2014 FA: Building 19 Opened for Bizzness

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j-man

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Ed Hillel said:
Welcome Jeremy!

Broncos fans are cool with us, provided you admit that deep down you like Tom Brady better than Peyton Manning and that the real Papa is Gino, not John.

I think the teams are pretty evenly matched right now, Broncos maybe a bit of an advantage before the draft. The offense around Brady is questionable, if solid. Gronk will always be the key. At this point, I think most Pats fans just assume he will be out.

Again, welcome! Our other resident Broncos fan is Spike86, if you're looking for a rooting buddy.
Thank U Ed i am A Huge Fan of this Site    Brady is Better  it pains me to say that but look at super bowls Manning was Meh in 06 09 awful in 13 Brady was Great 01 03 And Sold 04 07 11  Sure i love Manning but as a long time Broncos fan i do not forget 2003 and 2004 
 

j-man

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Dogman2 said:
 
 
Welcome man.  Make yourself at home.  I look forward to talking with you about the Broncos and Patriots and the upcoming season.
 
I agree that a healthy Gronk will really help us but I think most of us are worried he will be out for most of the season.
well if is any Help Talib and D Wolie and D Ware worry me too   Inj    
 

Dogman

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j-man said:
well if is any Help Talib and D Wolie and D Ware worry me too   Inj    
 
 
I agree completely. I hope Talib stays healthy for you because he is very very good when he is healthy. D. Ware should be outstanding on your defense and with a healthy Miller, the Broncos are going to be very dangerous. 
 

Tyrone Biggums

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j-man said:
my name is Jeremy i have Lurked  on this site  for about a year   
 
i have Spelling and Typing Diff   due to my  Cereal Palsy and other health worryers    
 
 
i am a big Broncos fan     yes even after the awful game in SB 48    
 
that said if u can get Home Field over Denver and a healthy gronk  
U Should be  the AFC Fav  in 2014  
 
Welcome Jeremy! Your spelling is actually better than most of the people here. Myself included. Always good to have another opinion here. 
 

Dogman

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j-man said:
i think Desean Jackson will sign with OAK KC or the JETS
 
I think you are correct and that Oakland is a very likely place for him since he grew up in that area. Oakland certainly has the cap room and because they have to spend a certain amount of money towards the cap, it makes perfect sense.
 

TheoShmeo

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Dogman2 said:
 
I think you are correct and that Oakland is a very likely place for him since he grew up in that area. Oakland certainly has the cap room and because they have to spend a certain amount of money towards the cap, it makes perfect sense.
You may be right but IF Jackson has issues with some of his friends on the west coast, he might be better of signing with another team. 
 
Ending up so close to Connecticut probably wasn't the best thing for Hernandez, in the end.
 
Before anyone goes off, I know that all we have are some vague allegations.  I'm just saying that if any of Jackson's local friends are problematic, he'd be wise to think twice about going home.
 

Dogman

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TheoShmeo said:
You may be right but IF Jackson has issues with some of his friends on the west coast, he might be better of signing with another team. 
 
Ending up so close to Connecticut probably wasn't the best thing for Hernandez, in the end.
 
Before anyone goes off, I know that all we have are some vague allegations.  I'm just saying that if any of Jackson's local friends are problematic, he'd be wise to think twice about going home.
 
 
That is certainly something that needs consideration prior to any decision.  From a team perspective, it seems obvious why a contract has not been offered based on what you note above about vague allegations.  Either way, I think this should be an interesting process in light of the AH saga.
 

soxfan121

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j-man said:
all D-Jax cares about is the $$
 
I think the Revis Principle is in play here. 
 
Revis is, unquestionably, a guy who sees money as a measuring stick. He has wanted to be paid like the best CB in the NFL because he is the best CB in the NFL. But when push comes to shove, he does care about a bit more than money. He also seems to care about being used on the field the way he thinks he should best be used (i.e. not playing zone in Tampa). And maybe he cares about winning a ring so he can keep pace with Sherman in the "who is the best?" contest that is always on-going. 
 
I think Jackson is similar. If he signs with the Raiders and Matt Schaub...well, I'll change my opinion. But I think if Jackson was ALL about the money, he'd be having a press conference on Monday. I think the QB (and the ability to put up numbers and "be the best") also matter. Not as much as the money - he clearly likes the money. But I won't be surprised at all to see Jackson take his time and see if he can't get San Francisco or Carolina or someone with an up & coming or established QB to give him lots of money.
 

j-man

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soxfan121 said:
 
I think the Revis Principle is in play here. 
 
Revis is, unquestionably, a guy who sees money as a measuring stick. He has wanted to be paid like the best CB in the NFL because he is the best CB in the NFL. But when push comes to shove, he does care about a bit more than money. He also seems to care about being used on the field the way he thinks he should best be used (i.e. not playing zone in Tampa). And maybe he cares about winning a ring so he can keep pace with Sherman in the "who is the best?" contest that is always on-going. 
 
I think Jackson is similar. If he signs with the Raiders and Matt Schaub...well, I'll change my opinion. But I think if Jackson was ALL about the money, he'd be having a press conference on Monday. I think the QB (and the ability to put up numbers and "be the best") also matter. Not as much as the money - he clearly likes the money. But I won't be surprised at all to see Jackson take his time and see if he can't get San Francisco or Carolina or someone with an up & coming or established QB to give him lots of money.
but Carolina has no $$$  and SF has Crabtree Bolith and q patton    if he just wants a ring then Seattle NE are his only choles  
 

Tyrone Biggums

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RedOctober3829 said:
Here is PFF's grades on Will Smith from 2012.  Doesn't look good at all.
 
Pats are the best franchise in the NFL because they do due dillegence on everyone. That being said Smith is cooked and Bush is close to it. I'd rather see them get better players in the draft at this point. Santonio Holmes is a guy I would bring in to see if he has anything left in the tank.
 

mpx42

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I'd take Smith for something close to the minimum. Coming off an ACL, with declining play anyway in 2012, it sure doesn't sound like a player who's going to light it up next season but maybe a rotational DE strictly on passing downs (you can see from the snap counts on that table he played 85% of the snaps) he might be somewhat effective.
 

RedOctober3829

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mpx42 said:
I'd take Smith for something close to the minimum. Coming off an ACL, with declining play anyway in 2012, it sure doesn't sound like a player who's going to light it up next season but maybe a rotational DE strictly on passing downs (you can see from the snap counts on that table he played 85% of the snaps) he might be somewhat effective.
Point take on the snaps mpx, but if you are bringing him to be a pass rushing specialist he was way below average in the last year he played.  Coming off an ACL, how does anyone expect him to be better even in a reduced role?
 

Stitch01

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Right now he only has to be better than, or good enough to compete with, Michael Buchanan or year older Andre Carter.  For now, the ship has sort of sailed on bringing in an impact edge rusher.
 

mpx42

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RedOctober3829 said:
Point take on the snaps mpx, but if you are bringing him to be a pass rushing specialist he was way below average in the last year he played.  Coming off an ACL, how does anyone expect him to be better even in a reduced role?
 
I don't know that he would be any good, particularly as an older player coming off a bad injury like that, but it certainly seems possible that he'd have a better chance to be effective coming in on third down, fresher as part of a rotation, instead of the player in that record-setting, awful 2012 Saints defense that played nearly every snap like Jones and Ninkovich do. Regardless, it's another low-risk contract - if he doesn't make the team, he doesn't make the team, end of story.
 
Not to mention if the Patriots could get another talented edge rusher they'd have more freedom to move Jones inside on third down - which is better then having a big defensive tackle there who can't get any push up the middle.
 

RedOctober3829

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mpx42 said:
 
I don't know that he would be any good, particularly as an older player coming off a bad injury like that, but it certainly seems possible that he'd have a better chance to be effective coming in on third down, fresher as part of a rotation, instead of the player in that record-setting, awful 2012 Saints defense that played nearly every snap like Jones and Ninkovich do. Regardless, it's another low-risk contract - if he doesn't make the team, he doesn't make the team, end of story.
 
Not to mention if the Patriots could get another talented edge rusher they'd have more freedom to move Jones inside on third down - which is better then having a big defensive tackle there who can't get any push up the middle.
I think we can all agree that this signing should not preclude them to not draft a DE early.
 

Reardon's Beard

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Both sound like camp competition to me. See what they have and maybe get lucky. If Smith committed himself to a real turnaround after the ACL, you could do worse.
 

dcmissle

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See Reardon/Stich.

We've hit the cannon fodder/lottery ticket stretch of FA. The sons of Duane Starks.
 

Tony C

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RedOctober3829 said:
Wonder why the Patriots didn't bring him in for a visit.  He would be a better fit than Will Smith would.  Giants have done a good job in FA.
 
I agree. Have always been an Ayers fan, didn't turn out to be all he was touted to be, but a solid, versatile player. Oh well.
 

Stitch01

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Yeah would probably have preferred Ayers to Smith, but dont know if the dollars are equal or the difference for 25 snaps a game is enough to care about.
 

Dogman

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I would have absolutely no reservations about signing Johnson.  None. Excellent injury/fumble protection, history of production and, if the current market for RB is an indicator, cheap. 
 
He is much more of a pass catching threat on 1st and 2nd down than Ridley. Sign me up.
 

RedOctober3829

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Dogman2 said:
I would have absolutely no reservations about signing Johnson.  None. Excellent injury/fumble protection, history of production and, if the current market for RB is an indicator, cheap. 
 
He is much more of a pass catching threat on 1st and 2nd down than Ridley. Sign me up.
Me either.  Imagine that speed and explosiveness in the backfield.  Him and Vereen could be a lethal combination with Ridley as a backup.
 

Soxy

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I detailed a bunch of reasons why Chris Johnson is overrated here in a different thread.  He's been a mediocre (at best) boom-bust volume rusher since his breakout 2009 season.
 
I didn't even get into success rate in that post, which is a pretty important stat to look at when judging a RB.  CJ has a career success rate of 37.4%.  He's never reached even 40% once in his career.  That's not good for any RB.  Certainly not good for someone who considers himself to be one of the best running backs in the league.  I mean, he's clearly not, but he thinks he is.  Which is part of the problem with him.  He's always been a boom-bust guy (which explains the low success rates throughout his career) but the booms don't come as often anymore and the busts are pretty plentiful.
 
Let him be someone else's problem.  You can find any number of RBs who will give you better production at a lower cost, and without the associated headaches CJ brings with him.
 

Stitch01

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Soxy Brown said:
I detailed a bunch of reasons why Chris Johnson is overrated here in a different thread.  He's been a mediocre (at best) boom-bust volume rusher since his breakout 2009 season.
 
I didn't even get into success rate in that post, which is a pretty important stat to look at when judging a RB.  CJ has a career success rate of 37.4%.  He's never reached even 40% once in his career.  That's not good for any RB.  Certainly not good for someone who considers himself to be one of the best running backs in the league.  I mean, he's clearly not, but he thinks he is.  Which is part of the problem with him.  He's always been a boom-bust guy (which explains the low success rates throughout his career) but the booms don't come as often anymore and the busts are pretty plentiful.
 
Let him be someone else's problem.  You can find any number of RBs who will give you better production at a lower cost, and without the associated headaches CJ brings with him.
That's my main issue.  On the field for 15 plays a game on the cheap as an upgrade on Brandon Bolden and a little bit of a home run threat, fine, Id do that in Madden all day long.  Johnson will fucking hate that role here.  He wants to be a feature back and carry the ball 25 times a game, a role which doesnt really exist in the Pats offense and certainly shouldnt exist for Johnson. 
 
He shouldnt be playing ahead of Ridley or Vereen because the offense works much better out of 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 3 than 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 8 and, as pointed out, he doesnt have enough boom to make up for those busts.
 
Not a fit IMO, almost regardless of contract.
 

j-man

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Stitch01 said:
That's my main issue.  On the field for 15 plays a game on the cheap as an upgrade on Brandon Bolden and a little bit of a home run threat, fine, Id do that in Madden all day long.  Johnson will fucking hate that role here.  He wants to be a feature back and carry the ball 25 times a game, a role which doesnt really exist in the Pats offense and certainly shouldnt exist for Johnson. 
 
He shouldnt be playing ahead of Ridley or Vereen because the offense works much better out of 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 3 than 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 8 and, as pointed out, he doesnt have enough boom to make up for those busts.
 
Not a fit IMO, almost regardless of contract.
 
Stitch01 said:
That's my main issue.  On the field for 15 plays a game on the cheap as an upgrade on Brandon Bolden and a little bit of a home run threat, fine, Id do that in Madden all day long.  Johnson will fucking hate that role here.  He wants to be a feature back and carry the ball 25 times a game, a role which doesnt really exist in the Pats offense and certainly shouldnt exist for Johnson. 
 
He shouldnt be playing ahead of Ridley or Vereen because the offense works much better out of 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 3 than 2nd and 11 and 3rd and 8 and, as pointed out, he doesnt have enough boom to make up for those busts.
 
Not a fit IMO, almost regardless of contract.
Johnson IF he can swallow his pride would be a good fit in Dallas for the min   
 

Stitch01

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Like the team fit there, but Murray is the top back. I think he goes somewhere with a clearer path to a starting spot. We shall find out I guess.
 

ivanvamp

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Dogman2 said:
I would have absolutely no reservations about signing Johnson.  None. Excellent injury/fumble protection, history of production and, if the current market for RB is an indicator, cheap. 
 
He is much more of a pass catching threat on 1st and 2nd down than Ridley. Sign me up.
 
Last three seasons:
 
TOT:  48 g, 817 att, 3367 yds, 16 td, 4.1 ypa, 135 rec, 995 yds, 4 td, 11 fum
 
AVG:  16 g, 272 att, 1122 yds, 5 td, 4.1 ypa, 45 rec, 332 yds, 1 td, 4 fum
 
Not bad.  Not great.  Not worth the money he'll likely command.  But if he wants to come here cheap, I'd be ok with that.  
 

Reverend

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If he's as boom and bust as Soxy Brown says, I think he's not a Belichick type. I get the real sense that Belichick often goes with a kind of minimax approach where he'd rather have a more limited sure thing than a high risk-high yield kind of thing. This is why FO stats, while not the end all be all, are useful in connection with aggregate stats--the classic case is how FO's stats love Brady on the ground because while he's not good for a lot of yards, he excels at getting the vital conversion in the QB sneak.
 

Ed Hillel

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I don't think Mike Williams is worth any pick, given the 6 million they'll owe him if they want to keep him, but it does make them better. He's a pretty good young receiver.
 

soxfan121

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Isn't he pretty good when not recovering from a stab wound to the leg?
 

RedOctober3829

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Ed Hillel said:
I don't think Mike Williams is worth any pick, given the 6 million they'll owe him if they want to keep him, but it does make them better. He's a pretty good young receiver.
The funny part is that he'll be playing for the coach, Doug Marrone, who threw him off the team while at Syracuse.
 

Ed Hillel

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It reminds me a bit of Parcells/Glenn, though Parcells never actually kicked him off the team. They re-united, rather successfully, in Dallas down the road.
 

Tyrone Biggums

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Chris Johnson screams traditional Jets signing. Past their prime running back that can't find holes. Yep sign them up!
 
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