2014 Michigan Football: Dammit Jim, we need a Harbaugh. And a miracle worker.
- Thread starter WayBackVazquez
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Addazio hasn't been as bad as they thought he'd be. Like they really hated the hire. And he's been, at least OK.
Apparently, we've lost Darian Roseboro, DE, from the 2015 class. Clark is pretty much gone, too. Whether this is the obvious writing on the wall for Hoke or the obvious non-competitive play on the field is uncertain.
Average Reds said:
And right on cue, Dave Brandon releases a statement past midnight that basically absolves Hoke of blame. The gist of it ...
"Following the game, a comprehensive concussion evaluation was completed and Shane has been evaluated twice since the game," Brandon said in the statement. "As of Sunday, Shane was diagnosed with a probable, mild concussion, and a high ankle sprain. That probable concussion diagnosis was not at all clear on the field on Saturday or in the examination that was conducted post-game. Unfortunately, there was inadequate communication between our physicians and medical staff and Coach [Brady] Hoke was not provided the updated diagnosis before making a public statement on Monday. This is another mistake that cannot occur again."
Sea Dog said:
What a complete failure of leadership this is for Michigan.
Since they seem incapable of this emotion, let me just say that I am ashamed for them.
Sea Dog said:
I read that differently... that Brandon is throwing Hoke squarely under the bus.
Since Morris was diagnosed with a concussion on Sunday, and this release didn't come out until early Tuesday am, my junior-cadet-conspiracy-theorist interpretation is that Brandon spent all day yesterday trying to convince the Training/Medical staff to modify its report (after all, the media was told a press release would be issued 'within the hour' during yesterday's presser) to make everything seem like proper protocol was followed. When the Training/Medical staff held firm on their version of the events, Brandon had to figure out how to spin the message as best he could... and it infers that Hoke was not in command of the situation on the sideline no matter how you read it. Hoke said he hadn't spoken with Brandon, yet Brandon indicates he spoke extensively "with all involved". Huh?
Brandon trying to save his own a$$ under cover of darkness... Training/Medical staff trying to maintain their integrity... Hoke trying to brush the tire treads off his back.
Dick Pole Upside said:
Why would Brandon need to engage in shenanigans to modify the report? If he wants to get rid of Hoke he has all the ammunition he needs - the complete collapse of the football program. The nonsense with Morris is just the icing on the cake.
I'm sure Brandon has an angle that he is playing, but throwing Brady under the bus isn't a process he needs to manage.
Petition to fire Dave Brandon:
https://csg.umich.edu/upetition/p/fire-brandon/
You need a uniqname and password, but you do not need to be a current student. Almost 3000 signatures at my last check.
https://csg.umich.edu/upetition/p/fire-brandon/
You need a uniqname and password, but you do not need to be a current student. Almost 3000 signatures at my last check.
Could Morris' family sue Hoke/UM for neglect? Slate's Hang Up and Listen's episode yesterday was extremely damning.
Dick Pole Upside said:
To me, the key graph is "there was inadequate communication between our physicians and medical staff and Coach Hoke was not provided the updated diagnosis before making a public statement on Monday." Puts the poor communication squarely on the "physicians and medical staff" while giving Hoke the plausible deniability to claim he really didn't know the entire time. It implies no communication of said information to Hoke.
"Coach Hoke was not provided" the information ... so did medical staff stonewall information and keep Hoke in the dark? Since when did control-freak college coaches not know every last detail about what's going on in their program? That sentence basically suggests to me that Brandon doesn't blame Hoke failing to pin down an answer from medical personnel after the game, anytime on Sunday, or even early Monday. That reads like Brandon saying the medical staff should've told Hoke, period. Even the "two changes in our procedures that we will implement immediately" puts the emphasis squarely on medical personnel, which communicates "to our coaches" -- he made the communication a one-way street right there.
To me, Brandon squarely threw all medical personnel under the bus while going all out to protect Hoke's plausible deniability.
canderson said:
Shane Morris is 20 years old. From where do you get your understanding that Mommies and Daddies might be able to sue people on behalf of grown, competent men?
Hang up and Listen suggested there was a possible lawsuit out there?canderson said:
I hate Hoke more than most, and even I don't see it, but what were they suggesting?
I mean he and his parents.WayBackVazquez said:
bowiac, they didn't say a suit was happening but it could be open to one potentially. They I assume know little about if it is possible, I was just asking since I know little about lawsuits.
canderson said:
His parents can't sue anybody. Well, they can't sue and not have it dismissed.
Everybody is theoretically "open to a lawsuit potentially." But not really. There's no "neglect" claim available to a 20 year-old man. The only claim I can even fathom Shane having would be a negligence suit. So, in addition to proving that Michigan breached a duty of care to him, Shane would have to prove that the breach caused him to suffer harm resulting in quantifiable damages. But how would he do that? They didn't do anything wrong that CAUSED him to get the concussion, unless you think letting him play QB at all with such a shittastic line was a breach of the duty of care. So they put him back in the game. So what? He didn't get injured more, did he? If not, putting him back in didn't cause him harm, and he has no claim.
This is not even getting into the questions of what damages he would be entitled to, and whether he consented or assumed the risk.
I haven't listened to "Hang Up and Listen" in quite a while. When I last did, their legal expert was Emily Bazelon. Bazelon has written extensively in the area of gender studies, and she has made a nice living dumbing down Supreme Court jurisprudence for the masses, but she probably knows less than I do about personal injury law (and I'm hardly an expert). Beware of people with Ivy League law degrees passing themselves off as "experts" about subjects they know little about.
Edit: My non-expert hunch is that WBV has it right.
Edit: My non-expert hunch is that WBV has it right.
I know you discussed and covered this but one minor point.. You keep saying Morris is a competent adult but I thought in most cases, adulthood is not assumed until age 21? I agree that Morris and his family do not a case but disagee with your snarkily dismissal of his "Mommies and Daddy " filing a lawsuit on behalf of their son.WayBackVazquez said:
I'm not a lawyer (wait, maybe I am), but the age of majority in Michigan appears to be 18.richgedman'sghost said:
Reporting of someone's alleged shortcomings even remotely related to the subject of football is now low-hanging fruit, no? I mean, TMZ was the outlet reporting on the Rice video, so there's that. And there was Hannah Storm talking about how she had to endure explaining a domestic violence case to her shielded daughters. The horror. Anyway, I'm getting off topic. Sorry.twibnotes said:
Honest question, the answer to which I can't seem to determine through a cursory search of a few articles on the internet: Couldn't Morris have taken himself out? We're beyond the stage where a possible concussion isn't an acceptable reason to pull one's self out of a game. Again - corrections to the circumstances I'm presuming in this response are welcome.
richgedman'sghost said:
I believe Mississippi is the only state in the country where the age of majority is 21.
Zososoxfan said:
The petition now has more than 9,500 signatures. If only Kilgore could harness this kind of power for his film.
I think that's right, and only a couple of states are even 19 (Alabama and Nebraska, and the latter only if you're unmarried). Everywhere else it's 18 (well, Puerto Rico is 19 too, I guess).WayBackVazquez said:
Add Delaware at 19. And two - Arkansas and Tennessee that have caveats: 18 or graduation from HS, whichever comes later, so it could potentially be 21 in these states.SumnerH said:
You are correct. I had lazily relied on multiple informal sites that listed them as 18 with the caveats. Have now looked at the specific statute in AK and TN and do see that it is indeed 18 - without caveat.WayBackVazquez said:
AK and TN have been addressed, but Delaware is 18, too. http://delcode.delaware.gov/title1/c007/index.shtmlSoxJox said:
Fred in Lynn said:
Where I really see fault here is with the trainers/medical staff who allowed Morris to wave them off the field, which every one of these dumb bastard athletes will do given the opportunity. They need to ignore that and follow procedure when a guy can barely keep himself upright.
And you could definitely speculate that is part of the culture that Hoke has created, so he bears the ultimate responsibility.
Oh and it's also the trainer's job to confiscate a guy's helmet after he's been diagnosed with a concussion, which I assume they had enough time to do once Morris was finally off the field and the other guy ran a few (?) plays.
Oh and it's also the trainer's job to confiscate a guy's helmet after he's been diagnosed with a concussion, which I assume they had enough time to do once Morris was finally off the field and the other guy ran a few (?) plays.
ethangl said:
I actually disagree with this. The culture is related to football, not Brady Hoke. And I actually take Hoke at his word about not ever inserting a player if he thought the player had been concussed.
I saw this for myself last year when I went to the Penn State game and Taylor Lewan suffered a concussion. The medical staff took away Lewan's helmet and sat him. But one series later, Lewan found another helmet, bolted onto the field, pulled his replacement out of the huddle and rejoined the team. IIRC, Hoke burned a timeout and one of the assistants came out to get Lewan and walked him to the sidelines. Given the relative importance of Lewan to that team, I have a hard time believing that Hoke would reverse himself for Shane Morris.
However, to your last point, there's no question that Hoke bears responsibility. And this is what cheesed me off about the statements issued by Hoke and Brandon.
For these two clowns to continue to insist that that it was "not at all clear on the field on Saturday or in the examination that was conducted post-game" that Morris had suffered a concussion defies belief. And for them to be more worried about justifying the lack of action than acknowledging and fixing a problem is just weak sauce.
ethangl said:
Fog of incompetence is more like it.
The explanation is likely a pretty simple one - they put Morris in to hand off for a play thinking that will protect his ankle. The possible concussion never entered into it because Hoke was oblivious to it.
BTW - this also points out the foolishness of the rule mandating that players have to come off the field for a play if their helmet comes off. While I get the intent, it's an incredibly dumb rule from a practical standpoint.
Was a concussion test even administered on the sidelines? I thought that that was one of the "communication" issues.
That part is not clear, but the team neurologist did issue a statement saying that he left the press box to come to the sidelines after seeing Morris wobble after taking the hit. (Morris apparently went back in before the neurologist got to him.)
Where the Michigan statement begins to lose credibility or is (at best) incredibly inconsistent is that Morris then came out of the game. And the neurologist was right there. It defies credibility to think that he didn't administer tests as soon as he had the chance, but Michigan has only stated that Morris was tested for a concussion after the game.
Where the Michigan statement begins to lose credibility or is (at best) incredibly inconsistent is that Morris then came out of the game. And the neurologist was right there. It defies credibility to think that he didn't administer tests as soon as he had the chance, but Michigan has only stated that Morris was tested for a concussion after the game.
MGoBlog has there first installment of possible Hoke replacements up today:
http://mgoblog.com/content/coaching-candidates-part-1-power-5
http://mgoblog.com/content/coaching-candidates-part-1-power-5
@Johnubacon: After talking with knowledgeable people, I am more convinced that Brady Hoke will survive the season, and less convinced Dave Brandon will.
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I am playing in an alumni hockey game (for the business school, lest anyone think I was good enough to play varsity hockey at Michigan) and Bacon is said to be joining. Hope to have a chance to chat with him about all his craziness.
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I am playing in an alumni hockey game (for the business school, lest anyone think I was good enough to play varsity hockey at Michigan) and Bacon is said to be joining. Hope to have a chance to chat with him about all his craziness.
Have fun and be careful. Keep your eyes open for Csont'e York... and then duck.twibnotes said:
You know, I thought I could watch other college football without feeling bad until I was catching up on Twitter this morning and reading through about Arizona's win and of course, Rich Rod and Michigan come up. I've basically come to the conclusion that we had a good coach without the alumni/fan support when we had Rich Rod. With Hoke, we had a bad coach with the alumni/fan support who has lost that support it seems. My basic conclusion is that we will need both for the new coach (duh). Which sounds easy, but the support is going to be tough. The disenchantment and disillusionment is real.
The Jim Harbaugh article on ESPN was awesome and I am desperate to get him (even though we won't):
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11625088/san-francisco-49ers-head-coach-jim-harbaugh-thrives-chaos-difficulty
The Jim Harbaugh article on ESPN was awesome and I am desperate to get him (even though we won't):
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11625088/san-francisco-49ers-head-coach-jim-harbaugh-thrives-chaos-difficulty
I don't think a good coach would have lost that Toledo game, nor would he have run off Ryan Mallett. It was the epitome of stubbornness and me-at-all-costs. I have full confidence things will implode at Arizona, though, obviously, today is a big day for him.
He says these days that he still would have come in here having no interest in the defense and promoting his specific version of the spread. The offense that, once Denard Robinson (or any quarterback) got banged up by mid-season, was completely toothless against decent competition. RichRod is fine in September but hopeless in November.
I also have a strong feeling Jim Harbaugh will be our coach at the end of the year, unless both the Deion stuff is completely baseless and the 49ers get into that 12-win-plus range again.
He says these days that he still would have come in here having no interest in the defense and promoting his specific version of the spread. The offense that, once Denard Robinson (or any quarterback) got banged up by mid-season, was completely toothless against decent competition. RichRod is fine in September but hopeless in November.
I also have a strong feeling Jim Harbaugh will be our coach at the end of the year, unless both the Deion stuff is completely baseless and the 49ers get into that 12-win-plus range again.
I was more lamenting the "hey look what Arizona has and you could have had/kept" sentiment than wishing for Rich Rod back. He was stubborn and one of the worst things he did was not bringing Jeff Casteel over. He also didn't recruit to Michigan's standards both in terms of the quality of player as well as the quality of student. Rich Rod came in wanting to prove something, but that sort of made him closed minded and ultimately a failure. He's definitely changed since his days in Ann Arbor. It probably made him a better coach, but unfortunately not for Michigan.
I don't have a strong feeling about our chances with Harbaugh. If we miss out on Jimmy, John, and Les, this coaching search might be a mess.
I don't have a strong feeling about our chances with Harbaugh. If we miss out on Jimmy, John, and Les, this coaching search might be a mess.
http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/travis-haney/post?id=3654
This post makes me think there is a real chance to land the Hatter
This post makes me think there is a real chance to land the Hatter
I'm no college football junkie, but are there many examples of coaches starting a new job in their 60s and having significant success? Maybe Steve Spurrier at South Carolina? Most of the cases I can think of (Lou Holtz, Dennis Erickson) haven't gone too well. Doing the job in your 60s when you have everything already in place is one thing, but starting new somewhere and building or rebuilding a program seems like another.Dgilpin said:
I'm have a hard time blaming RichRod too much for Mallett. From every account I've read, Carr told Mallett to leave. Rodriguez wasn't given much of a chance to keep him. I'm mostly in the bag for RichRod, but the main case against him for me was the special team stuff. The team's inability to field a punt or kick a field goal for three years was simply mind boggling, and makes me wonder how that could happen.Chemistry Schmemistry said:
WayBackVazquez said:
No.....not Jesus Coughlin, more like Pope Francis....I can't beleive I am saying this but right now, you would take BC's coach over your own coach.....how the mighty have fallen, and stayed down for the count.
The thing is, despite it being untrue, I absolutely CAN believe you're saying it.berniecarbo1 said:
The Mallett family has been open about this question. Mallett asked Carr for his opinion, and Carr said Rodriguez would likely bring in a run-option system no matter what, and if he did, Mallett would develop better elsewhere. But Mallett still wanted to see Rodriguez because Rodriguez refused to visit him at home, and that meeting went badly.
So, if your choices as a coach are completely useless quarterbacks who might be able to cram into a run-option hole, and a guy who has some experience, an arm like nothing else you've ever seen at the college level, but definitely a pocket passer, what do you do?
Is it your "system" at all costs, knowing it will cost Michigan its first losing season in 40 years? Or do you adapt your system to a pocket passer?
And since when should a head coach at any level pay absolutely no attention to the defense (or special teams)? The RichRod teams gave up record numbers of points. He was fired not because the offense wasn't working, but because the defense got so bad that not even Denard Robinson in that gimmicky version of the spread could outscore decent teams.
bowiac said:
The Mallett family has been open about this question. Mallett asked Carr for his opinion, and Carr said Rodriguez would likely bring in a run-option system no matter what, and if he did, Mallett would develop better elsewhere. But Mallett still wanted to see Rodriguez because Rodriguez refused to visit him at home, and that meeting went badly.
So, if your choices as a coach are completely useless quarterbacks who might be able to cram into a run-option hole, and a guy who has some experience, an arm like nothing else you've ever seen at the college level, but definitely a pocket passer, what do you do?
Is it your "system" at all costs, knowing it will cost Michigan its first losing season in 40 years? Or do you adapt your system to a pocket passer?
And since when should a head coach at any level pay absolutely no attention to the defense (or special teams)? The RichRod teams gave up record numbers of points. He was fired not because the offense wasn't working, but because the defense got so bad that not even Denard Robinson in that gimmicky version of the spread could outscore decent teams.