2018 Patriots: All-Purpose Roster Discussions Thread

Jimbodandy

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As Ordway says, you are making my point. :)
Glad to be in agreement. It is no doubt a duct tape and chicken wire effort at the moment. At the same time, I'm pretty ok with it for now. It's as thin as it can get though. If White pulling a muscle means a shitload of carries for CP, then the next man is already up and he's the last man.
 

singaporesoxfan

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Question about Patterson's success so far as a running back - given that the knock on Patterson has always been "he's fast, and a good returner, but he doesn't know how to run routes", why didn't his previous teams try to use Patterson more as an RB?

Based on this Reiss article, Belichick knew that the Raiders had played Patterson a few times as an RB but my memory is that generally with the Vikings and Raiders outside of jet sweeps they hardly used him in that role. This article from April points out his prior success in the limited times he's been lined up as a traditional RB (15 carries, 148 yards, 9.9 YPC, 2 TDs,14 Broken tackles) and suggests using Patterson in that function. Was it just that his prior teams didn't need him to play that role with AP and Marshawn Lynch around?
 

bakahump

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The Deone Buchanon Bus broke down a week ago. But BB went out and bought a used Obi Melifonwa model that is cheaper Taller, heavier and faster.

I am hoping that in CP fashion they are picking up this kid to not use him as a traditional safety (which he was ill suited to do and seemingly failed at) but rather as a "Money Backer" (or whatever you want a call with a player with a modicum of coverage skills and is big enough to be in the box. A Bigger Chung if you will.)

Based on numbers alone he seems a prime candidate. Even the "He is not a thumper, but is a rather good wrap up tackler" Scouting report. would be a good (or at least not bad) thing in this role.
 

bakahump

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Eddie George was 6'3
Steve Jackson was 6'2
Marcus Allen was 6'2
Eric Dickerson was 6'3

(I suppose I should say is)

Its not ideal as it affects center of Gravity and "gives more area to hit" but there have been great "Tall" backs.
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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Eddie George was 6'3
Steve Jackson was 6'2
Marcus Allen was 6'2
Eric Dickerson was 6'3

(I suppose I should say is)

Its not ideal as it affects center of Gravity and "gives more area to hit" but there have been great "Tall" backs.
Running style comes in here and unlike those guys on the list Patterson, at least to my untrained eye, seems to run much more upright. I think you said it well, it's not "has more area to hit" but is "gives more area to hit". You've got to worry a little bit about a tall guy running upright getting popped by a linebacker in the ribs and fumbling the ball (or getting himself hurt).
Patterson runs like a WR running with the ball and doesn't seem to have an innate ability to "make himself small" going through the hole. Yes he has massive biceps, but that won't matter with linebackers and safeties coming down hill to pop him.
 

bakahump

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Obviously those guys probably had 20 years of RB exp (while CP might only have 5-10 from youth and HS and 20 or so carries in the NFL). But as a change of pace he can work.

I too am interested in seeing what happens once teams turn him loose on play action or on screen stuff.

As a WR (even a bad one) he has to have better receiving skills then 75-90% of true RBs. If he can be a comparable or slightly better runner then Danny Woodhead (as an example.....and I realize size matters...) he could be a weapon. Maybe not a nuclear weapon like gronk or a bazooka like Edelman but a claymore.

Saw your qoute too late....but I agree. I am certainly not saying he is or will ever be in the same league as those guys running wise. But he can be effective in spurts.
 

burstnbloom

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CP has been exciting to watch because of the novelty of it, but he is so big and runs straight up and down. He's going to consistently have trouble in short yardage situations and tight spots between the tackles with his running style. Hopefully Michel will be good to go next week/going forward. CP is fun, in a pinch, but he's not a running back.
 

NortheasternPJ

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Running style comes in here and unlike those guys on the list Patterson, at least to my untrained eye, seems to run much more upright. I think you said it well, it's not "has more area to hit" but is "gives more area to hit". You've got to worry a little bit about a tall guy running upright getting popped by a linebacker in the ribs and fumbling the ball (or getting himself hurt).
Patterson runs like a WR running with the ball and doesn't seem to have an innate ability to "make himself small" going through the hole. Yes he has massive biceps, but that won't matter with linebackers and safeties coming down hill to pop him.
Troy Brown was asked after the game the one thing he’d tell Patterson and without hesitation said “pad level”.
 

bsj

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I felt like the way Patterson scored was.unique. he threw his body across the goal line and his size and mass really had the d unsure how to respond. By the time they figured it.out he was on the ground in the end zone
 

Super Nomario

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CP has been exciting to watch because of the novelty of it, but he is so big and runs straight up and down. He's going to consistently have trouble in short yardage situations and tight spots between the tackles with his running style. Hopefully Michel will be good to go next week/going forward. CP is fun, in a pinch, but he's not a running back.
I don't want to see him get 20 carries a game or anything, but I think it's a wrinkle to continue to show in weeks forward even when Michel returns. They don't really have a third WR giving them consistent production, so it's likely going to be some mix-and-match between 2 TE sets, 2 RB sets, Develin, and some combo of Hogan / Dorsett / Patterson. I think it makes sense to give CP84 5-15 offensive snaps (which is what he's been getting since Edelman's return) depending on matchup and health of the other options, and it probably makes sense for half or more of those snaps to come from the backfield. It's particularly interesting if they can get him on routes out of the backfield, and if playing him in conjunction with White creates some mismatches in the passing or run game.
 

tims4wins

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I don't want to see him get 20 carries a game or anything, but I think it's a wrinkle to continue to show in weeks forward even when Michel returns. They don't really have a third WR giving them consistent production, so it's likely going to be some mix-and-match between 2 TE sets, 2 RB sets, Develin, and some combo of Hogan / Dorsett / Patterson. I think it makes sense to give CP84 5-15 offensive snaps (which is what he's been getting since Edelman's return) depending on matchup and health of the other options, and it probably makes sense for half or more of those snaps to come from the backfield. It's particularly interesting if they can get him on routes out of the backfield, and if playing him in conjunction with White creates some mismatches in the passing or run game.
I wrote it a couple weeks ago in the injury thread but if they could do it with Hernandez back in the day, they can do it with Patterson, and can definitely create mismatches.
 

BigSoxFan

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I wrote it a couple weeks ago in the injury thread but if they could do it with Hernandez back in the day, they can do it with Patterson, and can definitely create mismatches.
Yup. And the threat of those misdirection plays is now greater now that there is tape of Patterson at RB.
 

Super Nomario

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I wrote it a couple weeks ago in the injury thread but if they could do it with Hernandez back in the day, they can do it with Patterson, and can definitely create mismatches.
With Hernandez they liked to put him in the backfield out of 02 personnel (0 RBs, 2 TE, 3 WR), when you would think there was no running threat on the field. Could see something similar, though this Pats team has better RBs than those ones.
 

PaulinMyrBch

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The similarity in getting the D in mismatches with both CP and AH is both are big dudes. If the box is in dime, the thumpers likely aren’t on the field. So not only is it a mismatch from a personnel numbering situation, but its a size mismatch for those on the field as well. Having said that, CP was in the I formation in goal line, so go figure.
 

Super Nomario

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Reports in that the Pats have signed ST/LB Albert McClellan, who was cut by the Ravens when they got Ty Montgomery. Be interesting to see who they cut to make room for him and Melifonwu.
 

burstnbloom

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I don't want to see him get 20 carries a game or anything, but I think it's a wrinkle to continue to show in weeks forward even when Michel returns. They don't really have a third WR giving them consistent production, so it's likely going to be some mix-and-match between 2 TE sets, 2 RB sets, Develin, and some combo of Hogan / Dorsett / Patterson. I think it makes sense to give CP84 5-15 offensive snaps (which is what he's been getting since Edelman's return) depending on matchup and health of the other options, and it probably makes sense for half or more of those snaps to come from the backfield. It's particularly interesting if they can get him on routes out of the backfield, and if playing him in conjunction with White creates some mismatches in the passing or run game.
I would agree with this. I also think he could be valuable on misdirection plays. Their double fake screen type things. Fake a toss to CP and hit White for a Screen on the opposite side. He's a fun, interesting player.
 

RedOctober3829

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Patriots have placed C/G Brian Schwenke on injured reserve. They have also released RB Kenneth Farrow from the practice squad.

Signed 2/Released 2 in the post above. Placed 1 on IR. Therefore, 1 spot left on the roster. Duke Dawson or leaving room for a Bruce Irvin signing?
 

Saints Rest

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Patriots have placed C/G Brian Schwenke on injured reserve. They have also released RB Kenneth Farrow from the practice squad.

Signed 2/Released 2 in the post above. Placed 1 on IR. Therefore, 1 spot left on the roster. Duke Dawson or leaving room for a Bruce Irvin signing?
Duke is my bet. He must be coming up soon on “make him active or make him permanent IR” by rule, no?
 

lexrageorge

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Yeah, I believe they have one more week left on the 21 day clock that started when Dawson was allowed to practice. If he isn't added to the active roster this week, he will revert to season ending IR.
 

Ferm Sheller

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Yeah, I believe they have one more week left on the 21 day clock that started when Dawson was allowed to practice. If he isn't added to the active roster this week, he will revert to season ending IR.
I saw somewhere that Nov 14 is the key date.
 

axx

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The Pats do have one more DTR spot left, right? Was wondering about Burkhead.
 

lexrageorge

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The Pats do have one more DTR spot left, right? Was wondering about Burkhead.
Correct. Either Burkhead or Bentley would be eligible to return in Week 12 against the Jets. We have heard nothing on either.
 

Soxy Brown

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Correct. Either Burkhead or Bentley would be eligible to return in Week 12 against the Jets. We have heard nothing on either.
I posted this before in the injury thread but this is what Reiss said on 9/30. Not sure if anything has changed since then but he made it sound like Bentley was done until next season:
The Patriots have the option to bring two players back from IR later this season, depending on the recovery for each player, and I'm told that Dawson and Burkhead are the only players who could fall into that category as of now (the timeline for recovery for Bentley and Hill, for example, puts them into the 2019 league year).
 

joe dokes

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Yeah, I believe they have one more week left on the 21 day clock that started when Dawson was allowed to practice. If he isn't added to the active roster this week, he will revert to season ending IR.

So, if he reverts to IR, does that mean they can still bring back 2? Or did one get burned just by being allowed to practice?
 

kelpapa

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So, if he reverts to IR, does that mean they can still bring back 2? Or did one get burned just by being allowed to practice?
It's burned by being allowed to practice. Happened last year with someone - Shea?
 

JerBear

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Bruce Irvin apparently got an offer from New England (and Pittsburgh) before going to Atlanta.


Bruce Irvin to me on joining the Falcons: ``This was a dream [come] true. The Patriots and Steelers offered more money, but being able to play for my city and my people, you just can’t put a price on that.'' Irvin comes home to Atlanta. es.pn/2zzFTk3
 

Hatcher Steals Home

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Rex Burkhead spotted at practice - eligible to return 12/2 vs. Minn
per Mike Reiss
So no matter what, that's both DTR spots now. Assuming Duke Dawson makes it back to game shape, that supplements the loss of Rowe in the secondary. Burkhead is needed for obvious reasons, particularly to keep White alive.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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He ran a 4.4 forty. Maybe he can cover the crossing routes that have given the Pats issues. That would be nice.
 

DourDoerr

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Belichick says that Obi Melifonwu could be playing other positions besides safety. Hoping that means as a hybrid linebacker that covers TEs and also can play corner given his athleticism.
I like this idea. I looked up his measurable on PFR and he goes 6'4" and 224 lbs, 4.40 in the 40, benched 17, and 44" vert. That's good size and compares favorably to Chung who goes 5'11" and 215. He is also faster (by 0.09) and his vertical is better (by 10"). Whether or not that's enough to handle run audibles, it's not a bad start. I wonder if this is the plan or if they're looking to develop a successor. Maybe both.

Edit: RedOct confirmed the possible position shift
 

j44thor

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CoffeeNerdness

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It's both. Gronk reportedly isn't playing today and it seems crazy to keep going into games with only a blocking TE on the roster. If Gronk and Hollister need more weeks to get back to 100% they need a TE who can catch the rock. I'm fine with Gronk sitting out until he's healthy.

 

mwonow

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It's both. Gronk reportedly isn't playing today and it seems crazy to keep going into games with only a blocking TE on the roster. If Gronk and Hollister need more weeks to get back to 100% they need a TE who can catch the rock. I'm fine with Gronk sitting out until he's healthy.

and I'd be okay with moving on from Hollister - even what's left of Fleener/equivalent would be better in the flex role than an always-unavailable Hollister
 

Ed Hillel

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It's both. Gronk reportedly isn't playing today and it seems crazy to keep going into games with only a blocking TE on the roster. If Gronk and Hollister need more weeks to get back to 100% they need a TE who can catch the rock. I'm fine with Gronk sitting out until he's healthy.

The problem is roster slots. They won’t be holding four roster slots for TE with two not playing imo. This would seem to portend the end of Hollister.

I’d love to lure Bennett out of retirement if he got healthy...