2018 Patriots: All-Purpose Roster Discussions Thread

Saints Rest

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I believe the Cardinals would take a rather significant cap charge if they traded Chandler Jones. They would be at least on the hook for the $9M of signing bonus remaining; not sure how the 2018 guaranteed salary ($12.5M) gets pro-rated in this case. Pats would be saddled with a $16.5M guarantee for 2019 which may be difficult to restructure. Don't need to go into too many details to realize that Jones is with the Cardinals through 2019.

Jamie Collins was mentioned upthread. Biggest issue there is how to squeeze his 2018 salary of $10.6M into the Pats current salary cap space. Seems tight.
Short version: All Signing bonuses that would have been amortized for cap purposes over the length of a contract, get accelerated onto the present year cap of the original team. For example, if Chandler Jones had signed a 5-year contract 2 years ago with a $25M signing bonus (NB: numbers made up for simple math), the cap hit on that signing bonus would be $5M per year. With a trade, the two years remaining get accelerated onto this year, so that this year's cap hit to Arizona changes from $5M to $15M.
Salary OTOH hits the caps of both teams proportionate to the amount of time he plays for each. Again, using CJ as example, if his 2018 salary is $8M, that would mean $500k per game. If he plays 7 games with ARI and then 9 with NEP, then ARI gets hit with $3.5M and NEP gets hit with $5.5M. So ARI actually sees a cap hit savings of $5.5M for the salary.
These two things combined are why players with long-term contracts and big signing bonuses rarely get traded until the final year of that contract.
 

Seels

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Safety isn't even like a top 5 need on the team. Maybe going forward after this year. Landon Collins just doesn't strike me as a great fit anyway -- guys like him are always valued more by just about everyone else than they are by Belichick.

I'm pretty okay with the Pats sitting tight unless a TE or LB comes on the market.
 

Super Nomario

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Safety isn't even like a top 5 need on the team. Maybe going forward after this year. Landon Collins just doesn't strike me as a great fit anyway -- guys like him are always valued more by just about everyone else than they are by Belichick.

I'm pretty okay with the Pats sitting tight unless a TE or LB comes on the market.
It's funny - I would say TE is not a top five need for the team.

The argument for S as a need is:
1) The Patriots play a ton of 3 S (DMac, Chung, and Harmon are all > 50% of snaps). The fourth S is Nate Ebner, who has played one defensive snap. That is thin.
2) Specifically, they do not have a backup for Chung.
3) If they did have a backup for Chung, they could play him alongside Chung in passing situations, and this would largely satisfy the need to have another LB.
4) If you get the right guy now, it potentially addresses the future issues at the position.
 

SMU_Sox

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Wait, how are guys like Collins valued more than anyone but BB? BB specializes in drafting strong safeties in the second round.
 

bibajesus

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Wait, how are guys like Collins valued more than anyone but BB? BB specializes in drafting strong safeties in the second round.
Other teams value good strong safeties. Meanwhile BB values garbage strong safeties in the second round.
 

JokersWildJIMED

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Gordon being disciplined tonight for "tardiness"...will be out probably a quarter...not a good development
 

dcmissle

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Look for potential developments at WR before the trading deadline.
 

BigSoxFan

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Not going to jump off a bridge just yet. We'll see if this is a bump in the road or a massive pot hole. It was never going to be smooth sailing with him. But this news combined with the Jay Glazer tweet seems to validate that this team is definitely interested in lining up a contingency plan at WR.
 

CoffeeNerdness

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So Rapoport got played and then Jeff Howe and another media jackal just made up that he was late to depart for the road trip and that he was late to practice to inject themselves into the story. Great night for the media.
 

DrewDawg

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I doubt they straight made it up. I’m sure they’re chatting with the sources though.
 

DrewDawg

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Or BB isn't being totally forthcoming
Of course he isn't.

But I doubt BB reversed discipline because it leaked, so how'd that story get out. Maybe he was tardy, but they accepted the reason but it got blown up in a game of telephone.
 

PedroKsBambino

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Sam Bradford released by Cards. Would anyone prefer him to Hoyer? I know the realistic approach is to say that if Brady gets hurt it’s ovah...and that’s probably so. And yes, Hoyer fits with Brady and knows the system.

I guess for me it’s still worth the medical exam. May be done arm-wise, but a little interesting to me.
 

tims4wins

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I see no point because he won’t take over backup duties from Hoyer due to not knowing the system and he will never be good enough to take over long term. Pass. I guess he might be familiar due to McDaniels but it’s not enough to make up for the lack of reps with this team IMO.
 

Ed Hillel

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I expect he won't clear waivers -- lots of teams need a pass-rusher and know the Pats will be appealing if he clears. But if he does make it through...
He’s a vested vet, no waivers I believe.

Edit - Wait a minute, everyone post trade deadline hits waivers, nevermind.
 

SMU_Sox

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Any Raiders fans that can speak to his level of toastness? PFF says he is average #93 of edge guys.
 

E5 Yaz

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Sam Bradford released by Cards. Would anyone prefer him to Hoyer? I know the realistic approach is to say that if Brady gets hurt it’s ovah...and that’s probably so. And yes, Hoyer fits with Brady and knows the system.

I guess for me it’s still worth the medical exam. May be done arm-wise, but a little interesting to me.
I see no point because he won’t take over backup duties from Hoyer due to not knowing the system and he will never be good enough to take over long term. Pass. I guess he might be familiar due to McDaniels but it’s not enough to make up for the lack of reps with this team IMO.
Bradford signed with Arizona as a free agent in March and received a $10 million signing bonus, about $2.5 million in base salary and another $1 million in playing-time bonuses for a total of $13.5 million.

He was scheduled to earn a total of $5 million in base salary in 2018 while being eligible for a $312,500 roster bonus for each game he was active. He also had an option for 2019 that would have been worth a maximum of $20 million. Any team that claims Bradford off waivers will inherit the 30-year-old's Cardinals contract.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25167705/arizona-cardinals-release-benched-quarterback-sam-bradford
 

Cellar-Door

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I expect he won't clear waivers -- lots of teams need a pass-rusher and know the Pats will be appealing if he clears. But if he does make it through...
He's been pretty bad (part of it has been effort) and you'd pick up about $4M in cap hit.... he might clear
 

( . ) ( . ) and (_!_)

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I'm having fun watching the Patterson experiment at running back just like everyone else, it's fun. But unless they expect him to grow in pass protection, play action, running routes out of the back field, etc... then it's not really sustainable. When he is back there the defense knows what's coming right now.
Which leads me to my point... Why is Kenjon Barner on the team? They clearly don't see him as a runner, thus we get Patterson. I thought he might be there because they want a running back they can throw to it White gets hurt. But last night White looked like he was not 100% and Barner still played a total of 3 offensive snaps. If there was going to be a game for him to fill in for White for a series or more, then it would have been last night. But that didn't happen.

He did play on 5 special teams plays (19% of all special teams snaps). He might be the backup punt returner right now behind Edelman. But they've had Chung return punts before and I'd assume they could put Chung back there again in an emergency.

So if he isn't a fill in for James White catching balls out of the backfield, isn't a better option running the ball then Patterson, plays 1/5 of special teams downs and isn't a necessity as a returner, then why is he here? There has to be some 220 lb -230 lb running back on some team's practice squad that they could go get to hand the ball off to on the 1 yard line if needed.

I know roster spots, especially game day roster spots come at a premium but I don't get what Barner brings that's currently more valuable then even a running back that offers you nothing more then a short yardage battering ram. Especially after he didn't contribute anything the past two games with a WR running the ball (for reference he played 7 offensive plays against Buffalo and 3 ST snaps -10% of ST plays).
 

BaseballJones

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The Pats' RB situation is a mess. Develin obviously isn't really a RB. Barner is simply a last-resort body. That leaves, right now, White. That's it. They've had to put Patterson in that role and he's been pretty effective, thankfully, at least in terms of running the ball. I actually thought in the fourth quarter they should have used him more because of the success they had with him that one drive. One thing they could do is use him in the passing game out of the backfield. Imagine getting Patterson isolated on a linebacker?

But all that said.... he's not really a RB. It's amazing that the Patriots have been able to be successful with such a decimated RB corps. Hoping that they get Michel and Burkhead back this season to fortify the position later in the year. They'll need it. I don't think their current situation is really tenable long-term, and certainly it's a huge risk if White were to actually get hurt (which he looked banged up last night).
 

BaseballJones

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Melifonwu was really good at UConn. His little brother is at Syracuse. Good size. 6'3", 224 lbs. 4.40 speed.

 

Jimbodandy

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The Pats' RB situation is a mess. Develin obviously isn't really a RB. Barner is simply a last-resort body. That leaves, right now, White. That's it. They've had to put Patterson in that role and he's been pretty effective, thankfully, at least in terms of running the ball. I actually thought in the fourth quarter they should have used him more because of the success they had with him that one drive. One thing they could do is use him in the passing game out of the backfield. Imagine getting Patterson isolated on a linebacker?

But all that said.... he's not really a RB. It's amazing that the Patriots have been able to be successful with such a decimated RB corps. Hoping that they get Michel and Burkhead back this season to fortify the position later in the year. They'll need it. I don't think their current situation is really tenable long-term, and certainly it's a huge risk if White were to actually get hurt (which he looked banged up last night).
Not sure what you mean by "tenable long-term." It's doubtful that BB thinks that having two RBs on the roster and active is the long term answer or operating model. It seems that he's waiting out Michel and Burkhead and getting by with the mixture of White, Barner, and changes of pace with Patterson and some end-arounds (Edelman et al.). And if more guys go down or are done for the year, he will sign someone. Meanwhile, that group did just fine last night.
 

Super Nomario

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He was a second round pick.

What else do we know about him?

@Gunfighter 09?

A friend who's a football junkie texted that he's this year's Kyle Van Noy but I have no idea how meaningful that is.
I watched a lot of him for ITP last draft cycle. I really liked him. He's huge and he tested off the charts, but he's a little of a Tweener - not really FS speed / urgency / instincts but also not your classic SS thumper. He tackled effectively but isn't a hammer; he was more of a consistent wrap tackler. I really liked how he ran the alley and broke down; a lot of guys fly in out of control and blow past the ballcarrier but he did a nice job keeping his feet and making a solid tackle. His best fit IMO is a D that plays a lot of two-high. The Raiders tried to convert his length and athletic tools into CB and uh, it did not go well:


IIRC there was some "does he really love football" chatter coming out, which is part of why he fell to the second round. His tape and certainly his measurables should have put him higher. I'm guessing he plays on ST and they try to groom him as a backup S; we'll see.

Not sure if we folks from that neck of the woods, but he went to Grafton HS.

EDIT: a bunch of my Obi notes here:
http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-nfl-draft/2017/04/27/2017-nfl-draft-safety-superlatives/
 
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sodenj5

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Obi is definitely a physical specimen. Absolute freak of nature athlete. He seems to have been a bit snake bitten, but he doesn’t have an injury riddled past, which suggests he’s just had some bad luck.

He’s probably a better fit at SS, coming downhill and playing more towards the line of scrimmage. Not an ideal fit as a FS. Certainly someone worth taking a flier on, as guys with his physical ability don’t grow on trees. Smart pickup for New England, IMO. Basically zero risk and might thrive with good coaching.
 

BaseballJones

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Not sure what you mean by "tenable long-term." It's doubtful that BB thinks that having two RBs on the roster and active is the long term answer or operating model. It seems that he's waiting out Michel and Burkhead and getting by with the mixture of White, Barner, and changes of pace with Patterson and some end-arounds (Edelman et al.). And if more guys go down or are done for the year, he will sign someone. Meanwhile, that group did just fine last night.
As Ordway says, you are making my point. :)
 

SMU_Sox

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His athletic testing is through the roof.

His RAS profile:

Height: 6037 (7 means 7/8s of an inch so almost 6'4") 9.9
Weight: 224 9.76
Forty: 4.4 9.81
Twenty: 2.55 9.68
Ten: 1.51 9.8
Bench: 17 6.38
Vertical: 44 9.98
Broad: 11'09" 9.98
Shuttle: 4.3 4.51
Cone: 7.07 5.07

Mediocre cone and shuttle but could be a guy to put on big slots or TEs or around the box. I like his upside and versatility in theory. I hope he works out but, you know, could be shown the door next week.
 

BaseballJones

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Obi is definitely a physical specimen. Absolute freak of nature athlete. He seems to have been a bit snake bitten, but he doesn’t have an injury riddled past, which suggests he’s just had some bad luck.

He’s probably a better fit at SS, coming downhill and playing more towards the line of scrimmage. Not an ideal fit as a FS. Certainly someone worth taking a flier on, as guys with his physical ability don’t grow on trees. Smart pickup for New England, IMO. Basically zero risk and might thrive with good coaching.
Yep. As the Pats have older safeties now, taking a flier on a 2nd round pick with his physical tools when there is zero risk whatsoever, seems pretty smart.

I'm not sure why he doesn't have the speed to play FS. Dude has 4.40 speed. That's pretty damned fast. Maybe that doesn't translate to in-game speed but he can move. Either way, good signing. If it doesn't pan out, nothing lost. But he's just 24 and has off the charts physical tools.