2018 NBA offseason thread

cheech13

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Atlanta put their remaining cap space to good use here by moving Schroder's toxic contract and getting back a future first for their troubles. I was perplexed by their willingness to take Jeremy Lin earlier this offseason, but now that it's essentially Lin + a 1st for Schroder it looks a lot better. They would have still been better off taking back Faried and the Denver first and throwing Trae into the fire, but I guess they were trying to avoid the Philly mess from years ago where they didn't have a PG and none of their players could develop because of that void.

Speaking of Philly, Muscala is a nice get and it's decent rebound from the Bjelica mess. He's a decent bench big and he can shoot the ball. Londonsox can probably chime in with how he fits, but I see no downside to taking a chance on him at the expense of two guys who really had no future there. At the very least it cleans up their cap sheet next summer.

As for OKC, I just don't know. Getting rid of Carmelo is a net positive, but I don't like Schroder as a player/person or as a fit on that roster. That looks like a 4 or 5 seed at best and it's going to be the most expensive roster in history. I just can't figure out what they are doing there.
 
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moondog80

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Schroeder is getting 15 mil for the next 3 years. Is that really a toxic contract? Is he that bad on defense?
 

cheech13

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Schroeder is getting 15 mil for the next 3 years. Is that really a toxic contract? Is he that bad on defense?
He's a toxic personality with pending legal charges and I wouldn't want him on my team at any number, He's also undersized, he can't shoot and he doesn't play defense. Paying him $15.5MM to be a back-up for three years seems like a gross overpay and a bad use of resources.

EDIT: Digging around on the internet there is speculation they could get out of the contract if he serves jail time. I don't buy that but maybe OKC is just really optimistic!
 
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AMS25

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Royce Young Retweeted
Bobby Marks‏Verified account @BobbyMarks42 49m49 minutes ago
Bobby Marks Retweeted Bobby Marks

The Thunder could save an additional $14M in luxury tax and salary if they use the stretch provision on Kyle Singler and replace him with a minimum contract. The Thunder can stretch his $5M cap hit over 5 seasons and catch a break because 2019-20 is non-guaranteed.

Bobby Marks added,

Bobby MarksVerified account @BobbyMarks42
Oklahoma City was able to accomplish two things by trading Carmelo Anthony to Atlanta, improve the roster while saving $73M this season. The Thunder will now see their projected luxury tax bill drop from $150M to $88.8M, a savings of $62M. In addition,... http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-41024086-4
17 replies118 retweets249 likes

https://twitter.com/royceyoung

The Thunder are working on filling out their bench. Schroeder is part of that. If Schroeder doesn't work out, he's got a tradeable contract. This deal also allows the Thunder to use their stretch provision on Singler.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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Kyle Singler makes $5mm per year, which is a relative pittance in today's NBA and yet he is vastly overpaid for essentially being an on bench cheerleader and guy whose job it is to soak up garbage time minutes. That said, mad respect to him for making nearly $13mm over a six year NBA career for doing that stuff. Its impressive and he can tell his grandkids that he played alongside and against quite a few NBA HOFers.
 

cheech13

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Kyle Singler makes $5mm per year, which is a relative pittance in today's NBA and yet he is vastly overpaid for essentially being an on bench cheerleader and guy whose job it is to soak up garbage time minutes. That said, mad respect to him for making nearly $13mm over a six year NBA career for doing that stuff. Its impressive and he can tell his grandkids that he played alongside and against quite a few NBA HOFers.
He's actually made closer to $18MM with another $5MM due this year even after he gets waived. That's $23MM for nothing other than the perception that he might turn into a decent 3-and-D guy. Good for him and his agent.
 

DeJesus Built My Hotrod

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He's actually made closer to $18MM with another $5MM due this year even after he gets waived. That's $23MM for nothing other than the perception that he might turn into a decent 3-and-D guy. Good for him and his agent.
You are right. He signed a five year $25mm contract back in 2015 so he killed it even more. Kyle Singler will keep getting them checks....
 

wade boggs chicken dinner

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Oklahoma City has agreed to trade Carmelo Anthony and a protected 2022 first-round pick to Atlanta for point guard Dennis Schroder and Mike Muscala, league sources tell ESPN. Anthony will be waived, and he will join team of his choice. Rockets are frontrunner.

In another tweet Woj says that OKC will save $100MM in salary and luxury tax through the trade and I can't figure out how he's getting to that number. Anyone want to do the math?
By the way, I can't get the math either.

I can get to the savings of $62M or $63M in luxury tax payments in 2018-19 and the $11M in salary savings (Anthony vs Schroder + Luwawu-Cabarrot) but that assumes that Anthony's full salary was used.

Note that when people say that Schroder will only cost OKC "$6.5M" per year that compares Schroder's contract to a stretched Anthony.

Also, it seems to me that while OKC saves big on the first year if they didn't stretch Melo, they would have to pay more in the next two years and they are paying more than if they had simply stretched Melo.

But I could be missing something.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Chris Martin Palmer@ChrisPalmerNBA
Over 70% of NBA players have changed teams in the last 18 months. Including 15 All-Stars.

Sampling of Remaining Players from 2016-17 Opening Night Rosters:
Warriors 8
Mavs 7
Wizards 6
Spurs 6
Cavs 5
Jazz 5
Rockets 4
Kings 4
Bulls 4
Celtics 3
Lakers 3
Hawks 2
Clippers 1
 

HomeRunBaker

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Alex Len to Atlanta, 2/$8.5m fully guaranteed.

Montrezl Harrell, re-ups w Clippers for 2/$12m also fully guaranteed (had $1.8m QO on table). Worth noting......Harrell is Drew Rosenhaus' first NBA client. His only other is rookie Blazers 1st rounder at #24, Anfernee Simons.
 

Jed Zeppelin

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Alex Len to Atlanta, 2/$8.5m fully guaranteed.

Montrezl Harrell, re-ups w Clippers for 2/$12m also fully guaranteed (had $1.8m QO on table). Worth noting......Harrell is Drew Rosenhaus' first NBA client. His only other is rookie Blazers 1st rounder at #24, Anfernee Simons.
I wouldn’t bet against Rosenhaus, but it is a little surprising that his initial NBA clients are so low profile. Still remember that guy getting Willis McGahee drafted in round 1 after having his leg destroyed.
 

Sam Ray Not

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Adrian Wojnarowski‏Verified account @wojespn 2m2 minutes ago
ESPN reporting with @WindhorstESPN: Cavaliers forward Kevin Love has signed a four-year, $120 million contract extension --- topping out his overall deal at five-years, $145 million, league sources tell ESPN.
Wowza ... a grotesque overpay, but he seems like a good guy, so good for him. He won't get to fulfill his dream of playing on the playing on the West Coast in his prime (thank God, er Jerry West, that Klay-for-Love deal never happened) but he will always have his one ring and his fabulous wealth.
 

ifmanis5

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Massive overpay for a big who gets hurt a lot. Great for the Celtics, as they can cross off the Cavs from the contenders list for at least the next 4 years.
 

cheech13

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Hmm... that's certainly, uh, interesting. On one hand he's an All-Star and he's only 29 so I can see why Cleveland would want to keep him around. On the other, he feels old for his age, he's showed some age-related decline already and he's had a lot of injuries over the years. That's a big financial commitment for a team that should be looking to rebuild now that Kyrie and Lebron are gone, but they'll still have two max slots open in 2020. Plus maybe they feel like he could rebuild some value this year as the focal point of the offense and they can trade him later rather than the minimal return they'd get now as a pending free agent.
 

lovegtm

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Hmm... that's certainly, uh, interesting. On one hand he's an All-Star and he's only 29 so I can see why Cleveland would want to keep him around. On the other, he feels old for his age, he's showed some age-related decline already and he's had a lot of injuries over the years. That's a big financial commitment for a team that should be looking to rebuild now that Kyrie and Lebron are gone. Maybe they feel like he could rebuild some value this year as the focal point of the office. With more years on his deal they can trade him later rather than the minimal return they'd get now as a pending free agent.
Very unlikely that his contract is considered an asset even now, let alone in a year or two
 

cheech13

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Very unlikely that his contract is considered an asset even now, let alone in a year or two
You don't think Love would have gotten a max offer if he had been a free agent this summer? Gotten those offers next summer when ten or more teams will be flush with cap space? I certainly agree that it wouldn't be the way I'd manage my cap, but in a league where few star players become available those that do get paid. He's unlikely to have negative trade value for at least a couple seasons, barring injury.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wow... unexpected (at least by me). Can’t believe they didn’t go the rebuild route.
Everyone is overreacting based on this singular move and the Cavs weren't going to be factors over the next several years anyway. They can still do both with $73m of expiring contracts on the books next summer in Hill, Thompson, Korver, Smith, and Clarkson. The Cavs literally have no other money on the books for the 2020-21 season with only team options on Sexton and Zizic.

Many have criticized the way teams have rebuilt in the past by collecting a bunch of 22-year olds and throwing them on the court without having veterans on the floor executing plays, rotations, etc. I hate the contract in a nutshell however in the bigger picture this isn't terrible assuming Love wasn't going to bring back much or a return on his present expiring deal which is a reasonable position to take.
 

nighthob

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Or maybe this makes him more tradeable as he's no longer a rental player? (Not that I can see a lot of teams that would really want him.)
 

lovegtm

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Or maybe this makes him more tradeable as he's no longer a rental player? (Not that I can see a lot of teams that would really want him.)
League: no one trades for players who are rentals.

Cavs: Got it. We'll create the least rentable player possible!

Seriously though, Love is one lost step away from being Melo. Melo at one year of lower money was one of the more toxic assets in the league. This is 4 years at more money. Don't think there's a ton more to say on this either direction, but I'm fine planting my flag in the ground that this will be seen as an awful contract within 1, max 2 years.
 

cheech13

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Would you rather have Kevin Love on a max contract for the next five years, or Andrew Wiggins on his?

This feels a lot like the the Lamarcus Aldridge extension from last summer. That was another example of a team sticking with the star they had even if it wasn't a sexy move. That worked out great for San Antonio, but it's only been a year and it's a different player and team so not sure what we can learn from it. But given that the Lakers couldn't even land two stars this summer, not sure how Cleveland was going to get three in 2020. Love is a hedge against being left with nothing.
 

Swedgin

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Hmm... that's certainly, uh, interesting. On one hand he's an All-Star and he's only 29 so I can see why Cleveland would want to keep him around. On the other, he feels old for his age, he's showed some age-related decline already and he's had a lot of injuries over the years. That's a big financial commitment for a team that should be looking to rebuild now that Kyrie and Lebron are gone, but they'll still have two max slots open in 2020. Plus maybe they feel like he could rebuild some value this year as the focal point of the offense and they can trade him later rather than the minimal return they'd get now as a pending free agent.
Worth noting in this context that the contract is front loaded, with no raise in 21-22 and a decrease in 22-23. Also Tobias Harris reportedly turned down a 4 year 80 million dollar extension from the Clips.
 

PedroKsBambino

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League: no one trades for players who are rentals.

Cavs: Got it. We'll create the least rentable player possible!

Seriously though, Love is one lost step away from being Melo. Melo at one year of lower money was one of the more toxic assets in the league. This is 4 years at more money. Don't think there's a ton more to say on this either direction, but I'm fine planting my flag in the ground that this will be seen as an awful contract within 1, max 2 years.
As others noted, I wonder if part of this is acknowledging some value for young players in having a vet star around. In which case, he is very different than me-first Melo...
 

cheech13

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League: no one trades for players who are rentals.

Cavs: Got it. We'll create the least rentable player possible!

Seriously though, Love is one lost step away from being Melo. Melo at one year of lower money was one of the more toxic assets in the league. This is 4 years at more money. Don't think there's a ton more to say on this either direction, but I'm fine planting my flag in the ground that this will be seen as an awful contract within 1, max 2 years.
Well that's great, since Kevin Love doesn't have any steps to lose.

Seriously though, Melo is five years older and always functioned as his team's primary scoring option. Now that Melo can't be that no. 1 option he's lost most of his value. Love is a better passer, rebounder and spot shooter. He's probably even a better defender, although he doesn't offer much on that end. He's also five years younger and doesn't have any of the personality issues that Melo has. He's much more likely to contribute something over the next five years. I don't think Melo is a good comp at all.
 

Swedgin

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Well that's great, since Kevin Love doesn't have any steps to lose.

Seriously though, Melo is five years older and always functioned as his team's primary scoring option. Now that Melo can't be that no. 1 option he's lost most of his value. Love is a better passer, rebounder and spot shooter. He's probably even a better defender, although he doesn't offer much on that end. He's also five years younger and doesn't have any of the personality issues that Melo has. He's much more likely to contribute something over the next five years. I don't think Melo is a good comp at all.
The Melo comp is particularly inapt. Love has shown over the last few years that he can do what Melo could not in OKC: sublimate his game and his ego to fit in with better players. Love was not as successful as Bosh in that role, largely due to his athletic limitations, but was worlds better than Melo.

Also worth noting that Love is better 3 point shooter and much more efficient scorer than Melo. Melo's effective FG% was .476 last year, compared to .552 for Love. Love shot 41.5% from 3 to Melo's 35.7%. Love having turned himself into a quality volume three point shooter should allow him to retain a fair amount of value as he ages.
 

cheech13

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Just learnt that the Wizards signed Dwight Howard and Jeff Green this offseason. I am not pleased.
Washington is one of my wild card teams for this year. Most likely scenario is 40-45 wins and a first round exit, because that's what the Wizards due and that's how Scott Brooks coaches, but the best case scenario is something good. The top three of Wall/Beal/Porter is still as good as any in the East. Dwight Howard is fart-loving, candy-eating locker room cancer, but he's still miles better than the equally cantankerous Marcin Gortat. Rivers, Green and Brown are a group of misfit toys, but together they give Washington their first real bench in forever. Maybe they find some sort of anti-culture clubhouse symmetry and make an unlikely run.
 
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nighthob

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I don't think that he was expecting the Wiz to make a bolt straight back to the That's So JaVale era.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Wall is close with Howard and was reportedly actively involved in recruiting him. I guess that anything is better than Gortat for him as they were ready to slash each other's throats but Dwights connection with the face of the franchise should limit his toxicity effect.

I've been saying it for years that the Wiz need to go smallball to take advantage of Wall's speed and creativeness in the open court. While Dwight at the 5 isn't small it does allow them to use Porter at the 4 with maybe Oubre, Beal and Wall to score easier. Those days of Gortat and Nene clogging the lane with Seraphin off the bench under Wittman are hopefully long gone for Wiz fans.
 

scottyno

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A few days ago the Grizzlies signed undrafted free agent Yuta Watanabe to a two way deal after a very nice performance with the Nets summer league team. If/when he gets called up he'll become the 2nd Japanese player ever in NBA history.
 

pjheff

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Love was not as successful as Bosh in that role, largely due to his athletic limitations, but was worlds better than Melo.
This contract feels similar to the Heat going max to extend Bosh the summer that Lebron bolted for Cleveland. Of course, the Heat still had Wade, and no one could have predicted Bosh's clotting issues. However, the Heat have faced similar challenges in trying to rebuild on the fly without bottoming out and despite having traded future draft assets during a championship window. They've overpaid a bunch of role players and, in the absence of star players, have seemingly no path to return to legitimate contention in the near future. At least Cleveland could conceivably have some cap space in two years without Miami's $20+ million commitments to Whiteside and Johnson.
 

HomeRunBaker

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A few days ago the Grizzlies signed undrafted free agent Yuta Watanabe to a two way deal after a very nice performance with the Nets summer league team. If/when he gets called up he'll become the 2nd Japanese player ever in NBA history.
He could become the first Japanese player to logged 18 career minutes in the league too!


Yuta Tabuse played a grand total of 17.
 

scottyno

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Vince Carter: The anti ring chaser. He's played forever, only been to one conference finals, no one would blame him if he signed on with a good to try to at least get to the finals, and yet he went from a mediocre grizz team to a terrible kings team, and now a terrible hawks team. And at age 41 he's still at least a passable nba player, pretty amazing.
 

HomeRunBaker

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Vince Carter: The anti ring chaser. He's played forever, only been to one conference finals, no one would blame him if he signed on with a good to try to at least get to the finals, and yet he went from a mediocre grizz team to a terrible kings team, and now a terrible hawks team. And at age 41 he's still at least a passable nba player, pretty amazing.
Vince has said that he wouldn't be the guy sitting on the end of the bench. He wants to play as long as he can but the only teams he can get minutes on are these type of teams. He is on the short list of the leagues worst players currently getting minutes.
 

BigSoxFan

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Carter has been around so long that you barely remember that he was a young and dynamic player at one point. But, hey, if the league wants to pay you, why retire?