2019-2020 Celtics Regular Season Thread

Cesar Crespo

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Thanks for that, that was fun.

Boston, Philly, and the Clippers seem to have fanbases that are pessimistic as hell and whatever the opposite of “high on your own supply” is, and I’m sure I could think of others.

Which fanbases are the most delusional in terms of thinking all their prospects are amazing, the coach is a living deity, the front office is on another level, etc? Obviously if SRN is representative the Dubs have to be up there, and I see a lot of ridiculousness from Lakers’ fans re Kuzma. I’m guessing Utah and San Antonio are in this group?
The Boston Celtics are near the top. I don't know what you are talking about.
 

Smokey Joe

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Flceltsfan posts here regularly and does a Huge community service by compiling the comments from the other side and the daily links page. She also does the previews for each game on Celticsblog and Celticsgreen. stop by and thank her sometime.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Hell, Philly is too. Look at Londonsox, he's a complete homer.

I think fan bases can be split too though. A lot of Boston fans are pessimistic but a lot of them drink the kool aid on guys like Edwards, Waters, Fall, Nader, Bird, Kadeem.
 

TripleOT

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By my quick look, the Cs have 13 home games remaining, 8 against playoff teams, and 15 road games, 9 against playoff teams.

17 playoff opponents, and 11 non-playoff opponents the rest of the way. I can see them going 17-11 for 55 wins, which might not push them past the Raptors in the East. Going 3-1 or 4-0 in the four game road trip after the break could set them up for something better the rest of the way.
 

Montana Fan

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Finally watched the 4q and double overtime vs the Clips. Great way to end the first "half" of the season. That would have been a fun game to be on hand for.

Celts are 38-16 at the ASB versus 37-21 last year. Post ASB they went 12-12 last year, expecting a much better finish this season even with the tough schedule. This season feels like a success already. Would love to see a trip to the ECF this year, win or lose, it would be a big step forward.

When it comes down to it, this is Marcus Smart's team, he is the perfect all around player who is not going to let guys slack and when they perform he is more fired up than they are.

Lotta love for this squad.
 

DJnVa

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All-Star break downtime reading: NBA leaders in career buzzer-beaters, and there's some Celtics flavor:


Larry Bird, 4
Only four buzzer-beaters feels a little beneath Larry Legend, but these were some truly special ones. Each of Bird’s buzzer-beaters came in games in which the Celtics were trailing at the time of the shot. Before Bird, no one else had more than two such shots.

But perhaps the most astounding thing about Bird’s buzzer-beaters is that they came in games that he dominated. He averaged 41.3 points in these four games: 38 at Phoenix in 1983, 48 vs. Portland in 1985, 32 vs. Detroit two days later, and 47 at Washington in 1987. No other player has multiple 45-plus-point games with a buzzer-beater. And no other player has ever won consecutive games at the buzzer like Bird did on January 27 and 29, 1985. Legendary.
Paul Pierce, 7
Pierce isn’t the all-time leader in buzzer-beaters, but no one has been involved with as many buzzer-beaters as the Truth. His seven buzzer-beaters tie him for the fourth-most makes all time, and his five buzzer-beater assists are the most ever. That’s 12 buzzer-beaters he either scored or assisted on; no other player has more than 10. Despite being known for his 3-point shooting prowess, all seven of Pierce’s game-winners were 2-pointers (which is tied for the most).
KG had 5, but only 1 in Boston.

Top 3: Jordan with 9, Kobe and Joe Johnson with 8

 

MyDaughterLovesTomGordon

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Gah. How do they not play till Friday!?!

Looking at the rest of the year because I don't feel like shoveling the driveway...

Obviously, there's no way to catch MIL at this point, but it would certainly be better to have the 2 (and play the Nets or Magic in round 1) than the 3 (Pacers, probably, but who knows what the Sixers/Heat will do), and the 4 would be unfortunate for a variety of playing-too-many-good-teams reasons.

At 38-16, they're 3 up on the Heat and 2.5 behind Toronto, with a game in hand on the Raptors.

Assuming Brad continues to manage loads, and no major injuries in the interim, so that we don't see full-strength Cs very often, but also generally have everyone available, this is my prediction for the rest of the season:

2-21 @ MIN: W (blowout city)
2-23 @ LAL: L (seems like Bron will be pissed about the last time out)
2-25 @ POR: W (tough game, but Cs are better)
2-26 @ UTAH: L (back-to-back finishing up a long trip, seems ripe for a loss)
2-29 Vs. HOU: W (they should have won the last one)
3-3 Vs. BKN: W (will Kyrie play?)
3-4 @ CLE: W (weird back to back, but still)
3-6 Vs. UTAH: W (back home and rested)
3-8 Vs. OKC: W (a tough one, but it's home)
3-10 @ IND: L (could be a big game for Indy, who'd like to jump the Sixers, 19-10 at home)
3-12 @ MIL: L (almost unbeatable at home)
3-13 Vs. WAS: W (back to back, and they lost to them earlier, but 3 losses in a row seems unlikely)
3-15 @ CHI: W (they're not good)
3-18 Vs. NYN: W (LOL)
3-20 @ TOR: W (I think this is a statement game)
3-21 @ BKN: L (I think this is a schedule loss)
3-23 @ WAS: W (they're still not good)
3-25 @ MEM: L (Grizz are tough, end of a long trip)
3-27 Vs. POR: W (tough trip for Portland)
3-29 Vs. MIN: W (they stink)
4-1 Vs. MIA: W (could be a big game, Brad plays to win this one, home with two days off beforehand)
4-3 Vs. ORL: W (basic home win)
4-5 Vs. MIL: L (maybe they get too pumped up for this one and let it slip away at home)
4-8 Vs. IND: W (Indy feels their wrath)
4-10 @ ORL: L (I think this means more to ORL at this point)
4-11 @ MIA: L (back to back, Miami beach, Miami's pissed)
4-13 @ DET: W (Detroit has packed it in by now)
4-15 Vs. CHI: W (easy playoffs tune-up, and they may need the game)

So, that's 19 and 9 the rest of the way, finishing up 57 and 25. I think that keeps them in the 3 seed, and the Cs open against the Pacers.

They beat them again, and then face ... the Raptors, without home court advantage. If everyone's healthy, I think they take that series, too.

Seems like the Bucks' year, but C's have a puncher's chance in that one.

C's-Lakers finals? Just like old times?

That'd be pretty fun.
 

benhogan

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Gah. How do they not play till Friday!?!

Looking at the rest of the year because I don't feel like shoveling the driveway...

Obviously, there's no way to catch MIL at this point, but it would certainly be better to have the 2 (and play the Nets or Magic in round 1) than the 3 (Pacers, probably, but who knows what the Sixers/Heat will do), and the 4 would be unfortunate for a variety of playing-too-many-good-teams reasons.

At 38-16, they're 3 up on the Heat and 2.5 behind Toronto, with a game in hand on the Raptors.

Assuming Brad continues to manage loads, and no major injuries in the interim, so that we don't see full-strength Cs very often, but also generally have everyone available, this is my prediction for the rest of the season:

2-21 @ MIN: W (blowout city)
2-23 @ LAL: L (seems like Bron will be pissed about the last time out)
2-25 @ POR: W (tough game, but Cs are better)
2-26 @ UTAH: L (back-to-back finishing up a long trip, seems ripe for a loss)
2-29 Vs. HOU: W (they should have won the last one)
3-3 Vs. BKN: W (will Kyrie play?)
3-4 @ CLE: W (weird back to back, but still)
3-6 Vs. UTAH: W (back home and rested)
3-8 Vs. OKC: W (a tough one, but it's home)
3-10 @ IND: L (could be a big game for Indy, who'd like to jump the Sixers, 19-10 at home)
3-12 @ MIL: L (almost unbeatable at home)
3-13 Vs. WAS: W (back to back, and they lost to them earlier, but 3 losses in a row seems unlikely)
3-15 @ CHI: W (they're not good)
3-18 Vs. NYN: W (LOL)
3-20 @ TOR: W (I think this is a statement game)
3-21 @ BKN: L (I think this is a schedule loss)
3-23 @ WAS: W (they're still not good)
3-25 @ MEM: L (Grizz are tough, end of a long trip)
3-27 Vs. POR: W (tough trip for Portland)
3-29 Vs. MIN: W (they stink)
4-1 Vs. MIA: W (could be a big game, Brad plays to win this one, home with two days off beforehand)
4-3 Vs. ORL: W (basic home win)
4-5 Vs. MIL: L (maybe they get too pumped up for this one and let it slip away at home)
4-8 Vs. IND: W (Indy feels their wrath)
4-10 @ ORL: L (I think this means more to ORL at this point)
4-11 @ MIA: L (back to back, Miami beach, Miami's pissed)
4-13 @ DET: W (Detroit has packed it in by now)
4-15 Vs. CHI: W (easy playoffs tune-up, and they may need the game)

So, that's 19 and 9 the rest of the way, finishing up 57 and 25. I think that keeps them in the 3 seed, and the Cs open against the Pacers.

They beat them again, and then face ... the Raptors, without home court advantage. If everyone's healthy, I think they take that series, too.

Seems like the Bucks' year, but C's have a puncher's chance in that one.

C's-Lakers finals? Just like old times?

That'd be pretty fun.
This is some serious snow shovel procrastination but a fun read nonetheless.

Houston comes into Boston on 2 days rest, they are an energy team, first game off the road for C's is always tricky.

More schedule analysis:
 

lovegtm

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Another day off for the ASB, another Celtics drool piece from national media. Prada (who does good video analysis) does a good job showing the Celtics strengths on offense, counters from defenses, and counters to those counters. A lot of it would be especially relevant against Milwaukee.

All this recent hype worries me: I think the Celtics are very good, but this could all easily go to their heads and lower their execution levels, which would be devastating for a team that has a small margin for error.

I also think that, while Tatum is going to be really fucking good, he’s on a bit of a hot streak in all regards that’s inflating opinion of him.
 
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the moops

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All this recent hype worries me: I think the Celtics are very good, but this could all easily go to their heads and lower their execution levels, which would be devastating for a team that has a small margin for error.
Is this really a thing? I am usure that a few glowing articles about a teams prospects can actually have any meaningful effect on their performance
 

lovegtm

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Is this really a thing? I am usure that a few glowing articles about a teams prospects can actually have any meaningful effect on their performance
I more mean the press clippings as a lagging indicator—there’s been a growing national narrative wave that the Celtics are awesome, and the players are 100% aware of that.

Whether that awareness affects them? I’m unsure. I do know that NBA players are more heavily influenced by these narrative things than you’d think—see Tatum’s reaction to the All-Star nomination, and the temper tantrums of the snubs (ASS-isstant coaches).
 

chilidawg

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I more mean the press clippings as a lagging indicator—there’s been a growing national narrative wave that the Celtics are awesome, and the players are 100% aware of that.

Whether that awareness affects them? I’m unsure. I do know that NBA players are more heavily influenced by these narrative things than you’d think—see Tatum’s reaction to the All-Star nomination, and the temper tantrums of the snubs (ASS-isstant coaches).
Tatum's response to the All Star nomination seemed to be to play his best basketball of the year. I'm okay with that.
 

lovegtm

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Tatum's response to the All Star nomination seemed to be to play his best basketball of the year. I'm okay with that.
I think it can go either way with how it affects guys, and obviously I hope for the best. The increased attention is definitely a real thing though.
 

lovegtm

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Good Twitter thread below on how teams have done vs the top offenses/defenses in the league. Once again, big warning signs for the Bucks once you get past their gaudy net rating. They're historically, ridiculously good against bad teams, and pretty meh against the top half of the league. It's particularly noticeable for their defense: they have the best defensive rating, but fall all the way to 8th against the league's top hafl.

The Celtics are the best in the league, by far, when you look at how they've done against good teams. It doesn't mean you should book Finals tickets, but there's likely something to the idea that their high-energy style does best when they're focused on a specific opponent as opposed to grinding through the season.

View: https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/1229522810571231233?s=20
 

Devizier

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Makes me wonder if this is a Doc Rivers phenomenon. Who can't remember the glory days of the "flip the switch" Celtics.

To be fair, "Sheed and gang very well could have won that title
 

lovegtm

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Makes me wonder if this is a Doc Rivers phenomenon. Who can't remember the glory days of the "flip the switch" Celtics.

To be fair, "Sheed and gang very well could have won that title
So while I do think the Clippers have an extra gear, they’re also really bad offensively against good teams (105.8 ORtg), so I don’t know that they’re really doing that this regular season.
 

Devizier

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So while I do think the Clippers have an extra gear, they’re also really bad offensively against good teams (105.8 ORtg), so I don’t know that they’re really doing that this regular season.
Paul George's health is the x-factor in my estimation. They can cover for him defensively and are in fact probably better without him, but without a secondary initiator their offense isn't quite the same (it's still good, but stoppable).
 

Cesar Crespo

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Good Twitter thread below on how teams have done vs the top offenses/defenses in the league. Once again, big warning signs for the Bucks once you get past their gaudy net rating. They're historically, ridiculously good against bad teams, and pretty meh against the top half of the league. It's particularly noticeable for their defense: they have the best defensive rating, but fall all the way to 8th against the league's top hafl.

The Celtics are the best in the league, by far, when you look at how they've done against good teams. It doesn't mean you should book Finals tickets, but there's likely something to the idea that their high-energy style does best when they're focused on a specific opponent as opposed to grinding through the season.

View: https://twitter.com/johnschuhmann/status/1229522810571231233?s=20
Smallest sample size too. They must have a tough schedule coming up.

edit: I guess that's not true if most of the top offensive teams are in the west. Not sure if that's the case.
 

lovegtm

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Smallest sample size too. They must have a tough schedule coming up.

edit: I guess that's not true if most of the top offensive teams are in the west. Not sure if that's the case.
No you’re correct, tankathon has them with the 5th hardest remaining schedule by win%.

The Bucks are really interesting to me because of the insane gap between their performance against good and bad teams, and because no one talks about it much.

They’re +0.1 overall against top-13 net rating teams (the cutoff where you go from the decent teams to Brooklyn).
 

lovegtm

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Back to their old ways tonight in not communicating and allowing open 3 pointers routinely. They’ve fixed that before and will again, but it’s annoying going into a tough road stretch.
 

benhogan

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Interesting stat. Probably reflects Tatum becoming more and more of a primary guy, but also Hayward having a great month+.

View: https://twitter.com/ByJayKing/status/1231154494433628160?s=20
GH is having the best shooting season of his career and one of his best seasons ever. There will be serious interest in him this summer if he wants to leave for another large deal. I'm sure we'll speculate around here (myself included) about him taking a team-friendly discounted deal, but shouldn't expect it.

The Celtics big4 are all on the cusp of shooting 3s at 40% (GH 39.5% tops). When they move the ball around the offense is magical... #noballpoundingplease
 

lovegtm

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I’m sure this could be looked up to confirm, but I feel like Wanamaker has played fewer of those minutes since 1/1.
Na, he’s been playing about 15-20 minutes most nights, with a decent number of games higher.

As a side note, I really really don’t get the hate for a good defender and spot-up shooter who plays within his role. If anything, I’d like to see Wanamaker spotting up more as a threat from 3 rather than handling the ball.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Na, he’s been playing about 15-20 minutes most nights, with a decent number of games higher.

As a side note, I really really don’t get the hate for a good defender and spot-up shooter who plays within his role. If anything, I’d like to see Wanamaker spotting up more as a threat from 3 rather than handling the ball.
I don't see any Wanamaker hate. I have been on record in this forum in pointing out that he was bad for two months. For December and January, he was 36.3% from the field and 27.5% from deep while his defensive metrics also showed a decline. He has been better in February shooting 46.3% from the field.

To be clear, I did speculate that had he continued to play like he was in December and January, his minutes would diminish and they did last month. I also thought the C's might use his spot for upgrade purposes but they clearly did not for a variety of reasons. I mean, if pointing out a player's flaws using data is "hate", I guess I am guilty but I am probably the only one in this forum who posted anything on him regularly. So I will own it.
 

lovegtm

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I don't see any Wanamaker hate. I have been on record in this forum in pointing out that he was bad for two months. For December and January, he was 36.3% from the field and 27.5% from deep while his defensive metrics also showed a decline. He has been better in February shooting 46.3% from the field.

To be clear, I did speculate that had he continued to play like he was in December and January, his minutes would diminish and they did last month. I also thought the C's might use his spot for upgrade purposes but they clearly did not for a variety of reasons. I mean, if pointing out a player's flaws using data is "hate", I guess I am guilty but I am probably the only one in this forum who posted anything on him regularly. So I will own it.
It's not as much about you--I see a lot of other complaining about him without a clear understanding of what he brings.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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It's not as much about you--I see a lot of other complaining about him without a clear understanding of what he brings.
Well, there we diverge. I think Wanamaker is pretty replaceable.

He is a good defender for his size, a very good free-thrower and also decent at spotting up. But he also has a lot of flaws. Boston is clearly wed to him for the rest of the season and I respect the hell out of his grind in making it to the NBA.

However, he is an odd hill to die on in terms of player value. He is a negative regardless of whatever stats you look at be it RAPM or PIPM for example. If you look at the players ranked above him, its a list of guys I suspect many people in this forum would pass on or, at best, be pretty indifferent to playing for Boston (e.g. Ntilikina, Ish Smith and Shake Milton depending on how you define him positionally).
 

Cesar Crespo

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It's not as much about you--I see a lot of other complaining about him without a clear understanding of what he brings.
I said it before, but I think it's just overexposure. And that's not his fault. Everyone would be fine if he was our 3rd PG instead of our 2nd. Instead, he's 7th in total minutes played at 1021. Without injuries, he's probably closer to Semi in minutes (766 minutes, 10th) than Theis (1128, 6th). He's really not someone you want in at the end of games. Sometimes a 2nd PG will be in the end of games.

He's also leading the team in Games Played, which isn't a completely useless stat (Robert Williams) but is mostly a useless stat. Grant Williams is 2nd and Semi is 3rd. They are at 54, 53 and 52 respectively. The Celtics have played 55 games.

Sem is interesting because there's been a few stretches this year where it looks like Stevens is going to move away from Semi but Brad always goes back to him. He's had 3 stretches this year. 11/5-11/15, 6 games. 12/27-1/8, 7 games, 2/9-current. Some of it is just match ups but he's definitely one of Brad's crutches. Only reason I bring it up is because when we try to find minutes for players... a lot of us start with Semi. It doesn't seem to be in the cards though.

edit: if this team is healthy, they can have Hayward or Smart run the point so it's not that much an issue.
 

lovegtm

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Well, there we diverge. I think Wanamaker is pretty replaceable.

He is a good defender for his size, a very good free-thrower and also decent at spotting up. But he also has a lot of flaws. Boston is clearly wed to him for the rest of the season and I respect the hell out of his grind in making it to the NBA.

However, he is an odd hill to die on in terms of player value. He is a negative regardless of whatever stats you look at be it RAPM or PIPM for example. If you look at the players ranked above him, its a list of guys I suspect many people in this forum would pass on or, at best, be pretty indifferent to playing for Boston (e.g. Ntilikina, Ish Smith and Shake Milton depending on how you define him positionally).
I'm not in love with the dude or anything. He's a min contract guy, who, as Cesar said, should be the 3rd PG at best. I actually prefer him to a lot of the named guys on this particular team (except Ntilikina), because he can defend and shoot spot ups and also makes nothing. Depending on him for more is a mistake, but he's good for making it through the regular season and maybe getting a few playoff minutes in a matchup.
 

Cesar Crespo

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I also think some of it is Tremont Waters. People really want to see him play and Brad Wanamaker is the guy in the way. I wouldn't mind seeing Waters at the expense of some of Wanamaker's minutes but not all of them. I like Waters but I'm not convinced he's anything more than a fringe NBA player, which isn't a hard bar to clear with the 17 man roster. Plus, come playoff time, it's pretty obvious who's more likely to get minutes even though neither would get many.

Wanamaker is fungible, Waters is fringe. I know I sometimes mistake fungible with fringe but they aren't close to the same thing. Fungible players add value, just easy to replace value. Fringe players don't really provide anything.
 

lexrageorge

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By definition, the 3rd PG will be the 2nd PG at various times during the regular season. Wanamaker is probably league average for a 3rd PG, which is fine.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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By definition, the 3rd PG will be the 2nd PG at various times during the regular season. Wanamaker is probably league average for a 3rd PG, which is fine.
Statistically Wanamaker is not really league average, at least not this season.

Semi is a fascinating case for this forum and Cs fans in general. As CC notes upthread, it seems like a lot of people use his minutes as a starting point for finding time for others. And the guy is clearly a gamethread villain of sorts.

Yet Grande and Max are regularly echoing the Cs coaching staff in lauding his skills and Stevens, as much as you can believe coach-speak, is very complimentary of Ojeleye's ability to accept and fill his role. I suspect that the Cs internals show Semi as being far more valuable than what is available to us unwashed folks. Unfortunately that probably means that Ojeleye will also not be "upgraded" at least for the rest of the season.
 

benhogan

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Wanamaker is a super cheap, deep bench player that compliments the Celtics expensive players. He's a plus defender, good spot-up 3pt shooter, solid Ast/Tov and excellent FT shooter. For 3rd string PG he's perfectly fine.

Most importantly he doesn't launch or bitch. He knows his role. We should value that after last seasons nonsense.

Ish Smith makes $6MM/yr, if they had signed him instead of Brad they wouldn't have been able to sign either Kanter or Theis.

Does anyone want to trade Ish for Theis/Kanter + Brad?

Shake Milton is fine but is a SG, not sure how they'd use him.
Frank Ntilinka is also fine but would cost trade assets and makes Ish money, so once again do you want Kanter or Theis?

If Brad comes back cheap next season, great. If not, Tremont will take his spot.


Note: I think most of the Brad grumbling was game thread frustration. Once you look at roster construction/salary/exp you kind of accept Wanamaker as a deep bench player.
 
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Koufax

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In what sense is he a deep bench player? He is 7th on the team in minutes played and minutes per game. He's not the 3d point guard, he's the second. I have no idea how he compares with other second point guards, but that's how he's being used.
 

benhogan

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In what sense is he a deep bench player? He is 7th on the team in minutes played and minutes per game. He's not the 3d point guard, he's the second. I have no idea how he compares with other second point guards, but that's how he's being used.
starter: Kemba
2nd string PG: Smart
3rd string PG: Wanamaker

Injuries happen. Kemba has missed games, if Brad was 2nd string PG he'd start. He has never started a game in his Celtic career.

Yes. 3rd string PGs play minutes and deep bench players play that's why the entire roster matters.
 

chilidawg

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In what sense is he a deep bench player? He is 7th on the team in minutes played and minutes per game. He's not the 3d point guard, he's the second. I have no idea how he compares with other second point guards, but that's how he's being used.
No he's the third point guard who gets regular season minutes when other guys are hurt. In recent games against contenders he hasn't played, because Smart is the backup pt. guard.

Or what BH said.
 

Cesar Crespo

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Even if the team was fully healthy all year long, Wanamaker would probably still be 8th in minutes. I'm not sure that's a deep bench player but it's arguing semantics. I don't think he plays much in the playoffs. They'll basically go to a 7 man rotation and the occasional match up.
 

benhogan

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Even if the team was fully healthy all year long, Wanamaker would probably still be 8th in minutes. I'm not sure that's a deep bench player but it's arguing semantics. I don't think he plays much in the playoffs. They'll basically go to a 7 man rotation and the occasional match up.
Celtics with a full, healthy squad (from 2 weeks ago). I have Brad getting the 9th most minutes after 5best + 2BIGs + Grant
My too early/Celtics' healthy playoff rotation:
Positions 1-4 (192mpg): Kemba, Hayward, Tatum, Brown, Smart all getting ~35mpg (175mpg)
which leaves 17mpg

Center (48mpg): Theis (20mpg), Kanter (20mpg)
which leaves 8mpg

The majority of those spare minutes could be Granites' if he continues with his development.
Brad sees some minor minutes due to matchups
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Also, nobody is suggesting that the Celtics acquire an Ish Smith or Shake Milton. Nobody. I was just pointing out that those guys aren't great but statistically Wanamaker is worse this season. Its clear that data be damned, he is a binky for some folks. That should not stop anyone from rushing out and getting his jersey.

Again, I don't hate the guy. He is just not anything beyond replacement level and that is being charitable given his numbers this year.
 

benhogan

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Ish and Frank are probably slightly better than Brad, but it's not comparing apples to apples. The Celtics can't pay their 3rd PG $5MM/yr or else they couldn't fill out the rest of their roster. So obviously Danny and the Cellar has to "pass on Ish/Frank"

I'm not sure how this is confusingo_O
 
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DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Ish and Frank are probably slightly better than Brad, but it's not comparing apples to apples. The Celtics can't pay their 3rd PG $5MM/yr or else they couldn't fill out the rest of their roster.

I'm not sure how this is confusingo_O

I was pretty clear but let me break it down for you even more. Those guys are at or below league average players - nobody loves them or is saying that the C's should acquire them. That was precisely my point. They are being cited because for some of us its helpful to have comparisons of players around the same range. Looking at a player's cohort is a routine part of doing analysis for those who aren't familiar.

Its clear that Wanamaker, for all of his wonderful qualities/cheap cost, isn't even as good as a bunch of replacement level NBA players this season. Cheap isn't synonymous with "good" or even effective imo but I get that others may disagree.

I don't see how that is confusing but keep up with the strawman arguments, emoticons and the caps. It really enhances a position, even if its not supported by any evidence.

I am done here - there are no Wanamaker "haters". They do not exist. Some people are annoyed with him when he comes in and calls his own number and misses but that is effectively true of all Celtics.

Let me just add that some people enjoy these rabbitholes and I will admit to having been dragged down one here. IMO, Brad Wanamaker could leave the Celtics tomorrow and it probably wouldn't materially impact their playoff prospects. Yet we are devoting almost a page of posts to him. Its silly.
 

lexrageorge

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Statistically Wanamaker is not really league average, at least not this season.

Semi is a fascinating case for this forum and Cs fans in general. As CC notes upthread, it seems like a lot of people use his minutes as a starting point for finding time for others. And the guy is clearly a gamethread villain of sorts.

Yet Grande and Max are regularly echoing the Cs coaching staff in lauding his skills and Stevens, as much as you can believe coach-speak, is very complimentary of Ojeleye's ability to accept and fill his role. I suspect that the Cs internals show Semi as being far more valuable than what is available to us unwashed folks. Unfortunately that probably means that Ojeleye will also not be "upgraded" at least for the rest of the season.
My point was that for a guy who's going to be 9th in the rotation in the playoffs (Big 6, Kanter, G. Williams), he's probably about average for players that deep in the bench. Most 9th players are not very good. But they can fill useful roles.

He's 7th in minutes because Hayward (16), Smart (10), Brown (9), and Kemba (8) have all missed games at some point. If he's able to shoot 46% from 2, and 35% from 3, is he really that bad?
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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My point was that for a guy who's going to be 9th in the rotation in the playoffs (Big 6, Kanter, G. Williams), he's probably about average for players that deep in the bench. Most 9th players are not very good. But they can fill useful roles.

He's 7th in minutes because Hayward (16), Smart (10), Brown (9), and Kemba (8) have all missed games at some point. If he's able to shoot 46% from 2, and 35% from 3, is he really that bad?
I agree with your point - and if '18-19 Wanamaker shows up, even better. The problem, as was referenced upthread, is that he wasn't even close to that production in December and January.
 

TripleOT

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It's not a statistic, by Bad Brad is tough as nails. I'd rather have a tough guy who has been in tough spots in games all over the world than some random third string PG who has kicked around the league for a few years.

He's tough, steady, and accepts his role, all for chump change. I liked it better when he was shooting the lights out early in the year, but he's been acceptable as a third string PG.
 

Imbricus

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Love this bit of Brad's philosophy. Learn good defensive habits early. Show you can defend, and know where you should be in the defensive scheme, and you'll get playing time as a youngster. Really smart approach, especially for kids who have been too focused for too long on becoming offensive superstars.
When it comes to defense, Langford said his approach is pretty simple.

"Just embraced it," Langford said. "Brad says and everyone on the team says, 'the way you play on this team at a young age, is by defense.' So, I like to play and I want to play so I focus on defense so I can get some run in."