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it really sucks Toronto has also evolved into a force. Their chances this year would be vastly better if there were just the Bucks to worry about in the East, but the 3 seed is not that desirable at all...

their last game on March 20th might decide it.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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I mentioned in the game thread after today's tough loss that the Celtics are 7-4 against the top 8 WCF teams. I decided to do a quick comparison to the East's contenders. As the Celtics have not yet played the Jazz, I did the records for the other teams both with and without the Jazz:

Celtics: 7-4
Lakers: 1-1
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: DNP
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 2-0
Memphis: 1-0

Bucks: 7-3, 6-2 w/o Utah:
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 2-0
Harden & The Refs: 1-0
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 1-0

Raptors: 4-5, 3-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: DNP
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-0
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 1-1
Memphis: DNP

Heat: 5-8, 4-7 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 0-2
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 1-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 1-0
Memphis: 1-1

Philly: 6-6, 5-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-0
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 0-2
Memphis: 1-0

Pacers: 7-5, 6-4 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 0-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 2-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 2-0

Meanwhile, looking at how the West's top teams have fared against the 6 legit ECF teams:

Lakers: 3-5
Denver: 5-3
Clippers: 6-4
Rockets: 5-2
Jazz: 4-5
OKC: 2-7
Dallas: 5-4
Memphis: 1-6
I applaud your notation of the Houston games. Its perfect!
 

lovegtm

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I mentioned in the game thread after today's tough loss that the Celtics are 7-4 against the top 8 WCF teams. I decided to do a quick comparison to the East's contenders. As the Celtics have not yet played the Jazz, I did the records for the other teams both with and without the Jazz:

Celtics: 7-4
Lakers: 1-1
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: DNP
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 2-0
Memphis: 1-0

Bucks: 7-3, 6-2 w/o Utah:
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 2-0
Harden & The Refs: 1-0
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 1-0

Raptors: 4-5, 3-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: DNP
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-0
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 1-1
Memphis: DNP

Heat: 5-8, 4-7 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 0-2
Denver: 0-1
Clippers: 0-2
Harden & The Refs: 1-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-0
Dallas: 1-0
Memphis: 1-1

Philly: 6-6, 5-5 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 1-0
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 1-1
Dallas: 0-2
Memphis: 1-0

Pacers: 7-5, 6-4 w/o Utah.
Lakers: 1-0
Denver: 1-1
Clippers: 0-1
Harden & The Refs: 0-1
Jazz: 1-1
OKC: 2-0
Dallas: 0-1
Memphis: 2-0

Meanwhile, looking at how the West's top teams have fared against the 6 legit ECF teams:

Lakers: 3-5
Denver: 5-3
Clippers: 6-4
Rockets: 5-2
Jazz: 4-5
OKC: 2-7
Dallas: 5-4
Memphis: 1-6
Yeah, the Celtics have been by far the best team in the league against top-10 net rating competition They’re + 6.3 to Milwaukee’s +2.5. Toronto is a -3.7 and Miami a -3.2.
 

lovegtm

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I get that it's without Kemba and so they're not as ready for it, but it felt like the Celtics really went away from their base offense late to try to get Tatum isos. The problem is that that sacrifices the whole theory of their attack, which is that any one of Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Kemba can come out of the corner and get the ball with an advantage, you don't know exactly where to load up, and then the Celtics can get a secondary attack.

They were falling into a situation where the floor was poorly spaced, Tatum was just in the middle with easy help from the 2 defenders at each nail, and the possession just went in the tank.

If they're going to be without Kemba at times down the stretch, they're going to need to install some better stuff than this.
 

DJnVa

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I get that it's without Kemba and so they're not as ready for it, but it felt like the Celtics really went away from their base offense late to try to get Tatum isos. The problem is that that sacrifices the whole theory of their attack, which is that any one of Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Kemba can come out of the corner and get the ball with an advantage, you don't know exactly where to load up, and then the Celtics can get a secondary attack.

They were falling into a situation where the floor was poorly spaced, Tatum was just in the middle with easy help from the 2 defenders at each nail, and the possession just went in the tank.

If they're going to be without Kemba at times down the stretch, they're going to need to install some better stuff than this.

They talked a little about this on Karalis's Locked On Celtics podcast (which you should listen to--it's 5 days/week). They said basically what you say here, but one of the hosts was saying that no one else was making shots, and that this game just lent itself to hoping Tatum's hot hand would carry them through. Sometimes you just ride the hot hand. The Celtics did score 93 points in the last 3 quarters of the game, so it's hard to say the offense went in the tank too often.
 

joe dokes

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I get that it's without Kemba and so they're not as ready for it, but it felt like the Celtics really went away from their base offense late to try to get Tatum isos. The problem is that that sacrifices the whole theory of their attack, which is that any one of Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Kemba can come out of the corner and get the ball with an advantage, you don't know exactly where to load up, and then the Celtics can get a secondary attack.
They were falling into a situation where the floor was poorly spaced, Tatum was just in the middle with easy help from the 2 defenders at each nail, and the possession just went in the tank.
If they're going to be without Kemba at times down the stretch, they're going to need to install some better stuff than this.
OTOH-- Hayward missed two layups that would have radically changed the complexion of the game. Their execution was far from perfect, but it was good enough against a really good team that also has some good defenders.
 

128

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I get that it's without Kemba and so they're not as ready for it, but it felt like the Celtics really went away from their base offense late to try to get Tatum isos. The problem is that that sacrifices the whole theory of their attack, which is that any one of Brown/Tatum/Hayward/Kemba can come out of the corner and get the ball with an advantage, you don't know exactly where to load up, and then the Celtics can get a secondary attack.

They were falling into a situation where the floor was poorly spaced, Tatum was just in the middle with easy help from the 2 defenders at each nail, and the possession just went in the tank.

If they're going to be without Kemba at times down the stretch, they're going to need to install some better stuff than this.
Good points. I think the C's can learn a ton from yesterday's game.
 

lovegtm

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They talked a little about this on Karalis's Locked On Celtics podcast (which you should listen to--it's 5 days/week). They said basically what you say here, but one of the hosts was saying that no one else was making shots, and that this game just lent itself to hoping Tatum's hot hand would carry them through. Sometimes you just ride the hot hand. The Celtics did score 93 points in the last 3 quarters of the game, so it's hard to say the offense went in the tank too often.
Yeah, I like Karalis's work, I listen to it in the gym a lot.

I don't think going to Tatum in the fashion they did was a no-hope move: as joe dokes noted, the Celtics easily could have won. But NBA offense is really hard when 3 guys can load up on you without an easy counter, no matter how good you are. The floor wasn't properly spaced and the offense wasn't properly set up to leverage Tatum, imo.

That's fine--they're new to this whole "Tatum is awesome and we need to build an offense around him" thing, since he didn't warrant that until recently. But it's something that def can be improved.
 

Eddie Jurak

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I think the main issue for them was a failure to adjust to the looks LA was throwing at Tatum. Both Tatum himself and the team as a whole needs to learn to handle that better.
 

NomarsFool

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OTOH-- Hayward missed two layups that would have radically changed the complexion of the game. Their execution was far from perfect, but it was good enough against a really good team that also has some good defenders.
He also missed 5 3P, if I recall correctly. With Kemba on the floor and/or a more normal shooting day for Hayward, they win that game.
 

DJnVa

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I think the main issue for them was a failure to adjust to the looks LA was throwing at Tatum. Both Tatum himself and the team as a whole needs to learn to handle that better.
I think I posted about this in the Tatum thread. Stevens said after game that what LA did to him is something he hasn't seen a lot of and they now have a lot film to look at, whereas before it was talking to him about it, but until he sees it consistently in a game, it's hard to adjust to.
 

benhogan

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That's fine--they're new to this whole "Tatum is awesome and we need to build an offense around him" thing, since he didn't warrant that until recently. But it's something that def can be improved.
Yea, I think we'll see some more interesting sets by the Celts/Brad over the next 25 games to take advantage of the attention Tatum will draw. Regardless of the final score, yesterday was a massive win/jump for the team IMO. Another big stage (post-Kawhi Show) for Tatum and not only unafraid of the spotlight but thriving under it. I absolutely loved Jaylen's attitude/quotes post-game. He astutely realizes he can get more open looks and is licking his chops to take advantage of them. Tatum's leap will carry JB forward (like JB carried JT forward earlier this season), their play is intertwined and will push each other forward.

Smart/Hayward/JB all shot poorly, Wanamaker stole minutes from Kemba. A 2-pt road loss to a motivated Lakers team has to change the narrative that it's just a 3-horse race for a Championship. Portland/Utah road games after a tough loss will be a good mental test for this young team.

Lastly, the JT/JB velocity leap is catching most of the NBA by surprise. I'd expect Brad to adjust more quickly than the rest of the league which will greatly benefit the C's.
 

joe dokes

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That's fine--they're new to this whole "Tatum is awesome and we need to build an offense around him" thing, since he didn't warrant that until recently. But it's something that def can be improved.
That's a good point.
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, I like Karalis's work, I listen to it in the gym a lot.

I don't think going to Tatum in the fashion they did was a no-hope move: as joe dokes noted, the Celtics easily could have won. But NBA offense is really hard when 3 guys can load up on you without an easy counter, no matter how good you are. The floor wasn't properly spaced and the offense wasn't properly set up to leverage Tatum, imo.

That's fine--they're new to this whole "Tatum is awesome and we need to build an offense around him" thing, since he didn't warrant that until recently. But it's something that def can be improved.
When watching the replay of that out-of-bounds play that resulted in the absurd technical* against the Celtics, it did appear that there were at least 3 of 4 green jerseys in the same spot on the floor (including Tatum). There's definitely room for improvement. As for Tatum, I recall that Paul Pierce had to go through a similar adjustment when defenses started keying on him.

*: The one beef we can have with the officiating is the technical. In real time at game speed, there will always be calls that get missed, and fouls are often judgment calls. However, officials can easily decide to walk away when a player is complaining about a borderline call in a charged situation. There is absolutely no need to T a player up because he gives a giant WTF gesture 5 milliseconds after the call. The officials are paid to be better than that.
 

DJnVa

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*: The one beef we can have with the officiating is the technical.
Can we have beef about them calling Jaylen Brown out of bounds? I'm differentiating between the call of out of bounds and the awarding of the technical.
 
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PedroKsBambino

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When watching the replay of that out-of-bounds play that resulted in the absurd technical* against the Celtics, it did appear that there were at least 3 of 4 green jerseys in the same spot on the floor (including Tatum). There's definitely room for improvement. As for Tatum, I recall that Paul Pierce had to go through a similar adjustment when defenses started keying on him.

*: The one beef we can have with the officiating is the technical. In real time at game speed, there will always be calls that get missed, and fouls are often judgment calls. However, officials can easily decide to walk away when a player is complaining about a borderline call in a charged situation. There is absolutely no need to T a player up because he gives a giant WTF gesture 5 milliseconds after the call. The officials are paid to be better than that.
I think AD going over the back is a call you can miss in real-time, but when you do a replay review (which they did) you have to hold them accountable for missing it. The finger touch I think was clear enough on replay they should have gotten it right as well; some might disagree there. If you apply a review standard of deference perhaps you can defend that aspect of the call...but that is also irrelevant given the clear foul came first anyway.

As others noted, the Brown being out of bounds call was more absurd and less defensible than even the tech was.

The blown goaltend in the first half obviously can't just be considered 'two points more' to the final score, but it was an egregious missed call.

I think the officials are paid to be better than all of those. I am not asking perfection, of course, I agree with you that's not realistic. But in each case above I think they were below the standard we should have.

As a related comment, I think the idea that we "can always find mistakes both ways" is lazy and misplaced---if a Laker fan can list what the equivalent calls are we can compare and contrast. There is no basis for concluding that calls always even out within a single game; often, they do not. That is not because of bias or because someone bet on the game (at least, not usually) but the impact can be differential. Players having off-nights shooting happen and impact results---officials having off nights and missing calls happen too, and those also impact results.
 

lovegtm

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I had fun with this video--the Celtics went to zone for most of the 4th quarter with Kanter, and blew the game open. Snyder quickly called timeout to get Mitchell and shooting in, but the Celtics did a great job even then. Grant Williams was particularly impressive coming up from the baseline snuffing out various weakside action. They went away from it once the starters came in to close things out, but I'd like to see this look again. Putting Tatum/Smart/Grant/Wanamaker together gives you 4 smart, long, active guys. Utah is a very good 3-point shooting team, and there just wasn't a whole lot there for them.

I'd like to see Jaylen more in this kind of scheme too: it could take away a lot of the harder help/off-ball decisions that give him trouble, and let him keep the action in front of him, while using his speed and length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0DgniLDJpA
 

benhogan

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I had fun with this video--the Celtics went to zone for most of the 4th quarter with Kanter, and blew the game open. Snyder quickly called timeout to get Mitchell and shooting in, but the Celtics did a great job even then. Grant Williams was particularly impressive coming up from the baseline snuffing out various weakside action. They went away from it once the starters came in to close things out, but I'd like to see this look again. Putting Tatum/Smart/Grant/Wanamaker together gives you 4 smart, long, active guys. Utah is a very good 3-point shooting team, and there just wasn't a whole lot there for them.

I'd like to see Jaylen more in this kind of scheme too: it could take away a lot of the harder help/off-ball decisions that give him trouble, and let him keep the action in front of him, while using his speed and length.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b0DgniLDJpA
as always, Thanks for putting that together.

Celtics put up a 20-13 advantage in those first 7 minutes of the 4th using the bench in a 2-1-2 zone.
I like the idea of Brad developing that with the 2nd unit (MS, Kanter, Grant) + Tatum + JB to throw a change of pace at the opponent to start the 4th quarter. It really caught Utah off guard, they had some terrible, out of rhythm looks/shots (after Utah scored 31pts inQ3)

playoff rotation alert: Plug KEMBA in, take all of Wanamakers 22mins + 13 mins from others and there you have an example of the Celtics playoff rotation (except 1 uninspiring minute from Semi o_O).

That has to be one of the best WC road trips in the CBS era. Even the Laker game had some small wins embedded in it.
 

InstaFace

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the laker game was a couple of flukes, bad calls or a bounce here or there away from being a statement road win against the best team in the West. I have no complaints about the way the team is playing right now, other than the fact that Kemba isn't.

The next real tests for this team will be the Utah return engagement next Friday 3/6, followed by @MIL on Thu 3/12. Then it's @TOR on Fri 3/20. By the time we get to vsMIL on 4/5, we'll both be Load Managing in advance of the playoffs. I don't want to say the other games don't matter, especially the Miami and Indy games, but by comparison, we're not likely to learn anything new about this team from other games.
 

lovegtm

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the laker game was a couple of flukes, bad calls or a bounce here or there away from being a statement road win against the best team in the West. I have no complaints about the way the team is playing right now, other than the fact that Kemba isn't.

The next real tests for this team will be the Utah return engagement next Friday 3/6, followed by @MIL on Thu 3/12. Then it's @TOR on Fri 3/20. By the time we get to vsMIL on 4/5, we'll both be Load Managing in advance of the playoffs. I don't want to say the other games don't matter, especially the Miami and Indy games, but by comparison, we're not likely to learn anything new about this team from other games.
Going to learn a lot in the next game: Houston at home. The Rockets are killing people right now.
 

bigq

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the laker game was a couple of flukes, bad calls or a bounce here or there away from being a statement road win against the best team in the West. I have no complaints about the way the team is playing right now, other than the fact that Kemba isn't.

The next real tests for this team will be the Utah return engagement next Friday 3/6, followed by @MIL on Thu 3/12. Then it's @TOR on Fri 3/20. By the time we get to vsMIL on 4/5, we'll both be Load Managing in advance of the playoffs. I don't want to say the other games don't matter, especially the Miami and Indy games, but by comparison, we're not likely to learn anything new about this team from other games.
I’d say the next real test will be on Saturday vs Houston.

It will be interesting to see how Stevens manages load down the stretch and how hard he decides to push the team for the #2 seed.
 

benhogan

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I’d say the next real test will be on Saturday vs Houston.

It will be interesting to see how Stevens manages load down the stretch and how hard he decides to push the team for the #2 seed.
CBS should load manage Kanter for the Rocket game and go with Theis/GW at the 5. Along with some minutes for our Best5 (If Kemba plays?)
 

HomeRunBaker

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CBS should load manage Kanter for the Rocket game and go with Theis/GW at the 5. Along with some minutes for our Best5 (If Kemba plays?)
Brad used Kanter, Ojeleye and Grant at times as the 5 behind Theis. Kanter couldn’t keep up with the quickness he shouldn’t see any time this game. I’d expect more Grant as he matches up decent with Tucker/Covington at the 5.
 

RetractableRoof

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According to Ainge, it's conceivable that TL might be able to take the court as early as this weekend. That would be an interesting development against Houston.
 

NomarsFool

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As much as I want to see TL back, I think I'd rather see him come back against Brooklyn. Houston's going to be a tough matchup and I really, really want to beat them :)
 

RetractableRoof

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As much as I want to see TL back, I think I'd rather see him come back against Brooklyn. Houston's going to be a tough matchup and I really, really want to beat them :)
Maybe I'm off base, but wouldn't he be more of an asset against a small ball lineup as a Tigger level rim defender? I guess you want defensive cohesion, I just think there are going to be spots I say, I wish TL was in there right now.
 

InstaFace

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TL has shown he's got high upside int he rim-protecting side of defense, but also shown that he can get taken outside and then taken for a ride defensively. I think he needs a lot more seasoning before we'd have confidence that he'd be better out there than Kanter. Whatever else might be said about Kanter, he can rebound like a mofo and score a half-dozen different ways and does so without really screwing up our offensive rhythm.
 

RetractableRoof

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A few of things I'd consider: 1) Kanter is still working his way back from something that was limiting him something fierce - I'd prefer the Cs still handle him w/ baby gloves if there is any question. 2) Kanter is most vulnerable defensively with speed - I think the Rockets bring a bit of that, especially with a small ball center 3) If we want confidence in TL, he's got to get reps, and Houston is a team likely to create a lot of um... teachable moments.

Ideally integrating him back in comes with a team win as well, but either way the clock is ticking on TL being able to contribute in the playoffs, I'd rather he start getting the reps today versus deferring to tomorrow.
 
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chilidawg

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TL has shown he's got high upside int he rim-protecting side of defense, but also shown that he can get taken outside and then taken for a ride defensively. I think he needs a lot more seasoning before we'd have confidence that he'd be better out there than Kanter. Whatever else might be said about Kanter, he can rebound like a mofo and score a half-dozen different ways and does so without really screwing up our offensive rhythm.
To my eye he's not bad at guarding the perimeter, it's that he's bad about chasing shot blocks as a help defender and that get's him out of position sometimes defensively.
 

joe dokes

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A few of things I'd consider: 1) Kanter is still working his way back from something that was limiting him something fierce - I'd prefer the Cs still handle him w/ baby gloves if there is any question. 2) Kanter is most vulnerable defensively with speed - I think the Rockets bring a bit of that, especially with a small ball center 3) If we want confidence in TL, he's got to get reps, and Houston is a team likely to create a lot of um... teachable moments.

Ideally integrating him back in comes with a team win as well, but either way the clock is ticking on TL being able to contribute in the playoffs, I'd rather he start getting the reps today versus deferring to tomorrow.

Tucker is exactly the type of undersized-but-wily (guy playing) center that will lead to Williams having 5 fouls in 8 minutes.
 

amarshal2

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Tucker is exactly the type of undersized-but-wily (guy playing) center that will lead to Williams having 5 fouls in 8 minutes.
Tucker is *the* model for what Grant Williams needs to become. I hope they play him on PJ a lot so he can learn.
 

RetractableRoof

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Tucker is exactly the type of undersized-but-wily (guy playing) center that will lead to Williams having 5 fouls in 8 minutes.
Accepting that, isn't that the guy to expose him to in order grow from - or do you want it to happen in the playoffs when Kanter has 3 fouls before the end of the first half?

I agree, I just want the learning curve now versus when the margin for error is even slimmer.
 

benhogan

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Accepting that, isn't that the guy to expose him to in order grow from - or do you want it to happen in the playoffs when Kanter has 3 fouls before the end of the first half?

I agree, I just want the learning curve now versus when the margin for error is even slimmer.
I'd like for TL to be given a chance during the regular season. BUT does TL's skill level, prior to this injury, dictate him being "given" minutes over Grant?

Since TL has been out, Grant has been more efficient then TL has ever been in his 2 years here.

.
 

RetractableRoof

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I'd like for TL to be given a chance during the regular season. BUT does TL's skill level, prior to this injury, dictate him being "given" minutes over Grant?

Since TL has been out, Grant has been more efficient then TL has ever been in his 2 years here.

.
I thought the question was do the Cs want him playing at all against the rockets - that was what I was responding to.

I think he brings something different than Grant can/does. If I'm Stevens, I want as many arrows in the quiver as possible come playoff time. So, if TL has shown in practice that he deserves minutes, I assume he will get them. Let's face it, Theis and Kanter are foul machines. So I doubt there will be a lack of opportunity. I think I'd reduce Theis' load to some extent in order to find TL his early minutes. The Is is playing a ton (deservedly so) when his foul count allows him to. There have been times recently when I'd look at Theis' face and say to myself he needs a blow, but knew Kanter wasn't physically ready. Long winded answer, but I think they can get TL some minutes without negatively impacting Grant.

Edit: clarity
 

benhogan

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I thought the question was do the Cs want him playing at all against the rockets - that was what I was responding to.

I think he brings something different than Grant can/does. If I'm Stevens, I want as many arrows in the quiver as possible come playoff time. So, if TL has shown in practice that he deserves minutes, I assume he will get them. Let's face it, Theis and Kanter are foul machines. So I doubt there will be a lack of opportunity. I think I'd reduce Theis' load to some extent in order to find TL his early minutes. The Is is playing a ton (deservedly so) when his foul count allows him to. There have been times recently when I'd look at Theis' face and say to myself he needs a blow, but knew Kanter wasn't physically ready. Long winded answer, but I think they can get TL some minutes without negatively impacting Grant.

Edit: clarity
Yea absolutely, if TL earns them in practice he should play. Just as long as they don't come at the expense of GW.

I want Grant to get as many minutes as possible. If he can be a 40% 3pt shooter, as he has been over the last 36 games, he can play an impt bench role in the playoffs
 

HomeRunBaker

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Tucker is exactly the type of undersized-but-wily (guy playing) center that will lead to Williams having 5 fouls in 8 minutes.
Yeah, there is like zero chance TL sees any time against Houston’s lineup with Tucker or Covington at the 5 when Theis, Grant and Jaylen would be better options. This would be one of Brad’s more bizarre moves. Even if Hartenstein sees minutes you’d see Kanter as his defense wouldn’t be exploited in that matchup and is obv the superior offensive player than TL.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Russell Westbrook has been at Encore the last two nights playing 10/10 PLO. The NBA.....it’s a grind.
 

lovegtm

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I actually think the Celtics don’t use him optimally: he’s much, much better at shooting/driving off the catch than he is as a lead playmaker. I’d like to see him off-ball a lot more in the Tatum lineups, like we saw in the 4th against Utah.

Wanamaker is horribly miscast as a lead guard, but if the Celtics used him more as a George Hill, there is more value there than people think imo.

This doesn’t just apply to Wanamaker specifically: these are the types of role players that will be available at bargain prices and fit in well if Tatum’s leap is real.
 

bigq

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I actually think the Celtics don’t use him optimally: he’s much, much better at shooting/driving off the catch than he is as a lead playmaker. I’d like to see him off-ball a lot more in the Tatum lineups, like we saw in the 4th against Utah.

Wanamaker is horribly miscast as a lead guard, but if the Celtics used him more as a George Hill, there is more value there than people think imo.

This doesn’t just apply to Wanamaker specifically: these are the types of role players that will be available at bargain prices and fit in well if Tatum’s leap is real.
I didn’t initially understand who this was about until I saw that phillybul_22 is Wanamaker’s twitter handle.

This seems to run counter to the argument I have previously seen posed that Wanamaker is easily replaceable. Only one person can lead the league in those categories, right. ;)
 

lovegtm

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I didn’t initially understand who this was about until I saw that phillybul_22 is Wanamaker’s twitter handle.

This seems to run counter to the argument I have previously seen posed that Wanamaker is easily replaceable. Only one person can lead the league in those categories, right. ;)
I mean, if Wanamaker is being used as an on-ball creator, not only is he easily replaceable...he's bad. It's been my opinion for awhile that they could get more value out of him if they just eliminated that part of his job description and focused on the things he does well (defense, spot-up shooting, attacking closeouts).
 

benhogan

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I mean, if Wanamaker is being used as an on-ball creator, not only is he easily replaceable...he's bad. It's been my opinion for awhile that they could get more value out of him if they just eliminated that part of his job description and focused on the things he does well (defense, spot-up shooting, attacking closeouts).
Brad's really a smallish wing (SG). He should see time with Gordon or Smart, who can create more from the top. Pairing him with Tatum also works, as it does for every Celtic player on the roster ;)

#1 in FT% in the NBA, stands to reason that he's an elite catch-shoot 3pt shooter (he was solid last season also)
 

DannyDarwinism

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I actually think the Celtics don’t use him optimally: he’s much, much better at shooting/driving off the catch than he is as a lead playmaker. I’d like to see him off-ball a lot more in the Tatum lineups, like we saw in the 4th against Utah.

Wanamaker is horribly miscast as a lead guard, but if the Celtics used him more as a George Hill, there is more value there than people think imo.

This doesn’t just apply to Wanamaker specifically: these are the types of role players that will be available at bargain prices and fit in well if Tatum’s leap is real.
Completely agree, and I think the George Hill role comp is spot on. He did a bit more of it last year, but now he’s at 2.7 attempts from 3 per 36, down from 4.1 last year. He’s a poor decision maker with the ball, but he can spot up and attack close outs aggressively.

As an aside, George Hill is sporting a 68.6 TS%! Khris Middleton is at 63%. Giannis’s gravity is other-worldly and the Bucks are so well constructed to benefit from it. And because I can’t go 15 waking minutes without thinking about the man, pretty soon Tatum is going to be consistently commanding similar type attention (though in different spaces) and getting his teammates wide open looks.
 

BaseballJones

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I don't get the Wanamaker hate that some folks have. He is what he is: a reserve player who makes mistakes, isn't a very good player (by NBA standards) but who does give you something. He gives you a 2.7:1.1 assist to turnover ratio (Kemba's is 2.5:1.1, LeBron's is 2.9:1.1, Harden's is 1.8:1.1). He gives you good catch-and-shoot ability. He makes his free throws (92.5%). He's an above-average defender. And he only shoots 5.1 times a game so it's not like his 42.8% overall shooting percentage is really problematic. At 5.1 shots a game, if the team plays 5 times over two weeks, that's about 25 shots over two weeks. The difference between poor shooting at 42.8% and great shooting at 48.2% is one and a half made baskets over the course of two weeks. Hardly anything to get worked up over.
 

RetractableRoof

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I don't get the Wanamaker hate that some folks have. He is what he is: a reserve player who makes mistakes, isn't a very good player (by NBA standards) but who does give you something. He gives you a 2.7:1.1 assist to turnover ratio (Kemba's is 2.5:1.1, LeBron's is 2.9:1.1, Harden's is 1.8:1.1). He gives you good catch-and-shoot ability. He makes his free throws (92.5%). He's an above-average defender. And he only shoots 5.1 times a game so it's not like his 42.8% overall shooting percentage is really problematic. At 5.1 shots a game, if the team plays 5 times over two weeks, that's about 25 shots over two weeks. The difference between poor shooting at 42.8% and great shooting at 48.2% is one and a half made baskets over the course of two weeks. Hardly anything to get worked up over.
I think the general consensus isn't a complaint with him, as much as a complaint that he's been over exposed given Kemba's down time. Sort of like Brock Holt playing 120 games. If the Cs think Kemba should be load managed this much going forward (post 2019-2020), then I'd hope they plan for a bit of an upgrade in Wannamaker's spot so the drop off isn't as drastic. Maybe it's already on the roster, maybe it's not. I don't think that's really an unfair take.

I've personally made an effort to not throw Wannamaker under the bus in my few visits to the game threads, but don't hold anyone else accountable for any pronouncements about his worth there either.