2013 49ers: Driven to drink
- Thread starter candylandriots
- Start date
JCizzle said:
They did need to play catch-up a bit though.
The other thing that is just killing me with this team right now is how bad they are at tackling. It used to be that any time a ball carrier made contact with a 49er player, he would be on the ground right after. That's definitely no longer the case.
Defensive game plan is man-to-man, with Boldin covered like a glove and the other putzes can't get open for Kaepernick. The O-line looks bad, but I wonder how much of that is on the quality of the 49ers receivers.
jkempa said:
They were down by one score for their first three second half possessions and called 10 passes and 5 runs on those possessions, despite the run game being generally much more successful most of the day.
coremiller said:
Agreed, though I just broke that down to SSS more than anything else. When you looked at the totality of the 2nd half, they had more need to pass.
I'm not trying to give the coaching staff a pass here. They deserve plenty of blame too.
Looking at this closer:
1st drive of 2nd half: run for 7; run for 5; pass for 6; run for 0 (bringing up 3rd and 4); Kaep scramble for 1. Verdict: good mix, can't complain about not running it more
2nd drive of 2nd half: incomplete pass; 8 yard pass; 10 yard pass; 11 yard pass; 5 yard Kaep loss; 2 yard run; 9 yard pass; punt. Verdict: pass was working until the 5 yard loss, then they had to throw to come back from 2nd and 15
3rd drive of 2nd half: incomplete pass; 4 yard pass; sack. Verdict: didn't even try to run it here.
So overall, they didn't run a lot to start the half, but it was really only egregious on their last drive.
1st drive of 2nd half: run for 7; run for 5; pass for 6; run for 0 (bringing up 3rd and 4); Kaep scramble for 1. Verdict: good mix, can't complain about not running it more
2nd drive of 2nd half: incomplete pass; 8 yard pass; 10 yard pass; 11 yard pass; 5 yard Kaep loss; 2 yard run; 9 yard pass; punt. Verdict: pass was working until the 5 yard loss, then they had to throw to come back from 2nd and 15
3rd drive of 2nd half: incomplete pass; 4 yard pass; sack. Verdict: didn't even try to run it here.
So overall, they didn't run a lot to start the half, but it was really only egregious on their last drive.
I wrote this after the Seattle game and this is basically what I saw in my limited viewing of this game. Its a copycat league and the 49ers will have to come up with a way to beat this kind of defense.Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Overall, I see two problems. Most obviously, their receivers are mediocre, especially with Davis out. But even mediocre NFL receivers can get some level of separation from man coverage given time. The other problem is Kaepernick isn't Drew Brees - his game isn't about fitting footballs into insanely tight windows. He's a really talented player but he's being forced to play to his weaknesses, not his strengths, which are really his arm strength and his running prowess. Last year was a honeymoon because teams either played zone, giving him much easier throws to make, or he had a very talented set of skill players going against man-to-man coverage, often with the defense in base personnel, such that somebody among the Crabtree, Davis, Walker, Manningham/Moss quartet was likely to get a lot of separation and give him a much larger window. I think people were probably too quick to laud Kaepernick last year and are now probably too quick to hate on him after these last few games - it just shows how much QB performance depends on the players around them.
Kaepernick was way off too, throwing the ball into the ground on a few occasions and missing receivers badly. Maybe it was the pressure from the Colts defense, because he certainly had a lot of that, but he looked way off. Hopefully for him and the Niners, a bad day but things are fixable (like line protection).
Maybe it's worth breaking this out into a separate stadium discussion, if it's warranted, but I have to ask -- why is there so much hatred toward Candlestick Park? I've been there four times in the past year (three times for football, once for a concert), and I've loved every last second of my time there. It has to be one of the last places where you actually feel like you're at a professional sporting event, and not another mundane entertainment gala. I've also never experienced what lots of people seem to constantly bitch about -- incredibly long lines, shitty traffic. It's on the water, and it can get cold(ish) at night, but it consistently has nicer weather than probably 95% of the stadiums in the league.
The Niners on the verge of moving to what looks like yet another new age, sterile facility, an *hour* outside of San Francisco. One side of seating will be nothing but a stack of luxury boxes. Season ticket holders are being hit with PSLs (the foursome behind me yesterday, with tickets dating back to Kezar Stadium, is stuck shelling out $4,000/ticket for the rights to buy tickets that are doubling in price next season). I understand if the team thinks they can make a killing on this, but it's going to kill what's an otherwise awesome game day experience, and probably one of the last of the elder stadiums in the league.
Without knowing enough, I'm assuming Jed York wanted money from the city to either renovate or rebuild, never got it, threatened to move outside of the area, got laughed at by the league, and wound up finding a plot of land in suburbia that they could privately finance by screwing the season ticket holder base. Accurate?
The Niners on the verge of moving to what looks like yet another new age, sterile facility, an *hour* outside of San Francisco. One side of seating will be nothing but a stack of luxury boxes. Season ticket holders are being hit with PSLs (the foursome behind me yesterday, with tickets dating back to Kezar Stadium, is stuck shelling out $4,000/ticket for the rights to buy tickets that are doubling in price next season). I understand if the team thinks they can make a killing on this, but it's going to kill what's an otherwise awesome game day experience, and probably one of the last of the elder stadiums in the league.
Without knowing enough, I'm assuming Jed York wanted money from the city to either renovate or rebuild, never got it, threatened to move outside of the area, got laughed at by the league, and wound up finding a plot of land in suburbia that they could privately finance by screwing the season ticket holder base. Accurate?
I guess technically the new stadium is in suburbia, but the peninsula is heavily populated (San Jose's population actually exceeds SF nowadays) and pretty wealthy. The weather's much nicer there, too.PseuFighter said:
But yeah, they're not building the new stadium as a charity. They think they can make a bunch of money off of it.
Pretty much, although they never seriously threatened to leave the Bay Area. And they did get some money from the City, but not nearly enough to make the project viable. The negotiations became quite acrimonious.PseuFighter said:
Also, Candlestick is perfectly fine for football and always has been. The only complaints I've heard related to football is that the stadium is old and could use repairs/renovations, which is true. I've never heard anyone say it was a bad place to watch a game. And the traffic is not that bad if you have local knowledge about where to park and how to get out quickly. I'm legitimately depressed about the new stadium, my dad has been a season ticket holder for 20+ years and this is his last year as he refuses to pay the PSL fee for the new stadium.
OTOH, Candlestick was a legitimately awful baseball stadium and moving downtown was the best thing that ever happened to the Giants. Strangely the weather on Candlestick point is far better in November than July. Anyone who ever sat through one of those freezing cold summer night games the Stick was famous for, with the wind whipping trash and peanut shells around, knows this. I grew up on the Peninsula and it could be 85 and sunny there, and you still had to bring blankets and jackets to go watch the Giants. There's a reason they used to give out medals to anyone who attended an extra inning game. Also, the sight lines are much better for football than baseball (which is strange, since the stadium was originally built for baseball).
Weird - the 49ers put Aldon Smith on the field yesterday after his 2nd drunk driving arrest in a little over a year (not to mention the gun shooting or the stabbing), then have one of the most bizarre press conferences EVER about Aldon Smith while Smith is cleaning out his locker (suspended? who knows?) and you guys are talking about Candlestick Park? And the team drops to 1-2 after a SHIT performance...WTF?
Dammit, someone needs to change the fucking thread title!
Dammit, someone needs to change the fucking thread title!
The 49ers have several problems.
Their defense is failing in several areas where they used to be the toughest: Vs the run and tackling.
They have a shortage of WRs, I mean a big shortage.
They are short on defense (their depth there is "shallow" as usual and with Aldon Smith out and Willis iffy it looks bad).
Finally, how will the coaching staff, which has enjoyed a honeymoon period, respond to all these challenges? Not even Mike Singletary lost back to back games this badly.
Their defense is failing in several areas where they used to be the toughest: Vs the run and tackling.
They have a shortage of WRs, I mean a big shortage.
They are short on defense (their depth there is "shallow" as usual and with Aldon Smith out and Willis iffy it looks bad).
Finally, how will the coaching staff, which has enjoyed a honeymoon period, respond to all these challenges? Not even Mike Singletary lost back to back games this badly.
soxfan121 said:
Is there a way I can do it as the person that started the thread? I can't figure it out.
Niners have had very little change in their defensive lineup since Harbaugh has been coach. 8/11 players have basically started all 3 years - Mcdonald, Smith, Bowman, Willis, Brooks, Rogers, Whitner and Brown.
Throw in 2 years of Goldson and Sopoaga (no longer there) and the last 2 years of Aldon Smith, and there has been little to no turnover. Not to say the continuity is good or bad, but it's pretty rare.
As an older defense, I think they are starting to take a few steps back. Last year they were the 8th oldest defense in the league, and I'd bet they are even higher this year.
Also, the Smith absence is really going to kill them from a pressure standpoint. He was the only player they had who could consistently knock the QB down (with the help of some Justin Smith holds of course).
Throw in 2 years of Goldson and Sopoaga (no longer there) and the last 2 years of Aldon Smith, and there has been little to no turnover. Not to say the continuity is good or bad, but it's pretty rare.
As an older defense, I think they are starting to take a few steps back. Last year they were the 8th oldest defense in the league, and I'd bet they are even higher this year.
Also, the Smith absence is really going to kill them from a pressure standpoint. He was the only player they had who could consistently knock the QB down (with the help of some Justin Smith holds of course).
I don't think defense is really the problem - they've arguably been playing better on defense than they did down the stretch last year. Giving up 28 points to GB on 12 drives is not bad, especially given that GB went 4/4 converting red zone opportunities into TDs. They got a lot of stops in that game. They gave up 27 to Seattle but in significant part because the offense was so awful. The 49er offense only held the ball 23 minutes and turned the ball over five times, including TOs that gave the ball to Seattle on the SF 2, 25, and 29 yard line. Against Indy, again the offense only held the ball 23 minutes and turned the ball over twice, including once at the 8 yard line.
The defense has fallen off quite a bit but whats really been different is the offense going from a supercharged group capable of dropping 30-40 on a consistent basis to utterly pathetic in the last couple games.
The defense has fallen off quite a bit but whats really been different is the offense going from a supercharged group capable of dropping 30-40 on a consistent basis to utterly pathetic in the last couple games.
Morgan's Magic Snowplow said:
Look at enough data and the "supercharged" offense looks like a fluke - they've regressed to where they were pre-Kaepernick. There are several possible reasons - defenses defending the RO better, Kaepernick not being as great as he looked when there was not tape on his foibles, slump by everyone, health of everyone, etc.
The loss of McDonald seems to have hurt them quite a bit defensively, especially with Justin Smith no longer being the single most dominant defensive lineman in the game (JJ Watt has grabbed that with both hands and throttled it). Throw in Willis' injury and with Aldon Smith out for who knows how long...the defense might not be as dominant as it has been.
The Aldon Smith situation - and the lack of outrage about it - surprises me. Harbaugh, Baalke & Jed York made a BAD decision to let him play on Sunday and the non-suspension treatment during a short week and mini-bye...it's all freakin weird and were it happening in another organization, it would be a bigger story*. The 49ers are one of the NFL's "featured" teams, they just played in the SB, they have a storied history, they were expected to be contenders...and very few people in the media or elsewhere are talking about the BAD decision to let a guy found passed out drunk behind the wheel on his way to practice at 7 AM on Friday play ~48 hours later. Smith's behavior was reckless; the 49ers behavior was also reckless. If Smith has a serious problem with drugs or alcohol, there is no way he should have been allowed to play before leaving the team to get in-patient treatment. And Jed York's press comments are downright weird and, IMO, weaselly.
Oh, and Jim Harbaugh is an asshole. Just my opinion. Fuck him and his brother for the shady-as-hell Boldin "trade". Collusion, thy name is Harbaugh.
*With the caveat that it wouldn't be a story at all in Jacksonville; press coverage is always relative.
soxfan121 said:
Reading the bolded, it occurred to me that I have little outrage over it. I wonder if we haven't become numbed to his kind of behavior at this point - especially in the wake of what Aaron Hernandez is accused of having done. If so, that's not a good thing.
edit: not that yours wasn't a nice post, but I didn't need to quote it three times in my post.
dbn said:
And to be clear - I'm not outraged over what Aldon Smith did. Unfortunately, people drive drunk too often and he seems to have a problem with two arrests, the reports of pills, and going to an in-patient recovery program. I wish him luck.
The 49ers organization putting Smith on the field, then cleaning out his locker and giving that absurd press conference is worthy of outrage, IMO.
soxfan121 said:
I'll ignore your comments on Aldon Smith, because I largely agree with them.
I know you hate Harbaugh, but he doesn't do anything that almost any other NFL head coach does. The Boldin trade was definitely a win for the 49ers, but the Ravens needed cap room and the 49ers had picks to spare. The Ravens were ready to release him. At least they got something for him.
Now, on to the offense comment. I think (really, really hope?) that this is the symptoms of losing Crabtree (and now Davis). Besides Boldin, there is not a receiver that can get open. Defenses are all over him after learning that the zone doesn't work. I believe that if Crabtree and Davis were both healthy, this offense would be throwing up points with the best in the league. Crabtree to me, is the most indespensible guy on that team after Kaepernick. Ask me who they could least afford to lose going into the season, my list would be Kaepernick, Crabtree, Justin Smith, Vernon Davis, Navorro Bowman, Patrick Willis, Aldon Smith. Well, half of those guys haven't gotten much time yet this year, and it's showing in the results. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts we'd all have a merry Christmas too.
Of course the league is defending the RO better and learning Kaepernick's tendencies. We'll see if the coaching staff and the QB can make the necessary adjustments. I'm disappointed, but not pushing the panic button quite yet. I think Harbaugh and his staff have earned some rope.
jkempa said:
First, great new thread title.
Second, the Ravens traded him out of conference. That the brothers were involved is nice for my irrational hatred of them both. And almost all head coaches can be painted as authoritarian assholes.
Third, lots of rope. But I'm not as in love with Kaepernick as some and think the possibility exists that he's actually not very good at all. A flash in the pan. Just being positive, ya know?
The Niners were missing three of their top four receiving options (Crabtree, Manningham and Vernon Davis) against the Colts, three of their best defensive players were playing with injuries and the offensive line hasn't gelled yet. (I think offensive lines across the whole league look weak due to the less amount of practice time in pads after the new CBA. The Pats line also seems to be playing itself into form in my eyes.) I'm not ready to bury them yet.
Don't forget that Kaep also lost Delaine Walker as well to FA.
Injuries are going to be another factor for tonight's game: Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Asomugha, Kyle Williams and Anthony Davis are all questionable for tonight. Word is that Willis and Asomugha are out with Davis being a game-time decision. Also, I forgot that Ian Williams (starting DT) was placed on IR after breaking his ankle against the Seahawks.
Looking back at last year's 49er team, they were fortunate not to have any significant injuries -- and the one they did have (Alex Smith's concussion) led to the nice run they had with Kaep. This season (actually starting in the offseason with Crabtree) has been very different.
Here's an interesting article on Kaep's indecisiveness with some film breakdown.
Injuries are going to be another factor for tonight's game: Vernon Davis, Patrick Willis, Asomugha, Kyle Williams and Anthony Davis are all questionable for tonight. Word is that Willis and Asomugha are out with Davis being a game-time decision. Also, I forgot that Ian Williams (starting DT) was placed on IR after breaking his ankle against the Seahawks.
Looking back at last year's 49er team, they were fortunate not to have any significant injuries -- and the one they did have (Alex Smith's concussion) led to the nice run they had with Kaep. This season (actually starting in the offseason with Crabtree) has been very different.
Here's an interesting article on Kaep's indecisiveness with some film breakdown.
Yes, that same one. But, as usual, you missed the (Kanga's) point. His point is that this season is very different for a number of reasons. Injuries, Kaep's indecisiveness and FA loss make this team very different. So, while Walker may have been a 5th option last season, he certainly would not be lower than the 1st TE option, right now, based on his knowledge of the SF offensive scheme. That doesn't mean SF would be 3-0 but, similar to NE, we are seeing what a lack of familiar options are doing to that offense.
Yup. All I was saying was that Kaep's top 4 targets from last year haven't been around this year -- that perhaps part of the reason for Kaep's sucktitude is the lack of chemistry he has with the other receivers. That's all.
Edit: What Dogman said.
Edit: What Dogman said.
He was more productive after Kaepernick took over, with 14 catches on 22 targets for 250 yards from game 10 on. And his replacement, (former Rice Owl) Vance McDonald, has just 3 catches in 3 games (on 7 targets).soxfan121 said:
Ultimately, you're right that Walker's loss shouldn't be a big deal. But along with all the other turnover, the receiving corps is really depleted. The top 5 49ers in catches from game 10 on last year (when Kaepernick took over): Michael Crabtree - 41 (on PUP), Delanie Walker - 14 (in Tennessee), Randy Moss - 13 (on Fox), Mario Manningham - 13 (PUP), Vernon Davis - 12 (currently hurt). Basically, the 49ers have the same problem the Patriots have, and like the Patriots, their passing game is understandably struggling.
EDIT: yeah, what Dogman2 and Kanga said.
kanga12 said:
Fair, although if that's the case I wonder how awful Green Bay's defense is, given what Boldin & Kaepernick were able to do in Week 1.
And while SN also has a fair point, Boldin is A) better than anyone active on the Patriots roster all season and B) still the best option in the SF passing attack.
Walker is SF's version of Michael Hoomanawanui - a better blocker and receiver but a similar player, right down to the "experience in the system". I think that expecting a swiss army knife/blocking TE like Walker to have made any difference for Kaepernick the last two weeks is yet another potential reason for the 49ers offensive performance, but not a significant one and certainly not the most likely one. I listed the most likely reasons in an earlier post and think it's a combination of all of them with the biggest possibility being that the 49ers offense was never as good as it looked Week 1 this season or after Kaepernick took over last year, but instead got that bump from opposing defenses not having tape on Kaepernick and/or the effectiveness of the RO offensive concept.
Boldin's still a decent player (at 33, I'm not sure he's better than Amendola), but it's his first year in the system. He's also got pretty clear strengths and weaknesses - he's great at getting open against zone coverage, but he's super slow and doesn't have the athleticism to get off against press coverage anymore. Jaws broke it down this week:soxfan121 said:
In week 1, the Packers played more zone because they were terrified of Kaepernick beating them with his legs like in the NFCCG. Seattle pressed SF and totally shut them down. The Colts did likewise, and probably every team will until the 49ers adjust.
soxfan121 said:
Walker is a much better athlete than Hoomanawanui, a college WR who ran a 4.5 40. Uh Oh probably has better hands.
The extent to which the 49ers relied on the read option last year is overblown. How much did they run it last year when they played the Pats? Maybe once or twice? Kaepernick just carved up the Pats with his arm, because he had receivers who could get open and the Pats couldn't get any pressure on him.
kanga12 said:
Yeah, in that empty stadium last night, I was really worried after hearing that.
It was a pretty shaky first quarter, but things went much better from there.
10 days off will do this team a lot of good I think. Houston at home and then the schedule softens up a lot (home vs. Arizona, at Tennessee, London vs. Jacksonville, home vs. Carolina). Hopefully at that point Smith is getting back, and maybe Manningham too, and an eye for Crabtree a couple of weeks after that if we're lucky.
I was a tiny bit encouraged by Baldwin too, he made a really nice snatch on a crossing route and another that went for a first down. I'm not expecting him to ever live up to his 1st round status, but if he can be a serviceable player in the #2 WR role for a few weeks I'd be ecstatic. Kyle and Patton have been totally invisible.
Yeah, Greg Roman mentioned that he liked what he saw in Baldwin last game and that Baldwin would get some more opportunities. The 49ers need all the receiving help they can get.
The 49ers have the 3rd highest number of three-and-outs on offense and they will be facing a Texans defense that causes the highest percentage of three-and-outs.
The 49ers have the 3rd highest number of three-and-outs on offense and they will be facing a Texans defense that causes the highest percentage of three-and-outs.
coremiller said:
Late but if I could offer my $.02 as a City native.
They managed to pass a partial stadium financing resolution in 1996, where they would get $100 million from the City for the new stadium. This only just passed even though the team was popular due to SF's traditional opposition to financing stadiums.
Then Eddie D went down for bribing the governor of Louisiana to get a casino permit and the NFL forced him to divest his ownership of the team and pass it to his sister Denise.
I think the 49ers are still in SF in a new stadium if Eddie is still the owner: Eddie loved SF and would have wanted to preserve the brand.
When the Yorks took over the team, they had a pitched battle with Gavin Newsom (your acrimonious negotiations). Newsom had (has) delusions of grandeur and wanted SF to host the Olympics and tried to strong arm the 49ers into building the Olympic Stadium at Candlestick. They said no. Newsom basically washed his hands from the deal and by some accounts, wouldn't even return the Yorks' calls (Newsom claims the exact opposite - that John York wouldn't return his).
By this point Santa Clara came to the team with a, frankly, suicidal financial deal that's probably going to see a lot of potholes and dog-eared library books in Santa Clara in years to come. But it's a great deal for the Niners.
Plus the tech boom in the South Bay had heated up again and the 49ers have always been more of a regional team than the Giants - the team claims most of their season ticket holders come from San Mateo and Santa Clara counties and I think that's true. It always feels like 101 south is jammed after a game.
Lastly, I agree that the Stick is a great football venue, especially nowadays with the huge amount of history. It was just the worst as a baseball park. I don't think there's ever been a stadium that had more foul territory between your seat and the baselines. Even Oakland's configuration tucked in towards the plate.
Look how goddamn far you are from the field, and this was probably taken from the first row of the upper deck behind the dugouts.
Forget the freezing cold (which core is not exaggerating). Forget the fact it somehow managed to look like a football stadium ten minutes after they finished expanding it in 1971, rather than the baseball stadium it originally was. The place just had zero, no, good seats for baseball. Its only positive was that the trendy folks wouldn't go near the place, so it was a real hardcore fan's kind of place.
yep....some of my miserable hours watching baseball were spent in that shithole...and I loved it. (actually saw my first game at Candlestick, loved it ever since -- but it's a masochistic thing).
now i regret never seeing the 9ers there, though.
now i regret never seeing the 9ers there, though.
Donte Whitner is legally changing his name to "Donte Hitner".
Sounds like a Monty Python joke.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23966266/donte-whitner-legally-changing-name-to-donte-hitner
Sounds like a Monty Python joke.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/23966266/donte-whitner-legally-changing-name-to-donte-hitner
If you look quickly, could be Hitler. Maybe his hits have affected his brain more than his hittees.Mugsys Jock said:
Good (great!) news on the Crabtree front
I think that Crabtree is the most indispensable guy that they're missing by far. Having him back in the offense would open things up in a way that I think makes the SF O probably the best in the league. Manningham should also be back soon. Having to defend Crabtree, Boldin, Manningham, Davis, Gore and Kaepernick is not going to be an easy job for any defense.
I think that Crabtree is the most indispensable guy that they're missing by far. Having him back in the offense would open things up in a way that I think makes the SF O probably the best in the league. Manningham should also be back soon. Having to defend Crabtree, Boldin, Manningham, Davis, Gore and Kaepernick is not going to be an easy job for any defense.
Other good news: Ray McDonald's MRI was negative. The 49ers can't lose anymore players in the front seven -- they're already without Aldon Smith (rehab), NT Ian Williams (IR), and have missed Patrick Willis for several games. The fact that they're 3-2 with all these injuries and Kaepernick playing like a rookie bodes well. This team feels like a work in progress.
They have the Cardinals this weekend at home, followed by road games at Tennessee and Jacksonville -- means (crossing fingers) they could be 5-3 or even 6-2 at the halfway mark.
They have the Cardinals this weekend at home, followed by road games at Tennessee and Jacksonville -- means (crossing fingers) they could be 5-3 or even 6-2 at the halfway mark.
All good news. Does anyone think Manningham will have any impact at all?
I'm still stuck on the 6-15, 113 yard performance last weekend. I didn't get to see the game but I had to look twice.
I'm still stuck on the 6-15, 113 yard performance last weekend. I didn't get to see the game but I had to look twice.
Manningham has to be better than Williams or whomever else they are putting out there. If nothing else, he should pull some of the coverage off of Boldin.24JoshuaPoint said:
6-13 is bad, but it really wasn't all that necessary to pass. They were running well and the defense was great.