2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

Rich Garces Belly

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Have the Celtics announced a starting lineup for tonight? I know that it doesn’t matter but it should be interesting. My hope is that Smart, Kanter, Edwards lead the bench with someone with more defense playing the post.
 

amarshal2

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I did not enjoy seeing Wanamaker get minutes. I understand Semi given the opponent but I hope those two sit a lot more in the future then they did tonight.

It was great to see Tatum playing nice D and having so much more confidence in those pull up threes. It was also great to see him get to the rim a bunch. However, he is going to need to figure out how to draw fouls or finish. His inability to finish didn’t seem like a sixers problem, it just reminded me of Tatum for his entire (brief) history.
 

lovegtm

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I did not enjoy seeing Wanamaker get minutes. I understand Semi given the opponent but I hope those two sit a lot more in the future then they did tonight.

It was great to see Tatum playing nice D and having so much more confidence in those pull up threes. It was also great to see him get to the rim a bunch. However, he is going to need to figure out how to draw fouls or finish. His inability to finish didn’t seem like a sixers problem, it just reminded me of Tatum for his entire (brief) history.
This was mostly because of Brown's foul trouble and because they were looking for a way to stop Simmons.
 

lexrageorge

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Wanamaker got all of 5 minutes. Edwards was given 11, but was off target; must have had breakfast with Kemba.

Tatum looked a lot more assertive last night, which I take as a good sign, even if the results weren’t perfect.
 

Jimbodandy

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Wanamaker got all of 5 minutes. Edwards was given 11, but was off target; must have had breakfast with Kemba.

Tatum looked a lot more assertive last night, which I take as a good sign, even if the results weren’t perfect.
Yeah, I'm the last guy on the Wanamaker bandwagon, but he wasn't out there much and didn't kill us.

Overall this is a bad early season matchup for us. Philly's length was going to bother our shooters, and the offense is not mature enough to work around that yet. Guys will get better looks going forward.

Good call on Tatum's game plan last night too. He struggled for sure, but his approach was sound and will pay dividends. Overall felt the same about Brown also. Both took the right shots. Tatum was more aggressive, but both had their heads on. It was more good than bad, at least to me.
 

Light-Tower-Power

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My biggest cause for optimism was how good Hayward looked taking it to the rim and drawing contact. We saw a lot more of that last night than we did all last season. My biggest concern is that the offense as a whole looked exactly the same as last year only with Kemba instead of Kyrie. They played super slow with a ton of isolation. Maybe some of that was due to the Sixers defense but it still makes me nervous given that we thought they'd work it out last season but it never happened.
 

lovegtm

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As long as we’re doing positives, Brown was the best option on Horford early, and that’s not where he picked up his fouls. There’s no way he could have banged with Al even a year or two ago, and that helps a lot for the lineup.

Kanter was also totally playable against Embiid, which is big. If they can get their offense on the same page, I think the next meeting against Philly will go very differently.
 

lexrageorge

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The next 20 games will pose some challenges. Home against the Raptors, Bucks, and Nuggets. A visit to San Antonio, followed soon after by a west coast trip that includes stops in Clipper-land, San Francisco, and Denver. And a home-and-home against Kyrie.

I personally am hoping for a 12-9 start for this stretch; anything above that would be gravy. More important, IMO, will be how the team plays. All teams have games like last night's where the shots don't fall while the whistles blow. Here's hoping that Tatum, Brown, and the kids steal an unexpected win or two from one of the league's big guns.
 

lovegtm

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Yeah, fortunately it’s the NBA, where everyone makes the playoffs. I think this regular season will have a lot of ups and downs, but I’m already enjoying the process.
 

128

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Yeah, fortunately it’s the NBA, where everyone makes the playoffs. I think this regular season will have a lot of ups and downs, but I’m already enjoying the process.
Enjoy, but don't trust.
 

DrewDawg

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Here's the thing--the Sixers were always going to be possibly the worst matchup for us. And, in a lot of ways, what we did worked.

--Embiid was 5-14, and Horford 5-13. John Karalis was in Sixers locker room postgame and said Embiid was down and had to be given a pep-talk.

--We earned 34 foul shots. We hit them at last years rate we're 7 or so points closer, which changes the game. So many FT misses exacerbates our rebounding issues. Very tough to grab offensive board on FTs. We can't make rebounding even easier for them.

--Hayward earned 11 FTs. That's good.

--Tatum won't shoot 36% this year and Walker won't shoot 22%. Tatum is adjusting to a new game. He did drive a lot, he just didn't drive strong. Taking 8 threes is what we need from him.
 
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luckiestman

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I wasn't too impressed by the SIxers tbh, but it is only one game

Reddick and Butler scared me a lot more than Richardson/Horford. Richardson did have some nice D, much better than Reddick.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Cs were fine in the 1st half when Kemba scored 10 points (went 3 for 9). Wheels fell off in second half with missed FTs and Kemba going 1-9. They also missed all 4 flagrant FTs I believe, which is pretty hard to believe.

As I said in the game thread, Brad's on an "information gathering" mission early in this season - to see what combinations work (and don't work) and who can do what (and what they can't do). I'm sure Brad loved the fact that the opener was against a team with high expectations on their home court as the Cs had nothing to lose in this game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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I wasn't too impressed by the SIxers tbh, but it is only one game

Reddick and Butler scared me a lot more than Richardson/Horford. Richardson did have some nice D, much better than Reddick.
Sixers look like they are bringing the 1990s back to the NBA. They are going to pound the ball inside and see who can keep up. It will be interesting to see how efficient they have to be to make the math work.
 

luckiestman

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Cs were fine in the 1st half when Kemba scored 10 points (went 3 for 9). Wheels fell off in second half with missed FTs and Kemba going 1-9. They also missed all 4 flagrant FTs I believe, which is pretty hard to believe.

As I said in the game thread, Brad's on an "information gathering" mission early in this season - to see what combinations work (and don't work) and who can do what (and what they can't do). I'm sure Brad loved the fact that the opener was against a team with high expectations on their home court as the Cs had nothing to lose in this game.

How much more information does Brother Brad need to know that Theis sucks?
 

lovegtm

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How much more information does Brother Brad need to know that Theis sucks?
He didn’t start him though. There are a lot better f matchups in which Theis will be more playable.

Kanter holding his own against Embiid was a huge positive, and makes the center situation slightly less urgent, if they can get the offense together.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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How much more information does Brother Brad need to know that Theis sucks?
Theis doesn't suck. As HRB would say, and as Lgtm mentioned above, Theis is really good against specific teams.

Brad is also interested in finding out whether Theis playing with JB, JT, and GH might be able to hide some of his deficiencies. Not sure that they can.
 

luckiestman

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He didn’t start him though. There are a lot better f matchups in which Theis will be more playable.

Kanter holding his own against Embiid was a huge positive, and makes the center situation slightly less urgent, if they can get the offense together.

I'm overreacting but the boxscore verifies that Theis got killed last night, minus 7 in 10 minutes. He has to be better than that or Brad has to play him in more favorable spots.
 

DrewDawg

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How much more information does Brother Brad need to know that Theis sucks?
He played 9 minutes. The Sixers/Bucks are the matchups he's not going to play as much, and when he does, he won't look too good. He did earn 4 FTs in 9 minutes.
 

luckiestman

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He played 9 minutes. The Sixers/Bucks are the matchups he's not going to play as much, and when he does, he won't look too good. He did earn 4 FTs in 9 minutes.

I'm a super homer and if I feel like the guy sucked he had to have looked lost out there. I would play a lot of guys over him but I'm fine with chalking it up to "information gathering".
 

lovegtm

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Theis doesn't suck. As HRB would say, and as Lgtm mentioned above, Theis is really good against specific teams.

Brad is also interested in finding out whether Theis playing with JB, JT, and GH might be able to hide some of his deficiencies. Not sure that they can.
Yeah, we all need to get used to it being center by committee. There will be matchups where Kanter is totally unplayable against starters, and then others (like yesterday) where he’s a great option against a Finals contender. Theis is similar (he looked awesome against Orlando in preseason, because they weren’t playing any power bigs).

Another part of this is that with the fall of the Warriors, the NBA is way more stylistically diverse at the top than it’s been in awhile, which creates lots more matchup decisions. I’m loving it.
 

lexrageorge

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Last season started with an 18 point win against the Sixers at home in which the Celtics looked dominant despite Kyrie having a horrible (2-14) night shooting the rock. Tatum was one rebound from a double-double, Morris and Rozier were efficient coming off the bench, and Hayward simply looked rusty but was credited with 4 steals as he was active on the defensive end.

Shows you that you can only read so much into Opening Night.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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Kemba going 1-9
I thought he made things much tougher on himself by looking for contact on his back rather than taking the mechanically easier shot. He got a generous call on Philly's rookie early and kinda went back to that well a few too many times. TBF it did look like he got boned on a couple of non-calls, but ESPN didn't show any replays so it's hard to tell if he had legit gripes.
 

128

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I thought he made things much tougher on himself by looking for contact on his back rather than taking the mechanically easier shot. He got a generous call on Philly's rookie early and kinda went back to that well a few too many times. TBF it did look like he got boned on a couple of non-calls, but ESPN didn't show any replays so it's hard to tell if he had legit gripes.
If memory serves, Horford hammered Kemba on the final player of the first half. Should have been a two-shot foul. No whistle.
 
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JCizzle

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If memory servers, Horford hammered Kemba on the final player of the first half. Should have been a two-shot foul. No whistle.
That was a tough call. I thought Kemba threw himself into Al to initiate contact and bounce off, but that's a call the offensive player gets seemingly 99% of the time.

I thought Jaylen got screwed on a couple calls. Not having his athleticism out there hurt us IMO. He had a couple really nice defensive plays in the first half before his rhythm got all fucked.
 

DrewDawg

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Some good stuff from last night:

Drives per game:
Harden 18/19: 19.6 (led the NBA)
Hayward 18/19: 5.7
Hayward last night: 18


Regarding Tatum, don't have a full shot chart yet but 16 of his 22 shorts we're either 3-pointers or within 10 feet of the basket.
 

lovegtm

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Some good stuff from last night:

Drives per game:
Harden 18/19: 19.6 (led the NBA)
Hayward 18/19: 5.7
Hayward last night: 18


Regarding Tatum, don't have a full shot chart yet but 16 of his 22 shorts we're either 3-pointers or within 10 feet of the basket.
Yeah, I don't think that Brad was blowing smoke about having seen a lot of positives. He generally is pretty honest when the team plays like shit. A lot of the issues seemed Philly/early season specific.
 

HomeRunBaker

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I know it’s one game, I know Kemba really struggled with the Sixers length, and I know the culture obv had to change.......but the level of talent downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba cannot be overstated.
 

benhogan

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HomeRunBaker

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it felt like Kyrie hadn't left the team ;)
Meh not at all. His numbers were heavily inflated last year with free reign in Charlotte and all the motivation to do so with a max deal staring him in the eye. The difference in creating space for the purpose of shot creation is clearly evident between the two in the half court offense.

Am I the only one calling for more Wanamaker? I kid. I kid.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Meh not at all. His numbers were heavily inflated last year with free reign in Charlotte and all the motivation to do so with a max deal staring him in the eye. The difference in creating space for the purpose of shot creation is clearly evident between the two in the half court offense.

Am I the only one calling for more Wanamaker? I kid. I kid.
Let's see what happens but just based on statistical output Kemba was never going to fully replace Kyrie's production. And while the "chemistry" upgrade may well be real, its also unlikely to close that gap.

That said, the Cs will likely struggle mightily to replace Horford's production. I know some in the gamethread concluded that he is totally cooked after seeing him in just one game. Even if that is the case, Boston will probably have a difficult time getting anything close to what he provided defensively as well as from a playmaking perspective over the past few seasons.
 

lexrageorge

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I'm not sure this year's team needed to replace all or even most of Kyrie's talent, given the expected improvement from all 3 of Tatum, Brown, and Hayward. So Kemba should be an adequate replacement.
 

benhogan

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Meh not at all. His numbers were heavily inflated last year with free reign in Charlotte and all the motivation to do so with a max deal staring him in the eye. The difference in creating space for the purpose of shot creation is clearly evident between the two in the half court offense.

Am I the only one calling for more Wanamaker? I kid. I kid.
His numbers were heavily inflated last year with free reign in Charlotte Boston and all the motivation to do so with a max deal staring him in the eye.

Sounds familiar.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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His numbers were heavily inflated last year with free reign in Charlotte Boston and all the motivation to do so with a max deal staring him in the eye.

Sounds familiar.
It isn't based on how consistent Irvings production was over the past few years.

He may not be likable but there is no denying that Kyrie is really talented and a significantly better player than Walker.
 

Jimbodandy

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It isn't based on how consistent Irvings production was over the past few years.

He may not be likable but there is no denying that Kyrie is really talented and a significantly better player than Walker.
Kyrie is a more talented player. And while Kemba is extremely limited on defense, it was refreshing watching five guys play defense at the same time for the first time on over a year. I'm not soured on the swap even a little bit.
 

benhogan

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It isn't based on how consistent Irvings production was over the past few years.

He may not be likable but there is no denying that Kyrie is really talented and a significantly better player than Walker.
Kyrie is HUGELY talented, completely agree no denying that.

But let's see if Ky can carry a team on his back, and play 82 games at that level as Kemba did. My money is on Kyrie not making it past All-Star break.

Being high usage and staying healthy at PG is a very underrated skill IMO.


538/RAPTOR is denying Kyrie is a significantly better player than Kemba
 
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Captaincoop

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I was at the Nets game last night (watching the Celtics on my phone most of the time) and it really was evident that Kyrie now has his wish - a team fully subordinate to him, built to orbit him.

Not sure if that's good or bad. But he has his team.
 

JakeRae

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I know it’s one game, I know Kemba really struggled with the Sixers length, and I know the culture obv had to change.......but the level of talent downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba cannot be overstated.
I’ll grant you talent downgrade. Kyrie is pretty much undeniably more talented than Kemba. But talent doesn’t matter much in the end. What matters is performance/production. Kemba is just as good a player as Kyrie despite the talent gap and that will prove out over the course of the season.
 

mcpickl

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I'm overreacting but the boxscore verifies that Theis got killed last night, minus 7 in 10 minutes. He has to be better than that or Brad has to play him in more favorable spots.
You think? This is wild. He stepped on the court for the first time in the fourth quarter when it was Philly ball, Korkmaz knocks down a 3(not Theis guy), Hayward misses at the other end, Tobias hits a 3(not Theis guy). Celtics timeout. Not sure what the center should've done on those two plays to prevent him from going -1 to getting killed at -7, but maybe you've got a suggestion?

I think Theis is their best center. If you think he sucks and shouldn't play, you're really gonna hate the center play from everyone else they have.
 

chilidawg

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What matters is wins and losses.
Yup. And both Kyrie and Kemba lost, Kyrie at home to a mediocre team and Kemba on the road to good team. Talent maybe a downgrade, but impact on winning may well not. That's my take anyway.

Can't believe we're having this discussion after one game.
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Some good stuff from last night:

Drives per game:
Harden 18/19: 19.6 (led the NBA)
Hayward 18/19: 5.7
Hayward last night: 18
It is super encouraging that GH did this against what has to be the longest team in the NBA.

I know it’s one game, I know Kemba really struggled with the Sixers length, and I know the culture obv had to change.......but the level of talent downgrade from Kyrie to Kemba cannot be overstated.
Yes, but if 2018-19 KI + GH = 2019-20 GH + KW and JB and JT take a step forward, the Cs will be just as good as last year. (As GH said, he didn't come to Boston to get knocked out in the 2nd round of the playoffs.)

And as for Horford, I think one thing Brad is bound and determined to do this year is develop TL. If he can accomplish that, next year should be amazing.
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Yup. And both Kyrie and Kemba lost, Kyrie at home to a mediocre team and Kemba on the road to good team. Talent maybe a downgrade, but impact on winning may well not. That's my take anyway.

Can't believe we're having this discussion after one game.
All fair and just so we are clear, we are having this discussion because of HRB's post suggests that Kemba had a career year last season ahead of his free agency. Another poster suggested that Kyrie did the same thing.

I may be looking at the wrong data but regardless of whether you use RPM, BPM or whatever metric, both players have been pretty consistent over the last few seasons. I don't see either with considerably different stats last year vs the prior season for example.

Finally, setting aside biases and agendas, there is nothing to say about this season yet except that Kyrie had a good game against a middling-at-best-team while Kemba struggled out of one of the presumptive top seeds in the East. Beyond that, whether chemistry wins out over superior talent remains to be seen. In the NBA, talent like Irving's ability to create his own shot via his handles and moves tends to win out over not quite as talented but, perhaps, more crafty players like Walker. However Kyrie has other baggage and as we have seen it can absolutely hurt a team.
 

Devizier

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The difference in creating space for the purpose of shot creation is clearly evident between the two in the half court offense.
I don’t see how this is even controversial. The hope is that a more deferential guard will lead to better play from Tatum/Hayward, I’m assuming.